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Splitting firewood in August for this winter-or bite the bullet and buy?

Started by Piston, August 10, 2011, 06:53:36 PM

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Piston

I bought a new soapstone woodstove last year and I didn't have my firewood completely seasoned, it did okay but I know I lost a lot of heat just burning off the moisture in the wood.  Last years firewood was stacked in the shade, in a damp location, probably the worst possible spot to stack firewood. 
This year, I have quite a few rounds ready for splitting, the problem is that some of that is white oak, so I KNOW that won't be seasoned enough to burn this year, but there is also some maple, hickory, and some ash. 

I will be splitting the wood in 2 weeks, I have probably 1 cord of really dry maple that will jump start me for the winter.
I'll have 3 cord of firewood for this winter, and will burn just about that. 

I'm wondering if it might be smarter for me to buy (i hate saying that  :D) a couple cord of seasoned wood from someone?  I know it is late in the season to be splitting firewood for this winter, but I procrastinated and that is where I'm at now.  I really HATE the thought of buying firewood because I have an unlimited supply (for my purposes) but do you think I don't really have a choice?  Or should I just split the wood I have, and mix in 2 pieces of not so seasoned wood, to 1 piece of very dry maple? 

-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Al_Smith

White oak splits rather easily unless you get a knotty piece .If you break it down smaller than normal it will dry faster but most likely not real good by this season of heating .Find some ash,it dries fast .Besides that with the EAB most of them are dead already .

Buck

Our conditions are a lot different but it would KILL me to buy firewood. I'd try the split small and mix trick and make it through.
Respect is earned. Honesty is appreciated. Trust is gained. Loyalty is returned.

Live....like someone left the gate open

Piston

I like where your going with this.  I think I'll try splitting the pieces smaller than normal and try my best to mix in some of the driest wood with any that may be marginal. 
I really don't want to buy firewood and I never have to this point, but one of the reasons I am hesitant is because I don't know when the supplier split his wood either.  He could have cut a tree down 2 yrs ago and not bucked and split it until now, and call that seasoned....
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

Al_Smith

 :D Oh it would pain me immensely to buy firewood also .I'd pay the electric bill first I think .

You know living in the boondocks and being resourcefull it's never been a problem .I can see however around a large metropolitan area it could be although myself living in such an area would be highly unlikely .Never say never though because strange things have been known to happen .

John Mc

A lot depends on how much labor you are willing to put into it. Oak is probably one of your worst bets for quick drying. Ash is on eof the best -fresh cut, Ash has the least moisture of all the commonly burned hardwoods. Stick with that as much as possible, and save the Oak and Maple for next year if you can.

If it's been cut to stove length for a while, and stored in a decent manner, it may be better off than you think.

Tips for best drying:

  • if not already cut to length, cut it on the short side, and split it smaller.
  • stack it off the ground, up on pallets or one poles/saplings laid parallel on the ground. The idea is to avoid wicking moisture from the ground, and to promote better air circulation around the stack
  • stack in a single row, with the end facing south, exposed to the sun and prevailing winds. You want max heat (sun) and wind (to carry evaporated moisture away, thus facilitating pulling more moisture out of the logs). Stacking multiple rows right next to each other in an enclosed wood shed is NOT what you want for best drying. If space constraints forces you to do multiple rows together, try to leave at least a couple feet between rows - more space is better
  • don't worry so much about covering at first... that's more important as it gets closer to being ready to burn. You might gain a bit by covering the top only, when you expect rain, but fir best drying, you'd want to uncover it on good days. If you are not going to cover and uncover repeatedly, leave the cover off for best air circulation and sun exposure.
  • as you get closer to the burning season, consider covering it, or restacking it in your wood shed - but don't cover the sides. Since you are getting a late start, you are still likely losing moisture from the wood, so you still want to promote good air flow
  • don't count on losing a lot of moisture in the wood once the temperature of the wood pile gets below freezing... yes, the relative humidity tends to be lower in the winter (at least in my area), but once th ewater in the wood is frozen, you won't get much movement of the interior moisture. What you lose will tend to be mostly surface moisture. Since the water isn't pure, it won'te freeze exactly at 32 F, but too much below that and you won't get much drying.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Piston

I'm willing to put in the labor and I'll do exactly as suggested.  Last year, over the winter, while having a difficult time getting some wet wood to burn, I promised myself I wouldn't let this happen again!  :D :D

Well, here we are, and it's happening again.....This time I mean it though.  I figure I'll go through 3 cord in the winter (we still use heat so we're not fully heating with wood) so I need to split and stack a MINIMUM of 6 cord soon!  That way I'll have next winter's wood dry when the time comes.  I'll do as suggested and save the oak for that. 

I can't say it's an excuse, but I bought a new tractor and sold my old one, and the new one didn't have hydraulics on it.  I finally got around to adding a 4 spool valve which I will use for my splitter.  I haven't plumbed it in yet but have the parts on order, so once that is plumbed in, I will be able to use my splitter. 
I know I could be splitting by hand, and probably should be given my age and energy, but once you start using a splitter it's hard to go back to the maul. 

I do have a good area to stack single rows of firewood and also have a good source for free pallets.  I'll make a couple trips to stock up on pallets. 

-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

jdonovan

you can also make some quick-er drying stacks for the wood you will use early in the season.

stack two split pieces in a N-S line. Then on top of that two pieces in an E-W. Same general way you build end-of pile stacks. Place these piles 1-2 feet apart, in an open and sunny area and they will dry fast. It takes up a lot of space, but you really need to get it dry fast if you are going to use it this year.

Also if you are going to be burning green-ish wood, make sure to keep an eye on your chimney for creosote formation and if you are getting build up, have the chimney cleaned mid-season.

stumper

Don't ask me how I know but in addition to all above I suggest adding a second pile of wood in the house.  Fill the second pile with the wood that needs seasoning.  Use the dry wood in the normal pile until the wet wood is seasoned then burn it and reload with more wet wood.  You will be surprised by how quickly the wood will season in a very dry house in the winter.  Especially if the temperatures in the house flucuate.  Colder at night and while at work warmer when home and awake.

I am not a fan of mixing wet with good as you still need to boil the moisture off to burn it and that is lost heat.

John Mc

Quote from: stumper on August 11, 2011, 08:51:32 AM
... I suggest adding a second pile of wood in the house.  Fill the second pile with the wood that needs seasoning.  ... You will be surprised by how quickly the wood will season in a very dry house in the winter.  Especially if the temperatures in the house flucuate.  Colder at night and while at work warmer when home and awake.

Some good ideas, but two things to be careful of: 1) make sure the stuff you are bringing inside isn't infested with bugs.  2) if the wood is very green, there's a good chance of starting mold, especially if in an area that does not have good ventilation/airflow... You don't want to start getting mold growing in your house. It can cause some real health concerns.

QuoteI am not a fan of mixing wet with good as you still need to boil the moisture off to burn it and that is lost heat.

If you have no choice but burn some green wood, it's better to mix it to bring down the average moisture content of the charge you are burning, than to burn one dry charge and one wet one (though it does work better to start your stove on a good charge to get things hot first). This assumes that your "wet wood" is at least partially dried. That freshly cut oak or maple log is not going to burn efficiently even if you do mix it with dry wood.

Also, there is such a thing as too dry for optimal burning. Kiln-dried lumber is one such example. If you have some KD scraps, mixing them with the "semi-dry" stuff may be a good way to get a decent charge.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Piston

How about pine?  I have plenty of pine already on the ground a lot of scraps from the mill.  I know the arguments for and against pine, but if it is dry I figure it will create less creosote than wet hardwood.  I know the btu value is very low but at least it would be dry wood. 
I won't burn nothing but pine, but when I put say 5 sticks in the woodstove, I could put one dry hardwood, 2 dry pines, and 2 wet hardwoods? 
ALthough, that seems like too much sorting of wood  :D
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

thecfarm

Will be a way to get rid of your pine. I suppose you mean white pine,EWP? The pine will burn hot and fast,but it can be done. With my OWB,a TOTTALY different way to burn wood,the EWP works great,not so good in the wood stove I had. You can burn it,just takes twice as much as hard wood. Mixing it is the only way to really do it. Pine will last 2 hours,where good hardwood would last probably twice that long. Just depends on how much time you want to invest in filling your stove. I don't mind,gives me a way to get rid of it. All the pine I was cutting is called Scrub Pine. Goes up 4-6 feet and crotches out 2-4 times and I'm surprised it even makes straight smoke as crooked as it is.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Ianab

Dry pine burns perfectly OK.

Per lb it's about the same as hardwood, but of course it only weighs about 1/2 as much, so you will need twice as many cords. But if you have mill slabs of it laying about, saw em up and let them dry for a while. Small stuff like mill slabs would be OK to burn in a few months if you got it stacked up in a warm breezy spot.

Mix it with the semi-dry hardwood and you will be able to keep a decent fire burning. OK the pine wont last as long in the fireplace, but that's not a deal stopper.

90% of the firewood used here in NZ would be pine, but of course it's not super cold in the winters here, so we don't need the maximum heating. Heck we burn cypress and cedar here too... If you are desperate you can even burn that green, but a few months drying does help.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Piston

Yes that's correct, I mean EWP.  I have quite a bit of it, in fact if I have plenty to heat my house all winter with it on the ground right now, just not split and stacked.  My wife and I tend to not really go anywhere in the cooler months and spend a lot of time just hanging out at home, cooking, 'playing' outside in the snow, or whatever, so I don't think the short time between loads will be too much of a problem. 

I'm actually pretty excited now to burn the pine.  It's funny, I always used to think of EWP as a 'trash' tree.  As in I didn't think it was good for anything.  Then I got interested in Timberframing, then milling, then learned the great qualities of it and thought it was great for everything except burning, and now I'm starting to think I'll like it for burning. 

I probably won't do full loads of pine as mentioned earlier, maybe half and half or something similar. 

I love this site!  ;D
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

doctorb

To answer this topic's question.....I would be worried if I needed a lot of heat this winter via my gasifier OWB if I had just split and stacked green wood.  On the other hand, the state of Maryland reportedly only requires wood be "seasoned" for 2 months to be sold as cured firewood, or so I've been told.

So, to be scientific, before I "bit the bullet" and bought firewood on the assumption that it should be appropriately seasoned, I might take my moisture meter over to the seller and see exactly what I was buying.  If it was still pretty wet, I'd put up with the less than optimal free fuel before purchasing wood that was only marginally better.

To avoid the conundrum in the future, put up as much as you need for next winter now and throughout the fall, so you won't have to ask this question again! ;D
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

Piston

QuoteTo avoid the conundrum in the future, put up as much as you need for next winter now and throughout the fall, so you won't have to ask this question again!

My plan exactly..... ;D

No excuses from here on out! 
-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

brendonv

I'm shooting myself in the foot here too.  I have a bit of wood to start splitting, and have only two cords or so of green stuff split so far.  Looks like I'll be sifting through the pile for dead trees and Ash I took down.  

"Trees live a secret life only revealed to those that climb them"

www.VorioTree.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vorio-Tree-Experts-LLC/598083593556636

wesdor

I have a metal building with a concrete floor.  So far there are 4 pallets (3' x 4') stacked 5' high with split wood. The wood has been down since last year, but not sure how much it has actually dried.  If a cord is 128 cubic feet (4x4x8) then I figure each pallet is nearly half a cord.  Temperatures inside get to 115 degrees on a hot day and routinely close to 100 degrees most other days in the summer. 

It sounds like you don't have a way to keep the wood inside, but in my situation I'm thinking this will make the wood ready to burn. 

Like others, it would kill me to buy firewood.  I'd rather pay the propane bill before buying wood. 

John Mc

Two of the main keys to rapid drying of wood are heat and air flow.

It sounds as though your metal building has the heat. The next question would be does it have the air flow to carry the moisture away from the wood pile. (Otherwise, the relative humidity in the area of the wood pile will go up as moisture comes out of the wood, slowing further drying and possibly causing mold growth on the wood.)

If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

wesdor

Good point on the airflow.  I think I'll aim a couple of box fans at the piles and run them.  There is pretty ample space around the pallets, but likely not enough airflow

Thanks for pointing that out

Al_Smith

Well I stack it 8 feet wide and 4 feet high in as many as 7 cords in a stack and I've never had a problem getting it dry .3 rows cut in 16" lengths is one cord that way .

It will dry if you just toss it in heap .Now the problem with that is the groundhogs will tunnel below it.The chipmunks will live within it and possibley a family of skunks on occasion .

Early in the morning the red tail hawks will be hopping around on top of it searching out a nice chipmunk for breakfast .Seems they prefer those to skunks for some reason .

clww

I'm still cutting, splitting and stacking it for this winter. As written before, I'd recommend splitting it smaller/lighter, single-row where it gets the maximum amount of air and sunlight. I'd also stack it up like a log cabins walls for maximum exposure and air circulation. Anything that I split green from here on out will not be sold or burned by me until February 2012. I stack the oldest wood closest to the house/gate and take pictures periodically when I'm putting it up so I can keep track of dating how long it has seasoned. I'm hoping to have 40 cords in my back yard before our first frost here in early November.
Another thing you can do is mix the newer wood with the seasoned stuff when you're burning it. At night, I put the newer wood on the fire before heading off to bed. 
Many Stihl Saws-16"-60"
"Go Ask The Other Master Chief"
18-Wheeler Driver

John Mc

You're lucky, clww. You probably still get some decent drying in Virginia beach for a good bit of the winter. In my area, they drying slows dramatically in the winter (water just doesn't move much within the wood when it's frozen solid).
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Piston

-Matt
"What the Lion is to the Cat the Mastiff is to the Dog, the noblest of the family; he stands alone, and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed his temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race."

submarinesailor


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