homemade bandsaw mill, help

[gww]

Josh
If you ever want to really beef up your mill and get more tension, Here is what one member did (pictures of his fix at the end of the thread).  It might solve more problims then you might think but would probly take even more power from your undersized motor.  It is worth considering for strait cutting though.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,88250.60.html
Good luck
gww

[Kbeitz]

You said you'r cutting really slow. You want to cut as fast as you
can. Running slow lets you'r band rub the wood instead of cutting.
This dulls the blade and makes heat. The heat will expand you'r
blade so that it's not as tight anymore. A rubbing blade tooth dulls
very quickly. It needs to be taking a bite of wood.

[Joe Hillmann]

Can you try cutting something other than pine?

Pine and bass wood are the two hardest to cut straight woods if you guide system isn't set up correctly.  Red oak, apple, maple, and ash are all much easier to cut straight than pine.

Also I have had rubber tires take the set out of my blades when the blade was riding too far back.

As of right now do you have any type of blade guide system on your mill?

[mazdathumps]

Joe, I have no guides currently due to the rebuild a few pages back... I'm just trying to get a somewhat close cut right now... I don't expect perfection without the guides, but I don't expect the blade to wander, probably in total up and down, an inch different... I have some oak and a small piece of cherry, but they are pretty hard woods, harder than my pine...

Kbeitz, I can play around with this and see where it takes me... I seem to get a better cut at a lower RPM/lower blade speed without the guides... Not sure how or why that works out, but it seems to...

GWW, I would say overall, I'm at a better place now than before with the drive wheel swap... I'm happy with that, and it makes much more sense (something I should have build right to begin with, but thought I knew better)... Original guides were crap to begin with, thus the first thing that got pulled off the mill... They were not solid and weren't ok by any means... They won't ever go back on the mill lol... I will build the new brackets for the new guides once I get them and they will be solid... I will just have to wait until I get those to see how they work... Anything (or nothing in this case) will be better than what I had before...

I work for my local electric company in North Central Florida and we had some bad weather come through last night with lots of lightning, wind, and some tornadoes so I think with work being so busy, it will probably be next week before I touch my sawmill... Just bare with me, this week is going to be busy for us...

[gww]

Josh
If you are not going to work on the mill you should look at the link to georgia88 that I posted.  It was an ideal that a differrent builder had and if you find you have too much flex with the small shaft, something like this would fix you up.  I wanted to do it to my mill but it was built in such a way that I am getting by so for with the little bit of beefing up that I did.  If you get your guides but find in the end you still need a little more tension or if you see it putting a little too much pressure on your shaft (Which might or might not be fixed with a bigger shaft)  this is one more way to skin the cat so to say and is probly the strongest way.

Just more to think about while you are fine tuning.
Good luck
gww

[Joe Hillmann]

Joe, I have no guides currently due to the rebuild a few pages back... I'm just trying to get a somewhat close cut right now... I don't expect perfection without the guides, but I don't expect the blade to wander, probably in total up and down, an inch different... I have some oak and a small piece of cherry, but they are pretty hard woods, harder than my pine...

Kbeitz, I can play around with this and see where it takes me... I seem to get a better cut at a lower RPM/lower blade speed without the guides... Not sure how or why that works out, but it seems to...

GWW, I would say overall, I'm at a better place now than before with the drive wheel swap... I'm happy with that, and it makes much more sense (something I should have build right to begin with, but thought I knew better)... Original guides were crap to begin with, thus the first thing that got pulled off the mill... They were not solid and weren't ok by any means... They won't ever go back on the mill lol... I will build the new brackets for the new guides once I get them and they will be solid... I will just have to wait until I get those to see how they work... Anything (or nothing in this case) will be better than what I had before...

I work for my local electric company in North Central Florida and we had some bad weather come through last night with lots of lightning, wind, and some tornadoes so I think with work being so busy, it will probably be next week before I touch my sawmill... Just bare with me, this week is going to be busy for us...

With no guides at all I am surprised it will cut at all.  Also hardness of the wood isn't the problem.  The three woods that are hardest to cut straight are pine, popple and basswood(they are also the softest woods around here)  Oak, maple and ash are much harder but they cut straighter.

Also Since you have no blade guides I would assume when you are cutting the blade move back on your wheels?  If so it is probably taking the set out of the blade.  I wouldn't try and cut anymore until you have a set of guides on the mill,  even if you put your homemade ones back on until you can get a proper set.

[Kbeitz]

I would also stick spruce in there as one of the hardest ones to cut.

[mazdathumps]

wow. i'm once again boggled by softer wood being harder to cut than hard wood... I can't wrap my head around it, but I'm new and ya'll have been around this stuff, so I'll swap out the log and try again... I also may do like Joe says and just wait for the blade guides... And yes, the blade pushes back a little on the wheels, enough for the teeth to be just forward from the center of the wheel (possibly changing the set)...

GWW, I will have to look at that build at home instead of work, they block everything... I'm surprised I can get on this forum

[Kbeitz]

I think what make it harder to saw is the change from soft wood
to extra hard knots and the pitch in softer woods gum up the blades.

[gww]

Joe
I got my mill cutting pretty good before I put guides on it.  I never noticed the blade ever change tracking while doing so.  I have also backed up with the blade still moving in the cut and never had it change tracking on the tire though I have heard some using pullies for the blade to ride on have had the blade come off when moving backwards.

I think with a sharp blade that the ideal is for the blade not to ride on the roller guide back ridge and if it does this is one of the reasons for blades braking.  I look at my guide and one of them does have a lip wore on it and so I know mine hits it at some times but reading the cooks website, I don't believe it is supposed to except in extreem circumstances.

I never move my guide in for narrow cuts and pretty much leave them as they are no matter how narrow the cut.  I could probly get a little better cut if I did and having guides did make my cutting a bit more consistant but make not mistake.  It should cut with out guides.  However, if there is a small bit of unlevelness in your mill the guides should give you a decent way to adjust it out, the guide will not preform miracles if your mill is too far out because what happens is the blade ends up wanting to walk off the front of the guide or stays tight against the back ridge. 

I have had my mill flex when running causing the blade to want to run off the tire.  Like it will ride well untill I throttle the engine up to full speed.  I run my tension right up to the edge of the point my mill will do this.  I think josh's mill may have some of this in it and his tension could be changing during the cut due to flexing of the shaft that the tires are on.  Guides might eliminate this to where it can be lived with.  If not then he will need to bring his attachment points out closer to the tires or put a bar in front of the tires or do like the picture that kbeitz once posted of another wheel putting pressure from the inside of the wheel that the blade is on.

I wish my mill was a little stronger as far as flex goes and then I could try my tension up to the blade crunching the tires.  I wish I had better drive belt alighment and adjustment so that I could keep my drive belt from slipping.  In the end I get by just barily good enough not to have to adress these issues but I do wonder how much it cuts down my production and how much more I might be able to coax out of a dull blade.

Anybody who looks at my mill knows I am not an expert at this stuff.  I have had enough problims though to be able to see the cause and effect of certain parts.

I would have rather had a super solid mill and be dumber then I am from building a rickity one.

I don't claim that I know anything for sure but these are things that I think I have noticed.
Cheers
gww

[gww]

Josh

GWW, I will have to look at that build at home instead of work, they block everything... I'm surprised I can get on this forum

That build is on this forum.
Cheers
gww

[mazdathumps]

That build is on this forum.
Cheers
gww

GWW, it blocks the pictures... I'll have to see them at home...

And I'm ignorant for the most part about this, but I feel the blade should still cut also, just can't expect perfect cuts... But like I said, I'm learning this stuff...

[Joe Hillmann]

I feel the blade should still cut also, just can't expect perfect cuts... But like I said, I'm learning this stuff...

Just to give you an example.   My mill can cut with no blade guides but the blade wonders up and down and often the cut has a side to side hump in it.  I often have to take my guides off when starting on a log that is too large otherwise.  When cutting without the guides I cut extremely slowly so I don't push the blade off the back of the of the wheels.

Just before I rebuilt my mill and I had my second set of crappy blade guides I had a log on the mill that even with a brand new(not resharpened but brand new)blade the mill physically could not cut.  I would get several feet into the log and the blade would dive like crazy until the engine would bog down and I would stop the cut.  It dove over an inch.

After I rebuilt the mill(I didn't touch anything with the alignment of the tires)I was able to put that exact same log on with a blade that had already cut several logs and I was able to cut it and nowhere did the blade wonder more than 1/16 of an inch.  To get it to cut that well I had to pull the blade guide in so they were nearly touching the cant and use a lot of diesel.

I am not saying that the cook's blade guides were what caused the difference,   Any blade guide system that keeps the blade rigidly in place and can be pulled in close to the cant would have helped,  it's just that the blade guide system that I happened to have that was rigid, adjustable and able to be moved was the cooks system.  Either of my other two blade guide systems would have worked if I had made them stiffer and kept up on maintaining and adjusting them.

[mazdathumps]

Joe. My cuts do the exact same thing. They dive.  Is it the guides that fixed that issue for you?

[gww]

Joe
I will say one thing.  Once you put down pressure with the guides.  The guide needs to be solid.  I had a weld break on one of my arms that hold the guide and it was held on by weld slag and not really lose but wobbled just a little bit and it screwed my cut up pretty good.  Once I had a bearing disinagrate and my blade just took off in a virtical direction untill it got so tight it couldn't go more with out breaking the blade. Two other times I had nuts come lose in my guide assembly.  Mine will cut with out guides but if I have the guides on and with down pressure they have to be right and solid.

I am not dissagreeing that guides are really good, just saying it should cut pretty good with out them.  I also get a log every so often that nothing helps on, period.  A sharp blade really helps with every thing also.  I have had one or two blades that did not do as good as the rest of them right out of the box.  I will say this.  My blades almost always cut best and longest right out of the box and then slowly degrade and also dull faster inbetween every sharpining I do, not that I use good equiptment for sharpining.

I do agree that moving the guide in and out to the width you are cutting makes a better board.  I usually have mine set at about 18/19 inches apart and don't move them unless I get a big log for a cut or two because it is easier to not move them and my cut isw good enough for my uses.  I have never seen any mill but mine ever cut a board and so I might be doing really good or really bad but I have no point of referance to really tell.  Some day if I get the chance I am going to pay attention to somebody elses mill but so far I haven't ever been near one cutting and have only seen one timberking in person.
Cheers
gww

Ps I have had the hump in the middle of the board you talk about and I get more tension then I used to and don't notice it anymore.  I am sure that good guides also help.  I also say the guide system leggman made for me is what made my mill really usable.

[gww]

Josh
If they are only diving and not wondering around.  That would most likely be the tires taking out the set or a bad alighment.
Cheers
gww

Ps I can't talk for joe but guides will help alot.  You do need the adjustments that go with them for fine tuning though.

Just a curiosity question.  How long of a blade do you use?  I use 158 inch blade.

[Joe Hillmann]

Joe. My cuts do the exact same thing. They dive.  Is it the guides that fixed that issue for you?

On that particular log yes,  But with the same setup I cut hundreds of other logs that cut with just a bit of blade wondering.  I was told that the log was red pine and from the bark it looked like it but it was very heavy for it's size much harder but boards that came off it were flexible like noodles.  I have never seen another log like it.

With the same guide set up that wouldn't cut that log I could cut any hardwood with blades that were too dull to cut pine anymore and get nice flat cuts out of it.

Since your mill has no guides at all I would suggest either putting your homemade ones back on or wait until you get the cooks guides before driving yourself crazy trying to get it to cut well without guides.

And if you do want to cut without guides throw on a hardwood log(not popple) and see what a difference it makes.

[Joe Hillmann]

Joe
I will say one thing.  Once you put down pressure with the guides.  The guide needs to be solid. 
gww

I agree with that.  My first two guide setups weren't stiff enough to do there job all the time.  The new set up I have uses all thick wall tubing and is very solid.  If I push hard enough on one of the guides to move it the entire frame of the carriage ends up flexing before the blade guide arm does.  I had originally planned to put lots of bracing on the guide arms but once I saw that they were stiffer than the rest of the mill I figured it wouldn't do any good without also putting lots of bracing on the carriage frame as well.

[gww]

Joe
I am betting since your rebuild that you are walking in tall cotton now.  It is nice when things work out in a way that all you end up doing is using you stuff rather then always thinking of what you have to do to make it better.
Cheers
gww
Ps Off topic, are your bees still alive?  My three mediocor hives are still flying as of 2 days ago.

[Ox]

Stop trying to get good cuts without any guides!  It's not going to happen with our little blades.  This is only for the big boys with blades like 2 feet wide!  Heck, I'd be happy if I only had an inch variable in my cuts without using guides!  I stand by what I said a while ago - get some good guides on there and then start fine tuning.  Doing what you're doing isn't telling you anything besides the fact that you have your alignment good and that the basic principal of your mill is good.  These are two big things, so well done.  But we're wasting our time walking you through anything at this point until your new guides are on there.  There's no control of your blade, therefore no control of your cuts.  Period. 

hey gww (from one of your earlier posts)

[Joe Hillmann]

Joe
I am betting since your rebuild that you are walking in tall cotton now.  It is nice when things work out in a way that all you end up doing is using you stuff rather then always thinking of what you have to do to make it better.
Cheers
gww
Ps Off topic, are your bees still alive?  My three mediocor hives are still flying as of 2 days ago.

I don't think any of them are alive.  I had planned to treat them for mites once they were brood less in the fall but they had so many mites I HAD to treat them.  I gave them 3 treatments, one a week until I got the mite numbers down.  We had a warm fall and it looked like all the hives were still alive and active as of the first week of November.  I checked on them the last week of November and all but two of the hives were empty with no dead bees left in or around the hives.  One was still going strong and a second one was still there but not looking good.

I moved them both home and wrapped them for the winter and since December I haven't seen any activity at all so I hope the stronger hive is still going but I am waiting for a warm day to check.  By the end of the month we should be getting a few days where we get above freezing so I will be able to peek in and give them sugar if needed.

I am not sure if it was the huge amount of mites that caused the bees to die/leave or if giving them three treatments in a row killed them.  It was kind of a danged if I do, danged if I don't situation.  I figured treating them gave them a better chance than not. 

[gww]

Ox

These are two big things, so well done.  But we're wasting our time walking you through anything at this point until your new guides are on there.  There's no control of your blade, therefore no control of your cuts.  Period. 

hey gww (from one of your earlier posts)

Hey Ox
Too your post, I would say guides will help no matter what.  I do think his mill might have some of the same problim mine does with the flex issue and looking for ways to beef that up might give a little more room for not haveing a fight for the rest of the time he is using it.
And he does need to keep his eyes open for abigger motor.
Joe
Sorry about your bees.  I am first year and so intend to make the same mistake as most first year bee keepers make.  I am doing no mite counts or treating in any way.  I did put 15 lbs sugar blocks on my hives and two of my hive were not the recomended winter size for my area but so far so good.  Saying that doesn't mean that next year I won't be one of the guys posting I had all six of my hives die.  I am too new to it to know what the cause and effect of your actions to your hives were or which might be the right chioce.  My view is you make your decision based on what you think you know at the time and then just live with the out come with out worring about it.  If you learn more later that convinces you to adjust then you make a decision based off of that.  I am giong to let the bees go untreated untill I get a dead out or two and then I am going to autopsy the hive and if I see punctured caps and mite frass, I am going to adjust my management style based on that.  I always try to learn everyting the hard way.

I hope the two you have at home make it and give you a good start in spring.
Wishing you the best.
gww

[mazdathumps]

Josh
If they are only diving and not wondering around.  That would most likely be the tires taking out the set or a bad alighment.
Cheers
gww

Ps I can't talk for joe but guides will help alot.  You do need the adjustments that go with them for fine tuning though.

Just a curiosity question.  How long of a blade do you use?  I use 158 inch blade.

I will be looking into the guides soon to buy some... I use a 132" woodmizer blade I think...

[mazdathumps]

Well, I took the financial plunge and ordered my Cook's blade guide systems (2 of them)... $270 later... Once I get them, I'll weld them up and see how she cuts... Hopefully these baby's do the trick...

[Kbeitz]

Why so much... They only list for $60.00 each ?