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How would you approach this considering I am using a backhoe. The boat is a 12ft john boat.  The Peninsula is the original dig spoil pile. Im. Going to drag the top off that flat and leave it about a foot higher than high level, and about 12'-14'  wide.


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This is where I want create a hill that separates the view from the field to the south, the direction the boat is pointing is more southeast


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My first question is if you have a good trash pump to evacuate water from your hole. It will make digging easier until you make the connection to your existing pond.

Great point. My feeble brain never thought of pumping as it struggled with what if water. The pond is basically a big swale. You get rain and, much of the front property runs that way.

I assume you want to clean out the existing pond after so dig the extension deep so it can hold all the water and fish and frogs.  It may not seal off for a while.  but you can add clay to help.  (bentonite).

How deep are you going to go. I know you plan on digging it yourself but if you could get a local guy with a big excavator in for one day then you fine tune and move the dirt that would be a big help but if not get some long days in and getter done 

use the backhoe to break it up and the bucket to scoop it and move it. Make sure you have something to pull you out when you get stuck.

I would probably try to create a trench from one end of the area to the other wide enough to drive the FEL through.  The walls will always be caving in to assist you in the removal.  You can shave off dirt from the sides with the bucket making the trench wider and wider.  Go down a couple of feet for each layer and repeat.

If you have a trench through it, you can scoop up dirt and keep on going around to where you want to dump it to make the hill.  And if you get stuck going one way, you can always try to go the other way to get out.

I dig ponds up here with a small (26 ton) lattice boom P&H crane with a 3 yard dragline bucket. Do the wet side and dry without get'in stuck.

Reading the title I thought you were figuring out how to run Cat and Deere control pattern. ;D

A lot of the excavator guys online will dig the new section of pond, and leave a wall/dam between the new and old pond. Once everything is dug and graded to their liking, they "open the flood gates". 

Back when I was a kid around here they would build ponds just with a dozer. They'd scrape out the center, and make a bowl shape with the dirt pushed up onto the banks. Tracking and packing as they went, and grading a flat path circling around the top.

How deep do you plan to dig it?

I'd like to have a spot about 8-9 feet deep so it can support inhabitants that find it in the winter, but mostly 3 or 4 like the rest of the pond. I have zero fill for leveling trails, so that eventually can go there. First order of business is to groom the dirt piles around the pond. Heck, after doing that, I may want to leave it that while and see how that goes. Ive got no agenda.

Doing that other work first is a good idea, as then you will be able to better assess what you and that hoe can accomplish. Two wheel drive and wet slimy clay are not a good combination. 
If you find you are able to move around good, with a good bucket full of dirt, yer well on yer way ta a new pond extension.

Footage from when I took the pics above the pond.

A Remote U.P. Cabin kind of Monday - YouTube (https://youtu.be/MZ1ydeS3ZR8)

There are a couple of ways to approach digging that with a backhoe. Without being there to assess ground conditions I'm just shooting in the dark though.  First option is start along the future peninsula digging parallel to the pond bank casting your spoils 90 degrees to the side away from the pond. Make this a 10 foot wide trench to the final depth you want making sure to leave a dam between the existing pond and your new excavation. Then you bucket your spoils pile to the berm area near the field.  Repeat as many times as needed to get desired width.  The other way is much the same except you start at the farthest point away from your future berm and dig perpendicular to the existing pond bank, casting spoils 90 degrees towards the berm.  Remember to leave the "dam" between you and the existing pond. Whichever method you use, you need to keep the backhoe on the highest (hardest) ground you have when you're transporting material with the front bucket.  Also try not to travel the same path every time. The more you run in the same tracks,  the more you risk making ruts and getting stuck. Be sure to start this project during your dry season.  When I used to live in the North Country of upstate new York that meant August/September.  
If ground water becomes a problem dig a 2 foot deep sump in your lowest area and pump from there to a point downhill of your work area.

Getting to know the machine by taking the spoils and widening the dyke to a safer flater width for a tractor. A little hairy. I'm used to articulating machines that turn much differently.

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I'm by no means a pro but I've messed around with my pond some and with digging holes in the yard. If it were me, and I may get it wrong, I'd be starting as close to the existing pond as possible while still leaving enough material to not let the existing side fill in the new side. Pointing the hoe in the same direction as the boat (in your first pictures) I'd be digging to depth parallel along the new peninsula and dropping dirt to the right, then occasionally moving your big pile of dirt to where you want the new hill to be (looks to be a straight shot), basically going straight into that pathway for the hill, all the way to the far end of it (the top end of the orange in your 6th picture, but really either path, top end or bottom end of the orange would work), then back out back to your pile. Depending on the height of the hill you'll need a lot of loader buckets full of dirt. You can either create the hill by a lot of short layers that you drive over to dump more but I'd probably dump to the hill height you want, smash it all down as possible with the hoe side, then repeat a lot of times. If your material is wet the layers won't work very well, as you'll be rutting it out as you drive over it.

You'll have to figure out where you want your deep end to be. Here, in my yard, things start getting soggy around 6-8 feet deep but I don't know that I'd want to be driving on material 4 or 5 feet deep, and that's only when things are dry dry. I'd want to stay as high and dry as I could and end up moving around a lot to cover small but sufficiently deep spots. I'm usually digging a hole 10+ feet deep and probably 15' wide by 8-10' across in a couple hours, then moving the pile, then doing it again. The dirt from that size hole doesn't cover as much lateral ground as you may expect. I've covered the barn floor (40' x 48') in about a foot and a half deep dirt and it's likely taken 100 trips? I didn't count but it was much more than I expected, then it needed compacted and added to.

If you haven't learned it yet you should practice changing machine positions by using the hoe bucket instead of driving it to a new spot. Keep your stabilizers about 6" off the ground, lift your loader bucket a little, and lift the hoe side with the hoe bucket and slowly move the bucket to the side to change your angle of attack. You should also practice dragging the machine or pushing the machine with the hoe. When you are stuck on your belly (and you will be!) it will be very important to get used to the feel of moving the machine around with the hoe. I've been stuck enough that I've had to lift the machine very high out of a hole and it can be terrifying. With your 4 stick machine (I think!) and foot controlled swing (I think again!) you should really get used to using them without jerking things around, especially that swing (remember that lower rpms can be your friend too to help make things a bit more controllable). You'll want very slow, controlled movements, otherwise the machine feels like it'll tip over. I've also learned the hard way that wet ground doesn't give much ability to drag your way out of sticky situations. You'll reach out with the hoe bucket and it'll just pull the wet dirt toward you, and not give any firm purchase with which to drag yourself out. I really can't emphasize this paragraph enough, you'll get stuck. It could get scary. I've spent hours unsticking myself before. I've broken 4000 lb. chains trying to unstick. Out in the middle of nowhere you'll be the only help you have to get free. The last time I got stuck I had to use the loader edge to push myself while using the hoe to pull at the same time, and using the stabilizers to set down on any firm piece of ground to keep from sliding back into my ruts. Wear your seatbelt!

This is a fun project!

And do be mindful of edges and collapsing the banks. They are kind of clumsy to drive, but those scoops make it worthwhile. its looking good. i like to have a whack of 2x material around soft ground.

those are highly valuable slabs, any port in a storm  :)

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Ya know, Don P, I have some decent piles of wood sitting around and I'd never thought to use them to unsink me... Thank you for that note. I have thought of sheets of plywood to drive on to avoid sinking or ruts. 

Looks like a great summer project.  popcorn_smiley

I'd use the same approach as Patrick NC. I want my backhoe to stay as high and dry as possible at all times. I'd start at one end of the dike and dig a  trench parallel to it, putting the spoils to the side away from the dike and moving forward 5-10 feet at a time until I hit the other end. Carry the spoils away, then park where the spoils last were and repeat the process. This is not a one weekend project, so unless the ground is sandy and high and dry (what pond is?) the hole is likely going to fill with water over time. If you're lucky, the water level will stay low in the new hole, but more likely it will rise to match the existing pond level. If you can dig a (temporary) drainage ditch to a lower area to allow it to drain while the hole is being dug, great! If not, then plan on a trash pump. You will have little to no success trying to dig the pond if it's full of water. And if you have an empty 4' deep hole next to where you are parked digging and placing the spoils, your chances of not getting stuck improve. Advantage of starting next to the dike is that you can quit at any point, cut the dam and let the larger pond fill. If you start at the far side, you are committed to digging the whole hole before you have a bigger pond.

I suggest having several railroad ties handy. When you sink beyond pulling yourself out with the hoe, or pushing yourself out with the bucket, put one under the bucket and use downpressure to lift your front wheel out of a hole. Put one under each stabilizer to lift the rear wheels out of their holes. Then lay a few under the wheels and drive out over top of them. Rinse and repeat to solid ground. And remember - every trip over the same path softens it more. If you wondered if you would make it through on that last pass - DON'T try that route again! I've sunk 4x4 backhoes well below the belly pans, so believe me - thinking "just one more load" is asking for trouble.

You guys are all giving me some great advice!! Thankyou!!

You will know your machine well at the end of the project. :)

And it's likely you will know new and creative ways of getting un stuck.  I put a couple of heavy duty "D" rings on my excavator so I always have a place to hook to. It only makes it worse when you are stuck and have to dig out a place on the machine to hook a chain. 

Keep in mind that timber mats that are of a size your hoe can lift and move could be very helpful. Will depend on just how versitile your hoe is and your soil conditions. 

Might be able to saw some up, but think you (Jeff) have past experience with them on your trails. iirc

If you have suitable hard dirt that will compact under the top soil I would start at the end (furthest point) were you want the have the dirt go and dig off the top soil and put to one side with the rear bucket as you make your way to the pond extension. Then set aside a strip of topsoil two backhoe widths wide for the pond and dig a strip one width wide of subsoil to pond depth and put it on the next stripped part to fill it in as you go along once that is filled in use the rest to start building your road to the place were the dirt will go by digging with the back bucket then pushing it to the stripped road area with the front. Repeat until pond is desired width. Doing it this way you will only travel on topsoil a few times while digging it off then will be on hard pan the rest. The last step would be to move the top soil with the front bucket.

I'm putting a video together of the work I did today that may give a better idea of the lay of the land.

 I'm going to go to the far end of where I want the pond and dig a deep test hole to see what I have to work with.

First Day, First Project. New Experience. Working with a Backhoe. - YouTube (https://youtu.be/x3kPphMz3ik)

That looks like FUN!  As you say "Every day is a new idea."
I like that phase.  

Robert, as far as I know that is the first time my brain ever put those words together. I like it too. :)

I always say 'tomorrow is another day', which to me, means the same thing, it will look different to me tomorrow. But I like you phrasing better. Too bad it's too late to steal it, it yours now. :) :D

I'm sure your sister will be impressed. Looking good!

Yes, make a video. 
I wished I would have taken more of all the projects I have done here. 
I've only just started to take my advice.
It's interesting to look back on how it was and how it is.
Good luck with The Dig.

Agreed cfarm. My wife is a monster of getting things done and yard transformations, with her, can happen very quickly but she doesn't ever think to take pictures along the way. I try to remember for her but often forget. It's neat to see what things look like before, during, and after.

Good video Jeff! A tough lesson, if you haven't figured it out already is getting your hoe hoses stuck or cut by or on tree branches. Beware! Also, you are making me think it'd be nice to have one of those rakes for the tractor, looks pretty slick. 

That rake has been a great tool. 

Testing! Testing!!  I went out and dug a proper hole to see what was really down there. We have over 2" of rain potential by Tuesday, so no time to start a dig in ernest. Normal years it would never be this dry this time of year. I'll be waiting for an extended forecast calling for zero rain for a week.

Digging for Valuable Clues. - YouTube (https://youtu.be/IPF1gou6H5A)

When you quit work for the day and leaving that hole the way it was I had the same thought about it being a wildlife trap. Glad you fixed that. The alternative is to dig a long ramp on one end of the hole so that anything that falls in could walk out. That would give you some practice on shaping the sides which will come up soon anyway.

 Are you going to make the whole pond that deep? Varying the depth might make the fish habitat better with a few deep holes for wintering over.
 I love watching the 'Jeff's summer project' video because I know in a few months you will have it nearly done and I learn a lot during your journey.

Good to see clay for building a pond. smiley_thumbsup
I agree with OG, if you ever get an animal that ends up in a hole, dig a ramp. Also when doing a large dig for safety they'll dig a bench on the side, to step down into the hole. This also helps minimize the high wall caving off.

I wish I had a transit. I'd probably start by shaping new banks to just above the current water level before  I even start to dig for any depth. I've also noted that that bowl has a pretty good layer of top soil that could be used elsewhere, but I can just imagine what a slippery surface with just a touch of rain it would become if it was graded off.

That hole was 12ft long, the width of the bucket, and 8-9ft deep. The video before time lapse of the actual digging was 23 minutes.

Were you able to come up with a trash pump?

Not yet, but I have no intentions of starting to start actually digging yet.

One thing I noted as I was digging. If I had someone there with a tracked skid steer moving the dirt as I pulled it out, things would go fast.

I am for hire :) Just get me a machine and a time :)

I believe the black soil is the regular ground material of your area that has had organic vegetation in it, that has rotted to make it black.
Maybe someone who know more about that than me can say if I'm right or not.

Jim Rogers

glad you filled it back for now.  A couple day push when you are ready will work.  you may want to skim the top soil off and pile separately to use sparingly where you need it.  The clay is good news for sealing up the new pond.  A track loader working with you is a good idea.  they move while working faster and can help clean up the final shape.  If the majority of the fill needs to move a ways then a small dump truck would help.  there is no hurry but for the rains that will make extra work to pump out.  I dug mine with just a skid steer in the day so the slope helps you get in and out.  a track loader can float on top of soil and packs it rather than making ruts and getting stuck.  you will want a day when you break the dam so you can try to get all the wildlife transferred to the new hole.  may have a few or many fish needing moved if they do not go with the flow.  the extendable boom with help when you then clear the bottom of the old pond to a similar depth of the new pond area.  you can reach the slime without "standing in it".  wish I lived closer. 8)

Rent a dozer for me to help and I'll pay my own way. :D

can you give the dimensions of the new dig area and the depth plan and the total yards of removal can be estimated.  it may help you plan for how long this might take and if it makes sense to have additional equipment and help.

I you don't have access to a transit. Consider making a water level. All you need is a long length of clear tubing. Set one end fixed to a stake and fill with water. The water in the tube will be at the same elevation no matter where it is. If nothing else it gives you a point of reference to measure off of. Tubing is way cheaper than a transit and you can use it by yourself.

My brother used a hand held transit to get things close doing road construction.  I have two transits, a laser and a manual one.  you can buy clear tubes that adapt to a garden hose ends and the pond water may be easier to see than clear.  I have a set of those you could borrow, but may cost more to ship than buy.  you could just fill the pond and the low spots will become obvious.   :)


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these are both under 20 bucks.

[qutoe]I wish I had a transit[/quote]

Picked up a transit with tripod on CL a few years back for $75.

But a hand held site level to shoot a level line for elevations are pretty reasonable and fit in the pocket. 

link to such a tool in Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Level-Pocket-Handheld-Elevation-Surveying/dp/B098PC4QPK

If you rent a dozer for Bill, better make sure you get all the extra insurance you can. ;D :D

 But actually that made me think of something, since you are going to do a nice job digging it out and shaping it, have you considered putting in a dry hydrant while you are in there? It's just the pipe and some fittings, plus a good screening system on the intake side. Lots of insurance companies will lower rates for homeowners that have a pond with a dry hydrant for fire fighting purposes. As another benefit, you could put a pump on it to fill a raised tank and water the gardens. Just pump it up once a month or so and gravity feed to water. 
 Local fire departments are always looking for reliable water sources in rural areas so they don't have to truck water in so far. I'm pretty sure you don't have a hydrant district there, do you? (Comes in handy for dozer fires too. ;D)

Raider Bill - I'm gonna guess that some critical thinkers around here think that you and dozers spell trouble. 
Ahem, like . . . what's up with that sir?

I used a line level and string to dig foundation footings once, (32'x36') when the concrete contractor showed up I told him what I used and he let out a sigh and rolled his eyes. After he set up his transit and checked that it was fine he would not believe me until I got the level out of my pocket.

I later got a water level that had a small clear line (motorcycle fuel line size) and a container (2 pint) on one end, with the larger difference in size from the container to hose it works better as it does not move as quickly or take as long to settle. I would hang the container on a stake and tape the other end of the line to a stick then put the stick to the level you want and mark the water level in the line on the stick then when you dig and reach the right level the water lines up with the line on the stick.

I was around 13 or 14 when Dad was building a new house where an old millers house had stood. The current owner was rebuilding the dam while we worked on the house. I shared a lot of lunches with stray dogs there that summer, it was a popular dropoff spot. 

They were pulling the accumulated silt out from the old millpond and sank the dozer, then another. By the end it took a big wrecker and everyone paddle wheeling. He also had an old 12 cylinder Packard touring car in the shed, I guess roaring 20's era, that was cool

No need for a dry hydrant as Lake Huron next door to him has lots of water.  ;D  Plus I doubt anyone would want to drive a truck down next to his pond in order to connect a hard suction line.

I got da dozer, and da dump truck, but I'm on the other coast of da UP.  Jeff, you got access to a laser level. It don't have to be nothing fancy, make yourself a story pole, and just wait for evening,

The handheld is the same. make a pole and make 0 at your eye height and then go up and down with 1-inch increments and make the 1-foot marks so you can read it or have someone put a finger in it and tell them up or down.  What all do you need to find?  if it is just to see the bank height around the pond it should not be hard, and you can build up a few low spots, if the pond is getting too big, or allow a spill over area if it goes in the right direction.

Quote from: chet on June 09, 2023, 06:51:09 PM
No need for a dry hydrant as Lake Huron next door to him has lots of water.  ;D  Plus I doubt anyone would want to drive a truck down next to his pond in order to connect a hard suction line.

How far is the lake? More than 3 or 4 miles is a bit too much. I'll bet if there is a fire at Jeff's cabin they will get something to that pond to pull water with a direct feed to the fire. I have done this more than a few times. In winter, when there is no dry hydrant, you have to cut a hole in the ice and that takes a lot of time. Also, consider that the hydrant outlet does not have to be at the edge of the pond, it can be a good deal away, provided the grading is right.
 When installing a dry hydrant, it's best to talk to your FD, let them take a look and run a drill to test it. Good FD's will keep accurate notes on their district and know where they are, how to get to them, and how much water they can pull from a source. I know we did, but most were draft sites, not hydrants.  If you've put together a tanker relay with a source 3 miles form the fire and done the math, you know how many tankers it takes to support a constant water flow at 2,000 GPM. Most rural areas can't muster up than many tankers, or at least not quickly. I know this may not be a fit for what Jeff has, but I mention it for others reading. Water sources for rural departments are a real challenge, much more so than anybody would think.

OG, take my word for it, Jeff's site is not practical for a dry hydrant for fire dept use. I recently retired from our fire dept. with over 30 years. I personally installed or supervised the installation of more than 50 such hydrants in ours and neighboring districts. Natural water sources in the UP are never really that far away from where there might be a population area. Where dry hydrants shine here is in winter; a natural water source next to a plowed road that you can make a quick connection to with a large capacity hard suction line. As opposed to trudging thru deep snow carrying 1 or more pumps, soft hoses, a hard suction, and a saw or auger. And then after that only being able to supply back to an apparatus with only a 2" line. Also small bodies of water are not ideal other than moving water, unless they are pretty deep. That way the hydrant tubes can be up from the bottom to avoid silt and still be below the frost line.

OK, I'll take your word for it. I haven't been there and have no idea of the area resources or the fire response capabilities.
 HOWEVER, folks read and learn things here on the forum and file them away. AT some later date they find themselves in a  position where that information is pertinent and they go look it up again. I put that information in there for those folks because it may help somebody down the road. After all your experience in the Fire Service I am pretty sure you know that a big part of the job is public education and there is no better place than this to do it.
 That's all I'm saying. Help folks help themselves.

That is exactly why I tried to explain why it was not a practical solution in all situations.  :)

Got a little a little greasy today. Burlkraft and I were fixing the weak points found when digging my test hole. That was the goal. To test me, the soil, and the Hoe. I replaced 2 lines, one leaking and one goona leak. There is one more there that is an eventual goona leak, but I spent all I bared to spend for one day. We also replaced an o-ring in a fitting.

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It's good to get it done now before you go wild digging 💪

Jeff, take a look at the last picture you posted. I'm hoping that is just something hanging just to the right of your new hoses. It looks like a big diagonal crack in the casting. Or was it made like that?

I went and took a look to be sure, no issues beyond the new knot on my head for standing up and hitting the top of my head on the dipper.  dadgum you, Charlie! 

Jeff, those hit HURT! I caught a 4ft level to the head today, and a whack to my not funny bone. And, its still light out so I may get at least 1 more injury!

Jeff, those hand held sight levels like Doc linked are pretty cheap and work great. I used one all the time when I worked on a grading crew, even just using it standing and sighting to a common reference point I could easily get +/-1" accuracy. 

I was going to try and scrape off some top soil, but its full off tag alder stumps. Looks like mostly hoe work. I gave the loader hydraulics a workout, and once again, found the newest weak point.


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Looks like you figgered it out before emptying the tank. For some reason I always have to pull the lever again to be sure. Anymore that's a $10 bill or better.

I just got a hose a little longer than that length for 107.00 :(

$67.

Today my little pond started to get bigger. I'm cleaning and shaping the area first where I plan on joining the pond to the pond extention. I found that digging in the existing pond was not to disturbing for the critters. Right away minnows were there investigating, and last night the edge where I was digging was full of tadpoles and frogs already.

Expanding our Little Pond with a Backhoe. Part 1. Existing Edge Maintenance. - YouTube (https://youtu.be/Oq5E6XmroHM)

I've seen a guy about loose a D8 on wet ground near a water source. Had to fish it out with a heavy excavator. :D Couldn't see where he was at with 8 foot high canary grass.

Gettin' the hang of it!  smiley_thumbsup
I can see where the E-hoe comes in handy for reaching out to where your dredging.
One thing I used to do working in soft material, is drag the full bucket towards the tractor some as I was lifting up. This in effect plows more material up and out of the hole with the same motion. (Don't know if that's the best technique, but it's what I'd do).

Looking forward to part 2.

I gotta say I'm a bit jealous of that pond, Jeff. It looks like you've got beautiful water and beautiful material to hold all the water in. Mine has some clay but has leaks like crazy. I don't know if you have much water loss through the year but beware, as I was digging some of my (existing) pond I found that I would make deep spots along the edge, so as my pond dries out in the summer there are what look like craters a few feet in, where I couldn't reach the deepest spots with the hoe, to make a smooth transition from deep to shallow. Probably fixable at some point but I get puddles instead of a consistent smooth ground. I also don't know that that really matters, just a heads up.

This video clip is part 2 of my work to expand our little woodland pond. Today's task was to dig some dry material to add to the wet fill in a low area. I also began to shape the Peninsula where Tammy wants me to build a screened Gazebo. That is a bit down the road I'd say. So far Justine in working well. That is my Backhoe's first name. Justine Case.
:)
Expanding our Little Pond with a Backhoe. PART 2!! Defining the Peninsula. - YouTube (https://youtu.be/So53tVGkJ_w)

And just like that already, part 3 of expanding da Yooper pond!!

Expanding our Pond. Love to dig!! Part 3. - YouTube (https://youtu.be/V99LupoVOqQ)

BEFORE PICTURE!!


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Man Jeff, you're making huge improvements with your property. You can proceed knowing all the hard work that goes into beautifying your property adds significant value to the land. Not only will you enjoy the place that much more, but it'll be worth more at the same time.  8) I guess that's the epitome of "sweat equity"

This is way too much fun.


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Did you do anything to the water to go from muck to that lovely blueish? Mine will get very clear if I can keep water in it but it's never that color!

The spring fed ponds around here were always clear. Some places if the water is fed by a bog  it will be as black a coffee. :D Only time I've seen blue green was when algae was in it.

It is a dye packet from tractor supply that is supposed to inhibit algae growth. I got a good amount of digging done today, but Im thinking I may have to hire or rent a skid steer. 

Maybe check with the guy that mulched for you

I was planning on it if he ever shows up here. I have an area behind the cabin I want mulched to put fill in to  store the sawmill and backhoe.

Looks like you are enjoying your land!!

I use the pond dye too, helps cut down on the yuck that grows and doesn't bother the fish.

Progress continues. We have rain coming tomorrow, so my digging will have to hault when that happens. That clay is like snot when it gets wet.

Backhoe Pond expansion. Part 4 More Digging! - YouTube (https://youtu.be/qxn7DZLFh3s)

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I never could really figure out why some backhoe operators will adjust the stabilizers and the loader so that the tractor itself is completely off the ground, most around here will have the tires in contact with the ground!

It just seems to me that with the tractor completely off the ground, that it would be hard on the joints and more strain on everything!

That opening scene is nice.
I like part 4.
If I dug like that here, I would have a pile of rocks!!!
Your land looks nice.

I've noted from my videos that even though the tractor has the parking brake on, the wheel that the brakes do not work on, will rotate. Im always workin on a slight slope here, so I don't want to move.

Ray, did you see the rock? I found a rock! I shall call it Ray! Twin fawns Ray!! Twin fawns! It has been a long time since I saw twins here!

I saw THE ONE ROCK.  ;D
Yes on the twin fawns too. Side by side.

You are more stable getting the tires off the ground, in my experience. Tires wobble and give, and the outriggers are the widest point so getting the weight on them gives the best stability. The lowest you can raise the machine to achieve that is typically best, but there's sometimes other things you may be trying to accomplish. For instance, keeping the front end low, and picking the rear way up with the outriggers will give you much more lifting height if you are trying to load a truck or something. 

Jeff,

   If you get that excited by finding a rock for a real thrill you need to visit WV. :D

    I guess I can relate though as I grew up in NW Fla and all we had was sand and dirt with no rocks. Maybe some river gravel in some places.

    Can you engrave Ray's name on the rock and put it at the head of the pond somewhere?

    Looking good so far. 

Quote from: Jeff on June 24, 2023, 08:20:33 AM
I found a rock! 

I dug out about a 20w x 10d x 3' high slope. I found more than one rock! All the new dirty ones.

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Looks good.

One word of caution, I hope you have looked at the requirements for a Michigan Soil Disturbance permit, and are following the guide lines. The counties and state have started really cracking down, expecially with today's aerial photos. Neighbor expanded his pond without the proper permit and last I knew the state wants 10k bucks plus site remediation. 

My hole is less than a quarter acre.

According to the deq regs, I do not meet any of the criteria requiring a permit for increasing the size of this pond. 

The pond will either connect to, or be within 500 feet of, an existing body of water such as a lake, river, or stream.

The pond will be within a regulated wetland or 100-year floodplain.

The pond's size will reach or exceed a surface area of 5 acres.

The pond's construction will require the damming of an existing stream.

As long as you are under the requirements for the soil disturbance permit your golden. Any dirt work over 1 acre puts you into that permit the local soil guy says.

Personally I don't give a rip. But I hate seeing guys get jammed up after the fact. My neighbor is a good guy that was doing just as you are, now he's getting raked over the coals.

I got a fish rock! This baby is around 4ft across. A babyray rock.
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Quote from: Jeff on June 24, 2023, 07:23:53 PM
I got a fish rock! This baby is around 4ft across. A babyray rock.

Might as well leave it in the bottom of the pond with other rocks.  It'll take less water to fill 😜 and might provide shelter for little fish.

All I know is I dig out a 3-4 foot rock I find many more around it. Almost like the rock had babies and they are not full grown yet.  ;D
If I dug like that I would have some rocks!!!!
When they dug the foundation for the house you should have seen the rocks!!!!!
Even had to do some blasting to move one of them.

Lots of rocks here when we dug foundations to, a couple good sized ones and all kinds of rocks from 4 oz to 50 lbs. Even had to hammer a little shale in one corner, which is the solid bedrock around here. :D Hauled in topsoil to bury the rock landscape. Shale is interesting, might be down one foot or down 20 feet. Like guessing the lottery numbers. ;D The old house had a full basement, and that was all dug with horse and slip-scoop. Mom's father used one to, he had his great aunt's house, which was never dug out until he did it. His was easy to dig, no rocks at all and nice deep fine river loam. Ancient river terrace. His brothers place (his father built it) was all sandy loam on top and sand below, just 300 yards away.

Slip Scoop & Horse-Drawn Bobcat - Small Farmer's JournalSmall Farmer's Journal (https://smallfarmersjournal.com/slip-scoop-horse-drawn-bobcat)

No more digging for now. Got just enough rain to make it slick.

We found that 4ft+ diameter rock in the excavation area. It should make for good structure eh? The pond area grows, as does my stock pile of fill dirt.

How to Grow a Pond! We found Structure! Episode 5 - YouTube (https://youtu.be/CqdlISLyBKY)


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How deep below the other pond level are you now?  What's your target depth?

Part 5 looks good.
Also looks like about 6 feet deep?

The original pond has dropped a foot from where I dug out around the north end I removed an area probably 20, by 10, by 5 foot deep. A lot of water.  I'm guesstimating portions of the new dig are about 5ft below the current water line. I want the average over 5ft to eliminate many weeds, and I would like to have some of it 8ft deep.  Its a work of art. It'll be what it wants to be. :)

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Jeff,

  One (maybe the only) thing I learned in my fisheries class at AU was that the steep bank help prevent weeds much better than a sloping bank so keep that in mind if you had not already planned it that way.

  Also I seem to remember (Maybe I did learn 2 things in that class)  was the recommended ratio for stocking southern ponds was 10 bluegills to one bass. I don't know if that ratio applies in the great glatiated north regions or what size fry they were using to stock so maybe that does not help much.  ::) I am confident your local fisheries folks can help with that recommendation if you do choose to stock it. They might even have a program to stock it for you or at least provide/sell you fish stock at a reasonable price.  

  How deep do your local lakes and ponds freeze? That is a factor if you plan to stock fish in it. Good luck.

The positive thing is, the old pond is a max 5ft deep and maybe a 10 ft circle across, and it turns out we have fish that have somehow survived in there that no one can remember putting in there.

Pete put them in!. :)

Most definitely on a night he didn't want to clean them.

Jeff, looking good on the pond progress.
We call ponds or dugouts that are too shallow as "winter kill" ponds.
If a pothole lake or dugout is deep enough to keep the oxygen level high, nice sized fish can live through a few seasons. Our group stocked rainbow trout in a many Prairie ponds which got harvested every five or six years.
Just think, if you took a bit of time and patience, your pond could become a trout pond.
Who knows, every five years, the Pig Roast may have the option of becoming The Fish Fry.  :laugh: :laugh:

My problem with fish here will probably be not living here all the time and defending them from the rest of nature here. 

Well, we had a thunderstorm last night. Just one rain. I got up this morning and not a single puddle around the cabin the pond site? Different story. I could see the water before I got there.

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I think deeper is better.

Ill make it as deep as I feel I comfortably can. :) I feel I need multiple shallow exit points though.

Looks like great progress Jeff! I'm glad I'm not the only one who loves finding rocks. We've got a few more in Dayton, but not many and I LOVE the 4 footers! ljohnsaw, you've got a nice pile too! I'll have to take a good picture of my pile, and my neighbor stopped by a couple days ago to tell me about a few good big rocks he knows of that I can have. Woop!

I mentioned my craters? This is a high side of the pond so I was probably already 5 or so feet above the water line when I start digging. It's not nearly as bad when I'm near the water line, though it's usually a better chance of either getting stuck or rutting things up pretty bad. You can also see the sad state of depth by my aerator nozzles sticking up out of the muck. I could hear it hissing when I went out this morning.


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Looks like you needed our rain too! I was wanting rain for my buckwheat, but not for the pond yet.

I heard we got 5" over the past week. We managed to get a 3 oak domino off the cliff road yesterday but a root ball took the road out. My last trip out was stomping the diff lock and sliding off the hill. We'll have to leave it alone for a bit, sprinkles at daybreak here didn't help. Have you got drying weather coming?

Yes, we should have a week in a couple days. I'm not sure my trick will work now. I was dealing with the small amount of water coming in by just digging a pit for the water. I may have to get @chet (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=134) to bring me a trash pump he says I need. Wink wink Chet. :D

still good to slope to a drain with a deep spot for the pump.  you can also get a bit with the bucket especial if it just fits the hole or grove of the bucket.  also I would have a depth plan (and you prob. do) so you dig to depth as you go, and do not try to go back to the wet areas to dig.  wet clay is slippery.

I'm  better with a paint brush than a hoe.


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Keep workin' at it, and you'll be a Da Vinci of da dirt.  smiley_thumbsup
 arteest-smiley 

My pond isn't usually this low until mid to late August... It's possible that it found a new leak but I kind of doubt it. 

Jeff your progress drone shot is neat!

aigheadish, man I wish you was closer.

That is a yellow yard stick.


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I have a stone wall with ones that are an easy 4 feet across and some that are 5 feet.

Ray, most everything around me has huge rocks, some as big as a cabin. 

I'm just trying to drum up some business!!!!  :D
Free Rocks!!!!  

   I'm still thinking of putting up a warning sign "Anyone caught stealing the rocks will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law."

   Maybe it will make people think they are valuable and they will steal them. ;)

Sorry Jeff, that pump is on garden duty during the summer. Our township water pressure is almost nonexistent during the summer. No way will it run a sprinkler. But I can fill a three hundred gallon tank after a few many hours. That pump, a few lengths of fire hose, a nozzle, and I can make it rain big time.   8)

Its raining again. Its exciting to see that big hole fill with water, but it aint coming out on its own. I've  found I can easily dig with water in the original pond, but the problem is that hoe aint going to move around in any wet, and bring water up all the time will make for a lousy work site.

Exactly, that's why I mentioned the pump in da first place. Even with a pump you will need some hose to get the water off site, or at least a trench to do it if that's possible. 

what ended up being the depth on average, max., min?  It will silt in but with the peninsula. you should be able to dredge it out when you feel like it every few years or so.  grow some fish!

Its not dug yet so we dont have a max depth yet. The deep spots are yet to come, as I'm getting to the are that floods every large rain, and everything I dig out will be water. Hopefully. Yes, the penninsula is plenty wide enough to put the outriggers down on. That wont be dug out until the end.

you could rent one (pump) or even get and undersized electric if you have a generator assuming the is no juice there.  so, did you dig across the peninsula or is that a graphic representation?  

I colored it in. Graphic representation.  :)

thecfarm- I wish I was too! I did the math once (though I'm not sure about it still) to rent a big dump truck and head that direction because I've had a fair amount of offers for free nice rocks in the eastern Pennsylvania and New England area. The trip would likely be less expensive than buying rocks but barely. 

The Soo has a Harbor Freight now. Their trash pumps aren't too expensive.

Tractor supply has some reasonable also.

Quote from: Corley5 on June 27, 2023, 09:50:31 AM
The Soo has a Harbor Freight now. Their trash pumps aren't too expensive.

Then check with yer local fire dept. and see if they have some old hose they may have pulled out of service. 

aigheadish, I have no way to move those big ones,4-5 foot ones.
Those 3 foot ones I can haul up into the bog.
I am thinking about drilling them and splitting them. Get them down into the 3 foot size so I can move them.

If you were closer you could use my trash pump. You might try an electric sump pump the trick is not getting plugged with mud. I sank one in a perforated metal bucket when we added on to the house and a big rain flooded the basement excavation, it wasn't super fast  but did the trick.

Dig a deep sump for the water to drain into.  If it fills up, then enlarge it.  8)

Much of the areas left to dig, are mostly just above water grade, so there will be ample opportunities for doing just that. This is where my deeper areas will be.

Put in a boat ramp area where you could actually back in a boat trailer. My pond was smaller but I launched the boat a few times just to work on the trailer.

Thecfarm- do you know about breaking rocks with fire? Build a big fire around one and it sounds like they'll crack nicely. I've never done it but I know a few guys, up in your neck of the woods, that swear by it.

I think that depends on the type of stone. Nonporous hard rocks probably wont

Couple years back I had some big burns going after there was a foot or so of snow. Raging fires. At the end of the day, doused them with shovels of snow. The unintentional results.

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Jeff, those are actually the best rocks to break. the non porous hard ones. What happens is if you heat a single spot, that spot will expand. Then that will cause it to split. Just be careful because sometimes it doesn't just split sometimes the hot spot blows out towards you.

We kinda did some irreparable damage during one of our live burn training activities in the county burn building. They were less than happy after we cracked the concrete building.

I heard my father talk about the fire trick a few times. 
But I have about 20 rocks that need a splitting treatment.

We used to do the fire technique with rocks when I was a kid. Just FYI, when they explode, they can send pieces flying. :o

Rented an electric jackhammer recently for a demo project, learned that concrete breaks apart much easier than rock. And if you hit a really hard, round, bowling ball size stone, it will just sit there and shake your fillings out. Rat-tat-tat-tat... ;D

The guy I've heard discuss the fire rock breaking the most is in Vermont, if that tells you the kind of rocks he's breaking.

Not a lot of digging in this update.

Flat tire, Storms, and a Committee of Turkey Buzzards. Pond project Update. - YouTube (https://youtu.be/XS3T5h-2M-A)

Yup. Dats a shovel.
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hey!?!?! thats false advertising. Making it look like you dug that with the shovel :)

That tire went on quick.
When I see turkey vultures, I start moving.  ;D
I killed a porky pine and we were going somewheres so I left it there. Was only gone a couple hours and a turkey vulture all ready found it.
It never did anything to it. 

Well, looks like this pond wants to pond no matter how much I ponder on preventing the premature ponding. So be it. Yesterday I dug in water,  and piled the spoils where it could drain back. I'm hoping after sitting a day, I can then move it to my spoils berm.

This Pond, WANTS TO BE A POND! Work continues. - YouTube (https://youtu.be/lkAOq5dkN24)

Looking good. More fun then 10 mustangs sitting in a garage.  You made the right choice. 8)

Ed, I absolutly LOVE sitting on that machine just a diggin.  Tammy got up this morning and went to the Hessel laundramat. When she gets back I'll see if it looks like I can move that slippy pile I made. If I can, without really slopping up my work site, I'll dig some more. 8)

If it's anything like my piles of wet stuff it'll be tough to move for several days. Looks like you are making nice progress!

Now, I know you don't have the enclosed cab, but I'd suggest, at some point when you and the hoe are already ready for a bath, that you pick up a big scoop of mud, run your extender all the way out and the bucket as high as it'll go and uncurl over the water. The splash and mess it makes is hilarious! Even better if you can have some unsuspecting kid nearby.

Jeez oh petes, why did you have to put that notion in my head?? :D :D

I cleaned up that sloppy mess this afternoon, and used the 8n to regrade everything. It took me about 2 hours. It only took 22 minutes to dig it out.  Pics from the day end.

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I am pretty amazed how clear the existing pond water got in just a couple of days of a major dredging out the one end.


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Awesome picture Jeff!  How deep have you gotten?  If I remember from my time living Minnesota they wanted at least 8 ft of water to keep fish over winter..

I started digging for depth now that I am approaching the middle. I think the portion I dredged this morning may be as deep as 10ft.  I still have a cattail ledge on the southeasy edge to narrow up while it is back above water. I want a thick row of cattails there as it will help curtain some hunting approaches.  I must say, I have no idea if any of these ideas will be productive, but its fun to dream. So far this project is a wildlife draw. Last night the deer were back playong the edges.
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Looks like you are moving right along on your pond project. I would not be surprised if the original plan got expanded soon. Boys really like digging and moving dirt. :D

What are your plans for sloping the edges. In NY I believe they require 3/1 for safety. Not sure how the guy that constructed mine checked it or if anyone from the state did. He has built a lot of them so I guess he has enough experience to just do it by eye.

If you look at the one pic, you and see at the beginning edge, how it is stepped down in depth. Digging it right now, there are places that has sheer walls, but that is just to get depth as I move to the other side. I can add depth later to the sides with the extenda hoe if I need to. But if I want depth in the middle, I need to do it now.

You are definitely getting smoother with the backhoe!  I noticed it immediately when I watched the video.  

The pond looks good.

Of all the jobs I did in the woods and the mills, my favorites were running the knuckleboom loaders, loading and unloading logs pulp and firewood as well as on the slasher and total tree chipper. Second favorite was skidder, then front end loaders. Sawmill was the only machine I felt was work.

Current progress. Looks like ill need to knock some trees down. I need another route to my berm road. 


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It's looking good  :).
Any pudding, or, what are the rocks? 

No puddingstones. Ive got no clue what the ones I find are, but seem to be deep when I find one.

Some downtime on the pond work right now due to the recent rain. because of working in a big clay bowl pretty much, any moisture makes it extremely slick for such a heavy machine. digging is no sweat, but transporting the spoils out of the work area becomes treacherous now that I have a big hole and gravity and all. I put this video together when I found the trail cam warned me it was full, to record my current progress.

Trail Camera and Drone Shows Pond Work - YouTube (https://youtu.be/7vsHlHFHvmY)

I'm still at it. It's been very dry which is conducive to making headway. 


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Well crappola.  Blew something. I had just come up with a new dig plan to get me closer to the end, and was clearing a spot for my spare fill dirt pile. I tipped a couple balsom poplars over and was pushing them lengthwise in to the tag alder brush. I must of snagged a line up underneath.  I can't tell where it is at so when Burlkraft gets back up here in a day or two we'll figure it out.until then, where it happened is high and dry and outta the way.


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How'd you know something happened? Did it stop moving or turning or something? I can't quite see what went wrong in your picture other than it looks wet above. 

I've been buried pretty deep in my machine a few times and get nervous about stuff underneath breaking. Steering parts have been my biggest concern because usually I'm trying to drag myself out of something a bit sideways, where the front tires are dug in up to the axles and I have to move a bit sideways, then reach back and turn the steering wheel a bit to counteract, then do that over and over. 

The fel all if the sudden would not lift, I stepped out and saw the oil blowing from underneath, but have no clue from where. It was blowing to bad to restart and get off and on to look.

Hopefully that just will point to another busted hose, which should be the least expensive option!

Ill detail later. In the 3rd day of repair. Blown main pressure line off the front hydraulic pump.  Thank God for Brother Burlkraft and is mechanical expertise.

We will need another day. Had to go to the soo to buy bigger tools. 1 1/2 and 1 3/8  are something I did not have.  The pump sits under the radiator engine cooler and a hydraulic cooler.  Took us several hours to get the hose out. Back 50 miles to get a hose, that they made too long by about a half inch. Critical error on trying to get this together. We finally did get the new hoses on, but spotted a potential and likely place where an engine oil rubber cooler line is bad. Problem is, the hose goes on a steel line and has a hose clamp facing into the frame under the oil coolers. Tomorrow is another day.  
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Ahhh.... now you are starting to get the full experience of old backhoe ownership.

I guess you could cut the clamp off if it would be easier than tearing enough stuff off to loosen it.

You can't get to it. The hose is good, the end is chewed up making it too short to put on the gooseneck of the oil cooler. We are going to cut it back, put a union in. Have to go get one tomorrow. Steve has to leave on Monday.

Back together and ready to dig.  :)

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The bigger the machine the bigger the wrenches! 

Let the digging begin.

One of Da simple pleasures of owning equipment, wrenchin'. :)

It's amazing what the 1/2" extra hose will do to cause problems. Glad to hear you've got everything back up and running.

My hoe has been down for weeks- I made the mistake to hire someone to reseal some cylinders and the experience has gone rather poorly. I'll be finishing the job, after a hydraulic flush, as soon as I can find the money and time to do it...

Put the drone up for some current pic before heading south today to help get our newest Michigander moved into his new place, then I'll go back. Our long time good friend and brother Steve Beecraft has moved and will now live within 25 minutes of me and hopefully spending a lot more time at the cabin. No more 18 hr. Driving to visit!!


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You musta not been gettin' all da rain we have lately. 

No, hardly any. All around us but not us. What we get is only enough to keep me from digging due to zero traction.

I have a load of 57's at the head of the road out of the woods. Sometimes a little dab'l do ya.

Looks good!!!

Made some good progress yesterday after returning to the cabin. We helped Steve moved in to his new place in mt. P.  And Tammy and I came back up. I made a short progress video. Its been raining steady now for about 5 hrs. I imagine work will be halted for awhile, but I am anxious to see how much water we gain. The original pond was getting pretty low due to drought here. This may not end the drought, and its to late to save my buckwheat.

Pond Progress Report - YouTube (https://youtu.be/S0Bu5O3W4nw)

Rain looks to have raised everything about 6" so far. Got a lull, but it is supposed to rain more yet. You can see in the previous video that big boulder was high and dry.


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is the color of the old pond section natural or is that copper to decrease weeds?  

Pond dye, not copper.

Looking pretty good! Maybe put some seed in around after you get done 

I have actually seeded a clover mix over much of the area that I feel is for now done being molested. Any vegetation will be welcome.I did it when I first improved the trail over the overflow end of the pond, and up on my berm road and the Peninsula and other areas less than a week ago. 

Happy Birthday Jeff !!!   8)

Yes Sir, Happy Birthday!

Thank you Lynn and Chuck, It's supposed to be dry, breezy and sunny today. Yesterday we got .97 inches of rain according to neighbor Gary's weather station. Conditions should be good for drying out today.  

Took a pic last night of some of the vegetation coming back.  Everything there is in a bowl, everything runs towards the pond. I need to grow what ever will grow with what is avaliable naturally, because any runoff goes in those ponds.


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Before you connect them, would it be possible to see if it holds water on its own?

Jeff are you at the cabin now?
And happy birthday. 
We are at van riper campground, been raining most of the week on / off.
Church 

Quote from: Don P on July 21, 2023, 08:13:10 AM
Before you connect them, would it be possible to see if it holds water on its own?

Exactly my plan, but I have no doubts as I watch what this dig shows me. So far, any water that has got in there has only increased, while the original pond has went down, almost exclusively by my digging a lot of volumn from one end at the beginning in prep for future connection. I may have to take more out yet, before I finish the new part to facilitate future backhoe positioning once I am ready to make the connection. Maybe I should have a live video event when I do.  8)

Quote from: church on July 21, 2023, 08:16:18 AM
Jeff are you at the cabin now?
And happy birthday.
We are at van riper campground, been raining most of the week on / off.
Church

I am. Tammy and the dogs and I are here until I have a dr appointment downstate on thursday.

Happy birthday Jeff! 8)

 
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Not sure who looks more content in that picture. Great photo 

Now if you can teach him to fitch the diesel.  "get the diesel boy, Jeff is stuck in the pond!"

Oh!  HAPPY BIRTHDAY JEFF.   8)

Happy Birthday Jeff! What a way to celebrate, livin' da U.P. dream!

Happy Birthday Jeff !!! Enjoy your day.

Happy Birthday. Hopefully you guys will have some good Eating! Nice backhoe picture with you boy

 
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You're making good progress on the pond project and having fun with the UP backhoe!!
Can't think of a better way to enjoy a birthday  8)

Be well my friend — Stan

Late happy birthday! Jeff
 
You might be getting some of that water from the ground. Clay likes to ooze water. Did you check the water table in the drive point. Formations can be wet 5'-10' before the water table.(capillary action)

SE

 
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In the first pic where the new hole is at the top, are you going to continue going up making it bigger?  Or are you at the point of connecting?

In short, yes. Im getting real close to getting to the point of worrying about the connection. That is not painting myself in a corner so to speak by not leaving a place to set up and put the dirt.  I want to add depth to where I can add depth now, then I have some edge work. The original pond is very low, so I may make my connection soon, just above this low water level. I want the ponds to split, if the water gets extremely low at times in the future.

I was broken down for much of yesterday again. Steve and I had replaced 4 short hoses when the pump hose blew, that went to an oil cooler that were all connected, factory, with screw hose clamps. Both ends to a flared end on the cooler and a flared end on a steel line. I know we tightened them,  but one blew off, and all of them were loose. Must be either the clamps or hoses thermally changed size. I lost about a gallon of hydr oil on this one, but no parts needed.


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Double up on the clamps :)

I wish someone would make those clamps in ape man grade steel.

there is a difference in hose clamps.  name brand I can tighten with my batt operated impact, the cheap ones strip.

Is there a bell in the steel tubing? No clamp will properly hold pressure lines on place without it. I have added small double flares to steel lines with that problem.  Double flares don't  leave a sharp corner that will eventually cut the hose.

Jeff you have done a great job of rehabbing this machine.  The trouble always becomes where do you stop.  My old dump truck gets a bit of attention every 5 years or so, and when I start, I try to bring it up a level.  I have had it almost 30 years.  I even fixed the E brake that is a brake shoe and drum in the drive line.  I also tried the feed a crank seal around by loosening bolts and doing it via the oil pan and on the garage floor.  Still leaks.  win some and you lose some.  Seems like some stuff is held together with grease dirt and grunge.  Once you wash it off, you find all kinds of problems. :) I have learned a lot.

Well, was having a great day. In fact may have actually finished the excavating part today had I not...Blown another line. I caught it just at the first hiss and mist. One of the ones coming up around the bottom of the boom. I was able to get it back in transport mode before it got worse and lost maybe a cup of oil. Dunno what line yet. Ill need anudder set of eyes willing to get greasy.

What I learned when I had my backhoe, is once you start replacing old hydraulic lines, you probably won't stop. The new hose is full strength (rigid), while the old hoses are worn (soft) in comparison. And as you run it, the hydraulic pressure will find the weakest hose in the system.

Well, everything was going so well, until it wasnt. A nice Ariel view of the pond site on Tamarack Ridge. 

Sunday on Tamarack Ridge. Dig Dig Dig. Is that a light at the end of that Tunnel Hole? - YouTube (https://youtu.be/009j-v6-iaQ)

ARGH! You stopped just before you broke the water through! I've been waiting months to see that magic moment. C'mon Jeff, we want to see your water break. ;D :D

On reflection, perhaps I could have phrased that differently.

Actually, .the last dig I actually dug the connection between the two, just higher than the current low water level. If the ponds raise to the high level, at the over flow, there will be about 2ft of water at the crossover.

Is that so you can walk across if you want?

He does kind of have that Moses look above. Mo B.  ;D

Quote from: Peter Drouin on July 25, 2023, 06:24:57 AM
Is that so you can walk across if you want?

Yes it is my son.  :D

It's getting deep in here (the thread, not the pond) and I take back my regrets about the poor wording in the prior post. ;D

So you are going to let the natural fill up join the two, is that the plan? If so, it sure will take a long time for them to 'normalize' equally with color, and dissolved solids density. But I suppose that's your goal? I was just hoping to see you break the *DanG through as an exciting finale when you fish the digging and trim work. Then you need a sandy beach and a TiKi bar. :D

No pond work today. Gotta head down state for a dr appointment, then hopefully back up on friday to try and get off the latest blown and going to blow hose next to it.

That new part looks deep!!!

Krackens is big.

Jeff, I'll trade ya for a busted hydro hose.   :-\    

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At least you can get to it.  Been bad here today. Cedar accidently got chocholate poisoned. He took a whole plate of cookies left on the table full of dark chocolate chunks. I was at the kinross animal hospital and on the phone with Pat. He's still pretty messed up. I have him here keeping quiet. I'm supposed to check that he is responding every hour. He has shown some signs of improvement the last couple hours.

Prayers for that boy getting better!!

After having slept a couple hours, he is looking and acting much more normal. I'm still pretty worried, but not as much as I was. 

I never knew that chocolate can do that to dogs. Learned something right there.

Too much of a good thing is not good.  :(
I suppose he is back to himself this morning?

Hope everything works out ok for Cedar, the exhaust could be.....disturbing.... :o

He had a bad go yesterday, but came around last night. He had enough it could of killed him.  Hes here now guarding the screen porch lokking for Fraser and Lilith, our resident sandhill cranes.

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close call.  I doubt he realizes it was the chocolate that made him sick.

Time to give it up. :)

Alien Face Appears in Northern Forest. Pond Expansion Suddenly Haults! I AM DONE! - YouTube (https://youtu.be/bFlK1KQJxhs)

That rake is pretty handy on the Ford! So how deep will the land bridge be when full? Does your property drain naturally into the pond from all sides?

Wait Jeff, did I miss something? I thought you were going to connect the old and the new section, or is there a pipe buried in there that I missed? This is gonna look great when it greens up and the critters get used to it. Nicely done Boss!

Happy sledding!!!

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on July 31, 2023, 09:07:26 PM
Wait Jeff, did I miss something? I thought you were going to connect the old and the new section, or is there a pipe buried in there that I missed? This is gonna look great when it greens up and the critters get used to it. Nicely done Boss!

The ponds will connect over the land bridge when they fill. That bridge is about 2 foot below the normal high water level. Once the two sides connect naturally, Ill decide how much deeper, if at all to dig the connection out.

Quote from: ljohnsaw on July 31, 2023, 07:52:22 PMDoes your property drain naturally into the pond from all sides?

The pond is in a bowl in one of the drainages. There are multiple.

Seeing your shirt I'd say working back in the evergreens isn't just good physical therapy, it's good mental therapy too.  :)

Looks great 8) 8) 8)  There's afternoon thundershowers in the forecast.

Great looking project, Jeff!!  Thanks for taking us along. 

Some hand work.
I Can Hear You Call My Name. - YouTube (https://youtu.be/euCPjhXp2GY)

I love your choice of music for this video Jeff.

Honestly, my favorite part of making a video is adding music. I love finding the pieces that as soon as I listen and watch that at least for me, seems perfect. Thanks for noticing.:)

Didnt like the current giant mud puddle look.

Growing a Pond, then Painting it Blue. - YouTube (https://youtu.be/2MSp9vAedNE)

Were you dropping those from the drone?

No, I chucked it in. Then threw a big rock at the package.

I liked the spiral effect transition after the dye was in at @1:15. It looked like a 1970s thing from Austin Powers "yeah baby".  It also looked like a tight rope walking feat by Cedar on the rake @2:15.

Too much dye need a bunch more water, or a tidybowl man. :D

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what if any is the purpose of the dye?
It did look like a toilet at 1:15, didn't it? :snowball: :) :) :)

Algae control, and to hide the mud. The town park pond where we used to live would try for a somewhat natural shade after every rain. They never got anything remotely resembling natural and sometimes the mud would have looked better.

Dang, I was hoping you had a drone with bombing capability  ;D

You could try green next time, and then it'd be like the Chicago river on St. Patrick's day. ;D

How in the world did your doggy not go chasing after those dye packs? My roasted marshmallow colored dog would have come back soaking wet, muddy, and blue!

Well, it helps that it is over 6 ft down to the water, plus I told him not to. He was interested though. :)

A Depth guage,
A muck dig, 
A Giant Dog,
And BULLHEADS
AND something for @Old Greenhorn (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=42103)  :)

IT'S ALIVE! IT'S ALIVE!! I thought I had DESTROYED my pond and THEN... - YouTube (https://youtu.be/NN7ZkzPw1Xk)

Well, I for one found that MOST satisfying! :D :)

If I dug a pond like that on my land, I would not be saying that about the rocks.  ;D
I think Old Greenhorn would like to send the rain he's getting your way.
I might get about 3 inches tonight.  :o  :(

Oh yes, Take my rain, please! In fact, it's just starting again now so I will go out in the yard and start blowing REAL hard to the West Northwest! Anything to help a buddy out. ;D

3" would fill my pond I think.

Some reflecting on this project.

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That's another wall hanger you got there.

1.31"  of rain thursday raised the pond 4"  not as much as I was hoping for, but it was so so dry and everything wanted that water before it got to the pond this time.


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I remember you showing pics driving a well point at a cabin.  Is it this area and can you do that to get the volume up.  then you are just depending on the rain to keep it up.  an old windmill would add to your pristine county life there.  IMO.

Absolutely negatory on that here. My property a mile down the road was totally different than this. To get to the water below the clay here, you have to go through limestone.down there, it is sand and stone, and the water table high. That being said, a well would be great, but not achievable. 

Well, you've had quite a summer up there scratching around. ;D

Cedar and I have been working on expanding the pond here in the U.P. The digging was finished a couple weeks ago, but here in the far Eastern U.P. we have had a serious lack of rain this summer. There were times I would dig 7 feet deep and not see moisture

We got our first significant rain event a few days ago, and I was crazy anxious to see how much our pond level guage goes up I created in an earlier video. It is raining hard again as I type this and I hope we gain some more depth

How much Rain does it take to fill a Pond? - YouTube (https://youtu.be/ruB1Ex2U2ls)

Grab a few pics of the upper roof transition there... I suspect a missing flashing.

I think Mucca just met his first bear  :).

It aint never leaked that bad! We had some heavy winds right out of the south. This morning, a good hard rain, not a drip. Ill get up over the edge and snap a shot when it quits raining. 

And last year you were floating in water. The corn thought it was a rice patty. :D Been no shortage here for sure.

do you know what the sq. footage of the pond id.  you can figure how many feet would have to drain into 

So far we have had about .82 inches since midnight. I extrapolate from the last datta that the pond should of come up at least 2 more inches, but this time the soil is not as dry, so I may see a slight increase in runoff.

@Don P (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=17) Tammy told me I am not to climb on that roof, (Gawd, it's about flat) until she is here, but in her wisdom she said I could go upstairs and take pics from her sewing room window. Took some practice to get it pointed right.;)
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That is not the correct flashing for that Jeff. The right flashing should extend about 6" up behind the siding, and at least 6" out on to the roofing. Then there is a foam seal that goes underneath the flashing to seal it from backsplash. 

Yes, that looks far safer than being right side up out there  :D.

Yup to what barbender said, there's always something else for the list. Caulk it with polybutylene for now, it'll fail but buys you some time.

Quote from: barbender on August 23, 2023, 01:18:40 PM
That is not the correct flashing for that Jeff. The right flashing should extend about 6" up behind the siding, and at least 6" out on to the roofing. Then there is a foam seal that goes underneath the flashing to seal it from backsplash.

Yep, agree with Barbender. What is there looks to be more like a drip cap and not proper flashing. Good that you're finding the problem so it can be remedied or there would be bigger problems down the road smiley_clapping

Chiapond! I'm not getting pond filling rain like all around me, but I'm getting great growing rain for my around the pond starter vegetation.


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Like the drone!!!!!

1.7" of rain raised the ponds another ten inches. Only about 4" on the old side, and about 2' on the new side to join up.

Dry weather has my pond down about 6 inches..

 
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Almost touching hands. ;D

Oh! I forgot. This past week I got up there on that porch roof with a hammer and a broom. A pair of scissors and 3 rolls of 8" wide, 5' long of Flexseal tape. 1.7 inches of driving rain and not a drip. That flex seal even rolled and sealed into and along the roofing corrugation.

 
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Suprised you could fly that drone so high, since you had all that cloak and dagger stuff going on next door..... :)

No kidding eh?

looks like s golf course with lots of trees.

Miniature golf with the color of the ponds! ;) :D

Set up by the tripod out by the main trail and try for a hole in the pond with a 1 wood. :D

We are supposed to get two days of rain. How much? Dunno, but my Sister is on her way to stay for a few days, and it would be exciting to see the ponds start to meet, but it's a bummer it's raining while she is here. 

more time for coffee and conversation.

Been getting that rain here, had an 1" this morning. A little break now, but more coming. With this sinus infection I ain't working in no rain. ::)

With your buggy and canopy, a little drive near by the ponds will satisfy curiosity. Might be more like spring mud'n though, to move any distance in that greasy clay. ;D

I decided to try and move some minnows from one side of the pond to the other to get some going in there.

I Just Caught 25 Bullhead Catfish in ONE CAST! - YouTube (https://youtu.be/EPceOy-gwqE?si=VXAlRUCZAvJzPDR9)

I think you caught minnows the first go round but the bullheads got in there and ate them all up!

We have catfish up this way, but I have only seen one my whole life. I caught that in a deep pool of water on a big bend in the river (Dungarvin R.). It has a very dark water, like dark coffee, coming out of the spruce bogs. It's funny how salmon and trout can live in crystal clear water and also that dark water. To me it is like living and breathing clean air versus smoky air. I'd prefer the clean air. :D

Pond update. This is the dryest summer and fall I can remember. The big lakes are down feet, but my pond expansion has not once lost water but it sure has struggled to gain. The guage registers about 4' 2"  now,  still gaining about 4" for every 1" of rain. I'm hoping that all changes this next couple days as we have out first really rainy forecast.  The weather man even used the word torrential last night. Probably just to torment me as it once again splits and goes by.

Here is hoping Mother Nature gives me a big wet one the next few days!

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  If I wasn't so busy I'd plan a "Tent" camping trip on your property, that never fails to bring on a good rainy week. :D

We got some presip showin' up in our forecast too. but it's white  :snowball: 

never mind, they changed our forecast AGAIN. :D

Well the first half of the torrent was .08. Broken blues up there now.

Like to send you some NH rain. My log yard never dried up this summer. ::)

What color is the water going to be when the two get together?
Purple?? ;) ;D

Greenish greenish blue. Id suspect it'll be pretty diluted by the time it fills,

An inch of rain, 4" of pond. I like it! It takes a lot more water everytime, to go up 4" now. It isstarting to look bigger now. Durn! The sun is out! Who says that??  :)


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That really  is looking good.  Great job.

Peter will send NH rain.
Ray will send ME rain!!!!!  ;D
Been a bad year for rain.
If it don't let up, we will have 10 feet of snow by Feb.  :D  :o

In winter 2007-2008 we did have 12' up here. Of course not in ground depth, just what fell from the sky. One of the snowiest winters on record in the area. Funny thing was, winter before was next to no snow. :D

Was still 4' depth the first week of April in the back yard for the robins to bob on. And that was not a plow snow bank.

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If it's any consolation in the 7 years I've been at my place my pond has never been dryer than this year. It is holding maybe a puddle but even that I think is gone now. It looks terrible.

The road, she narrows!  8)


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What is the depth now.  the colors look closer.

The depth, where the guage is, is around 5.5 feet.   Just took this video clip. Well, just is relative. Took 5 hours to upload. ;)

Filling a pond? Have Patience! - YouTube (https://youtu.be/O5MawlytOgo?si=Ja2GItACGrVFFvGc)

 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/20231028_152020.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1698535608)
 

The Eagle has landed!!!!

How high's the water Mama?  ???

Five Feet High and Rising - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK7P4Sgomtw)

 
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/20231028_093913.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1698541625)
 

Quote from: Resonator on October 28, 2023, 08:37:10 PM
How high's the water Mama?  ???

Five Feet High and Rising - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK7P4Sgomtw)

Perfect!! Tammy just got me a new Johnny Cash tshirt!

That looks like a complete success to me.  The first thing that came to my mind when I saw how well that point looked was that many pond builders here put a little island in the pond to deter predators as a perfect place for ducks and geese to nest and just generally relax.  A safe haven, and waterfowl magnet.

 

Was able to do a little bit of video while Tammy was here this weekend. That chick likes to play in puddles...

Heavy Rain. Can it Fill a Pond? - YouTube (https://youtu.be/YhxTh-8zWiE?si=k3z3HOBs-e3EbsYb)

Good job this year Justine. You to Cedar!


(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/20231030_184202.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1698715798)
 

Pretty good look at the pond excavation work and my self awarded award winning clover.

I'll probably never have another clover field as nice as this one. - YouTube (https://youtu.be/jbtRl5QtigI)

You will have woodchucks now.   :D   :(  
Seems kinda odd to see how flat it is there. 
I like how Cedar watches the drone.

Jeff will have steelhead running up to the pond from the big lake before we know it😁

The name of that tune in that last video is called water slide.

 
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Now that's a picture!!!!

Jeff is quite artistic, so maybe he painted that great pic. 

Excellent photo. I'd make one like that into a poster for back at home base. I've always found when using negatives for posters, they always came out dark. But that's a lot to do with the people developing it. Some are experts, and some just know how to develop film without a care about the results.

Even on an inexpensive printer, printing on photo paper, I find you have the brighten the image or it too darkens on print. I usually have to make a test run and adjust for the final print. Trouble with those types of photos off a printer is that the colors will fade in time. ::)

I'm telling you guys, I do not know why, but walking down to the pond and seeing what it is becoming, brings me true joy. It's so close to what I envisioned, but better, and the better has nothing to do with me.

Yesterday something happened to my right foot. No idea what I did, but I can't hardly walk on it, but I can tell you, if I have to cut a crutch, I'll get down to that pond today. Yesterday a deer was snorting at cedar and I from behind the berm. Before the berm, any deer down there would have been long gone.

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That has become a beautiful place of solitude.

I meant to post this the other day but lacked the time to word it thoughtfully.
 Jeff it has been no small pleasure in my recent life over the past year or so to watch another man about my age get the opportunity and have the drive to make his dream come true. 'being with you' in a manner of speaking while you worked through all the decisions going back to well before you sold the mustang, sharing your frustrations and the hundreds of tiny steps to get things in place and functioning has added joy (and sympathy) to my daily life. 
 But more than anything watching the results come together after all that work, frustration, problem solving, head scratching, leaky hoses, broken equipment, and all the other stuff is really something to behold and rejoice in for folks like me that can't get our act together no matter how close we get.
 I can't express how thankful I am that you brought us along for the ride, through all the ups and downs and shared the resulting joyful outcome.
 Good for you and Tammy, you have built something to bring you pleasure for years to come. That is a noble and worthy thing. Yeah, I know why you get joy out of a walk through and to what you have built, that was the goal, and you nailed it.

 Thanks for the ride and future things as they develop as we know they will. I can't wait until things green up in the spring, then it will REALLY pop! :)


P.S. I am so glad those 2 ponds have finally melded. That two-tone color thing was driving me nuts, but I tried not to say anything. All is good now, in fact, perfect I think. :D

Jeff you've got a beautiful place there and should feel proud. The contentment in your posts about your work there is palpable. 
Your mention of pure joy when seeing it is something I totally understand. 
Of all the things I've built,worked on and problems I've solved, nothing is as satisfying as seeing a piece of land change and improve due to my efforts. Whether it's seeing crops improve or all of nature's little creatures thriving and doing their thing it's great to watch. 
The road to getting there is bumpy at times but it's always worth it. 
Great job. 

Just a picture of the pond. Upside down.

 
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So is up actually down or is down really up?  :)

I like it either way. Like an alternate universe. 

Beautiful Jeff, glad you got that picture.

Yours has much more character than one I took a few years ago:

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN05601.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1413072568)
 Is this up or....

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20011/DSCN05601Upside.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1700053969)
 
 Is it down??  :)

Found myself twisting the phone upside down to try and figure out what way was up  :D
That picture is like a riddle with no words.

I think the bottom one is right side up!

And you are upside down.  ;D

What you see as a bush in the lower right of the 2nd picture is actually an overhanging tree limb in the upper left of the 1st picture.  Also the blue in the sky is absorbed/not reflected true in the water reflection so it appears more pale.  The darker blue is actually the sky.

Walking out tonight. No deer on opening day, but saw this flipper. Is it flipped?

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/20231115_174237.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1700089813)
 

No but it is purdy.  :)

I'm on the no side too on the flipper. ;D
Nice picture!!!

I've only seen 3 or 4 does all fall. But a neighor did get a buck under the hill below the house here, week ago this past Sunday. Just barely drove down there and bang, all over and done with. :D Deer are pretty sparse in these parts, it's like winning a lotto. :D

Only 3 places around here I would hunt deer as they are where they travel. A couple of those spots nobody hunts. They don't stay in winter near here at all after there is 12+ inches of snow. They will mill around until the snow starts to add up. 

Good morning woodland pond!

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/1000023794.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=352793)

That is a happy place.  ffcool

Not exactly what I expected as spring approaches. Typically there would be feet of snow, and then a lot of run off at breakup. I was expecting to get an overfull pond. Ive gained only a couple inches over the winter. I do love that camera.  It's what's  on T.V. this morning. :)

Looks like the same snow cover as we have here. Fields and under softwoods are about bare. Only 3-4" under hardwood and aspen woods. By the end of this week won't be hardly any. All I see forecast is warm and a day here and there of rain. Not seeing any willow out yet, but by next week I will.

Nice pix, Your snow is like mine, just patches around. ffsmiley

Looking out the window here, then looking at the calendar, wondering why it still says MARCH and not MAY!

No snow anywhere!

Not much left here. Maybe 3-4" at most in the woods with bare patches under spruce canopy.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/weather-March4-2024.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=352795)

I was looking at the Kubota BX with snowblower and thinking I could "probably" take it off  :uhoh: but maybe I'll wait a few more weeks.

Jeff, of all years not to get much snow.  smiley_thumbsdown
We did not get much here either. which is kinda good. The ground is full of water from rain all summer.
The brook was full all winter. 

I can remember my Dad saying; "Snow is a poor mans fertilizer"!

It is. Im sure we will get more yet.

We've only got an inch or two covering the ground.  Last night we lost power and finally got it back on this afternoon.  The inch or two on the ground is pollen, mostly from live oaks.  Spring has sprung.  We did not have a frost this winter, which is an anomaly.  It has been in the 80's here this week. 

Tammy has Spring break this week, so we are going up and see the now full pond. I'm pretty sure it is to the overflow, so I want to check that out. I also have a 800 hastas I need untarp. 

These first two picks are a little over a week a part. I'd be very pleased if this is a maintainable water line.  I susspect the rest of the ice will be gone tomorrow.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/1000024344.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353216)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/1000024343.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353217)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/1000024345.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353218)

And no snow. 
We was like that last week. Then a snowstorm left behind about 20 inches.
Have fun!!!

That's a lot of hostas! 

The pond looks great! 

My water level has come up a bit but it's almost like the tides for as quickly as it'll drain. I have been able to keep the aerator on a for a month or so now. I'm already getting algae growth, I noticed last night.

Looks great. I like the natural color. You going to dye it again , or leave it natural using barley straw ?

Nice.  Be sure to wait 30 minutes after eating before you swim.   :wink_2: :uhoh: ffsmiley

Quote from: 21incher on March 27, 2024, 07:26:34 AMLooks great. I like the natural color. You going to dye it again , or leave it natural using barley straw ?

The dye makes a great barrier to algae growth. I'm going to play it by ear this spring. With the dye, it's kinda impossible to witness what is going on in there as to water clarity and such. Tammy likes the color. We shall see.  I hope to be up there later today to really see what is going on. Those cameras just reveal bigger mysteries!  I have no idea if my built overflow is functioning correctly, or if it even up to it yet. Video to come!!

Quote from: doc henderson on March 27, 2024, 07:38:03 AMNice.  Be sure to wait 30 minutes after eating before you swim.  :wink_2: :uhoh: ffsmiley

Awe Mom!!!!

I use a dark blue sapphire dye. It makes it look much more natural than the light blue stuff you see everywhere. 

Natural depends on where you are at.  Many of the small ponds in this aera have a blue cast, as does lake huron.

I've got a leak. It may be an old unknown by me, shallower over flow. My overflow never got used.

Could it just be seepage through that end that looks like a dike? The seepage is wicked on my neighbors pond when the water hits a certain level. I had to drop the spillway level to keep it below that.

Quote from: Jeff on March 27, 2024, 06:38:09 PMI've got a leak. It may be an old unknown by me, shallower over flow. My overflow never got used.

Jeff, a buddy of mine built a nice little pond and whenever the water level reached a certain place it slowly began seeping and always went down to about the same place and stayed there until almost full again. He eventually dug it out and let it dry out and if I remember right he put down about a foot or foot and half of good clay liner and has not had any issues since. He said he found a spot a little below the lower level of the water line there was a spot that appeared to be the issue. It was the weight of the full level that triggered the weakest spot to begin leaking.

So the hydrostatic pressure at full was compressing the area that would allow the leak. You may have a similar issue and may never find it unless you go down the same rabbit hole he did. But every time it would go down he was out trying to find the leak to no avail. 

Good Luck in your "rabbit huntin'"

being a new pond that has not had much water at that level, it may just need to seal itself off.  you could get some clay/bentonite and add it to the soil at the higher levels.  at least at that level, ir there is a low spot you should be able to see it.  I saw some ruts, but I assume those are from run in, not run out.

I think it may be roots. I cut several aspens off that bank when I first started clearing that old pond out. I can see where it is flowing out but not exactly, of a mass of brush and clay  on the shallow end of the dike. 

I have been told that duck poop will seal off a pond.  but they also dig along the sides and tear it down and silt in the pond.  and the ones trained to poop where the leaks are, do not come cheap.   ffcheesy ffcheesy

Glacial water filtered and unfiltered.  ffwave  The Meziadin meets the Nass.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Mez_Nass.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=90740)

The water in the lake is icey blue as the silt settles out, that settled out lake water feeds the creek. Around here the water is either like black coffee or as clear as tap water. The dark stuff comes out of bogs, the clear stuff is spring fed.

The previous owners planted trees every 30 or so feet on the far side of my pond and I'm fairly positive that their roots are causing some of my leaks as well. I don't know that mine has ever really held water. They used to use creek water to fill it. I've got a pump to try that myself but haven't yet. The creek is full of mud, from running off the farm field across the street. My assumption is that my pond with fill with silt and dirt if I pump much in from there. If I got a big 250 gallon tote or whatever size they are I could fill it from farther down the creek, where it clears up but it'd take a lot of trips to empty the tote into the pond. Otherwise I'd need several hundred feet of hose and probably a much more robust pump.

Here's the latest picture of mine, yours looks way nicer Jeff.

The pond filled back up yesterday, and my well guy got me a smoking deal on 500lbs of Sodium Bentonite. Looks like the conditions should be perfect to take care of my leak/seep

How you going to drain the pond to apply it ?

I don't need to. I am going to use the sprinkle method. I need the water level above the line at which it leaks, but little incoming water, and little wind. Im hoping all of those conditions come together in the next couple days. The exiting water,  will take the bentonite with it, collecting other suspended particles and swelling over 15 time it size sealing off the leak Thats the theory.  Dave, one of the well guys, just helped his dad seal up some muskrat holes. He filled me in on his techniques.

From everything I've read the sprinkling method is supposed to work really well. Can I ask what a smoking deal is for that? My initial looks, years ago lead me to believe I'd need tons of it. 

I ought to consider that option as well, but I'd like to dig down several more feet before I did. 

I said smoking in comparison to everything I found on line.  The cheapest I found was 50 for 50lb  bag plus delivery.  I got this for $20 a 50lb bag, no shipping, in fact they backed up to my truck in my driveway, and delivered the 10 bags right to the back of my truck. 

I got up here at the perfect time to learn what was going on, sorta.  The two leaks are obvious just above the old high waterline.I'm trying the clay. The pond was going back down when we got here, from the high we could see on the camera. I used 5 bags, the water level is now going back up. The outflow has slowed a bunch, but not stopped, but im hopeful it will.

If not, That leak can be worked on without lowering the pond below the level it was all winter.

The pond currently is about 5" from the actual overflow. 

Won't be long before the peepers sing, it is April after all.  ffwave

Peepers haven't started up there yet? I just checked my notes and I heard the first one on 2/27/2024, last year I didn't hear them until about a month later. They make an amazing amount of noise, and I love it! 

End of April, first part of May here. Cold don't bother them too much as long as stuff doesn't turn into blocks of ice. They are tough.  ffcheesy

Cedar and I walked down this morning. We gained 3-4" in depth over night. It's dead calm out there, and I could not see any disturbances on the water surface. No movement of any surfaces,  but, there is still water moving slightly at the bottom of the dike, so its coming from somewhere.

The footprint of the pond is much bigger in just a day.

This Summer you may have to take the backhoe and dig down, cut a core trench, and then backfill/compact with new soil.  That way you would be fixing rather than patching.

Bentonite not only swells when it gets wet, it also changes the ion structure of most clay soils, much like a catalyst, and causes them to "slump" and flow into holes like gravy.  So the pond clay as well as the bentonite produce a flowable slurry.  Some clays work better than others, and there are easy ways to tell how well it might work, using a desk top experiment.  

I found more seeps this morning, up higher than the ones I worked on yesterday. I can tell you one thing, if you get a mixture of the native clay and the bentonite on your boots, you aint kicking or simply rinsing it off.

The first leaks yesterday, instantly clouded the outflow when I started giving them attention.
This mornings leaks, were just a swirl on the water over a couple inches of water. It took several minutes for the outflow to cloud on this find and repair. The outflow is getting harder to detect. It has went from having a visible ripple to it, to having to watch the debris in the water for movement.  I think Im getting there.

We watch where we walk when the well guys leave, you can track that stuff forever. I was somewhere below Butte driving on dirt roads in the rain in bentonite country, hit a section line correction and I think I saw the back end of the truck a half dozen times  ffcheesy. The porta potties out there all had that buff color.

I took the backhoe back yesterday to rake out the garbage from the base of the dike. That is whene I found where it was all coming from. A pushed over small tree, that still had the stump in the side of the dike and roots heading for the pond.  I know exactly where it is coming out now. More to come.

Before and now

You have made a dream come true.

Incredible change and work Jeff, it's beautiful!

Beautiful.  Lotsa difference from when PatD and I visited and saw it 13 years ago.  ffsmiley   :thumbsup:

Quite a transformation. Glad you were able to do what you wanted with your 'new' backhoe. Worked out well.  :thumbsup: :sunny:

I had forgotten about all the work you did 'pre-backhoe'. Just looks super. Can't wait until it greens up in a couple more weeks. ffcool Of course, then you'll have to mow  it once in a  while. ffcheesy

The ducks on that pond will be so happy they'll be smiling! :thumbsup:

Uh, Tom's comment above seems like it leads to an obvious comment by me... Even the slightest grade, on a mower, when wet, will suck a mower, even with chains on the tires, into a pond. 

I didn't get wet, but my small mower was just itching to go for a swim. Again, even with chains and locking differential she was not coming away without being towed out, and even then she was trying to roll over a bit. 

Ive been thinking lots of big rocks, which I have a good start on. 

I was nervous bigley with the backhoe down there this early. Should still be ice.

Quote from: Old Greenhorn on April 10, 2024, 09:50:53 AMI had forgotten about all the work you did 'pre-backhoe'. Just looks super. Can't wait until it greens up in a couple more weeks. ffcool Of course, then you'll have to mow  it once in a  while. ffcheesy

It's greening up amazingly fast.

Well, today and tomorrow should give me an answer on my leak repair. We are supposed to get an inch and a half by tomorrow afternoon. The pond level has only dropped a half inch this week. The first time it almost filled, it lost 12" in 2 days.  I'm hoping I get to see the legit overflow working by tomorrow.

Hopefully.

Looks really good.  The work you have gotten done on that place up there would give me much more enjoyment than any vehicle I've ever owned.  Just saying I think you made a good trade and it looks great. 

This is where I am meant to be. This is what I was meant to do. This is where I am happy.

That's how I feel here in Chesterville.

Wow wow wow wow wow.  Put my rain gear on and walked down. 1" from full. Full meaning reaching the actual overflow.

Its huge!  I see no evidence of leaking, but there is water everywhere. The pond looks huge!  And Beautiful!  Currently I can not fly my drone as it needs some sort of update that requires a p.c. to accomplish. 

Success!!!!

Very nice Boss ffcool

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/1000025065.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353388)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/1000025064.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353389)

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You've got plenty of water now.  ffcheesy ffwave

Ya gotta love it when a plan comes together! ffcool

what diameter is the overflow pipe jeff.  looks good.  you can now fine tune any dike areas based on the Roman level (water). :usa:   I like the color of the water.

6" overflow,  then 6" above that on the low end of the dike is an emergency spill over area. There is also shallow surge areas.

This photo is today, running slowly in the overflow, full pond.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/1000025109.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353393)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/1000025108.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353408)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/1000025104.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353409)

Them pictures are nice and bright and clean!!!

any surviving fish?  does the boat float?  Looks like cedar does not want to get the hair between his toes wet or dirty!   ffsmiley

Oh yes, the boat floats. It has been the source of many adventures. Certainly no reason there won't be fish, but the plan now that the pond is ready, to do some stocking. I need to build a solar aerator/ diffuser to keep it opening come winter.

This was after the pond was dug last fall.
Cedar has been a dirty mess all week. 

I did not know you are that close to the Great Lakes.  ffsmiley

Very pretty Jeff!

My water level is up, but still not near full. We've got ducks! Duckee and Scrooge.

How I fixed the leaks in the dike.

As you were drilling the holes I was waiting for oil to come squirting out 😀 so we could sing old Jeff's a millionaire.  Actually it looks like you have hit the jackpot from hard work. Being right off the lake a small windmill may help your  aerator in the winter months. 

Those soft(er) spots in the levee may gradually collapse and further seal themselves.  This could leave slight sinkholes or low spots which you may or may not even notice.  You will probably bring more dirt in and raise that portion of the levee anyway.

Anyway, looking good.  :thumbsup:

Pond is looking nice! :thumbsup: 
That bentonite clay is good stuff, used it to plug up are abandoned water well. They mine it out west, I used to haul flatbed loads of bags out of Wyoming and western South Dakota.

Roots, stumps, or other organic matter can leave a void over time when building up a grade. Good if they can be removed while the dirt is being dug, good you found it when you did. Even one of the excavator pro's on youtube who does pond building has had issues with leaking ponds, he just calls it "warrantee work". ffsmiley

Looks good Boss. I don't know about the dye. Is it ok for wildlife, fish? Do you get green/blue fish? or deer with green/blue mouth?  Can a human drink it? Or the bugs that are on top of the water ok?

kind of a messy eater!  gobble gobble.

Kinda like my youngest grandson.

I saw one of those turkeys this morning, but it had been hit by a vehicle and laying at the mouth of the drive way into a neighbor's house. Turkey for dinner.  ffcheesy ffcheesy

Been an old Tom with two hens around here.

That was cool.   ffsmiley

Two shots taken from what is now the solar powered camera on the pond. I built a solar array yesterday including an inverter and nighttime battery backup. When I get a few extra bucks I'm ready to add a planned aerator that will keep the pond from freezing. It is also powering a wifi extender  so,  totally wireless.

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/1000025290.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353594)
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Nice and useful installation.  

I keep intending to ask what is behind the orange barrier mesh, just nosy?  :uhoh:

Last fall, Furby gave me a ton of hasta plants that were to be discarded.  Within that 100ft perimeter fence, I planted 196 hasta plants. Deer are supposed to love em. I'm trying to get them established before we find out. 

OK, I remember the Hosta plants but I missed where they were planted.  Deer regularly mow PatD's Hosta plants here at home. 

It's surprising that they have not hopped over there.

So far, no sign of coming up. The roots look good, but everytheverything on top was dead and gone.

I have not look at my hostas, but doubt they are up yet.
Them things will spread too. If the deer don't kill them back.

Rhubarb is above ground here, but it is still early for some stuff. Only wild flower out yet here is colts foot, which has been out since March.

I'd like it if the deer loved, or even paid attention, to my hosta plants. I'm trying an experiment to train them by draping a piece of rubber roofing over them with a 5" hole cutout. May work, and may not. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/Hosta_control.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353597)

Quote from: Jeff on April 27, 2024, 10:30:10 AMSo far, no sign of coming up.

OK, I forgets about da Glaciers.  PatD's are just coming back from da deer nubbin them off.

First day I seen trout lily and purple trillium coming up in the woodlot.

Hosta just breaking ground here and that is on the south end of the garage. I don't see any up out by the road yet, but there is probably 6" of dead plant material laying on top of them. Grows like a jungle in that spot, dark rich ground. :D

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/hostas-April27-2024.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353599)

Looks like the leaking is stopped pretty well in the pond looks full from the pictures. 

There is still a slow seep that is hard to detect Tammy and I did some exploratory boring yesterday and found another wet root/route  we injected a series of holes with the two bags of bentonite we had. Im sure the leek is simply a layer of topsoil that was at the lowest part of the top of the original dike. It's actually seeping out of what would be my emergency spillway if my overflow, was never not enough. We planted hastas and Day lillies around the base of the solar array.

The aerator pump will sit beside the new battery, that my son donated out of a truck with a bad transmission. A hose will go to to diffusers on each side of the pond. 

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/1000025303.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353600)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/1000025302.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353601)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/1000025304.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353602)

(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/1000025305.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=353603)

Needs a few Bluegills now.   ffsmiley

Looks like you did a great job on the solar array.  Is that the recommended angle at your location?   :usa:

Quote from: doc henderson on April 28, 2024, 04:24:39 PMLooks like you did a great job on the solar array.  Is that the recommended angle at your location?  :usa:

Yes, for this time of year at due south. I can adjust the angle steeper as the year progresses. We used an App. :)

I looked at the hostas, they are up and doing good. 
The wood chucks are doing good too.  smiley_thumbsdown  I found 4 places that they are active. I am going to see if I can slow down the active part.  :wacky:

Need some red foxes around. Mine here cleaned up on the ground hogs I had for 2 years. Even saw the fox around yesterday on patrol. :)

When I had chickens, I had foxes. Maybe I need to get chickens again.  :wacky:
We always had wood chucks here.
Have not found anything to clean them out.

They seem to be in cycles like rabbits. They will get plentiful for a year or two, then the foxes clean house. We've always had groundhogs to, the foxes seem to know it's time to clean them out every so often.  ffcheesy I have not seen one around here since last spring. I did see one 2 miles up the road yesterday, the neighbor there said he saw a fox around to. So groundhog days are numbered. ffcheesy

We have resident foxes and rarely see ground hogs. 30 years ago there were lots of them around and foxes were seldom seen. Now we see foxes. We had some ground hogs move in a couple years ago or so. A buddy saw one with a little one day and thought I should get right after them and kill them before they undermined my farm buildings and multiplied more. I'd seen them around too. The foxes took care of the population. I'm still seeing foxes and haven't seen a ground hog since.

My sister and brother-in-law have Hosta's growing in their back yard. He likes to refer to them by the full Latin name: "Hosta La Vistas". :thumbsup:

Quote from: Resonator on April 29, 2024, 09:28:38 AMMy sister and brother-in-law have Hosta's growing in their back yard. He likes to refer to them by the full Latin name: "Hosta La Vistas". :thumbsup:

Also a white fir (Abies concolor) with that name

https://www.gardenia.net/plant/abies-concolor-hosta-la-vista

Built it, and they will come. All of them.

No bear pictures.  ffwave

Not so far this year. Still deciding if I want to hunt. I have 10 points. I could get a tag anytime I choose. Probably since we are having a pigroast, I won't hunt. That takes dedication of time

Will you hunt in your own land, or are those deer considered residents.  Should be easier if you know what is there, but if you begin to recognize then as individuals...  I will be sad to miss the pig roast, but it is my wife's birth month as she is about to become 60.  I think I will do well to concentrate on that.  We are going to a Morgan Wallen concert in KC she has planned for 6 months.  She enjoys going to FF events, but now I need to do the same for her.  birth month.   :wacky: ffsmiley

How close is the nearest other water source to this?  It sure is getting some wildlife traffic.  Pretty cool!

Once we get into summer, probably less than a quarter mile to the carlton Marsh leading to the st. Marys river across the road, in dry weather. 
 Really no shortage of water, just small water areas that get rare.

This will give you an idea of my surroundings. Pretty wild.

Doc, hunting on my propertyis always my goal, but I'll hunt anywhere there's game if given the opportunity.