Author Topic: braces and sheds (Read 7399 times)

Greg · « **on:** April 14, 2003, 09:21:02 PM »

ohsoloco,

Nice pic of your frame there!

Can I ask the dimension of your braces?

I usually try stick to copying what (I read) the old timers did. For example, a common right triangle brace measure:

3' by 3' by 4' 2 and 15/16"

Once you've got layout down, you can crank out these pretty fast. That's good, because you'll need lots of 'em.

I've worked on frames with 3x5" as well as 4x6" braces. I like the bulkier look of the bigger ones.

IndyIan,

For your shed project, if you haven't already, consider Jack Sobon's garden shed design. It's 12 x 16 and uses alot of simple joinery. Have you seen his books?

p.s. There are forums on the TFG site, but they are not terribly active.

Thanks Jeff for putting this up!
Greg

IndyIan · « **Reply #1 on:** April 15, 2003, 06:55:43 AM »

Wow, things move fast here! Thanks for setting this up Jeff.

Greg,
I've got Sobon's book on making a traditional timber frame house and Steve Chappells, a timber frame workshop.

Do the shed plans in sobon's other book have a raising plan? It would be good to see how its supposed to be done.

Ian

ohsoloco · « **Reply #2 on:** April 15, 2003, 08:45:13 AM »

Greg, I started out by making my braces 24inches from the corner in both directions (to give me the right triangle). After a little math I determined that the length of the braces on the inside (shorter) length would be 33.94", or about 33-15/16"

After trying to lay two of these braces out on an 8ft. timber, I realized that I didn't have enough room for two of them after adding the tenons. So I switched to 20 inches both ways, which put the length of the brace at 28-1/4" at the short side....plenty of room to get two braces out of each timber. I made my braces 3" by 5.5", I also like the look of the meatier braces.

Indylan, Sobon's other book "Timber Frame Construction" has a chapter about raising, but it is more about raising frames in general than doing the small garden toolshed.

Bibbyman · « **Reply #3 on:** April 15, 2003, 08:48:18 AM »

Mary and I got to make our first direct contribution to a timber frame home just a month or so back. We were contacted to supply 3x10 and 4x10 short chunks of walnut to make knee braces in a timber frame house. The rest of the timbers were oak. We didn't supply any of the rest of the frame.

We got to see the framers fitting one set of frames in their shop. I thought they were going to a bit of overkill on accuracy of the joints as the beams were only partially air dry so they were going to move some anyway. The frame was shimmed up on sawhorses and they would take a transit and shoot the elevation at each joint. Then adjust the shims to level the frame. They'd re-check joint - maybe shaving a couple of thousands off with a chisel about 2-1/2" wide with a small baseball bat for a handle.

I would have liked to spend more time watching and asking questions but I know how it is when you're running a business. I'd like to see them set it up at the house site and see what the house looked like when it was done.

Greg · « **Reply #4 on:** April 15, 2003, 09:02:22 AM »

Quote

Wow, things move fast here! Thanks for setting this up Jeff.

Greg,
I've got Sobon's book on making a traditional timber frame house and Steve Chappells, a timber frame workshop.

Do the shed plans in sobon's other book have a raising plan? It would be good to see how its supposed to be done.

Ian

Not sure what you mean by a raising plan.

For a simple structure like this (3 bents) its one bent at a time, putting in your wall girts between the bents. Then the plates on top of your posts. Then the rafters.

Hows that for a plan? Granted I've not actually raised my own frame (yet)... so take my advice with a grain of salt...

Don't skimp on manpower, though, the more bodes the better to lift. If I killed myself raising my frame, I'd be in big trouble... Depending on how green the timbers, I'g guess each bent in Sobon's basic frame is probably between 600 - 900 lbs.

;-)
Greg

ohsoloco · « **Reply #5 on:** April 15, 2003, 09:06:51 AM »

Bibbyman, that sounds like a very nice frame, the walnut and oak would make for a nice contrast. Also sounds like they were using a slick to shave the joints...I need to get me one of those

Bibbyman · « **Reply #6 on:** April 15, 2003, 03:18:44 PM »

I'm going to worm my way to an invite to see the house and maybe get some picture. Being built for a lake house for a DR.

Met and talked with the DR. Nice guy.. really into the frame house thing. Didn't want to hear about the pain in my back from sawing all those short logs.

ohsoloco · « **Reply #7 on:** April 15, 2003, 03:52:01 PM »

Did they cut a curve into the braces? I would think that's why they wanted 10 inch wide braces....or did they just want the look of the chunky ones?

Pictures would be nice if you ever take a look at the house

Bibbyman · « **Reply #8 on:** April 15, 2003, 05:07:43 PM »

I think he was going for a draw knife, rough hewn look.

sawinmontana · « **Reply #9 on:** April 15, 2003, 08:59:28 PM »

About three years ago my brother and I built the 12x16 garden tool shed out of Sobons book. We were both poor carpenters and hadn't even seen a timber frame except for pictures. We just had a very strong desire to try it. He bought the logs, I did the milling and we both dove in. It turned out pretty neat. But what a learning curve from our first joints to our last!! We used mostly Doug Fir and Western Larch with some Engleman Spruce and Lodgepole Pine. If I did another one I probably would enlarge it some. But at the time we wanted to go exactly by the book to reduce the chance of errors!. evan then we made a few, he cut one post to short, after He had cut the mortises in it!! I cut one brace mortise in the wrong location, just to name a few. If I used Spruce agin I would be more picky and look for some slick ones. Spruce Knots are like cutting iron. I better quit rambling, I just really enjoy this subject.!!
Scott

ohsoloco · « **Reply #10 on:** April 15, 2003, 10:17:13 PM »

Keep ramblin' sawinmontana

It's great to hear from some others that are fascinated by this time tested building method. Timber frames are so aesthetically pleasing to look at, so much fun to build....and just plain neat

I hear ya about the spruce knots! I haven't tried to chisel into one yet, but when I was sawing some knotty spruce last year I ended up with some nice waves

Just couldn't get that stuff to cut right.

When I look at big house or barn frames I wonder how it can be done. That's why I started off so small...well, at least going from logs to frame I started off small. I still like to think about those timbers that I worked with in North Carolina with my own hands that are now standing as part of a beautiful house frame that people get to enjoy for many years to come

IndyIan · « **Reply #11 on:** April 16, 2003, 08:34:55 AM »

Hi Greg,
I guess a 3 bent raising plan would be pretty simple, I didn't think of the wall girts first and then the plates. Makes sense though. I probably should get sobon's book with the raising plans anyways. I'm sure there are lots of things in there I could learn

Ian

sawinmontana · « **Reply #12 on:** April 16, 2003, 09:50:58 AM »

I know what you mean Ohsoloco. Two years ago I joined the TFG and when I got my first News letter there was an event planned in a little town about 90 miles from me. So I signed up to take the week long timber framing class. It was great I met some really great people from all over the country. We built a pavillion that was about 30x40.

Right now I'm saving the better logs for milling on the logging job I'm doing right now. Its 90% Doug Fir and 10% Western Larch. Out here most people call it Tamarack but I guess its really Western Larch. Anyway I'm going to build a 24x36 High posted cape. Right now I'm waiting for my neighbor to get here with his excavator. I'm trying to decide if I should add more track to our sawmill or buy a chainsaw mill to cut the few longer timbers I need.

Indylan, if I remember right when we built the shed out of Sobons book It was three bents. each bent was two posts and one connecting girt, each bent was stood up and braced and connected with wall girts then we slid the two wall plates up and set each in place then stood the rafters up. It was just my brother, his wife, and myself that cut and raised it. It would have been easier to have one more person for the raising.

Scott

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