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My ash trees are dying.

Started by cutterboy, August 19, 2022, 05:14:12 PM

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cutterboy

 

 

 

 

 
I knew it would happen sooner or later but I was hoping it would be later. The emerald ash borer has arrived. These trees are in a section of the farm that I don't visit very often because it is thick with bittersweet vines and thorn bushes. But last March I cut a path down into that area with the idea of harvesting some of those ash trees before the bugs found them. The trees looked fine last March but of course there were no leaves on the trees then so it would be hard to tell. I'm glad I cut the path in.


 

 
That 2nd picture is where the path ended. I have gone in and widened and improved the path and now it's harvest as much ash as I can, both logs and firewood, while the ground is dry.

   Keep on cutting     Cutter
To underestimate old men and old machines is the folly of youth. Frank C.

GRANITEstateMP

Sorry to see that Cutter. It's a very sad process from here on out
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Walnut Beast

Definitely brings a frown to the face. I had wondered years ago when I had several ash and one monster one dying. I've got dead ones all through my woods. And was one of the first places in the state after they said the first case of emerald ash was six miles from my woods on the news and I knew they were way off when the first case was discovered because mine started several years before they said about the first case discovered 

Firewoodjoe

That is to bad. Get them cut while they are good. But around here the elm the ash and the beech are all making a come back. Lots of saplings up to 4" DBH. Unfortunately non of them are very valuable to begin with. And we are afraid the beech will drown out the hard maple. Mother Nature. 🤷‍♂️

Walnut Beast

What's amazing is how trees can get wiped out everywhere and some they don't go after and are just fine. I noticed yesterday when I helped my old buddy move some heavy equipment from one field to another five miles away that all the ash trees there were just fine and I said I was amazed because they were fairly big. The only difference I noticed was he had cattle in there. 

newoodguy78

That's a shame. Keep your head on a swivel cutting them, especially in amongst the bittersweet, never can tell where broken pieces are going to end up. 

EricR

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on August 19, 2022, 07:27:05 PM
That is to bad. Get them cut while they are good. But around here the elm the ash and the beech are all making a come back. Lots of saplings up to 4" DBH. Unfortunately non of them are very valuable to begin with. And we are afraid the beech will drown out the hard maple. Mother Nature. 🤷‍♂️
At the rate beech leaf disease is spreading those saplings are not long for this world.  It's pretty ugly in southern new england

Firewoodjoe

Quote from: EricR on August 19, 2022, 09:31:46 PM
Quote from: Firewoodjoe on August 19, 2022, 07:27:05 PM
That is to bad. Get them cut while they are good. But around here the elm the ash and the beech are all making a come back. Lots of saplings up to 4" DBH. Unfortunately non of them are very valuable to begin with. And we are afraid the beech will drown out the hard maple. Mother Nature. 🤷‍♂️
At the rate beech leaf disease is spreading those saplings are not long for this world.  It's pretty ugly in southern new england
Yeah it killed ours years ago. 6-8 years ago I was kinda nervous to even cut them. There was so much white on them I was think is this good to be breathing lol now most of the cut-able size trees just make pulp. If that. And the regrowth is thriving.

petefrom bearswamp

Cutterboy, I feel your pain.
I panicked in 2009 after attending a wedding in Chicago and seeing all the dead ash along I 90 on our way home.
Sold all my merchantable ash then using my buy high sell low principal, took a bit of a bath.
I have dodged the EAB bullet here for the last 13 years.
EAB evidence spotty last year now almost all are infected.
my forester son marked the remaining 162 ash, mostly in the 15 to 16 DBH class.
WE have been harvesting them and selling the logs on the landing.
We only work 2 half days a week so is slow going, but we manage to get from 15 to 22 trees out in a morning not bad for a couple of amateur loggers.
Averaging $.70 per bf so far as the logs are pretty small.
The buyer wont take the dead trees as the PPB invades as soon as the tree dies.
We will stay warm for a few seasons burning the tops.

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cutterboy

Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on August 20, 2022, 08:56:27 AM

The buyer wont take the dead trees as the PPB invades as soon as the tree dies.

So it is better to harvest the live trees first and save the dead ones for firewood?
To underestimate old men and old machines is the folly of youth. Frank C.

aigheadish

I made the mistake of counting the dead ash in my yard, about 6 acres. I think I stopped counting when I got to around 55, and most of the yard is grass or open field. I've got probably an acre or 1.5 acres of "woods" and it sucks to see all the ash skeletons sticking up in the tree line. They neighbor and I took down two big ones a few weeks back and one of those and another in the middle of the yard broke off about 10-20 feet up, and they were both bigger than 2 feet across. Sketchy! I've got another that I'll likely try to push over with the backhoe before it falls where I don't want it to. That one isn't going to be fun as the bottom of the trunk looks like an "S" and we can't quite tell where it'll go. Really there is only one good direction for it and it seems unlikely to go that way. Save for maybe a few other dead ones if most fall where they stand it won't hurt my feelings too much. 

I've got one of the big ones laying in the yard that I hope to slab up sometime to see what I can get out of it, wouldn't surprise me if it just goes to the fire pile. 

Sad.
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Rhodemont

I saw mine dying last fall.  Dropped quite a few this past winter as saw logs and firewood.  Many leafed out this spring but now, particularly with the drought we have been in, have lost their foliage and are done.  There are many to fell as soon as fall comes.
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Clark

Quote from: cutterboy on August 20, 2022, 02:49:41 PMSo it is better to harvest the live trees first and save the dead ones for firewood?

Yes. If things are more advanced, and I would say you are at that point, I would focus on harvesting those with the most leaf area and leaving the rest. Ash become very brittle after EAB and trying to utilize all of it, while an admirable goal, should give one pause to evaluate the risks and rewards of cutting the trees.

I don't know how much ash you have on your property but if it amounts to much and you can't get to it in a timely manner remember that there is nothing wrong with letting it fall down.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

Southside

Quote from: aigheadish on August 22, 2022, 10:09:20 AMThey neighbor and I took down two big ones a few weeks back and one of those and another in the middle of the yard broke off about 10-20 feet up, and they were both bigger than 2 feet across.


That 20' up clean snap off is very common with EAB killed ash.  The issue is that by the time we see the tree is impacted by the bug - dead leaves, slipping bark, etc - it's actually been compromised for a couple of years and the fiber is already weak. Now if it's "standing dead", it's likely really compromised and like you said - just breaks off.  I won't hand fell Ash as a result - they just rain down too many widow makers.  Proceed with extreme caution. 
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aigheadish

I wholey agree, other than I'm knocking them down in the name of safety as well, which is tough and scary. I need to learn more about ropes and block and tackles, I think.

When I was dumber than I am now I went back to the creek line and knocked over a couple with the backhoe. I'd reach up as high as I can with the hoe, push the tree a bit and hope it cracked and fell. Well, I was farther away from one than I should have been so I didn't have quite the pushing distance on my hoe. I gave her a shove, listening and watching for the cracking, and the next thing I know the glass in the hoe side window (which was open and horizontal above me) exploded, as a branch about 8' long and probably 4-6" around came crashing down. I got very lucky in that the hoe has an enclosed ROPS and the only damage was the busted window and some cuts on my back where the glass fell down my shirt. 
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Southside

I realize it's difficult, but a forestry harvester is the only safe way if you have any volume of dead Ash to deal with, for all of the reason above. 

Ropes and blocks don't stop the limbs from raining down, and that break point is always an unknown. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

moodnacreek

Just a little tap against a tall tree can bring down something the wind won't. You won't see this happen if you are on the machine.

Skeans1

Quote from: moodnacreek on August 23, 2022, 12:59:53 PM
Just a little tap against a tall tree can bring down something the wind won't. You won't see this happen if you are on the machine.
Depends on the machine and how you're looking up.
Quote from: aigheadish on August 22, 2022, 10:09:20 AM
I made the mistake of counting the dead ash in my yard, about 6 acres. I think I stopped counting when I got to around 55, and most of the yard is grass or open field. I've got probably an acre or 1.5 acres of "woods" and it sucks to see all the ash skeletons sticking up in the tree line. They neighbor and I took down two big ones a few weeks back and one of those and another in the middle of the yard broke off about 10-20 feet up, and they were both bigger than 2 feet across. Sketchy! I've got another that I'll likely try to push over with the backhoe before it falls where I don't want it to. That one isn't going to be fun as the bottom of the trunk looks like an "S" and we can't quite tell where it'll go. Really there is only one good direction for it and it seems unlikely to go that way. Save for maybe a few other dead ones if most fall where they stand it won't hurt my feelings too much.

I've got one of the big ones laying in the yard that I hope to slab up sometime to see what I can get out of it, wouldn't surprise me if it just goes to the fire pile.

Sad.

Quick way to check lean is a plum bob when falling tall timber I'll use a retractable key chain to check as well as double as an extra sight for falling.

aigheadish

Where do you hold the plumb bob? I could conceivably tie one to the end of the backhoe bucket to get up high but this specific tree comes out of the ground and takes a left then right then leans one way then the other. 
New Holland LB75b, Husqvarna 455 Rancher, Husqvarna GTH52XLS, Hammerhead 250, Honda VTX1300 for now and probably for sale (let me know if you are interested!)

cutterboy

I think you guys have convinced me to leave the dead ash alone and let nature take care of them. They are out of the way in a back corner of the farm. I'll concentrate my efforts on the live ones. There is some good timber and lots of firewood in the ash in that area.

Thank you all for your replies and good advice.
To underestimate old men and old machines is the folly of youth. Frank C.

g_man

Cutter, what did you use to cut your trail thru all that bitter sweet and thorns ? Does not look like it was a fun job. I have a place almost as thick as that but buckthorn. Keep thinking there must be a better way then a saw and hand piling.

gg

cutterboy

g__man, just a chainsaw and thick gloves. You are right, it was not a fun job.
To underestimate old men and old machines is the folly of youth. Frank C.

cutterboy

What my paths look like now.

 

 

 
To underestimate old men and old machines is the folly of youth. Frank C.

AndyVT

My forester advised me to cut all merchantable ash, of which I have few, now, as they will inevitably be killed by one or more pests. 
No EAB here yet but crown dieback is prevalent among the ailing trees. 
Path looks good

Yoder409

Fortunately (??) for me...........the borer started hitting my ash about a year or two before I was going to do a huge remodel/addition to my house.  I cut what I could get to and get out with my (laughable) rudimentary system.  What I got out sawed 1900 bf.  Had it all dried and milled into window trim, base board and T&G paneling for the house project.

Once it dies, I don't even like to WALK under it.........let alone nose the bar of a saw into it.  To many widow makers. 
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits.

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