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My log splitter project - Input needed

Started by bmcdowell40, March 03, 2014, 04:31:43 PM

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bmcdowell40

So I wanted to build/buy a horizontal only splitter so I could put a table grate on it and make my splitting operation more efficient.  Currently, I have a huskee 22 ton that works great, however, it is a horizonta/vertical model. 

Anyway, I bought a project splitter from a guy for $100.  Everything is there, it needs tires and some remodeling on the plumbing/tank and it likely needs a pump which is where I need some input.

It has an older 10 HP briggs engine which looks to be in good shape.  Would this be enough to turn a 22 GPM pump?  Or should I go with a 16 gpm.  I'm assuming this engine will run or can be made to run reliably. 

It has part of the I-Beam plated off on each side and used as the oil tank.  I haven't done any measuring or calcs but my eyes tell me its too small.  How large of a tank should I go with and are there any cheap suggestions as to how to build one? 

It sits real low to the ground so I'm planning on raising the entire machine up to working height via a couple short pieces of I beam.  I'm also planning a hydraulic log lift, outfeed table and a slip over 4 way wedge.  The main goal for now is to make it operational.

thecfarm

Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

currantvt

I'm pretty sure that the rule of thumb is to have a tank of the same volume as the pump gpm - so a 16gpm pump needs a 16gal tank. Cant help with cheap tanks , maybe truck diesel tank would  work.

21incher

Quote from: currantvt on March 03, 2014, 05:20:40 PM
I'm pretty sure that the rule of thumb is to have a tank of the same volume as the pump gpm - so a 16gpm pump needs a 16gal tank. Cant help with cheap tanks , maybe truck diesel tank would  work.
I used a used 13 gallon compressor for mine and welded in a black iron fitting for the strainer no problem and used a surplus center filler with a gasket on a flat plate I welded on the top. Most splitters use a 2 stage pump and only have a short period under max pressure so the tank can be a little smaller then the low pressure GPM. I have pics of the splitter I built in my library. It is a standup model with a log loader. It is very comfortable to use and splits quick with the 2 stage wedge I designed.
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

dave_dj1

On my splitter I used a 22 gpm pump and an 11hp Predator motor, so far I love it. Everyone was trying to talk me into going with a 16 gpm pump but I wanted speed.
I have a 17 gal tank and have yet to see temps above 100-120 degrees. I don't generally split more than a cord at a time though.
good luck and keep us posted,
dave

SPD748

I think 10hp would pull the pump however you may have to play with the unloading pressure on the pump and the relief pressure on the valve a little. Originally, my splitter ran a 12 hp single cyl engine on a 22 gpm pump. That setup struggled a little with the unloader set to 900 psi so I installed a 16 hp twin that hasn't had any problems. As stated above, the hydraulic tank should be at least pump size. Mine holds 25 gallons and I've had no heat problems. Good luck with your build!

-lee
Frick 0 Handset - A continuing project dedicated to my Dad.

410 Deere, 240 Massey... I really need a rough terrain forklift :)

Sawing Since 1-19-2013 @ 3:30 pm
Serving Since 2002
"Some police officers give tickets, some gave all."

repmma

as far as a cheap tank, my father has many times used old propane tanks.  Obviously, as many people are going to jump on this, it has to be EMPTY, remove valve, flush it etc.  Our plow truck had a 100lb'er for a gas tank and a 20 lb'er for the plow hydraulics...
Thomas 8020, Timberjack 225C, Ford 5030 with Norse 450 winch, stihl saws and 142 acres to manage.

Oliver1655

You didn't say what size the bore of you cylinder is.  If it is 4" a 16 gpm 2 stage pump will give you an 8.8 sec cycle time with a 24" stroke.  This is what I have on mine & am happy with it.  (For comparison, box store splitters have cycle times of 14-16 sec.)

If you have a larger bore then a 22 gpm pump would be better.  Keep in mind you will need to use 3/4" hoses if you go larger than 16 gpm.

In the past the rule was 1 gal of reservoir capacity per gpm of the pump.  Example 16 gpm pump = 16 gallon reservoir with around 13 gallons of hydraulic fluid.  (Notice you don't fill the reservoir.  This is to allow for differences in fluid capacity in the cylinder from when the ram is retracted vs extended & the expansion/contraction of the oil volume as it heats/cools & flows through the circuit.  It also helps to keep it from being thrown out the breather/vent while moving the splitter around).  Keep in mind, folks were using all kinds of metal containers for reservoirs.  Tubing which was part of the frame, air compressor tanks, propane bottles, pony kegs, ... .  Now we have a lot more information available on reservoir designing which helps to better circulate the oil in them which increases the cooling capacity & so now unless you are working a hot environment the guidelines are more along 2/3 of the gpm if you have a properly designed reservoir with baffles. Example 16 gpm = 11 gallon reservoir with 9 gallons of oil. 

The goal is to keep the oil temperature < 180°F  If you would like to add an oil cooler/radiator, a used one from a combine would be around $100 and would have 3/4" inlets & outlets.  As the price on oil rises, many are finding it cheaper to add an oil cooler than to buy a larger reservoir & the extra oil it take to fill it.

Have the reservoir higher than the pump to eliminate the potential for dry starts.

The filter needs to be on the return cycle, between the last valve & the reservoir.  To make it easier to service/change filter mount it in an easy to reach area higher than the reservoir.  This will help minimize oil loss.  If it will still be lower than the line coming into it, you can install a ball valve before it to cut off the oil flow.  Just don't forget to open it back up after replacing the filter.
John

Stihl S-08s (x2), Stihl S10 (x2), Jonsered CS2139T, Husqvarna 338XPT California, Poulan Microvibe XXV, Poulan WoodShark, Poulan Pro 42cc, McCulloch Mini-Mac 6 (x2), Van Ruder Hydraulic Tractor Chainsaw

blackfoot griz

I agree with Oliver.

If you go the 22 gpm route, not only use 3/4 inch lines but verify the port sizes on the cylinder you use. You won't be able to get 22 gpm through an SAE 8 port.

Got any pictures of your project?

21incher

I found the cycle speed was extremely dependent on wedge design. It took me 3 wedge designs until I was able to come up with a wedge that would allow me to split 90% of the logs without the pump kicking down to the high pressure mode. I wound up with a razor sharp 1" a36 plate to start the split and then a 2nd stage set of wedges that pop the log apart. My pressure gauge rarely goes above 1000 psi while splitting. Also you will find that your cyl, filter hoses and valves will hold about gallon of oil when sizing your reservoir. Also use all the 3/4 hose, fittings, filter and valve you can to avoid restricting the flow plus put a strainer in the tank to keep crud out of the pump.
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

bmcdowell40

Thanks for all the responses and input.

In the interest of being cheap, which I am, I think I'm going to keep the engine I have and just go with the 16 GPM pump, but I need to check a couple things that have been brought up.

I'm not exactly sure of the cylinder size, I never measured it but I know its a 24" stroke and I think its a 4 or 4.5" bore.  The guy I bought it from said the cylinder was from a loader, its painted yellow and looks pretty beefy so I believe it.  I'm going to look closer at it and see if I can find any numbers on it.  As far as the port sizes go, is there some kind of chart with some measurements that I can reference to determine what size they are?

Right now, the oil tank is below the pump/engine and it has the filter on the line from the tank to the pump, so that will be all re-worked with the new tank.  I'm located in PA so I wouldn't consider it a hot environment, if an 11 gallon tank would work, I'll just buy an 11 gallon air tank from Harbor Freight for around $35, weld in some bungs and be done. 

Sorry, I dont have any pictures yet.  I'll be sure to take some once I get it drug in the garage.


21incher

I used a old 13 gal compressor tank that was rated at 175 psi and the metal was less then 14 Gauge thick which made welding the 2 1/2 inch bung for the tank strainer in quite hard for me due to the material thickness of the bung and the domed end of the tank I welded it into was even thinner material. A harbor freight air tank will most likely be much thinner metal and a little harder to weld depending on your experience and equipment. The tank barely gets warm after splitting 6 full cords of wood with 10 gallons of oil in the system. Plus the tank had a compressor mount that made a good reservoir mounting bracket so you might want to look on craigslist for someone giving away a broken compressor for scrap metal. I got all my hydraulic filters. valves, filler cap, and fittings at the Surplus Center because they had the best price I could find and you can find info on fitting types and sizes there also.
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

SPD748

+1 on Surplus Center. I purchased almost all the components I used to build my splitter from those guys.

-lee
Frick 0 Handset - A continuing project dedicated to my Dad.

410 Deere, 240 Massey... I really need a rough terrain forklift :)

Sawing Since 1-19-2013 @ 3:30 pm
Serving Since 2002
"Some police officers give tickets, some gave all."

gspren

   Old beer keg for a tank looks neat, stainless steel you can silver solder fittings on.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

Al_Smith

Now you have conflicting  ideas here .Perhaps that formula of 1 gallon of fluid per one gallon per minute flow might apply to a closed center system but a splitter  is open center .

The only time the system sees any real pressure build up is during the power stroke,a few seconds .The return stroke is little pressure and recirculating the oil is almost no pressure .

My 16 GPM pump is running a 5 inch cylinder on 8 gallon of fluid,it doesn't heat up .The so called 35 ton splitter TSC sells does it on 5 gallon .Are they wrong then and every body else correct .

bmcdowell40

I havent been able to find any numbers on the cylinder but it measures about 4.5" outside, so I believe its a 4" cylinder and the rod measures 2.5".  The ports are different sizes.  It looks like the port on the rod end has been modified, it appears that someone welded a 3/4" coupler onto the cylinder.  The port on the cap end looks to be around 1/2" in diameter.

I did some research on the engine, and its an 11 HP briggs with electric start.  The engine codes indicate is has an alternator so I'm going to look into that.  If it does, I'm going to put some work lights on the thing so I can work at night.

I drug it into my shop the other night and pulled the air cleaner off.  The inside looked clean so I sprayed some carb cleaner in it and gave it a pull.  It fired on the first crank.  I couldn't believe it.  The fuel line is hardened so I'm going to get a new line and filter and put some fresh gas in it and try it, hopefully this weekend.

Cguignard

I recently built one with a 22 gpm pump, we put on a honda 390 gx on it, said to be around 13hp.  We used a tank that has a capacity of 25 gal of oil.

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