punky wood and low viscosity epoxy!

[doc henderson]

I have ordered materials.  some may have seen the old sycamore log I slabbed and the two live edge ones i mocked up for a bar top.  some edges are punky but solid.  i am planning to splint them with epoxy.  I used a product with a syringe years ago, to stabilize dry rot in my O'Day Javelin sail boat I had just out of school.  I want to fix the dry rot, and then fill the voids, and then prob. do a thick bar top pour.  any thought or ideas.



 


 

[doc henderson]

@tule peak timber , @WDH , @GeneWengert-WoodDoc , @Brad_bb .

[Unclefish]

I have used the get rot penetrate epoxy also on some soft wood on a boat. Seemed to work pretty good. Think you have a good idea .keep the build going . Like the pattern in the wood also. Just need a stool on this side of the bar .so I can set down and order a Captain Coke...

[doc henderson]

Thanks uncle fish!  stop by if you are in the neighborhood.  I think it is unique enough and for my cousin Mike, and therefore worth a little expense to make it all work.  

[Brad_bb]

I have used Smith's Penetrating epoxy sealer.  I used it on some oak barnwood that still had bark and used it to soak and penetrate the bark to keep it adhered to the wood permanently.  

http://www.smithandcompany.org/CPES/

[tule peak timber]

Brad is right on with Smith's CPS. A couple of years back Smith started selling their formula direct to Jamestown Distributors (a boat supply place) and you can now purchase the undiluted penetrating formula directly from Jamestown under their own label. The advantage of doing this is that you can add up to 50% lacquer thinner or acetone to the base 2 part formula and achieve your own viscosity. Most other epoxy formulas tell you flat out that you cannot thin, but we successfully thin and wipe down all the time with mixtures up to 10%, but you have to be careful. The Smith's formulation is unique and really valuable in deep penetration as that is what it is designed to do. Smith's is a pretty small company and if you pick up the phone and call the owner he is a pretty interesting character to speak with. Below is a door that pretty much is all rot, held together with penetrating epoxy. Cheers, Rob

 

[Larry]

Is that TotalBoat?  I've used TotalBoat and happy with it.

I know West really discourages thinning there epoxy.  Only thing they recommend is heating the wood first.

[tule peak timber]

Yes on the TotalBoat, their in house relabel. The people at West are just sales people.........

[doc henderson]

yes total boat.  Is it better to get some I can thin?  can I just spread it onto the warmed wood.  any tricks?  should I put something under it and flood it?  do I need to inject, or just let it soak?  If it was just for me I would experiment.  but now Mike has his heart (his wife) set on this top.

[tule peak timber]

I would thin it, and soak/saturate.Also remember that several days are required for the "thinner" to outgass and leave the wood. Take your time ! Sometimes we seal the bottom of the project with epoxy and wood flour as a putty the day before flooding the top.
 The thinned penetrating epoxy will go places you can't even see on it's own. Just guide it around the surface with a spatula, screed, or putty knife and keep putting the epoxy where it wants to go.We do several coats over time until sanding produces a flaw free surface, sometimes easier said than done ....

[doc henderson]

any more pics?  can I thin the total boat as well?  or will I need the special formulation.  I will research more tomorrow

[doc henderson]

I know it will eat Styrofoam, how abut plastic sheeting?

[tule peak timber]

Polystyrene, polyethylene, ,,,,way different property's. Epoxy is supposed to be 100%solids which is why it does not shrink after reacting. The thinners  "vehicle"are the problem ,,,as well as the solution to getting the epoxy to penetrate.
  The Total Boat penetrating epoxy can be thinned up to 50% with lacquer thinner or acetone making it the viscosity of water .
  You can also hunt down Smiths CPS which is the same stuff ----thinner already added.
  Both of these products are a light amber color and not clear. Neither one dries super hard and have no UV resistance and should be top coated depending on end use. There is another thread going today about epoxy top coats.  Rob

[tule peak timber]

Doc , two tops we worked today with the penetrating epoxy. The shiny spots are pin holes we keep chasing and will eventually fill. These tops get sanded down to the woods surface then  orbit sanded with hardwax oil on a Scotchbrite pad. Monterey cypress.

 

 

[doc henderson]

thanks tule and all!

[knowslittle]

Have to disagree with Tule.

Been using West Systems for about 18 years, built a Cedar strip canoe, and they had/have the very best customer service staff I have ever encountered for any product, actually calling me back (and not at my request) to see how the boat project was coming.  Most admirable in my view.
  If I remember correctly, West Systems believes that only the vehicle, {the acetone}, penetrates the rotten wood, and the epoxy proper does not.
According to them, if you heat the wood, just about 10-15 degrees above ambient temp., the viscosity of the epoxy lowers and penetrates better this way..


Disclaimer: this is from memory.

[Brad_bb]

Here's one issue I see.  You're making a bartop.  You want a smooth surface on top.  I think what you need to do is use the penetrating epoxy to really solidify any rot in the wood.  The penetrating epoxy will not fill voids like regular epoxy.  So I think you may still want to use a regular epoxy(or bar top epoxy or whatever) AFTER you've solidified the rotten spots with the penetrating.That will give you a totally smooth surface you can sand and polish.  That way you can spill drinks on it without a problem.

Never mind, I just re-read that you said you were going to do that......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrbybKWwb7c

[doc henderson]

Thanks Brad.  I appreciate the affirmation.  I am trying to do it right the first time.  It is the capabilities of the different epoxies I am fishing for and I have used epoxy in smaller quantities, this is the biggest project I have done.  I did not want t get done and have it weigh 400 pounds and cost a thousand dollars.    thanks to all.  Thanks Gilda!

[doc henderson]

 

 
William starting on the back side of the punky sycamore slab.  I ordered 1 gallon and this one slab took all of it.  had to order another two, at $157 each gallon.  I am committed now.  both slabs weighed 40 pounds each, which tells you how punky they are, and I will weigh again when epoxy is done. to see how much % by weight ends up being "plastic".

[doc henderson]

@Resonator can you find the Dobro in the very neat and tidy workshop?

[Resonator]

Yes!

[Old Greenhorn]

DOc, you play dobro?! You truly are a man of many talents.
(You might wanna throw a sheet over that thing, you are gonna bee cleaning sawdust out of all the little innard parts for a long time.)

[doc henderson]

that is what compressed air is for!? ;) :D.  It is a style of music, that some would say, there is no such thing as  a "good dobro player".  (I like bashful brother Oswald).  Maybe my wife won't let me bring it in the house.  8) It gets played along with music in the shop.  often at the early morning hours.  maybe a beer or two.  At my old job at the children's hospital, it was played at about 1 AM.

[Old Greenhorn]

 It is a style of music, that some would say, there is no such thing as  a "good dobro player".  (I like bashful brother Oswald).  

Sorry Doc, gotta stop you right there. I don't know who Brother Oswald is, but I do know Jerry Douglas and Cindy Cashdollar. Jerry is an acquaintance and Cindy is a local friend, both are monster players over many genre's. (I also had Andy Hall (Infamous Stringdusters) buy me a beer at a bar once before I realized who he was. Yes, I bought him one too.)
 I do agree that instrument can be a 'challenge' for some folks to appreciate. I am reminded of a high end workshop I was working at with Cindy leading the talk. It was the only workshop in the whole 3 day program where instruments were not allowed. I am paraphrasing Cindy here, but she said something like "Can you imagine 30 Dobros in the same room all trying to learn the same tune or licks? Good God! I could not survive that!" :D :D
 I did get to watch Cindy and Jerry share the same stage during that weekend and it was something I will never forget. Two very different players and people but both very good at what they do. Fun folks to hang out with too.

[doc henderson]

@Old Greenhorn I choose this one cause hit hat looks like yours.  you friends will know of him.  go to 50 seconds to start the song.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L21rXgzjiFE