Educating the customer.

[Jim_Rogers]

Some customers need to be educated....

Yesterday, I drove 61 miles to view a job. My sawmill yard is 30 miles north of Boston, MA. I drove 31 miles south of Boston to view this white oak log pile ready for milling:



 

It seems that the customer didn't understand that the sawmill is a trailer that has to park next to a neat log pile that has been prepared for the processing job; even though I emailed him a drawing sheet that shows the ideal setup for milling.
My email information package contains 8 pages of information. Page one is a copy of my opening page of my website. Which clearly shows the WM sawmill.
But I guess some people just don't understand or read everything.
I asked the customer if he had seen the "rate sheet" where all the charges are listed, which is the last page of my information package, as the last customer said she didn't find that right away.
He said he had.
To be compensated for my time to make long drives to distance sites, I have added a fee to cover my time. Some of you may think this is too much to ask of a customer, but I feel it is something I need to get.
My fee, to his site, added up to over $125 to bring the mill to his site and saw his logs.
He said he didn't see that "travel fee" line.

Some customers need to be educated...

I really don't want to travel this far to do a job.
I suggested he try and find a portable sawmill that is closer to him then me. Time will only tell if he takes my advice or not.

When I arrived at his site, there were three workmen standing in the driveway having coffee. There were working on trimming out a newly erected timber frame addition to his house.
When one of them asked me what I was up to, I told them that I was there to view the log pile. He looked over one shoulder and then over the other shoulder and he said he hadn't seen a "log pile". That was not a good sign.

After the customer came out of his house, we walked quite a distance "down back" to the above photographed site. The butt log of this white oak was still attached to the stump. He has estimated something like 900 bdft of wood from this tree, he'd like to have milled into flooring for his new addition.

The quality of these logs were not the best, by far.

I believe I educated him as to the need to have the lumber "kiln dried" before it could be processed by a "millwork" shop into tongue and groove flooring, by email before I arrived.

He has been researching, and has found someplace that maybe able to dry it. And other place where they maybe able to process it, once dry. And he may have an installer who can put it down for him.  But as of yesterday he couldn't even tell me what widths he wanted this flooring to be. I did suggest that the thickness should be 1 1/8" so that the kiln can dry it and then it could be processed into 3/4" t&G flooring.

I suggested he talk with his installer to see what the finish widths should be. And then the millwork shop to see what widths the lumber should be in order to come out with those widths.
I didn't bring my pattern book with me which should show the standard widths for t&G lumber. But I told him that I had one.

He commented at least twice that he had a friend with a tractor and winch that could move the logs from where the laid, after the tree was uprooted, to the driveway. I personally think it will be some time before these logs get moved. On the way back from the walk "down back" we stopped at a nice "grassy spot" near his shed where the thought that maybe we could process his logs there. But there was a stone wall between the "grassy spot" and the driveway, that I told him most likely the sawmill could not "roll over".... And on the other side of the stone wall was a "POD" storage container completely blocking the access.

Some customers need to be educated.....

I wouldn't call this a rant, just a story that I wanted to share.

Jim Rogers

[POSTON WIDEHEAD]

Good read Jim....I did not take it as a rant, I took it as you have educated us on life.  :D

I could not help but laugh when I looked at the "log pile". In my opinion, does he think
you are, a "Magicman"?  ;D

I am stationary so I do not know what you portable guys run into but I'm learning.
I agree....some people need to be educated. 

[AnthonyW]

Based on the shape (curviness, not condition) of the trees, I wonder what shape he expects the boards to be. Or for that fact, what shape is the room he will be putting them in.

If I ever do someone a favor with my mill, remind me to keep asking for a picture of the pile ready to be milled. Upon receipt of said picture with the logs ready to be milled, then I will get out the mill. I got the mill for myself, not to do work for others but I'm sure someday someone will ask for a favor.

[Nomad]

     Jim I wholeheartedly agree with you.  I started a long response and deleted it.  I'm just going to say "Don't get me started..."

[beenthere]

Good story Jim. Thanks for posting your experience here.

[NCDiesel]

Looks like my picture from a customer site:

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,68791.msg1034257.html#msg1034257

I am actively working on my web site now to hopefully cut down on the number of calls from folks who just are not aware of what needs to have happened before they call us.

Thanks for the great story,

[Nomad]

I am actively working on my web site now to hopefully cut down on the number of calls from folks who just are not aware of what needs to have happened before they call us.

Thanks for the great story,

     As far as I can tell it doesn't work.  I think my website is pretty explicit about it, and it doesn't seem to matter.

[Jim_Rogers]

I use this picture to show a neat pile of logs ready to have the sawmill backed up to:



 

And feel free to copy or download and use.

I don't remember if I drew it from seeing a set up like this in one of my WM books on sawing or if I saw it someplace else. But I have used it for many years.

I have added this sentence to the bottom of the caption under this picture:

The sawmill is a trailer that will be pulled by a SUV or pickup truck. We need access to the log pile from the street to easily back in or park the trailer next to your log pile. Logs load the sawmill from the drivers side of the trailer.

Hopefully that will help another customer to understand what a portable sawmill is.

Jim Rogers

PS. thanks for all your comments.

[pnyberg]

I guess I've been lucky.  I've only had to leave a customer's site without milling once that I can recall, and that was only a few miles from home. 

I don't do site visits unless they're pretty close, and even then I'll only do them if I'm specifically asked.  Based on my personal experience, going to every site twice would increase both time and expense, and accomplish little.  Now, one of the services I offer is moving customer's inaccessible logs to the mill with my LogRite Fetching arch, and this definitely allows me to do a lot of jobs that otherwise couldn't be done.

As for finding a portable sawmill based closer to 30 miles south of Boston than you are...   as far as I know there just aren't any, and I really wish there were.  I just hope he doesn't call me.

--Peter

[47sawdust]

Jim,
I think that poor fella needs to go out and get his head bored for brains 'cause there is none in there.Then maybe an education might work.Run away and don't look back,life is too short.

[beenthere]

47sawdust
I don't think Jim is that kinda fella..  He is all about helping someone out that needs help, at least that is how I figure him in his many posts on the Forum. ;)

[woodandtractors]

Jim-You need to charge a "consulting fee" for your time. Too many of your life minutes got used up already and it sounds like you won't be sawing for this guy anytime soon. I doubt that he needs any more education-probably had too much already! He sounds like a typical Mass. "moonbat"-I'm guessing there's at least 4 bumper stickers on the back of his Prius.
Mike

[drobertson]

Consulting fees, uhmm, now there is an idea, two weeks ago the same happened to me, figure the bd/ft required, how many logs, then go mark the timber to saw?  diplomacy was in effect, the wife, not real thrilled, well rest assured the last job for him wound up being paid in beef, not a bad exchange, I think some folks are what they are, with little room for getting on the same page,    david

[Chuck White]

A neat stack of logs makes for a better relationship between the owner and the sawyer!

I just got done with a 6,000+bf sawjob where parts of the log pile looked like "pick-up-sticks", I wasn't real happy with that, but once I explained what I had expected, the customer fixed most of it after I left for the day!

[red oaks lumber]

why would you send someone 8 pages of instructuions? a simple 5 min phone conv. and everything should be set. just my opionion.

[bandmiller2]

Its a wonder Jim you have any hair left. I have to admire you road warriors, my mill's are stationary and I don't haul customer logs, that eliminates a lot of problems, but not all. Frank C.

[GDinMaine]

Just last week I got a call about sawing close to 4000bf of hardwood and softwood logs.  At first he wanted it done ASAP then, he decided to put it off until next year.  Since the logs have been on the ground for a month or two I suggested to get the pine and spruce sawed before long to avoid bugs and blue stain.  I was then sort of accused of trying to push him into having the work done.  I was just trying to offer useful information.   :-\

[drobertson]

I've heard that song before, "I would like some lumber, but there's no real hurry"  which equates to "no money"  it's a tough economy, too bad for so much timber that goes by the way side,   hind site has always been  20/20,   david

[Piston]

It's hard to tell from the pics, but to me, that looks more like a pile of firewood than a load of logs ready to be milled! 

What town were you in?  Must not be too far from me.  You could have swung by and picked up my tractor to sort all the logs  ;D

[Peter Drouin]

I try to educate the customer , and tell how things are going to happen . I have had the customer tell me how things are going to happen  :D
It's all ways my way or I take the highway ;D


And pnyburg, you can get customers to pay you by the hour to use your logrite arch to bring logs to the mill , your some salesmen

[grweldon]

I'd have to agree with Piston, I don't see anything there at I would mill unless that curved standing log is 30" dia. or so?

[Cedarman]

We sell quite a few cedar logs and poles for architectural purposes.  It is difficult to describe a big cedar log with all the knots, ingrown places etc.  We take pictures and send to the customer.  They get to see what the logs look like.
Why not have your customers take pictures of their logs in place and you can save a trip or make suggestions that the customer carry out before you visit?

[Chuck White]

Just last week I got a call about sawing close to 4000bf of hardwood and softwood logs.  At first he wanted it done ASAP then, he decided to put it off until next year.  Since the logs have been on the ground for a month or two I suggested to get the pine and spruce sawed before long to avoid bugs and blue stain.  I was then sort of accused of trying to push him into having the work done.  I was just trying to offer useful information.   :-\

Same here, I just left and told the customer he could call me again when he was ready to saw!

I did tell him that some of the Pine would have blue stain, and when I got back there to saw the logs about 2 months later the customer was introduced to blue stain!  ;)

[GDinMaine]

I use this picture to show a neat pile of logs ready to have the sawmill backed up to:



 

And feel free to copy or download and use.


Jim Rogers

PS. thanks for all your comments.

Thanks for posting this, Jim.  That is a great way to very quickly convey information that might require a long phone conversation.  Leaves no doubt about the space needed to complete the work.

[Jim_Rogers]

GD:
Thanks for your comments.

I just wanted to say it wasn't 8 pages of instruction, it was 8 pages of information.

Page one is my webpage first page which shows the type of service I offer.
Page two is how to make a lumber stack with stickers to air dry their own wood.
Page three is how to measure a log in order to estimate the lumber volume that may come from that log.
Page four is a blank worksheet where they can write down the dimensions of the logs, so that they can then tell me these dimensions and I can enter them into my excel spreadsheet and get them a cost estimate for their job.
Page five is my mill yard layout sheet with the above picture showing where the logs should be stacked to park the trailer sawmill next to the pile. It also contains a couple of sentences describing what is shown in the picture.
Page 6 and 7 are both the same except that one is for on site and one is for in my yard. And these are a set of questions with blanks for the answers. These questions are such as: what thickness do you want your lumber? What widths do you want your lumber? Do you need me to cut you stickers? Do you need me to cut you blocks to stack your wood on? And more so that I can completely understand what they want. And so I can do my best to mill their logs into the lumber they want.
I used to not have a "list" of questions and would just ask them. But then one time I forgot to ask some of them and didn't know the answer. Now with the list, I don't have to remember them and I write down the answers so that when the customer is not there I will know what he said to do.
I know some of you may think this is way too much to do, but it works for me.

And page 8 is my rate sheet.

They are all just information for the customer. This has evolved over the years of doing business, and as I said it works for me.

Jim Rogers