looking for a better way to cup out a log

yukon cornelius · June 02, 2014, 10:58:06 AM

I build a lot of yard swing cedar log frames and struggle with the legs. where the leg logs meet the the top rail log cup out the leg to fit the rail. I am looking for a better tool to do it. I am very detail oriented an like a good fit. I use a saw now and make several slice cuts then chisel it out and belt sand to a final finish. this is pretty labor intensive and dosent always leave a great fit. im thinking about a round drum knife setup like on a planer or edger and mount on a chop saw type setup where angles can de adjusted. I don't know when I would be able to make such a contraption but I need to do something soon.

anyone have any ideas or any tools that fit the application?

thanks,
larry

Jason_AliceMae Farms · June 02, 2014, 11:41:12 AM

Larry, I think I am following what you are describing but not sure so feel free to ignore me if I am way off

What about a forstner bit to drill out the mortise? One the same size diameter as your tenon cutters. Could use it on a drill press to help get the angles you need. They also make some countersink cutters as well to give different fits.

Is that what you were talking about? Sorry, I am just more of a visual person.

21incher · June 02, 2014, 07:14:13 PM

I have used a hole saw to get rounds to intersect if that is what you are talking about. They cut about 2 inches deep then knock out the slug and drill deeper. They are readily avail up to 6 inches.

redprospector · June 02, 2014, 09:03:23 PM

They make an attachment for a 4 1/2" angle grinder that has a chainsaw chain on the wheel. They do pretty good at coping out the ends of small logs. They're not too expensive (bout $30 or so), but will bite you hard if you take your mind off of it.
If you choose to use one of these, make sure to use a grinder with a trigger switch, and not one with an on/off switch that will stay on by itself.

yukon cornelius · June 02, 2014, 09:53:58 PM

this is what im dealing with. sorry for the poor description.

I have seen the chainsaw grinder attachment but it scares the bejesus out of me. im dangerous enough without the spinning flying wheel of death!!

I really did consider that when I first started looking at tools for this.

I made one stand today and I have 2 more to make.

ozarkgem · June 02, 2014, 09:56:30 PM

How about a bandsaw? are you talking about the joint on the bottom back of the swing?
Maybe a log wizard. I have one. When I come your way I will try and remember to bring it with me.

ozarkgem · June 02, 2014, 09:57:41 PM

just saw the pics log wizard would work.

gfadvm · June 02, 2014, 10:10:55 PM

I agree that those chainsaw wheels are very dangerous. Kutzall (not positive on the spelling) makes discs for hand grinders that are much safer and the extra coarse ones work quickly. These are what most chair makers use to rough sculpt their seats. There are some other brands of similar discs.

Larry · June 02, 2014, 10:13:05 PM

Quote from: redprospector on June 02, 2014, 09:03:23 PM
They make an attachment for a 4 1/2" angle grinder that has a chainsaw chain on the wheel. They do pretty good at coping out the ends of small logs. They're not too expensive (bout $30 or so), but will bite you hard if you take your mind off of it.
If you choose to use one of these, make sure to use a grinder with a trigger switch, and not one with an on/off switch that will stay on by itself.

I was thinking the same thing. Before you take that leap you might just try a 36 grit sandpaper disc. I cope moulding with one all the time. The disc might load up too fast with cedar sapwood.

I agree with the others about the danger of using one of the chainsaw wheels.

yukon cornelius · June 02, 2014, 10:27:34 PM

log wizard looks like it would work! I like it!

Ianab · June 02, 2014, 11:23:48 PM

Rather than free handing the cut with the log wizard, what about bolting the angle grinder to a jig on rails, or something like a drill press? Clamp log in place, start grinder, pull lever to move the cutter past the log. Shower of wood chips and it's done. Safe because everything is clamped or bolted down.

Be a bit of work to make up the jig, but after that you could carve up logs by the dozen.

Ian

redprospector · June 02, 2014, 11:52:27 PM

Quote from: Ianab on June 02, 2014, 11:23:48 PM
Rather than free handing the cut with the log wizard, what about bolting the angle grinder to a jig on rails, or something like a drill press? Clamp log in place, start grinder, pull lever to move the cutter past the log. Shower of wood chips and it's done. Safe because everything is clamped or bolted down.

Be a bit of work to make up the jig, but after that you could carve up logs by the dozen.

Ian

Now there's the ticket. The key to production in the wood shop is being able to reproduce results in an accurate, timely, and safe fashion. Jigs are the answer to accomplishing that.
As far as the wheel being dangerous...it is. But so is a hand held circular saw, and a table saw, and crossing the hiway. All of these require a good understanding of the tool, it's capabilities, and your undivided attention. Just like the "chainsaw wheel". But the jig to make it a "semi-automatic" operation would be the most productive in my opinion.

Lud · June 03, 2014, 05:47:09 AM

Having used the "chainsaw disc" for carving and seats for a few decades I understand their reputation as they are a bit scary and you need to "lock and load" your grip and it pays to have goggles and an apron on!

None the less, seeing what you're trying to achieve, I'd mount the handheld grinder's butt end, with clamps , into a piece of heavy wall 3" to 4" plastic pipe that I mounted overhead so the disc could pendulum side to side rigidly while throwing the chips away from you.

You couldn't get it all at once but if you could have the disc off, set the height, turn it on, swing it through the log that is clamped solidly, shut it off, lower the unit,etc. It suggests a foot switch! With your hand on the handle of the grinder to control feed and the log in a "V" clamp you could make that curved cut repeatedly.
....
One disclaimer.......I come up with W.A.S. all the time! 8)Good Luck! 8)

Tom L · June 03, 2014, 01:39:30 PM

I would try to mount that on the bed of a drill press, up against an angle stop and clamp the wood to the angle stop put a hole saw in the drill press the same diameter as the log you need to mount too.

make another angle support to just lightly touch the opposite side of the hole saw above the teeth , so you miss the set on the teeth, this way it will not want to wander away from the cut.

Larry · June 03, 2014, 03:47:45 PM

A machine from the past called a spindle carver would do that cut in a few seconds. They are seldom talked about or seen, but there are still a few craftsman that use them. I've seen a ball and claw carved on the bottom of a table leg in less than a minute.

Ianab · June 03, 2014, 05:25:44 PM

Quote from: Larry on June 03, 2014, 03:47:45 PM
A machine from the past called a spindle carver would do that cut in a few seconds. They are seldom talked about or seen, but there are still a few craftsman that use them. I've seen a ball and claw carved on the bottom of a table leg in less than a minute.

Is it just me, or is there a good reason you don't see them much any more?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaEZRQrg9s0

That cutter sticking out like that, spinning 18.000 rpm, with no guards, guides, table etc. And folks are worried about the chainsaw angle grinder....

Ian

Alcranb · June 03, 2014, 06:54:48 PM

Bet one could make quick work of trimming their fingernails with that machine too.

yukon cornelius · June 03, 2014, 07:47:00 PM

and removing gorilla glue from hands!!

it would work amazing though for my needs.

redprospector · June 04, 2014, 12:09:35 AM

Quote from: yukon cornelius on June 03, 2014, 07:47:00 PM
and removing gorilla glue from hands!! it would work amazing though for my needs.

And you said the chainsaw wheel scares you??? :D
Seriously though, when I had my shop going I had some little devices that were sold by Woodmizer in the early 90's. They were known as the "Duplicarver". I had a contract for several hundred mirrors I made with a carved frame, and the Duplicarver delivered. I had 3 of them at one time, I've still got at least one in storage. Mine had a Black & Decker router on one side, and a stylus on the other. It would copy something you hand carved exactly. Even gun stocks.
http://youtu.be/x9ECsmFOT1o

Magicman · June 04, 2014, 08:24:50 AM

With that music, it was almost elegant. ;D

yukon cornelius · June 04, 2014, 03:15:21 PM

holy crap! that's exactly what I explained to my wife what I wanted to build! I could get the cut to exactly match the log I want to meet up against! that's how I LIKE to make things. im pretty detail oriented. my LIKE to make things exact don't always match my ability to get it done. :D

Ianab · June 04, 2014, 03:50:38 PM

Well actually you would want a "reverse" of the other log, so they would fit together.

But the same sort of idea. Instead of the guide and the cutter moving together, they would be on the opposite ends of a rocker arm. Where the guide came up, the cutter goes down...

But yeah, it has potential , and is pretty safe because everything is clamped down.

Ian

yukon cornelius · June 04, 2014, 04:52:51 PM

ianab that's what I was going for. it would be a teeter totter type where when it went up over the log it would dip down equally into the other log. the cupped log would mount at a 90 angle to my other log also. but that's the same idea had to match the log. one day in the future I will start this project.

ozarkgem · June 04, 2014, 05:58:52 PM

Here is a notch I made with the log wizard. I only tried 3 times so a little more practice and it would work very well. I need to sharpen the blades and maybe play with the depth settings since I set it up for debarking. I noticed it wanted to split the back side of the cut so when I cut both ways it worked pretty good. Took about 30 seconds. You could fine tune the notch with a hand grinder and flap wheel. Trying to make a 3 axes gig would get complecated unless you were doing thousands probably not worth the time. Then CNC would be the way to go.

drobertson · June 04, 2014, 07:19:30 PM

A thought that came to mind was to get a set of holes saws with a variety of diameters that match your logs, clamp a waste block to the side of the log so that the hole saw is in wood, making a radius cut 1/2 the diameter in the log you need it in. please let us know how its going,