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Anyone ever finish their own hardwood flooring?

Started by oakiemac, November 19, 2008, 11:00:04 PM

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srt

Oakie, 

I buy my shellac as flakes from Jeff at www.homesteadfinishing.com.  For some reason, I can't get their website to come up right now.  Never had a problem before, probably a temporary thing.  I've been buying from them for at least 6 years with no problems.  It's basically a mom-n-pop operation where pop is a finish applying expert, as well as a salesman.

Another option is to buy Zinzer's sealcoat, which is dewaxed.

There's a controversy among finishers as to wether or not you need to use "dewaxed" shellac.  The fellow I work with thinks the dewaxed thing is a bunch of bunk.  A friend who has been refinishing and selling high end antiques for about 50 years and happens to have a doctorate in chemistry also says it's bunk.  Just about every article I've ever read written by finishing experts, and those trying to sound like finishing experts says to use dewaxed. 

I choose to use dewaxed, because it basically costs the same and is one more thing that can't go wrong.

You can basically dewax regular shellac by just pouring off the waxy portion from the top.  Put the can in the fridge for a while and don't stir it to help separate the wax.   Or, do as my friend does and just use the shellac as it comes out of the can (except dilute it with alcohol, of course).


Here's an article about applying shellac.  Bear in mind they go into too much detail, as they are discussing using it on furniture.  It's not that technical.  I'd put it on with a brush or rag.

http://www.hardwoodlumberandmore.com/Finishing/Shellac/ApplyingShellac.html



Yes, a little real turpentine (not turpentine substitute) will help maintain a wet edge.  Again, thinner (alcohol) is by far your best friend.  Just don't let any sparks or flames around, it likes to ignite!

If you'r new to using it, I'd cut your first coat with thinner to achieve about a 1 pound cut (1 pound shellac flakes to 1 gallon of alcohol).  Normally, the shellac you buy premixed in the can is a 3 pound cut.  Brush it out on a sheet of plywood, or even cardboard to get used to it.

If you really, really, really screw up applying it, either let it dry and sand it well, or just wash it off with alcohol.  Can't screw it up!  Can't say the same for many finishes!

Scuff sanding is lightly sanding (generally with the grain) between coats of a finish.  For a floor, I'd use something like 320 grit, or maybe even some well worn 180 or 220.  If you get many "corns" building up on your paper, wait a bit longer to let the shellac get dryer.  In this step, you're only trying to find and remove the dirt, and other stuff that always finds its way into fresh finishes, and smooth out any rough finish spots.  Could scuff sand a 4X8 sheet in about 2 minutes by hand.

Have a good time!

scsmith42

I'm not an expert, but will share what I know.

Several years back, when we installed the heart pine floors in our home, I spoke with several installers about what was the most durable finish.

The consensus was an oil based polyurethane called "moisture cure".  It's used in high traffic areas such as shopping malls, etc.  It is supposed to continue to harden over time.

The other thing that I discovered is that poly finishes can be divided into two categories - those that yellow over time (standard poly) and those that don't (non-yellowing). 

Some of our then 15 year old oak floors had standard poly on them, and when we sanded it off and refinished it - Katy bar the door what a difference!  The refinished wood looked spectacular, the old finish is faded yellow. 

This alone convinced me to pony up the extra bucks for the non-yellowing finish.

We have four years of hard traffic (four dogs plus my work boots) on the floor and no complaints whatsoever regarding the finish or durability of the non-yellowing moisture cure poly. 
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

srt

Hi Scott, 

That sounds like Gorilla Glue in a finish form. 

I've used Gorilla glue a few times, and for the right application, it's great.

If my floors had held up that great, I'd be satisfied with what you used as well.

I googled moisture cure, and couldn't find a brand.  Do you by chance have the mfgr's name handy?

srt

Sprucegum

  8) SRT  Thank you for the essay. Its one of those gems of information that makes me glad I learned to read  :P

oakiemac

I agree with sprucegum, Thanks SRT for the information.

I think I'll buy some shellac and try it on a small area or some scraps and see how it works. I Googled shellac finishs and found a lot of info. It was used on floors for many years. I like the simplicity of the finish so I think I'll try it.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

Larry

Quote from: oakiemac on November 24, 2008, 08:05:42 PM
I'm using an old Stetson Ross 4 head moulder. Nice machine but it takes a while to set it up. I just found out today, after I have made all the flooring, that I ran the wood upside down thourgh the machine. The knives I bought were made for the face to be up and I ran it face down. Not much of a difference but I was told that the boards will fit together better if I run it right.

I have an even older Smithway XL which I think is basically the same as your Stetson Ross.  I'm thinking about putting it in service running flooring.  Any advice and where did you get knives?  Already learned to run it face up. :)


Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

scsmith42

Hi SRT.

Here are some links with general info and specific product info:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/epi/mcu-fact.shtml

http://www.harcocoatings.com/Docs/HARCO%20Clear%20Finishes.pdf

http://www.poolandmarinepaint.com/shop/index.php?action=item&id=159&prevaction=category&previd=21&prevstart=0

This stuff has a reputation for being about as tough as it gets, and one nice thing is that it continues to harden as it ages.  I understand that MCU's are used on bridges, ships, etc due to their durability.

Regards,

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

oakiemac

Larry, I got my knives from www.moldingknives.com I had no problems with them and they seem very knowledgeable.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

srt

Thanks Scott, 

I've emailed Harco to see where I can get a quart to try.  Here in Jersey (Nanny State), we can't get nasty stuff anymore.  Will probably have to go to Delaware .

srt

scsmith42

SRT- You're welcome!  Good luck trying it out.

One thing - be sure to use it in a well ventilated area, or even better yet - wear a ventilator.

Regards,

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

RSteiner

Quote from: thedeeredude on November 22, 2008, 10:08:41 PM
Has anyone ever used tung oil on floors?  I am getting some ash milled as we speak and was planning to use tung oil.

I just installed a plank oak floor made of 150+ year old barn board.  I finished the floor with tung oil.  The tung oil was thinned 1 to 1 with citrus solvent.  The floor took 6 applications before it stopped soaking in.  It could be waxed or top coated with any other sealer.  The tung oil did darken the oak a little and gave it a slight amber color.

The nice feature of the tung oil only is when the floor shows wear spots it only needs to be cleaned with water and some dish washing soap then a little more tung oil applied with a nylon stocking.  I have tried using tung oil on cherry and it did darken the cherry a bit more than I liked.

Randy
Randy

srt

Scott,
I understand the need to breath clean air.  In fact, a few years ago, I purchased a full face respirator that I hook up to a small oiless compressor.  There's no CO from the compressor, and I ain't breathing Nothin' off gassing from what I'm applying.  Don't do this with an oil lubricated compressor, according to my industrial hygenesist (sp?) friend.

scsmith42

SRT, it sounds like you've been around the block once or twice!  Thx for the info on the oilless compressor.

I enjoyed the photo's in your gallery; those glass double doors in particular really look nice. 

When you get some time, how about posting some additional pix?  It's always nice to admire great craftsmanship.

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

srt

Glad you liked the doors Scott.  I actually just got done building seven more mahogany doors for the same builder.  The new doors are very plain though - not nearly as impressive.

OK, I'll try to re-learn how to post pics, again.............

"Been around the block a few times" ..........  Why do I still have to keep stopping for directions?

Not really, I've just had the good fortune to have had a father who was an outstanding woodworker, and have worked with another outstanding woodworker for the past 13 years, and I read, read, read about it.  No original ideas, just re-hashing what others have said and done.


oakiemac

Well I finally got around to taking some pictures of the floor. Hopefully I can remember how to post them.
I still have not sanded or finished the floor. I ran out of time before the holidays hit so we decided to move the furniture back and finish it after the 1st of the year.





I will try to post some more pics when its completed
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

pigman

Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

oakiemac

Ok here is one more that shows more of the floor.





Notice the cute dog in bottom of photo ;D
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

wildtmpckjzg

My wife wants hardwood floors to replace the old vinyl in our kitchen.  So we're doing hardwood floors.  But the hardwood in the rest of the house expands and contracts with the seasons producing small cracks at various times, and I'm concerned that in the kitchen, the small cracks that might open between boards in the dry winter will make the floor hard to keep clean, and vulnerable to wet spills. Beyond the normal techniques of letting the wood acclimate in the house for several weeks before installation, and finishing with 3-4 coats of high-quality polyurethane, I'm thinking that it might make sense to backprime the wood with poly before installation.  Just one coat, to seal it, and presumably prevent the under surface from picking up seasonal humidity apartments for rent in Metn.  Obviously, I wouldn't prime the tongue-and-groove edges; the floor would still be laid and finished the normal way. The kitchen is over a full-height unfinished-but-heated basement. I've asked a number of friends and contractors, and nobody has ever heard of this being done.  Realizing that it will cost extra labor time to do it, I'm still inclined to backprime the boards as "insurance."  But does anyone know of a reason why this might be a bad idea?  Has anyone ever done this?

kelLOGg

Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

firefighter ontheside

Last year I made flooring to do my master bedroom.  I used 14 different species of wood to make the flooring.  I did not finish/seal the bottom of the boards, but I did lay down 15lb felt on the subfloor before I installed the floor.  I think that does the same thing you're wanting.  It protects the under side of the floor from humidity that might be coming from below.  I've never had any problem with expansion or contraction in any of my floors.  Of course winters are dry and most of the summer we are using AC.  The few months of the year when we are not really conditioning the house are not engouh to cause siginificant changes in the floors.  I'm curious how you are conditioning your home.  I can't think of any reason not to prime the bottoms.  

Here's my floor project.
My Master Bedroom Floor Project in General Woodworking
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
Stihl 025, MS261 and MS362
2017 F350 Diesel 4WD
Kawasaki Mule 4010
1998 Dodge 3500 Flatbed

trimguy

Over a " conditioned " space you should not need a vapor barrier. As long as you do not have high humidity in the basement. But I don't know of a reason that it would hurt to back prime it. Just make sure your floor is good and dry before you install it.

alan gage

Wider boards will result in wider cracks.  

Wetter boards will also result in larger cracks.

I put down 2-3" hardwood in my bedrooms and it was about 10%. It closes up in summer but has same gaps in the winter.

In my living room and kitchen I put down 4-6" boards that were at 8% and the cracks that open in winter are not as large as the narrower flooring that was wetter at install time.

I don't have a kiln so I stack and sticker wood in the basement during winter (heated with a wood stove so it's quite warm) to bring it down to 8% before taking it into the shop for final processing.

Don't guess on moisture. Spend a couple hundred on a moisture meter. You'll probably be surprised.

We get pretty humid during our iowa summers. I don't have ac but do run a couple dehumidifiers in the house during summer to keep it manageable. 


Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

beenthere

Oak flooring standard width (2+") was produced from boards dried to 5% and passed through the moulder. Came two months before ready to lay it down so I wrapped it tight as possible in poly and stacked (Dec '67) in the dining room while the rest of the house construction including heat and dry-walling was finished.
Laid it Feb 1968 and it has remained tight ever since. No cracks opening except down the hallway, as a result of happened I was a few square feet short, and a friend who had the same mill had extra stored in an attic. Unconditioned but we laid that down to finish the job. Those flooring strips are the only ones that have gaps.
Not advocating this same process of over-drying, but the last 54 years of having great hardwood oak flooring (still the original three coats of gym seal) has been a pleasure.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

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