Log Arch Question

dmartin · September 25, 2009, 08:28:25 PM

I am planning to build a log arch that can handle up to a 36" log, the log arches that I have looked at online are about 9' long for that size log. I don't need to suspend the whole log as it is just going to be used on my land and I don't care if the back end drags on the ground. I was thinking that I would build it about 4' long (from wheels to hitch) just to lift the front end of the log off the ground. Is there any other reason to make it longer, am I missing something. Is there a reason to make it longer other than to suspend the whole log? Thanks.

Radar67 · September 25, 2009, 08:31:48 PM

Unless you are using a winch to lift the end of the log off the ground, the extra length provided the leverage needed to get the log up.

dmartin · September 25, 2009, 10:05:46 PM

I am going to use a winch to lift the log. I have a John Deere 790 tractor and a Taifun winch that mounts on the 3 pt hitch, the winch weighs a little over 700 lbs. The 3 pt hitch is rated for 850 lbs and with a big log hooked up it is too much weight for it to lift. I was thinking of getting a bigger tractor but the small one is good for tight places and with the loader it works well to roll logs to the mill. If I got a bigger tractor I would only use it occasionly to pull a big log so I'm thinking that a log arch would be what I need to handle the occasional bigger log. I would like to keep the arch shorter for manuverability in the woods but I was wondering if there are any other reasons to make it longer other than if you would want to lift the whole log off of the ground.

fishpharmer · September 25, 2009, 10:32:33 PM

Good Question, Dmartin. I have a big tractor (to me) 95 hp. and have dragged a few big logs by lifting the front end with the 3 pt. Worked fine. But the back end of the log dragging in the dirt made a pretty good rut on very hard ground. Seems like getting the log off the ground would be an advantage in that regard.

Tom · September 25, 2009, 11:11:45 PM

I have a Ford 1910 4wd with a FEL. It was rated 28 horses at the drawbar when new and being 4wd added another 1/3 of the horses for a total of approx. 37. That's a lot of guessing, but even at 28 horses, it is comparable to your 790, I think.

I have skidded some pretty good sized stuff in the swamp by just using a "tool bar" (1"x3" bar with holes in it it that is placed between the two lifts of the 3pt hitch. I then attach a skid hook to the tool bar.

Backing over the big end of the log, I drop the hook and then lift some of the weight of the log off of the ground. That little tractor will pull an enormous amount of weight like that. A sled under the back of the log might keep it from making a trench.

The weight of the log applies traction weight to the rear tires. If I need it, I put a scoop of dirt in the FEL to hold the front-end down. If the skidding hook is applied properly, it won't bind on the log but the end of the log will pass through the opening while the points hold the log securely.

I'm not trying to talk you out of the arch, but this arrangement will do the job cheaply until you get one built.

James P. · September 26, 2009, 05:28:14 PM

Hi DMartin , I recently built a log arch, I wanted something for my own woods so dragging wasn't going to be a big deal. Then i realized the benefit of being able to lift entire log. It is so you can travel on the road. If someone say within a few miles from me offers me a descent tree I can go get it. Also to go get telephone poles. You will taper a log quick on my chip and tar back roads. I ran out of steel and haven't finished mine but I am making it to travel. Slowly travel down the road with the log off the ground. Good luck,
James P

beenthere · September 26, 2009, 08:04:08 PM

Like LogRite shows, make two of the ~~smaller~~ short ones...one for each end of the log.

thecfarm · September 27, 2009, 07:29:17 AM

Are you planning to use the Taifun winch and the arch together?You will need to make it tall to pick up a 3 foot log off the ground.When you go into a hole the back of the tractor pivots down and is a lot closer to the ground than on level ground.Don't want the front of the log digging into the ground when you are hauling just about all the tractor wants to start out with.

John Mc · September 27, 2009, 08:45:09 PM

Quote from: Tom on September 25, 2009, 11:11:45 PM
I have a Ford 1910 4wd with a FEL. It was rated 28 horses at the drawbar when new and being 4wd added another 1/3 of the horses for a total of approx. 37. That's a lot of guessing, but even at 28 horses, it is comparable to your 790, I think.

Tom, your 1910 is a lot more tractor than his JD 790. I believe the 1910 3 pt hitch lift capacity is around 2000 lbs. The 790 is rated at 815 lbs. 790 is also a significantly smaller frame size and weight than your 1910... I'm guessing you've got about 1000 lbs on him.

The 790 frame size is about like a Ford/NH 1710. The lift capacity on the 3 pt hithc and the loader is probably closer to a Ford/NH 1510.

Just going from memory on the performance stats of the two tractors, but I'm at least in the ballpark. I have no doubt he's over his 3 pt capacity on the larger logs, but he's got enough HP to pull it if he gets an end up with the arch (I'd want to be REALLY careful pulling a large log down any significant grade with an arch behind a 790... it would be easy to get into a "tail wagging the dog" situation).

John Mc

jander3 · September 27, 2009, 11:20:26 PM

Dragging works fine. 4' might be a little short. The arch in this photo is about 8' (axle to hitch), which gives me about 6' to work with Normally, I just skid with the front end off the ground. If needed I could get a 10' or 12' off the ground with just the arch. I use a log arch junior lashed to the tail end of the log for keeping the long stuff (25' - 30') off the ground

dmartin · September 28, 2009, 01:17:58 PM

Thanks for the information, I ordered the steel for the arch and it will be 6' from the hitch to the center of the wheels. I can add to the length easily if I find that it is too short. I am planning to use it with the Tajfun winch and the 3 pt is close to capicity. 95 % of the logs that I will be hauling with it will be less than 24" and many less than 20". The 36" size is probably not needed but I would rather have it too big than too small. As John MC posted the tractor is small for pulling big logs so I think the back of the log on the ground is safer as it helps slow down the tractor when going downhill. I have all the trees I need on my land so I probably won't need to haul any on the road. Thanks again for the good information, I'll post pictures when I build it.

John Mc · September 28, 2009, 01:39:21 PM

I thought the design of this Norwood ATV Arch was interesting.

The chain rides up a slide, lifting the log as you start pulling. That itself is a neat idea, since you don't have to winch it up. The part I really like, though, is that if the log starts to run away from you on a downhill pull, it will slide forward and drop the front end of the log back onto the ground, acting as a brake.

I don't know how well this concept scales up to a 36" log like you want, but I thought it was an interesting idea. (This arch is only rated for 800 lbs according to Norwood's site -- or 1000 lbs, if you believe the specs on northern toolhttps://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=position"> Note:Please read the Forestry Forum's postion on this company's site... NT strikes again)

John Mc

tonto · September 28, 2009, 08:49:28 PM

Dmartin, looking forward to the pics and maybe some illustrations on how it was built and dimensions. Thanks, Tonto.

dmartin · September 28, 2009, 09:18:37 PM

John MC that is a neat design and it looks like it would work, the center support that the ring rides on would have to be pretty strong. I am planning to mount a pulley top center back and front and run the winch cable over them to use the winch to lift the log. I am also going to mount a hand winch with the pulleys offset in order to use the arch if the Tajfun winch is not mounted on the tractor. I have only cut 1 tree that is 36" (a red oak) and my neighbor drug it with his Deere 350 dozer. I haven't milled the oak yet but if I finish the arch before I mill the log I'll try it out on the oak for a test. I cut a couple Rock Oak (Chestnut Oak) last week and had to do as Tom said, fill the FEL bucket with dirt to keep the front end down. I'm hoping that with the arch I won't have any trouble handeling medimum size logs with the little 30 HP tractor. I am attaching some pictures of the bridge guardrail posts that I made with the Rock Oak, I'm going to make the rails out of Rock Oak also.

dmartin · September 28, 2009, 09:49:09 PM

Tonto the Arch frame will be 4" square tubing 1/4" thick, 36" high and 36" wide ID, it will have 16" x 3/8" plate triangle supports at the corners. The wheels will be from a Dodge Caravan with 14" tires. The "boom" and the piece that drops to the hitch will be 3" square tubing 1/4" thick. The 1ft peice that is the hitch is 2" heavy wall tubing and the diagonal supports from the arch to the boom will be 2" x 1/8 " square tubing. I'll post pictures when I build it.

RSteiner · September 29, 2009, 06:31:26 AM

I constructed a log arch 20+ years ago out of 2 1/2" square steel tubing and the front spindles from an AMC Concord sedan, the Dodge Caravan rear spindles will work too. I used the Dodge spindles for a trailer I made to go behind my tractor.

The arch I made is about 8' long from the rear axles to the point where the top back bone steps down to the trailer hitch. This arrangement makes transporting a 16' long, and some times longer, log possible. On the long logs I put the butt end towards the front so the balance point is in front of the axle. There is a boat winch positioned on the rear which lifts the log off the ground there are notches on the back and the front on the back bone the log can be secured to the acrh with a chain.

One feature I tried to incorporate was an extendable back bone. I got a piece of smaller square steel tubing that slipped inside of the back bone. The idea was that if I wanted to haul a longer log I could make the arch longer. I never have had to use that feature.

Getting the whole log off the ground makes a big difference and makes the whole moving process better for the ground and the towing vehicle. We have used it behind my sons ATV on occasion. You have to be careful going down hill when the log can weight more than the ATV.

Randy

james · September 29, 2009, 06:56:11 AM

any reason you couldn't put electric trailer brakes on the arch with a manual controller mounted on your tractor? :P :P ??? ???
james

Ironwood · October 01, 2009, 07:36:56 PM

James, NOT A ONE.

That make TOTAL sense to me (need 12 volts).

Ironwood

Lud · October 02, 2009, 05:59:39 AM

I brought nine Ash and Maple logs home from two and a half miles west in six trips on the road. It takes over 15 minutes to get there in high range , 4th gear. Warn 3700 lifts one end of the log and I chain it up- then the other.

The 30" butt log was a load. You have to drive in a manner where you appreciate the mass you've accelerated. I wasn't texting if you get my drift! Sure made a difference when I came to the hard 90 degree blind turn and here came the school bus taking it wide. I put in the clutch, rode the brake; she waved/waved me on and cut back in; I dropped it down to 2nd and had a glance at my load as I articulated around her nose. I wouldn't have wanted to be dragging.

I would'nt have wanted to try it with a smaller arch.

Ironwood · October 02, 2009, 08:56:07 AM

This is more of a PUSH issue than a PULL issue

Ironwood

TessiersFarm · October 03, 2009, 08:14:23 PM

I've hauled a lot of wood with my 790 and if I can't pick the but up I just tapper it with the chainsaw and drag it. I have a norse winch and I think a short arch would be real nice. We used one behind an old case 310 crawler for years. I don't think it was more than 5 feet or so to the wheels, the back of the arch looked a lot like a skidder and we just winched the logs up and gave her hell. It had some old 20" truck wheels and tires on it. My father was skidding into the yard one day and that old case was earning her keep for sure, a JD salesman was setting on a pile of wood and after Father unhooked the load and came around to the salesman the guy says to my father "I won't tell you our skidders will haul any more than that crawler but you won't have to work so hard." He didn't sell a skidder but he did give us a good laugh.

dmartin · October 04, 2009, 07:49:19 PM

I got the steel on Thursday and I'll start assembling it soon, I travel alot for work and spend most weekends at the cabin so I'm sure it will be a few weeks before I finish it. I wish I would have had it finished this weekend to skid two chestnut oaks that were too heavy for the 790 with the winch mounted. The 3 pt will lift the winch but with a log attached it is too much weight for the 3 pt to lift. I really dont want to suspend the log, the back end dragging on the ground is fine with me, and I want to keep it simple, no need for brakes. I really just wanted to know if there is any other reason to make the arch longer other than to suspend the log if you would want to do that. I used the Chestnut oaks to make the top rails for the bridge guardrails that I am making, I just need to add some lower boards and and vertical supports and I'll be finished.

bedway · October 04, 2009, 08:10:07 PM

Very nice,,,,,,,,,,beams, and the pics.

beenthere · October 04, 2009, 08:13:29 PM

The first "arch" my friend made back in the early 70's was to drag jack pine logs out using his Ford garden tractor had a tongue length of about 5'. The drag was about 1 mile and one log at a time.