"One Stroke Chain"

[Full Chisel]

When I hone out dull chains, I set one side for angle and grinding depth. Then I mike a tooth and set up the other side's cutters grinding depth. This is textbook balanced chain. After I sharpen several chains, I switch wheels and do the rakers. Verified with a flexible rule and feeler gauge. They still need a light touch with the file.

Saw chain needs to be reworked so a grinder can ride across each depth gauge and set its clearance in the same pass as you sharpen each tooth. I think it can be done. If you like the status quo, that's cool. If you wonder about ideas like this or have some ideas, let's talk about it.

I'd like to find someone here with some autocad background who would help draw a visualization.

[beenthere]

I'm going to stick with two strokes per tooth. Works for me after each tank of fuel. That is if I don't get into the dirt which doesn't happen very often. 8)

[T Welsh]

Full Chisel, Set up with a bench grinder is critical. I do the same when I start a chain, I find the most damaged cutter and measure it with a caliper and set the machine to clear the cutter and then grind lightly until the chain is done. Then I check to see if right and left side cutters match in length. I have found a trick that works when I grind down the depth gauges. I take a sharpie and set a gauge on top of the rakers and mark each raker with the sharpie, once all rakers are marked I take the chain to a bench grinder and grind them down until the marks are gone. its faster than doing it on the chain grinder and by doing them by hand. Tim

[nmurph]

If you are not increasing the raker depth as you file the cutter back, you are not maintaining the factory 6° angle and are not maximizing the chain set-up.

[Al_Smith]

In a perfect world each and every cutter tooth on a chain will be the exact same length with all depth gauges the same .

However in the real world they usually vary a little and you won't see that much difference in how it cuts .

[Full Chisel]

If you are not increasing the raker depth as you file the cutter back, you are not maintaining the factory 6° angle and are not maximizing the chain set-up.

I've not filed cutters on saw chain for 20 years. I always use a grinder with depth stop.

In a perfect world each and every cutter tooth on a chain will be the exact same length with all depth gauges the same .
However in the real world they usually vary a little and you won't see that much difference in how it cuts .

In my real world, I use a micrometer; left and right side bits are set the same. If there is some kind of problem, like a damaged tooth, I correct that.

When I hone out dull chains, I set one side for angle and grinding depth. Then I mike a tooth and set up the other side's cutters grinding depth. This is textbook balanced chain. After I sharpen several chains, I switch wheels and do the rakers. Verified with a flexible rule and feeler gauge. They still need a light touch with the file.

Saw chain needs to be reworked so a grinder can ride across each depth gauge and set its clearance in the same pass as you sharpen each tooth. I think it can be done. If you like the status quo, that's cool. If you wonder about ideas like this or have some ideas, let's talk about it.

I'd like to find someone here with some autocad background who would help draw a visualization.

I want to discuss a new chain design.  Round chisel shape with D-G orientation that facilitates simultaneous grinding with the bits.

[Al_Smith]

Well maybe so if a person is a watch maker or a tool and die maker with time on your hands .

You might get a leg up being so precise or not .In the over all scheme of things it probabley doesn't make that much difference but it's a good topic of debate if nothing else . ;)

Please elaborate if you would .Do you store your precision ground super duper sharpened chains in a velvet lined case after you dress them or hang them on a nail like 95 percent of us .

[Buck]

Interesting. FC, I would like to run one of your resharps against mine. I understand what your saying but my only comparison is brand new against my work.

[Full Chisel]

Well maybe so if a person is a watch maker or a tool and die maker with time on your hands .
You might get a leg up being so precise or not .In the over all scheme of things it probabley doesn't make that much difference but it's a good topic of debate if nothing else . ;)
Please elaborate if you would .Do you store your precision ground super duper sharpened chains in a velvet lined case after you dress them or hang them on a nail like 95 percent of us .

If you are living, you have exactly the same amount of time on your hands as everybody else--24 hours each day. What you do from there is based solely on choices; the ones you have made and the ones you make now. Do you also see this fact as a gray area or topic of debate?

I hang sharp chains on plastic coated hooks by driver count with the cutters facing the same way as they are installed on the bar. When you do things right the first time, you end up with more time to do something else. I don't do a lot of things like 95% of people. When you get focused there really isn't a big picture only light at the end of the tunnel. Save the debate for another time.

[Full Chisel]

Interesting. FC, I would like to run one of your resharps against mine. I understand what your saying but my only comparison is brand new against my work.

Ditto. But if I came to Louisiana, I'd probably want to stay.

[Full Chisel]

Let's not get sidetracked here. Oregon has made that system where you can put a stone on the end of the bar with a spring loaded mechanism. Light feed pressure with light throttle sharpens the chain, (and I suppose the rakers.) I saw the chain at a farm store. It has limitations.

I think the cutter/gauge links can be oriented so the gauge clearance can be maintained during grinding. It can be done better, faster than it is done now. Nothing is so good it can't be improved.

[Al_Smith]

  When you get focused there really isn't a big picture only light at the end of the tunnel. Save the debate for another time.

Well now come on Chisel fess up now ,who's debating what .
You start up like the cock of the walk with all this stuff and expect us all to swallow it hook line and sinker and we know better .What are we ,you think a bunch of idiots that have never sharpened a chain or something ?

Okay it's nice you are so praticular with your chains .

Here's how that would go .While you are prepairing a chain to be sharpened with all the cleansing methods the rest of us will have cut our first cord of wood .Filing with our lowly dollar and a quarter file .

By the time you set up your grinder and maybe started on the first chain the rest of us will have cut our second cord .By the time you've finished the second chain we have split and stacked said two cords of wood ,put the saw away and be sitting on our back deck or patio enjoying a beverage .

Now who's ahead of the game  :D 8)

[Full Chisel]

  When you get focused there really isn't a big picture only light at the end of the tunnel. Save the debate for another time.

Well now come on Chisel fess up now ,who's debating what .
You start up like the cock of the walk with all this stuff and expect us all to swallow it hook line and sinker and we know better .What are we ,you think a bunch of idiots that have never sharpened a chain or something ?

Okay it's nice you are so praticular with your chains .

Here's how that would go .While you are prepairing a chain to be sharpened with all the cleansing methods the rest of us will have cut our first cord of wood .Filing with our lowly dollar and a quarter file .

By the time you set up your grinder and maybe started on the first chain the rest of us will have cut our second cord .By the time you've finished the second chain we have split and stacked said two cords of wood ,put the saw away and be sitting on our back deck or patio enjoying a beverage .

Now who's ahead of the game  :D 8)

You are ahead of the game, Al.  Like 4052 posts ahead. This was my first thread here. I won't ever post another. I cut trees for a living.

[Buck]

Interesting. FC, I would like to run one of your resharps against mine. I understand what your saying but my only comparison is brand new against my work.

Ditto. But if I came to Louisiana, I'd probably want to stay.

I'd enjoy the visit

[1270d]

I agree with full chisel here.  He s refering to professional faller/chainsawyer work, not firewooding.  Many people can file an excellent chaiin, but some of us choose to grind for various reasons.
1 much faster to change a loop in the woods vs filing.
2 I can grind a chain with much more precision at home, and faster, than filing. (The precision may not effect cut speed as much as operator fatigue.  A perfect chain is smooth as butter. 
3 difficult to square file, the triangle files dull quickly
4 we like to do it this way :). 

I would like to see a cutter design like you suggest. We use a seperate machine that custom tailors each raker/cutter set

[beenthere]

Well Al, that is just a bit exaggerated, but I do agree with your analysis.  ;D

[lumberjack48]

I fell timber 30 yrs, hand filed 30 yrs, my saws cut like a razor blade. I carried the file in my pocket, when falling for two skidders you have to be on the ball. If i lost the edge on the chain, I'd drop an file, takes about 60 to 90 seconds to put the edge back on.
You can't get much more professional when comes to felling an running saw, this was my life. I have fell one million + trees.
All this precision is fun to play with, but with a professional hand filer you wouldn't see any difference when it comes to speed.

I've always said if a guy uses a grinder he doesn't know how to hand file.
The way it was around here 30 yrs ago if you had to take your chains in to have them sharped you were a green horn or a farmer logger, just the way it was.

[Al_Smith]

Awe geeze Chisel you don't have to get in a huff about it now .

It's a forum ,people have different opinions  on things and they express them which is why it's called a forum .

You can't expect to come up with some controversial  method of doing things and not get a comment .Not everyone sees things the way you do .

Cutting trees for a living has not one thing to do with sharpening a chain .While perhaps many pro loggers who use square ground chain do in fact grind them I'd subject that at least as many use round chisel and file it .On that I'd also submit that I can file a round ground as well as you can grind it .That's not boasting just a plain old statement of facts . ;D---Lighten up now okay ,it's just a forum . ;)

[1270d]

Whew.  Hot button huh.  Lol. Fords are better than chevy s.  ;)

[Full Chisel]

Al_Smith went to the dark side of the moon. I didn't realize this forum had an ignore function. Good software.

LJ48, if you could fall 25 trees on one chain and sharpen one in 90 seconds, by the time you cut one million trees the way you did in your career, you spent 1000 hours on your knees in the woods with a file. In 1000 hours, on my setup I can put up 6000 precise 36" loops of shiny blue rapid super with any custom depth gauge clearance I want. If this is the farmer greenhorns, I'm still doin' it on a machine. (In a lighted climate controlled shop with some Conway Twitty jammin'.)

File vs. Grinder was done beat to death.

Back to business. I've been thinking about this for a long time. You can fabricate the grinding wheel to adapt to the chain we presently have available. I considered a grinder made with tools instead of wheels that would do bits with one tool then its raker with another. This would work good too. It can also be set up with water lasers to do the cutting. No problem, there--it's all programing , fabrication and Micrologistics. As much as I'd love to have a CNC machine to make the world's sharpest chain from dull chain, I'm looking for the like-minded guys out there who want to discuss a new breed of chain. We build it from the ground up. And the product will probably end up having the links "milled" by water laser.

[beenthere]

"water laser" ??
That yet to be invented?
Has a good ring to it, but wondering just what it is.

[Al_Smith]

 :D I'll see your ignore and raise you one . 8)

[Full Chisel]

"water laser" ??
That yet to be invented?
Has a good ring to it, but wondering just what it is.

Google it. I used to calibrate them for Cat.

[tyb525]

C'mon Al, we've been through this before. He wants to do it the way he wants to do it. He didn't ask you if you thought it was right.

As I have said before, who else on this forum is nitpicking and belittling everything you do in your life? You are free to do what you want the way you want to do it. So is he.

It is one thing to express your opinion, but it's another thing to try and force it onto someone else, as if their way is no good compared to yours.


Back to the thread, I am interested in Chisel's idea. I'm all for improving chain sharpening 8)

[tyb525]

"water laser" ??
That yet to be invented?
Has a good ring to it, but wondering just what it is.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=+water+laser