I have a collection of old photos that I will try to show here on occasion. If you have some of your own, feel free to join in. (Please to not use images you find on the web. They are probably copyrighted)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/big_saws.jpg)
I've heard about the 2 way saws. What keeps the blade from running off? Harold
This one is not a picture, its a video clip. It should be of interest to Fla._Deadheader. :)
Click here for "Cutting Cypress" (https://forestryforum.com/cypress.htm)
Here are a couple I've posted before of my Uncle Chick and Aunt Nellie.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/UncleChickAuntNellie1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/UncleChick2.JPG)
Jeff do you have a photo of that band cutting a log ?
I don't have a picture of that mill but I have one of a pretty bigun. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/big_band_mill.jpg)
Neat video, Jeff. I could watch an hour or two of stuff like that. Thanks, Harold
I have a neat one that Paul_H sent me that has some cool clips in it from the 50's was it Paul? I will try to get some ready. That takes me a lot of time because the machine I am using is not powerful enough to process it very fast. I usually crash a few times while trying to capture on sequence. This is one that I had captured a while back, but had not formatted for the web til today.
Wow Jeff the mill and the log big wowlets see some more
Yeah Jeff,it was the late 50s, very early 60s at Inglewood on Vancouver Island.
I enjoyed that Cypress clip.Those guys had to be nimble.
I wonder if them boys could stand up on dry land! :)
I wonder how many of those guys made it through the apprinticeship. Must have been a wet learning curve.
Cutting cypress doesn't look like fun. Those are some BIG band saws :o 8)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/wanigan.jpg)
Jeff,
Any info. on approximate date and what river of photo??
Young Forester, February 1962. Checking heavily used deer trail in wintering area (deer yard). Sault Ste. Marie Ranger District on the old Marquette National Forest, now the east side of the Hiawatha National Forest.
Marquette National Forest was renamed by Executive Order of President Kennedy.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/young_forester.jpg)
No info on the river photo Ron. Many of these photos are from old Industry or government pamphlets from the first half of the last century. This next one comes from Paul Bunyans Quiz; Questions and Answers about the Forest put out by the American Forest Products Industry in Washington. Circa 1950.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/hand_felling.jpg)
Hand Planting Red Pine. Reforesting the Spectacle Lake Fire area on the Soo District, Hiawatha National Forest. Fall 1962.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/hand_planting_red_pine,%201962.jpg)
Foresters Cruise Timber. Winter 1963; Sault Ste. Marie Ranger District; Hiawatha National Forest.
Note the vintage Polaris snowmobile used for winter travel.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/foresters_cruise_timber_1963.jpg)
"Holy Mackeral Andy!", What a pine tree.
Would that be one of them "Ponderosa Pine's" ???
I have heard that some of the Heart Pine we are looking for, would measure 10 feet across. That's hard to believe. :o
Looks like Ponderosa to me. Back when loging was still within the law in northern Arizona you could see a log truck with 2 logs like that for a load once a week or so at a mill. I never loged lumber down ther but my Dad and I cut 16 cords of firewood from a big old Alligatog Juniper neer Camp Wood Arizona so I do rember some BIG trees.
Andy
http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/commerce/c027531.jpg suwanee
http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/reference/rc00875.jpg tallahassee
http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/reference/rc02346.jpg wekiva river
http://fpc.dos.state.fl.us/reference/rc04997.jpg 3000 years
deadheader here are some logs that may not have made it out of the suwanee river.
Here is a wealth of photos. I tried to send several but they were too big..
Allright. Thanks for posting those URL's. The Wekiva River is off limits. Too scenic ???? You can actually see the logs laying on the bottom. Harold
I guess they saved the little ones for the chainsaws...
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/power_felling.jpg)
Many Many old Michigan Lumbering and Logging Photos.
http://www.michiganepic.org/lumbering/photoarchive/archive1/index.htm
Did you notice the cord on the two man chainsaw? My neighbor has an old Stihl two man electric chain saw. Wonder what kind of generator they had and how they packed it around.
Noble
Timber Cruisers have lunch in the forest. Michigan's Eastern U.P. Winter 1963.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/timber_cruisers_at%20lunch_winter%201963.jpg)
Aspen Bolts to be sawn into fish box material for commercial fishermen. St. Ignace, Michigan. May 1964.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/aspen_bolts_fish_boxes_1964.jpg)
I live along Pine Creek in North Central PA. The lumber industry has a long history around here. I've always found it to be fascinating.
About 30 years ago, Thomas Taber put together SUNSET ALONG SUSQUEHANNA WATERS. These are from that book.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/woodhicks%20small.jpg)
These guys are running a log skid.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/splashdam%20small.jpg)
This is a slashdam that was used to wash logs down stream in an artificial flood. I know a place on Pine Creek where there are still timbers from a splashdam that can be seen when the water is really low. The only trace of the town that used to sit next to the dam is a small cemetary.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/unjambing%20splash%20small.jpg)
After a splash, the logs would have to be followed downstream to clear jams. This was often done during snowmelt.
When floating logs down the Susquehanna got more organized, the susquehanna boom was built near Williamsport, PA. It was more than 7 miles long. It had a shear boom to let rafts through but it grabbed all of the lose logs. It could hold 300,000,000 boardfeet. Every log was sorted and delivered to the proper mill in Williamsport. Initially, the charge was $1/mbf. Millionaires were made from this "arrangement" but not everybody was happy.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/loading%20railcar%20small.jpg)
The boom ran from 1862 to 1909. There's a lot more to the story but, basicly, rails ended up doing the hauling.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/boom%20from%20distance%20small.jpg)
This is the Susquehanna boom in operation. Those rock piers are still in the river.
Here is a the first of several video clips from the tape that Paul_H sent to me. A logging train . Maybe he can comment further on each clip.
Logging Train (https://forestryforum.com/media/train.htm)
Jeff,
I will try to phone Pat Conway today,to refresh my memory on the video.(They were Pat's old 8mm home movies)It was tranfered to VHS in 1989.
Den
If you look in the backrground of your first picture, you can see how they used to skid those big logs out by horsepower. There is a really nifty skid trail consisting of split rails. They used to grease those up so that horses could skid them to a landing. Then loaded onto a railcar. It also seems that they used to use the drainage areas ... ie the streams.
Williamsport, PA was the lumber capital of the world in 1850. My, how times have changed. They used to have mills that produced 250 MMbf of lumber per year. 30 Mbf/day was the norm for edging strrips that were turned into kindling for the New York City markets. Most modern mills in our area don't produce that much.
I sit back in awe to see what they used to do 100 years ago as compared to what we can do with our "modernaization". Our mills are smaller, and where we can log is limited by mechanics. I used to mark timber to an area where guys could drag a winch line to. Then I would go up slope another 100 yds. and find a charcoal flat.
One thing to keep in mind that the best production for a shift was set in New Hampshire around 1910 (I believe). Over 100 Mbf in a shift (12 hrs).
If you happen to be travelling near Coudersport, Pa on Rt.6. Make time to stop at the Pa. Lumbermans Museum. They have lots of old photos and displays of the way of life in the turn of the century logging camps. They also have a working vintage circle mill used for demostrations. Well worth the trip.
This picture hangs in our living room.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/loggers.jpg)
Loading an old log truck
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/old_log_truck.jpg)
Loading Jack Pine Pulpwood. Michigan's Eastern U.P.; Spring 1963.
Note loader operator and deck hand needed to control the pulpwood bunch for straight decking on truck bed.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/loading_jack_pine_1963.jpg)
Guys, I really enjoy these old pics. Keep 'em coming. Thanks, Harold
I love these old photos. What we have here is an online museum! :P
I love them old pictures too. Got a chance yesterday to page through them. I kept thinking - "I wonder what the suicide rate was for them logging camps and such?" SNOW, SNOW and more SNOW! And where there wasn't snow up to your adenoids, it still looked overcast and dismal.
It's been overcast, rainy and cool here for the past week and I'm about to check into a clinic or head south. And we still have green grass and the trees are turning autumn colors.
Early Boom Loader. Sometimes the operator didn't have a "swamper" and had to be "two places" at once.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/early_boom_loader_1963.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/log_wash.jpg)
That last picture made me think of Arkansawyer and his Geese
Made me hafta go !
Noble
This is worth linking to again for this thread. Its a recreation of a magazine article from "Outlook" in the 1920s. It includes some old pics. Some of you may not have seen this. I aquired the original article a while back.
https://forestryforum.com/modern_lumberjack.htm
International R-190 Series Log Hauler with Pentice Loader. Early model.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/international_with_%20prentice_loader_1963.jpg)
I don't know how much scanning and resizing my head is going to be able to handle tonight but I'll try a couple more.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/smaller%20mill%20small.jpg)
Notice the chute left of center.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/major%20creek%20pollution%20small.jpg)
All wood waste goes down the chute and into the creek. A major problem when the water was down.
They have one of the loaders at the Lumberman's museum west of Coudersport that was mentioned above.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/Barnhart%20loader%20small.jpg)
That place is a nice place to visit.
Notice all the "scrap" logs in these old photos?? Remember, this is mostly VIRGIN timber. Grandad used to tell about the 18" clear red oak boards he used to haul off the mill and throw into the burn pile. Couldn't GIVE it away, he said ???
When I worked for the railroad back in the early to mid '60s, we used to haul gondola after gondola full of pine stumps. I was told that they were being shipped up to either Georgia or Tennessee to make gunpowder. I never figured out how they burned so many stumps unless they used some kind of gas furnace with super hot temperatures. I often wonder if they still use stumps for gunpowder or if they found something else. :P ::)
Charlie, I think that they were being shipped to be distilled for turpines. If the cellulose was used in gun powder, it was a secondary use.
You are probably right. I was just repeating what another railroader told me and he was probably guessing. How the cathair did they get turpentine out of those stumps, Don? Do you know? When I say gondola after gondola of stumps I mean in the hundreds of gondolas. Must've been a lot of land clearing somewhere. Nice to know they had a use for the whole tree.
As far as I know, they're still making gunpowder from pine stumps. Ther are folks making a living pushing them up and shipping them to Brunswick, Ga., where there is a gunpowder plant. They make pretty good money from it, too. I think they can only use old growth stumps, so the industry is sort of petering out, around here. I guess, when we run out of old growth pine, we'll have to find a new way to blow ourselves up.
Early Pettibone Cable Skidder for Tree Lenghth Skidding. Manufactured in Baraga, MI. 1965 Photo.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/pettibone_cable_skidder_1965.jpg)
Scaling a Load of Cedar from National Forest land. St. Ignace, MI; Fall 1966.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/scaling_load_of_cedar.jpg)
There's a local logger around here that was running a Pettibone just like that one as late as last spring that I know of and I'd bet it's still in the woods working.
Gunpowder? yer DanG tootin'
Hercules Powder Company buys stumps and will stump your land if you have good ones. There is a lack of big ol' fat lighter stumps like there once was so Hercules has even experimented with injecting trees that are due harvest to try to create a fat stump. How much success there was, I don't know. They still have some stump buyers in the woods. I talked to one the other day in Folkston, Ga.
Hercules Brunswick Plant click for info (http://www.chemicalguide.com/Public_Pages/What_We_Do.cfm?Params=Hercules%20Incorporated%3DBrunswick%20Plant)
Underwater Logs. Salvaged from North Twin Lake; Phelps, Wisconsin; 1960.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/underwater_logs_1960.jpg)
That's exactly what ours look like. Notice the rounded ends. Thats the way they look from the water current, kind of sandblasting the edges. Nice logs !! Harold
Harold,
Bet you didnt know that our Ron Scott is an avid diver and the Author of a book on underwater logging. Written in the 60s!
I got me a signed copy and I sure am proud of that! (https://forestryforum.com/smile/thumb.gif)
I hope to get him to give me permission someday to put it on the web.
Any idea where a fella could get a copy of Ron's book? I'd sure like to have one. Howzabout it, Ron?
Hey, I got an even better idea! Ron, get back with the publishers and have another printing done...mebbe 5,000 copies, or so. JeffB could buy'em all and use them for ForestryForum gifts.
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Yup. But I'll have to use the DanG bank to do it. ;D
HEY HEY. I want one of them books too !!!! It's GOTTA be signed. No Ginerical copies fer me, RON. What's the scoop on the name and availability??? Can I get Ron to come down and show me how to do this?? I'm always lookin fer a better way to do things. Why hasn't this news flash appeared sooner??? Youse guys been holdin out on me ??? >:( :o ;) ;) :'( :'( :D :D Harold
Ok
Where's my book
Did you get them all signed??? :D
Woe!
I Don't want this to get out of hand now. I don't know what the availability is of the book if any, or what the price is now.
The Book is Titled
Underwter Logging.
Cornell Maritime Press,Inc.
1964
Currently out of print
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/underwater_logging.jpg)
It's ranked #561,846 at Amazon. There are no copies available, but you can put in an order.
Powell's doesn't have it either.
Here's one way of doin it! Kinda sneaky. Not my way !!
Displaying books where
Author is Cayford, John E.
Title is Underwater Logging / By John E. Cayford and Ronald E. Scott.
New Books: 1 - 1 of 1
Click on the price to find out more about a book
# Bookseller Notes Price
1 Alibris
[United States] Cambridge, MD Cornell Maritime Press, ill c. 1964 Softcover Print On Demand: 2002 black and white facsimile of original book. Charts and graphics may be obscured or resized to fit pages. No cover art (generic softcover binding). This title may be back ordered. pp. 93. $29.95
( All matching new books shown )
Used Books: 1 - 1 of 1
Click on the price to find out more about a book
# Bookseller Notes Price
1 AstroLogos Books
via Bibliology AS NEW - Print-to-order B&W REPRINT of original book published: Cambridge MD : Cornell Maritime Press c1964. ill.93 Pages. Expertly printed on acid-free archival quality paper - Softcover perfect bound (or Hardcover Cloth Buckram binding for additional $10.) Charts photographs & graphics may reproduce less than perfectly & may be reduced to fit pages. SPECIAL ORDER Allow 6 to 8 weeks for delivery. No Refund or Exchange. $36.00
( All matching used books shown )
I have used that alibris service a couple of times myself. They have inventories of book stores all over the world and find the book you want and it is shipped directly to you from the store. I found a couple books there that were not available anywhere else. It proved to be a great service, but it could come down the specific store that has the book and how they handle it. I talked with a guy who was in the Grand Rapids Press a couple years ago who "fished" logs out of the northern great lakes. The water is cold and low oxygen so the logs are preserved well. It was really neat to see the wood. They either sold it to high end furniture makers, or super quality veneer makers. Some of the prices on the logs were amazing, but where are you going to get that type of wood again? We used to get a couple logs a year out of the Muskegon river, but now if you move a log you will get a ticket and fine. I still have a couple end marks around somewhere.
It's great seeing these old pictures! Here's one I found on another forum, so it's not copyrighted. This is what the poster had to say about it:
I am told by the Kentucky state historian that this picture was taken in the late 30's or early 40's in eastern Kentucky--I don't know the town. We are guessing that the tree is a large poplar or possibly a white oak. There are many records of trees this size taken out of Kentucky and West Virginia in the late 1800s and early 1900s.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/Forum-bigtrees.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/dozer_pulling%20_logs.jpg)
I recently found an old book of my dads that was titled "Farm Forestry". I thought I would try to share some of the old photos that were in it I hope I can post the picture all right. This will be my first time to try.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/oldhorseloggin.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/crosscutting.jpg)
I know what that is. It's a log marker. Those guys mark the lengths with that tool so the fellow with the chain saw knows where to buck it. ;D
Looks to me like they are making ties. I've seen some on old rail beds that were hewn on 2 sides.
I'd like to see the Kentucky mill that handled those logs. I believe that they would be tulip poplar. White oak that size would have been to heavy to lift or pull with those trucks. Good thing they didn't have any red lights to go through. They would be hanging off the top of the logs. :D
When I lived in Ar. the old timers told me about the way they handled the "big'uns". They rolled 'em on the truck from the side, using the team. When they reached the mill, a couple of holes were bored in and then "homemade" powder was put in the holes, and a cap was detonated. Would split "real good". :o Then they went on the mill.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/paul__old_yarder.jpg)
Near Squamish BC 1950s.
Swinging a coldeck to the home tree.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/Paul_steam_donkey.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/paul_gravel_trucks.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/paul_track_loader.jpg)
Hey Paul, whats the story on the last picture. Is that road construction with a rock drill?
Those big logs on the trucks have been a post card out here for years. I always assumed they were Doug Fir from the Oregon, Washington or B.C. The bark on them doesn't appear to be Redwood so that rules out California.
Tillaway,
Some of the pictures,like the last one,were given to me by an old timer named Wayne Boyd.He was an old blacksmith originally when he came to Squamish in the 40s.He had his own machine shop on the main drag,and used to build butt rigging,and tongs,press highlead chokers, etc.His hobby was photography,he could repair old pictures and blow them up larger.
Him and I traded old logging pictures.I took several old ones that people gave me,and he would make prints for both of us.
Wayne died at a ripe old age,near 10 years ago,and now that info is gone forever.
I think that machine is some type of front end loader.I don't know that for sure,and if you look close,there is a steering wheel,but it's a track machine.
Guesses anyone?
Underwater Logs At Lake Side. The salvaged logs, yellow birch, sugar maple, and white pine submerged in 1912 in North Twin Lake, Phelps, Wisconsin.
The Logs were recovered during the summer of 1960 from depths of 20-30 feet for the nearby C.W. Christiansen Company Sawmill.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/underwater_logs_at_lakeside.jpg)
The Book,Underwater Logging. It was published January 22, 1965 by Cornell Maritime Press, Inc. and is now out of print.
The copyright was transferred to me and co-author Jack Cayford on May, 2001.
An orginal copy might yet be obtained by contacting my co-author: John E. Cayford
272 Center Street
Bangor, Maine 044401-3858
(207) 947-0008
If he has some still available. If not, I can provide a copy of the original as previously shown above by Jeff. The current cost for a bound duplicated copy is $15.00 if interested.
It has become a collectors item since underwater log salvage or the removal of " woody debris" from lakes and streams has become quite restrictive due to numerous state environmental laws, rules, and regulations.
Michigan has currently placed a "hold" on any underwater log salvage pending further study.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/Paul_swing_coldeck.jpg)
Merrill&Ring logging operated a railroad logging operation in Squamish BC from the 1920s-1940s.That was how my Dads family ended up in Squamish,Grandpa heard there was work,and hired on as a handfaller in 1935.
The pictures here are of M&R swinging a coldeck to the trackside.It is a skyline setup,with the mainline coming out through the fall block,up to the carriage on the skyline,and back down to the fall block for maximum lift.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/paul_trackside.jpg)
Loading railcars on the trackside
Paul,
Our flatland friends might need an explaination what skylines and highleads are and how the most common are rigged. I could try but someone that actually uses them would do a much better job. Think of it as beginning Cable 101.
Till,
Swamp logging, contrary to popular belief, requires a lot of cabling. Topped cypress are used to run overhead cable into the swamp to get the rest out. A lot more common in earlier years than now, it is still used in river swamps.
I didn't know that !!! Thought ya had to float 'em out !!! :D :D :D
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/cypress2.jpg)
Cable would work well for that, never knew y' all was doing that.
Old Time Steam Hauler. Responsible for the removal of a great many Upper Michigan Logs. The picture was taken in Chippewa County about 1901.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/old_steam_hauler.jpg)
That would be perfect for pulling an old steam powered LT15. :D
There is a steam hauler like that on display in Wabeno, WI. Wabeno is an old logging town on highway 32 just south of Laona. They actually fire it up once a year for show.
That is an overs sized "snowmobile". 8) P
Paul, that Donkey on that sled, reminds me of the dozens and dozens my father use to haul around the old Tillamook burn region in the Early 40s and late 30s. ;D
Frank,
You are fortunate to have seen them in their day,I have only seen a couple in museums,and a few relics in the bush.
I have spent hours listening to oldtimers talk about logging in the 1920s through early 60s.Most of the real old timers have gone,but they all agreed that steam donkeys were extremely fast,and powerful.Bill Dublack,who is in his eighties now,said they were man killers,had to run all day long.
Then came the gas fakes,then the diesels.
There was one of those old steam donkeys running into the 1940's near Reedport, OR. When the donkey puncher shut it down the last day he used it he just walked away and no one ever moved it until.... Someone heard the story told by the donkey puncher in the late 70's early 80's and decided to find the guy. Long story short the old puncher remembered where it was (bottom of a nasty hole), led them to it and now it's running again and at a museum in Douglas county.
I know an oldtimer that grew up in a Simpsom lumber logging camp in Washington. He remembers the old gas yarders or more specifically the flames that shot out the exhaust pipes in the early morning just before light. They would light up the top of the hill like a volcano.
I'm stealing this picture from another thread.It is a 1010(ten ten)Lawrence on a sleigh.The 1010 had,I'm pretty sure a 6 cyl Chrysler flat head.They were a popular little workhorse in the 40s&50s.I have just the winch,no motor in the back of my place.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/1010.jpg)
Now, that is what you call a hillside steeper than a cows face. :D
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/highrigger.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/highrigger_topped.jpg)
Do people still drop trees like that anymore?
Nice looking spar pole, Paul. When that top went the main trunk swayed at least 10 to 15 ft., I am sure. :)
I don't know if those pictures were from Merill&Ring,or from Wayne Boyds collection.
Yeah Frank,they want to follow the top for awhile.
Noble_Ma,
Yes they still top trees for spars&back spars if needed.Not all backspars need to be topped.Tree services top on a regular basis,to take the sail out of a tree near homes to prevent wind throw,or to take down a danger tree in a tight spot.
Hopefully GF_Beranek will be posting pictures of his tree topping soon.There is a thread under the Forestry&Logging Section.with his name.
Civilian Conservation Corp (CCC) Crew. Planting trees in furrows on the Hiawatha National Forest.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/ccc_crew_planting_trees.jpg)
CCC Trucks. Loaded with gravel at the Castle Rock pit for a road construction project. Near St. Ignace, Michigan on the Old Marquette National Forest.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/ccc_gravel_trucks.jpg)
I want to recommend a book. You can usually always find a copy on e-bay. I can't use any of the pictures from it on here for obvious reasons but they are spectacular. I think everyone of you should try to get a copy.
It is from the Time Life series the old west and it is the volume "The Loggers". It is a leather-like bound book and just wonderful. I paid $2.50 for my copy on ebay, and it can be had for around $12.00 usually and cheeper if you are patient. just go to ebay and search with the word "loggers". If you have never bought on e-bay I would highly recommend this as a first purchase.
Here are a couple more pics from my collection. Fire watch tower and an old fire water truck.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/firetower.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/fire_water_truck.jpg)
I saw a video at TCI where a guy was taking down a top from a leaner he had climbed.
The top was tied off to a bull line, it was cut and let fall way too far.
The rope broke at the knot on the piece being dropped and the spar the guy was gaffed into came back and hit him square between the eyes knocking him out of the tree.
His life line got tangled and prevented him from sailing back into the main spar where his brains would have been scrambled for a second time.
His hardhat and chainsaw went flying somewhere into another township!
The last time I saw him he was hanging upside down like a limp noodle.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/oldloggers.jpg)
Does anyone have any Ideas what these two guys from the early 1900s were doing? I don't know much about the picture(it was on another website) but it mentioned boom chains.The square holes would fit a boom chain toggle,and it looks like they had the stump wrapped for snubbing a heavy load.
Anybody? I'd sure like to know.
My sister is always kidding me I am going to have to move out and turn my house into a museum for the stuff I collect.
Paul_H and I got talking about caulk boots somehow in an email and I thought I would share this here. I have a pair circa the turn of the last century. Here they are in front of a poster size Derrian Kinsey photocopy I have. These gentlemen were wearing boots almost identical to the ones that I have.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/caulk_boots.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/caulk_boots3.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/caulk_boots2.jpg)
I'll bet their wives make them take their boots off before they come into the house.
I wonder if they used the job at the logging camp to cover up for their daily golf game? :D
I wonder how long you would have lasted if you tried to tell them about the wonders of golf. :D They would have showed you the wonders of flight.
I forgot to mention that these boots are about a size 8. I know people were smaller back then and I am not sure if an 8 would be average or not. The boots fit Stacy perfectly. They are in pretty good shape considering the age. The leather is still pretty supple.(sp?)
you need to keep some Neatsfoot oil on them
No not Neatsfoot oil on them! It's great for the leather but will ROT the linnen (cotten) stiching out and thay will fall apart! If the stiching is nylon or other non roting stuff then you cant beet good old Neatsfoot oil. Use Leather New or some other of the gllisarin type saddle soap on old things with cotten stichwork, I like the spray on Leather New the best.
Andy
I am hestitant to use anything on them. They are in such good shape now. They won't be worn, they won't be in and out of different climates, so shouldnt I just leave them alone? I don't think anybody has done anything to them in the last 70 years.
Jeff,
Do you know where the caul boots came from or anything about their past use, the user, boot maker etc? You will need to set up a "logging museum" is Harrision pretty soon.
World's Fair Load. February 26, 1899; Ontonagan River area in Michigan's Upper Penninsula.
The forum needed to have this photo.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/world::s_fair_log_load.jpg)
OK Ron, I'll bite. What was the "worlds fair load" all about? Scott
An old pair of "corks" huh. You can still use them and rebuilds, even for the real old ones, aren't a problem... if the leather uppers are still good. You just can't get the "drive ins" anymore. Thats the type of chaulks in the bottom, the company that has made them for ages finally quit making them. There seems to be a lack of demand for them any more.
scott,
The 1899 Columbian Exposition, or World's Fair, was held in Chicago to commemorate the 400th anniversary of the discovery of America.
The World's Fair load of logs was hauled by the estate of Thomas Nester to the Ontonagon River on February 26, 1899. Hauled on bunks 16 feet long, nine flat cars were required to convey the logs to Chicago. This world record load of logs was part of the State of Michigan's exhibition. It was, and still is, the largest load of logs ever pulled by one span of horses.
The load consisted of fifty 18 foot-long white pine logs on a sleigh scaling 36,055 feet and weighed 140 tons. The sleigh was made of bird's eye maple with heavily ironed runners. The load was 18 feet long, 18 feet wide, and 33 feet 3 inches high. It was pulled by a team weighing about 3500 pounds.
There is a replica load in the town of Ewen, it is my understanding that is where the load originated.
That is a truly impressive feat for two horses,and the men!
I was also pondering that my Grandpa was just two months old when that picture was taken.A lot happens in a hundred years.
But caulk boots remain pretty well as uncomfortable now,as they must have been a hundred years ago.
DanG! Now that is a forwarder. Thanks for the info Chet. Scott
Chet,
Thanks for the details on the Chicago World's Fair Logging Exhibit. Your file is better than mine on the details. Someone usually asks what the board foot volume was and how did only two horses pull it? I believe there were actually more at the time but photo only captures two.
World's Fair Load of Logs. Side view, white pine logs. February 26, 1899, Ontonagan River; Michigan's U.P.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/world::s_fair_white_pine_load.jpg)
A 3500 lb. team would be 2 horses but I wouldn't want to be one of them. As tall as that load is it could fall forward or backward as easily as side to side. :-/
They must have put some kind of "slick'em" on the snow :D
They had special sleds that cut groves that were then filled with water. The runners of the big sleds would then run on the ice while the horses or oxen would be in the packed snow or dirt where they could get good footing. They would spread hay down on the ice to control the speed going down hills. Young boys just starting out in the woods would maintain the roads generally teamed up with an old man who could no longer handle the harder work. My great grand father told stories of horses that would get right down on their bellies to get a load moving, and sometimes even shear off the nails holding the shoes on their feet.
They would use 2 teams to start the loads,maybe more on this one, then take the extra team off after the load was free.
The Maine logging museum in Patten,Maine has a site that gives a nice description of building ice roads.
Horse Team with Sled Load. A more reasonable load for the working team.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/horse_team_and_sled_load.jpg)
Teamsters With Their Teams At Logging Camp. Now a part of the Manistee National Forest; Circa 1890's
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/teamsters_with_teams.jpg)
A "Team" Photo At The Logging Camp, circa 1890's.
The person second from the right is the father of Howard Nixon. Howard was a local resident, WW II hero, and a retired Forestry Technician on the Cadillac Ranger District, Manistee National Forest.
Howard passed away due to a heart attack while deer hunting last winter and was the source of several of my early logging camp photos from this area.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/logging_team_at_camp.jpg)
Lumberjacks In Camp. Camp in area to later become part of the Manistee National Forest. Northern Lower Michigan. Howard's dad is front row center just to the right of the stove, circa 1890's.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/lumberjacks_in_camp.jpg)
Camp Photo. Taken outside the Logging Camp in northwestern Lower Michigan. Note the camp cooks and children on right side of photo. Circa 1890's.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/logging_camp_photo_outside.jpg)
Narrow Gauge Railroad With Rail Car Of Sawlogs. Howard Nixon's dad is standing in front center on the tracks holding peavy. Note the horse teams on each side of the rail car. Northern Lower Michigan logging; circa 1890's.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/narrow_gauge_railroad_sawlogs.jpg)
Ron
Those are some of the best old pictures I have ever seen. Keep them coming. This place always has something interesting .
I got a request to come over and cut off a stump left by some tree guys last week. Showed up and got to yackin with the owner and he was looking at my saw, and he started telling me about how his dad was a logger, and how they grew up logging in the U.P. I asked if he has any pictures and such, and he is going to look for some and let me borrow to scan and copy. Now normally I would not think this was too out of the ordinary, Except the guy, Frank, is black. I asked him if there were any other black families around when he was a kid, and he could not remember too many, and none were loggers for sure. I thought it was unique, and look forward to adding his pictures to my collection and here. I looked at all the pictures here, and I do not see any. As we talk over the days, the story grows and grows. Seems his old man may have been evading the authorities in the south and needed to start a new life where no one would ever look for him. I cant think of a better place! I will post them as soon as I get them. JB
The Michigan "Big Wheel". Early time log forwarder with "live" horsepower. Northern Lower Michigan; circa 1890's.
There are several "Big Wheels" still on display at Logging Museums around the Lake States.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/big_wheel_log_forwarder.jpg)
Buggy Ride Through The Pines. Note nearby narrow gauge railroad. Northwestern Lower Michigan; circa 1890's.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/buggy_ride_through_pines.jpg)
Lumber Was King In Michigan
In 1837, 435 sawmills were active in Michigan, and by 1873, when lumbering activity in Wexford County (Cadillac, MI area) was just getting started, their existerd over 1600 sawmills in the state.
To date, almost 50 sawmills can be attributed to Wexford County.
Michigan ranked number one in lumber production in the late 1800's, with 1890 being the peak year, producing 4,250 billion board feet. By 1899, much of the pine had been harvested and Michigan slipped in ranks to number two. By 1911, Michigan had dropped to number 10. By the early 1930s the timbering was all but over.
That buggy ride could be in parts of Washington or most of BC Canada today, dont look much like the Michigan I been to with trees all in a line like a grove. I just love them big old trees like that!
Andy
Yes much of the "Lands That Noby Wanted" (the book by that title authored by William E Shands and Robert Healy is a good history reference) after all the timber harvesting was reforested with pine plantations and natural regeneration of other species such as aspen etc.
Much done after establishment of the Manistee and Huron National Forests here and the CCC's.
Lumber Dock. Much of Michigan's early lumber was moved by water during the 1800s.Much went for rebuilding after the Chicago fire. Northern Lower Michigan; circa 1880s.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/lumber_docks.jpg)
Log Loading Machine. Used in the old days near Cadillac, MI. Circa, after 1881.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/log_loading_machine_1881.jpg)
Note the placement of pulleys and long ropes which made possible dragging logs from a considerable distance on both sides and in front of the log loader to the railroad cars and then lifted and placed on the flatcar as shown towards the right of the picture.
Thats cool 8) Works just like an old steam gold dredge. You can see the line tyed to the stump in the forground up to the jib and there would be one out the other side so the thing could rotate by the 2 winch lines. Also use them to pull (drag?) the machine forward. The old steam gold dredge was in a pond floting on pontoons and to move it moved the pond with it, do you know if this sat on rail or what?
Andy
Look sumpin like this ?? :D :D
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/dredge.jpg)
Some of the log loading machines were on rail and some weren't. I may find a photo of one on rail after the rails accessed an area.
McGiffert Log Loader
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/McGiffert_log_loader.jpg)
The construction of this unit permitted it to go along the railroad tracks and let the flatcars pass under it.
The unit was steam operated and was used to load logs onto railroad cars for shipment to the sawmills near Cadillac, MI; circa 1885.
Yup, Deadheader just like that. Is that one around Farrbanks or Nome? GPAA was running one on Criple River (neer Nome) till about 1996 or so, it's still there and in working order. Dont know why thay shut it down but I bet the Buzzard's death had a lot to do with it.
BTW Deadheader, your at the wrong end of that unless you had a Goldbug or a Wight's with you. ;)
Andy
Nope. All Minelabs. I was contemplatin jumpin in the water and checkin out the bottom. There just HAS to be some good gold down there !!!! 8) ::)
This one is at Ganes Creek, near McGrath. The amount and size of the nuggets that were spit out the back, is amazing !!!
Yea I know! Thay were set to get the tons and tons of fine gold and not the nuggets! 8) Minelabs would do the trick! 8) 8) You would never keep that diver of yours happy in that Alaska water if he's gripeing about the cold down there!
Andy
AAAAHHHHHHHHH. But, I know some guys in Alaska that own drysuits. I'm SURE, that for a split, I could borry me one !!!
Cobbs & Mitchell Logging Camp. East of Cadillac, Michigan 1885.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/cobbs_mitchell_logging_camp.jpg)
Headquarters Camp. One of the camps of the Cummer Logging Company. It acted as headquarters while timber was being cut in quite a large area around the camp near Cadillac, Michigan. Circa 1887.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/headquarters_camp_circa%201887.jpg)
Dumping Logs. Unloading logs from railroad cars into the waters of Lake Cadillac for local sawmills. Circa 1886.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/dumping_logs_circa%201886.jpg)
Large Log Depot Built by a lumber company close to Cadillac, MI. Throughout the winter time, trees were cut and skidded with teams across the snow or with the use of the big wheels to central loacations where they could be loaded on railroad cars to be brought to the mills in Cadillac. Shown is one of the large areas with a new railroad grade built to it. These huge piles of logs were, in turn, to be placed on railroad cars operating on this new railroad extension and brought to Cadillac. Circa 1886.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/log_depot_near_Cadillac_circa_1886.jpg)
Michigan's Big Wheel. Hauled large logs near Cadillac, Michigan; circa 1888.
Chains were fastened around the logs and to the axel between the wheels. The long tongue, shown being held up by a pole, raised the logs sufficiently off the ground so that they could be moved. It was quite a knack to properly load the logs so that by controlling the speed of the horses, the tongue would slightly raise or lower the logs to act like a brake.
The use of such wheels made it possible to haul the logs over narrow forest trails during the spring, summer, and fall. Previously the logs were dragged across the frozen ground, in the winter time.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/michigan_big_wheel.jpg)
Lima-built Shay. Shay Locomotive No 195 later known as Mitchell Brothers No.2, hauling a large load of logs from a point northeast of Jennings, Michigan to sawmills at Jennings. Circa 1880s.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/lima_built_shay%20No.%20195.jpg)
Shay Locomotive; August 12, 1882. Built by the Michigan Iron Works in Cadillac, MI shown in the Cummer Lumber Company Yards in Cadillac, MI with 45 cars containing 393 logs scaling 60,937 board feet. The engine weighed 10 tons and was built at a cost of $3,000.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/shay_locomotive_at_cummer_yard.jpg)
Loading a Flat Car. Logs loaded onto a Cummer-Diggins railroad car near Hoxeyville, Michigan to be brought to their mill in Cadillac, Michigan. circa 1880.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/loading_a_flat_car.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/i-2_B_L.jpg)
I just made a post in the forestry and logging section about an interesting site I found this morning, then I went back to work on what I was doing and found this site, I am on a roll!
http://www.rbadesign.net/logging.html
Thanks for the site, Jeff B. I placed in on my favorites, in order to keep updated with the new comments and photos. :)
Always nice to have another forum of interest, wouln't you say? ;D Sawmiller always have so much time on their hands. Look at all of the folks we have here. You would think we had nothing better to occupy our time. :-/
I ran across this link on the Missouri Department of Conservation web site. It's the story about Grandin, MO. site of a large sawmill in the 1880-1190 era.
Grandin (http://www.conservation.state.mo.us/forest/cenfore/grandin.htm)
They had a great video of the same topic but I've not found it referenced on their web site. Also, one on the T.J. Moss tie company.
I have been through tons of phot boxes in antique shops in the past and always only find pictures of people. What they call instant family pictures. I wonder everytime I start looking why I am wasting my time.
Till today. ;D
Jeremy and I took my old saw blade over to Traverse City to Ace Welding today. On the way home I saw a little ole shop that I had never noticed before. I came across a box full of Aunt Mernas and Uncle Clems and started going through it. It said on the box that any picture was $1.00
I found this. 8) I did a little cut out to show it has printed copyright 190? on it. I think its a 4 but has been cut off apparently for a frame.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/log_sled.jpg)
Now, that is a nice whack of logs, Jeff. You have a good idea there of going out looking for old pictures such as that. I will have to try and remember to do the same. Thanks. ;D
Thought y'all might enjoy looking at these old pictures of old sawmills and logging on the Minnesota History Center site.
http://www.mnhs.org/places/sites/fhc/photos.html
Ran across this one over at ytmag's old truck site.
http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/trucks/trphoto_pic.cgi?pic=http;//www.ytmag.com/trucks/trphotos/a286.jpg&firstrec=1&lastrec=15&Parameter=
I found this photo on E-Bay. It said large indelible marker streak across left mans face. Not restorable sold as is. I was the only bidder and bought it for 1 dollar and 99 cents. What the heck I thought.
I got it today. Just on an urge, I wet my finger and lightly rubbed the ink. It came right off! HAH!! What a deal! Large picture. With the black mat its on its an 8 by 10
(https://forestryforum.com/images/3_10_03/two_guys_on_springboards.jpg)
I found this photo in Zilwaukee Michigan. Would anybody have a guess on the date by looking at the equipment? I really don't have a clue. I was guessing late 50's early 60's?
(https://forestryforum.com/images/3_10_03/loading_with_crane.jpg)
Jeff,
I'm guessing late 30's to early 50's.
Noble
So, my dear Watson, why?
Jeff,
I said I was guessing!! You are as bad as my wife-------asks my opinion and then argues with me.
I guessed that because the machinery could have been made in the late 30's and would have been pretty much obsolete by the middle 50's.
Noble
I'll guess it was taken pre-OSHA. :)
What do you think them log bunks are rated to hold? :o Hope they are cross roped!
I know of 2 scrap steel yards that still use cranes just like that, 6 or 8 at each yard. They just put in diesel motors and scraped the gas. The crawler looks in the 30's or 40's but I would think it would have a big beam over the hood that the cable would hook to to lift the blade back then, before hydraulic stuff. Maybe it don't have a blade on it but I think I see the side arms of one. ??? From the dress and the hydraulic thing I will guess 50's. :-/
Andy
This is a large photo so I could get some closeups. There does not appear to be any cross chains or ropes. Jeez, thats dangerous as high as those logs are piled.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/3_10_03/no_cross_chains.jpg)
Closer look at the crawler and crane.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/3_10_03/crawler_and_crane.jpg)
Mid 40's, early 50's is a good guess. Post World War II with the man-power available and heavy movement of wood by railroad. Equipment also appears to be of that vintage. No armor or protective cabs on the crawlers, no truck loader in use, a lot of labor in use.
My dozor looks identical to that one, it's a 1956.
EZ
Jeff, I think it is actually an photo taken last year at some Farmfest. Some guys brought in some of their antique collection and were demonstrating for the audience. A man that collected old camera's took a picture and sold them as souveniers.
Lot of cool stuff going on in that pic! 8) I should start looking for stuff like that, I like it. ;D I see what I was thinking was part of the blade is the track roller gide and it has no blade. I still stick with my guess. Who knows around what time steam went out and gas came in?
Andy
Andy,
Our family bought their first gas power unit in 1928 and retired their last steam engine in 1955.
Noble
These are pictures of my father & grandfather loading logs for the building of our barn in 1948
(https://forestryforum.com/images/3_10_03/1948%20loading%20logs.1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/3_10_03/1948%20log%20yard.1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/3_10_03/1948%20sawmill.1.jpg)
I thought I would answer the next question before it was asked. Here is the finished barn.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/3_10_03/tn_1948%20barn.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/3_10_03/tn_1948%20barn.1.jpg.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/3_10_03/tn_1948%20barn.2.jpg.jpg)
Is the barn still standing? I bet it is!
We sold the farm back in 1972 and shortly after that the barn was downsized :-[to make a house. The house and smaller barn are still standing.
Great series of photos hydeoutman.
Across the valley from our farm is a barn with an arched roof like that. Although hardly a day goes by I don't look at that barn, it was last fall that I finally got a chance to look around in it and took some pictures. It is remarkably sound and straight. My folks differ in opinion on when it was built but apparently it was built before 1940.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/wsdavisbarn.JPG)
Loft area,
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/wsdavisbarn2.JPG)
Studs look like 3x8 oak. Sill plate still sound and dry,
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/wsdavisbarn3.JPG)
Note fiddleback figure on board. Maple??
We have barns like that around hear in Palmer Alaska and one of the best burnt down when we had all that wind a couple weeks back. :'( It was full of hay and that all went as well, lost so much hay that the hay price hear has now gone up from the shortage. All the ones like that hear went up before 1950 and they are all in good shape for the most part. I would like to build one for my saw shed someday, about 35' by 60' freespan with that roof so it looks the same would be great I think. ;)
Andy
The largest wood chemical plants in the world made use of the abundant hardwoods in the Cadillac Michigan area. This was a profitable way of extracting every last cent from lumbering operations.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Chem.jpg)
The wood distillation plant of the Cobbs-Mitchell company at Cadillac, Michigan showing the oven house, the first and second sets of cooling ovens and on the left the trucks of charcoal which have just been released from the second cooling ovens. This plant has a capacity of 96 cords per day. Hardwood sawmill and woods waste is used.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Distill.jpg)
This wood chemical plant was built in 1904, burned and rebuilt in 1918, and closed in 1926 when the timber supply was exhuasted. Picture shows alley between first and second set of cooling ovens where trucks of charcoal were slowly cooled.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/chovens.jpg)
Unidentified shay locomotive brings in a load of logs to Cadillac. Probably Cummer-Diggins track northwest of town.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/shay.jpg)
I would love to turn back the hands of time so I could see the way that things were done. Looking at all the old pics on this thread is pretty cool!
Steve
Steve,
Welcome to the Forum. Great photos. Also good to have an engineer on board.
Thanks. Here are a few more photos from the Andirondacks. This view is from the commissary of the Robert W. Higbie Company at New Bridge, New York
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/commisary.jpg)
The Higbie operations were noted for being particularly up-to-date in 1909. They owned about 25,000 acres and operated their own standard gauge railroad. The mills consisted of one high class single band sawmill, and a second one containing a short log mill, the product of which was used for making broom handles. The handle factory had a full complement of the Cadillac Machine Company's handle machinery.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Sawmill%20&%20Broom.jpg)
Higbie took special pride in their steam skidder. Mr Higbie stated " The steam skidder is the salvation of lumber operations in this region. We are putting our timber to track for fifty per cent less with the Russel Skidder than we could with horses. Beyond this it would be absolutely impracticable to operate our mills more than seven months in the year without equipment of this sort."
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Log%20Loader.jpg)
The trees (birch, beech, cherry, and maple) were felled on either side of the spur track and the entire tree lengths are snaked to the track, where they were cut to log lengths before being loaded on the railroad cars.The company employs Climax locomotives, the Russel Wheel & Foundary Company's skidder equipment, and Barnhart log loaders.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Russel%20Skidder.jpg)
A winter scene in the logging woods of Cummer Lumber Company northeast of Cadillac, Michigan. The locomotive is an early shay, probably Lima CN12. Photo was taken in January 1882.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/cummer%20ja1882.jpg)
Loading logs for the Cummer Lumber Company near Cadillac, Michigan. The Lumber Company owned this narrow gauge railroad which had a 3' gauge.Here a Porter 0-4-2T saddle tank locomotive provides the motive power. The water was carried in the fat tank around the boiler so a separate tender was not necessary.Circa 1890.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Cummer%20lumber.jpg)
Cummer-Diggins Company log train pausing at what is possibly Woodward Lake northwest of Cadillac, Michigan. This is a Lima Shay locomotive probably CN 2484. Circa 1911.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Woodward%20Lake.jpg)
The Lidgerwood Mfg. Company produced a portable spar skidder and loader which proved popular because it could be used interchangeably for three different systems of skidding.From a 1909 ad in the Hardwood Record is a drawing of it rigged as cableway skidder for rough ground, bad swamps, small timber, or very thick timber.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/cableway.jpg)
Another illustration of the Lidgerwood rigged as a slack rope machine-used for long hauls, large timber, moderately rough, or swampy ground.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/slack%20rope.jpg)
This illustration shows the Lidgerwood as Snaker- used for large scattering timber, smooth bottoms, and short hauls. Notice that the line is returned via a horse.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Snaker.jpg)
The final image of the Lidgerwood shows a picture of it in use in Wisconsin. Here the steel spar machine is rigged as a cableway skidder as it skids and loads hardwood logs circa 1909.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/WI%20lidergwood.jpg)
The next series of photos were taken along the Muskegon River in the 1880's. Wannigans were floating cook shacks that accompanied the river drive and provided meals for the crew.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/wan1.jpg)
A cook and his assistants on his traveling raft with log drive crew- Muskegon River, 1880's.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/wan%204.jpg)
Water carrier- His job was to find fresh water springs and fill the cask in his dugout canoe. He supplied the cook and men on drive with freshwater for cooking and drinking.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/water.jpg)
Jack Goddard in center with white stockings. The "eats" would be put on the front table underneath the canvas awning. The men would get their food and find a place along the shore to sit down and eat.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Jack.jpg)
Interior view of the same wanigan. I used these photos to build a reproduction of this wanigan for the U.S. Forest Service. It is currently moored at the Lumberman's Monument on the Au Sable River about 10 miles west of Oscoda, Michigan.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/wint.jpg)
Raft on left was the barracks, some men opted to sleep on shore. Cook Wanigan on right is flying the flag of the Muskegon Booming Company.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/lw.jpg)
Wanigans bringing up the rear of the drive. The drivers are busy riding herd on the logs.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/rear2.jpg)
Neat pictures and what an interesting project to be involved in.
It is kinda funny, however, that so many of our threads end up having as much or more to do with food than forestry :D
Keep those old pictures coming!
Noble
Main drive Muskegon River, August,1887. This shot was taken about 3 miles upstream of Big Rapids, Michigan at a spot called the Cateract. 540,000,000 board feet of timber was delivered to the mills by the Muskegon Booming Company that year.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/final.jpg)
The wanigan table is fixed with eats and the drivers are enjoying their dinner.
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Wannigans on the Muskegon River passing the Flint & Pere Marquette Railroad Bridge in 1886. The rafts were steered with the sweeps both fore and aft as necessary.
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Many thanks for sharing these fantastic old photos with us, Steve. We'd love to see more. :)
Steve,
Excellent river drive documentary. Do you have any history data or photos on the Cadillac to Traverse City Indian Trail route??
Thanks Ron,
I don't have much on the Old Indian Trails, although one branch ran about a 1/4 mile from where I live. The best source is the little pamphet published by the Wexford County Historical Society. They still were selling it for about $3.00 apiece last month when I stopped by their museum in Cadillac, Michigan. Another interesting source is the Archeological Atlas of Michigan, a big 30" x 30" atlas that shows many of the old Indian trails, mounds, and earthworks in Michigan. A reference copy is available at the Cadillac Library. The last source is the original land survey maps which are now accessable on the web courtesy of the Michigan DNR. These GLO plat maps dating from the 1850's showed the old Indian Trails in our part of Michigan.
I really loved your picture of the McGiffert steam skidder/loader combo owned by Cummer-Diggins. Supposedly they only used it in winter which seems odd as it would sure have been handy in the Briar Hills where the big wheels would be dangerous on the steep slopes.Maybe they were concerned about damage to remaining trees.
Steve
So as not to neglect our southern friends the next series of photos will follow the journey of the Cummer Lumber company to Florida. The firm of J. Cummer and Son began operations in 1871, followed by the Cummer Lumber Company which was formed in Cadillac, Michigan in 1881 by W.W. Cummer. In 1890 the Cummers were running out of pine timber on their holdings in Michigan and bought 117,671 acres in northern central Florida. This photo is of a big yellow pine in Alachua County.
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The Cummer Lumber Company's Florida timber holdings in 1900 consisted chiefly of long leaf pine, with some cypress, and were largely located in Alachua and surrounding counties. They had built a sawmill and planing mill in 1897 in Jacksonville but this burned down after only one year of operations and had to be rebuilt.From Jacksonville the average distance to the timber was about 100 miles. The photo below shows woodsmen sawing down Cummer timber
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The timber was of excellent quality although considered of only medium size. It ran from 50 to 90 in height to the first limb. The operation was planned to produce 35,000,000 feet annual production and was expected to last 15 years. To reach this timber property and transport their logs to their plant at Jacksonville the Cummer interests constructed a first class standard gauge railroad a hundred miles long. The railroad was called the Jacksonville & Southwestern.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/skid.jpg)Crosscutting the trees
The Cummer logging camp structures were portable, being in the form of big box cars, 12 x 40 foot in dimension. They were transported on railroad logging cars, a side track being built for their reception. The train was backed in, the houses blocked up, and the train pulled out from underneath. Skilled labor in the woods was white, but common labor was all black. The company used three Lambert skidders and loaders, two of which were kept in steady operation. The skidders had a capacity of 9,000 feet of logs an hour.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/lambert%20loader.jpg)Lambert Loader
The woods work was either done on contract or by the month with a stipulated amount of work to perform. Those felling and crosscutting trees to length were paid so much per tree. Those operating loaders were paid montly while being required to load a specific amount per day. The entire workforce was furnished food and clothing from the commissary under a ticket system. At the end of each month the men would be paid the amount remaining due to them.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/office.jpg) Cummer Lumber Co Office
One train of logs per day, consisting of 33 cars of 4,000 feet a car, was hauled over the line of the Jacksonville & Southwestern Railroad from the woods to the Jacksonville plant. There the logs were unloaded into the log pond. The logs were cut to the length desired at the foot of the slide with a marine drag saw. About 60 percent of the product of the Cummer mill was square timber cut largely to special bills, hence the necessity of having round timber delivered at the mill full length.
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Jacksonville Plant Map
These pictures and vids are FANTASTIC!!!!!...makes me appreciate a log loader and a good chainsaw.. ;D
The Cummer Lumber Company's new mill at Jacksonville in the spring of 1900 was as modern as skill and money could provide. It was built on pile foundations on the St. Johns River with the lower timbers of cypress and the upper ones of yellow pine. It was equipped with two Allis double cutting telescopic bands and had an average daily output somewhat above 133,000 feet in ten hours. One interesting feature was a set of narrow return rails in the center of the mill. Their function was to allow any mis-sawed timber or stick rejected by the inspectors to be returned to the saws for remanufacture.
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Cummer Sawmill
The product of the mill was disposed of in three lines. The timbers by means of live rolls running out of the mill and directly to the "camel back" dock on the river.Here the special bills would be sent to their berth, branded on the end with the bill number of the order. As the order was completed the bill was in one place ready to be loaded on the vessel for shipment.
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Camel Back Dock
The second product line was the miscellaneous small dimension, which went over a regulation sorting rig, and was sorted onto horses, which drop the loads as required onto tram cars for movement to the yard.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/sawi.jpg) Mill Interior
The boards and strips were forwarded through to an edge sorter, and assorted to some half dozen grades, going to the Soule edge stackers. The slabs are returned under the mill floor by a chain carrier and deposited on a dock some hundreds of feet out in the river. Here the slabs were shipped on scows eight miles up the river to Jacksonville where they were sold for fuel.
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Soule Edge Stacker
The dry kiln apparatus, through which all the lumber passes, was of the Emerson type. As the lumber, edge piled by the Soule process, left the dry kilns, the loaded dry kiln cars were transferred to the dry shed in the center of the plant. The dry sheds were capable of holding 2,000,000 feet of lumber entirely on cars. Here the lumber is resorted into about 20 grades and repiled onto cars which held about 6,000 feet each. The cars were delivered by gravity to the planing mill.
At the planing mill the stock was first double surfaced, one sixteenth inch full of the finished product desired. Standing beside was a gang edger which stripped the lumber to the desired width. The strips were passed onto a chain transfer which elevated the lumber about 6 feet above the mill level. Here each strip was graded, and as it reached a position behind the flooring and molding machine desired, it was pulled off and deposited on a series of dead rolls, in piles 3 feet wide and 5 feet in height. As the finished product left the machine it drops onto a set of transfer chains which ran the full length of the mill.
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Cummer Planing Mill
The various flooring and molding machines employed in the Cummer planing mill were all driven by endless belts run at a very high speed. The dressed stock, after being graded, was tied in bundles, and loaded onto lumber cars. The lumber cars would either be transhipped onto railroad cars alongside the mill or moved out to one of two warehouses located out in the St. Johns River, where it would be loaded unto vessels.
The power plant for the entire operation was concentrated at one location and fueled by the shavings from the planing mill and saw dust from the sawmill.
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Slabwood Dock
Returning to northern Michigan, the next series visits the M Sours logging operation.
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M Sours Logging Camp
The M Sours ox team during operations in 1913 in Wexford County.
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Ox team
Sours ox team skidding a nice maple log near Little River in 1913.
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Skidding Hardwoods
Back at M Sours logging camp at Little River, Wexford County, Michigan in 1913.
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The Sours logging crew
steve, thanks for all that work, mucho 8) ;)
Steve,
Do you have any information on the location and Little River? Is there still a "Little River" in Wexford county or has it been renamed to something else?
Regretably the only info I have on the Sours operation is the captions on the photos. A clue is provided by the next photo which shows the M Sours crew hauling logs on Mitchell Street in Cadillac from their logging camp at Little River, Wexford County. They are stopped in front of the old Peoples Savings Bank and appear to have come from south of Cadillac. It is unlikely they would haul more than a few miles by sled. The caption identifies the first teamster as Roy Sours, followed by Lea Flesher, Eugene Rossell, and Ben Luttrel. The date is March 1913. All Sours logging photos shown here are courtesy of the State Archives of Michigan from prints loaned by Mrs Ira McClaine thru Clyde Anderson.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/sourscad.jpg) Bobsleds headed to mill
From the Jeffy Collection.
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Steve, GREAT pics. That is the stuff we are searching for in the St.John's. 133,000 bdft/day made for stripping the forest bare. We see old Pilings sticking out of the river all the time. Never figured they would build the whole mill over the water. Thanks for posting them.
Thanks. The next series of photos covers the operations of the Williams Brothers Company in 1907. George F. Williams established the company in 1883 in the town of Manton, Michigan and later took into partnership Walter S. Williams forming the firm of Williams Brothers. In 1897, when the firm had grown, they took in another brother Albert E. Williams, and a nephew William A. Hall and incorporated as the William Brothers Company. The company was primarily enaged in the manufacture of lumber and last blocks. Last blocks were later refinished by others for shoe and boot lasts.
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Sleigh loads of Michigan Maple for Williams Brothers Company in Cadillac Michigan, scaling 2,529 and 2,626 feet respectively
At Cadillac the company had a saw mill, a last and ten pin block factory (ten pins were later refinished for use in bowling), numerous sheds and kilns for the seasoning of their products, and an extensive lumber yard. Manton was practically a duplicate of the Cadillac plant except that it did not manufacture lumber. The interesting feature of the operation, outside the manufacture of hardwoods and hemlock lumber, is the last block and ten pin department. This was regarded to be the largest operation of its kind in the United States at the time.The plant at Manton covered five acres and had a storage capacity of 1,500,000 last blocks. The Cadillac plant covered seven acres and could accomodate about 2,000,000 last blocks.
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Sawmill of Williams Brothers Company in Cadillac Michigan
The combined capacity of the two last block plants was about 15,000 per day. The plants were run at full capacity six or eight months of the year-during the fall, winter, and early spring. During the late spring and summer months they were comparatively idle, running only sufficiently to keep up steam in the dry kilns. It required a whole years time to dry the last blocks and the company kept a years stock seasoning in its sheds and kilns.
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Last Block and Ten Pin Factory of Williams Brothers at Cadillac
(continued from page 12)
The company in 1907 figured it had enough maple timber to run at capacity for at least ten years. The maple timber was located in Wexford and Missaukee counties. It was transported from the woods by rail and logging sleighs to the companies two plants. Williams Brothers had improved their process of last production after years of experience and experimentation.
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Skidway of hardwood logs for Williams Brothers
Perfect last blocks were made from select logs, cross grained and defective ones were sawn into lumber. After being turned in various shapes they are stored in air-drying sheds of special construction and afterwards placed in steam heated dry kilns, where they remain for three or four months longer. The entire seasoning process was designed to strenghten the wood and leave the blocks entirely free from checks.
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Last Block and Ten Pin product of Williams Brothers
In addition to the production of maple last blocks the company also produced a considerable quantity of basswood blocks. These were used as fillers in shoe samples in show windows and for the traveling cases of shoe salesmen. The basswood was of very good qaulity, being clear, light, and tough. The Williams Company also turned out large quantities of ten pins and duck and candle pin blocks for bowling alleys using the same processes.
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Manton plant of the Williams Brothers Company in 1907
The capacity of the Cadillac plant was from 25,000 to 30,000 feet of hardwood, or 40,000 feet of hemlock lumber a day. Lumber was carefully graded and piled in good order in the lumber yard. The home office of Williams Brothers Company in 1907 was in Manton (later moved to Cadillac). From 40 to 50 men were employed at the Manton plant and about 75 at the Cadillac plant. The several woods camps operated by the company employed at different seasons of the year from 100 to 200 men.
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Train load of Maple Logs at Cadillac, Michigan on flat cars of the Ann Arbor Railroad for Williams Brothers Company
Williams Brothers Company timber holdings around Boon, Michigan are shown in purple. Logging camps are shown as black dots in their approximate locations. Adjacent holdings of Cummer and Diggins are shown in yellow, Murphy and Diggins in brown, and Peters in blue. Logs were transported to Cadillac by Williams Brothers on the Ann Arbor Railroad.
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Map of Boon Township, Wexford County, Michigan
Now within a large area of the Manistee National Forest.
This next series of photos is from the Kentucky Lumber Company in 1909. The Kentucky Lumber Company was one of the biggest hardwood manufacturers at this time altough the main office was in Cincinnati. It had major operating plants at Burnside, Kentucky and Williamsburg, Kentucky. The company started operations in 1887.
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Section of log boom for Burnside plant Kentucky Lumber Co.
The company produced about a million board feet a month at each of its two plants. The Williamsburg plant was at the junction of the Cumberland River and the main line of the Louisville & Nashville Railroad between Cincinnati and Knoxville. The plant consisted of a single band sawmill with a completely equipped planing mill. It drew its supply of logs from the upper Cumberland River.
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Williamsburg plant, Kentucky Lumber Company
The Burnside plant consisted of a band and band resaw sawmill and a planing mill. It was located at the junction of the main stem and the Big South Fork of the Cumberland River, where the Cincinnati Southern Railroad crosses the Cumberland. The supply of logs for this plant was secured from both branches of the river.
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Burnside plant, Kentucky Lumber Company
The plants for many years had been sawing the magnificent poplar that the region was famous for, as well as large quantities of oak, chestnut, ash, and hemlock. The lumber was distributed throughout central Kentucky, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, New York, and Pennsylvania.
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Alley in Williamsburg Yard, Kentucky Lumber Company
The company's planing mill facilities enabled it to supply dressed stock to remanufacturers of hardwood and also to cater to the retail trade in dressed lumber of many varieties.
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Part of planing mill, Burnside Plant, Kentucky Lumber Co.
The president of the Kentucky Lumber Company in 1909 was Charles Minchall and W.E. Delaney was general manager. E.V. Nash was superintendent of the Burnside plant and D. E. Delaney was superintendent of the Williamsburg operation.
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General manager W.E. Delaney at Burnside plant.
The next series of photos follows the rise and development of Delos L. Filer and Sons of Manistee, Michigan. Delos was born in Herkimer County, New York, September 27, 1817, and was of Scotch parentage. His early life was devoted to farming, school teaching, and merchandising. He married and moved to Racine, Wisconsin where he became a traveling salesman. Later he entered the employ of the lumber office of Roswell Canfied and in 1853 moved to Manistee, Michigan.
Realizing the value of pine timber, he invested his earnings in government land, and these lands soon rapidly increased in value. In 1858, together with L.G. Smith, he bought an interest in the Bachelor mill. Later he purchased the full interest in the mill, but it was destroyed by fire in 1865.
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Filer logging crew in the woods
Delos L. Filer erected a new mill on a new site on Lake Manistee. A large part of the timber lands which Filer had bought were on the Little Manistee River, in both Filer and Stronach Townships. As opportunity arose he increased his holdings. The rapid rise in lumber prices during the Civil War gave him good profits which he reinvested in further land purchases.
In 1866 Delos L. Filer and his two sons E. Golden Filer and Delos W. Filer organized the firm of D.L. Filer & Sons. They purchased 2,000 acres at the mouth of the Little Manistee River and two years later platted the town of Filer City. A mill was built here and in 1867 produced 8,500,000 feet of lumber.
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Filer & Son's camp
Steve, are you coming to the 100th annivarsary picnic? You gotta come... :)
After the organization of the business at Filer City, Mr Filer purchased the interest of James Ludington at Ludington, Michigan. Together with James Ludington and John Loomis, he organized the Pere Marquette Lumber Company. He managed this company until his death in 1879.
E. Golden Filer, the eldest son, had assumed charge of the D.L. Filer & Sons business in 1869, when D.L. moved to Ludington. Golden managed the office and his brother Delos W. supervised the operation of the mill and yards.
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Rolling logs for Filer & Sons
In the adoption of labor saving machinery Filer & Sons was one of the most progressive firms in the area. They were the first to introduce the double edger, having both a fixed and a movable saw, which greatly increased the capacity of the mill and soon came into widespread use. This concern was also the first to make use of the paper friction pulley, and was also a pioneer among the mills in this area in the introduction of the steam feed, and the Rogers log turner (more commonly called by the name of "steam nigger" in the era before civil rights). In 1885 they took out their circular and put in a band saw, considered a doubtful experiment at that time.
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A logging crew
Filer City, situated on the western shore of Lake Manistee, owes its existence to the industries of Filer & Sons. The Filer plant, had by 1899 expanded to cover 20 acres, and comprised a saw and shingle mill, a stave and lath mill, a cooper shop, office, yards, and docks. The tracks of the Manistee and Grand Rapids Railroad penetrated the yards, while the water of Lake Manistee offered an outlet to the Great Lakes for shipping by vessel.
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A load of logs for Filer & Sons
The saw mill at the Filer plant in 1899 was capable of turning out 100,000 feet of lumber each day. It was equipped with a band and a rotary saw, and two edgers. A ten block and a hand shingle mill machine performed the work of the shingle mill, where 250,000 pieces of shingles were turned out daily. The stave and lath mills had a capacity of 15,000 pieces of stave, 40,000 of lath, and 5,000 pieces of heading per day. The cooper shop was equipped with planer and other barrel machinery and was capable of turning out 1,000 barrels each day.
Two engines were used to furnish the power used in the plant, one a Filer & Stowell 22x30, and the other an Atlas 18x24. A battery of seven tubular boilers, 5x16, and of 80 horsepower each generated the steam for the plant. All of the mill refuse was used for fuel, with the usual series of conveyors carrying the fuel from the mill to fire room.
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View of Filer City yards and mills of Filer & Sons
Photo I found in Evart Michigan today.
Actually half of it, its a stereo view.
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I've always liked oxen. Oxen were the only animals owned by many of the pioneer lumbermen, and even after horses were available, loggers operating in remote sections found the ox more desirable because it could live on coarser feed, stand rougher treatment, and required an inexpensive harness which could be made in camp. Oxen were favored on swampy ground because they did not mire as badly as the smaller footed horse or mule. They were also used in brushy conditions, as they required little swamping. They also were handy on steep slopes as they were not as excitable as horses.
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Oxen skidding a southern yellow pine log containing 1200 board feet in Arkansas
Another advantage of oxen is that eight or ten animals could be handled by one teamster while only four or five horses could be worked by one man. Oxen stand heavy pulling day after day better than other draft animals and also require a minimum of attention because only one feed per day is necessary if the animals are turned out to graze at night. They are slow but can be loaded more heavily than horses. An ox will travel about 1 mile per hour when pulling a load.
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Ox teams at work in the Pisgah Forest, North Carolina
Oxen could be used without danger in cold conditions, but exposed to the sun on very warm days could be killed by over-exertion due to careless driving. Oxen were harnessed with a yoke. The driver controls them by voice and a heavy rawhide whip. The training begins when the animals reach the age of one and one half to two years of age, but they did not achieve their best development until their fith or sixth year.They weighed about 1000 to 1200 pounds. They were serviceable, under average conditions, until they reached the age of ten to twelve years.
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Oxen in the employ of J. Cummer & Son near Cadillac, Michigan
The next series of photographs illustrate another important northern Michigan forest product in the early 1900's. The Cadillac Handle Company operated in the woods of the northwestern lower peninsula of Michigan with a sawmill and handle factory in Cadillac, Michigan. The company had extensive timber holdings in Emmet county and operated its own logging railroad.
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Shay No 3 on the siding at Pellston Michigan
The logs were shipped from Pellston in Emmet County over the rails of the Grand Rapids and Indiana Railway. Logs from lands in the vicinity of Cadillac were shipped in via the Ann Arbor Railway. The growth of an extensive rail network in northern Michigan allowed Cadillac to remain an important lumber town long after the nearby forests were harvested. The mill and handle factory produced about 20,000 feet of lumber and 25,000 broom handles daily.
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The sawmill, handle factory, and office of Cadillac Handle Co.
The process of making broom handles in 1907 was pretty straightforward. The logs are flitched on the sawmill and by specially designed machinery cut to broom handle dimension stock and turned by automatic lathes at high speed. By the aid of carriers, the green handles are forwarded to rotating steam heated rattlers which both season the pieces and polish them at one operation. The handles are kept in these perforated cylinders for twenty-four hours, when they are dumped out on hand carts and sorted and bundled for shipment.
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Dimension stock in yard of Cadillac Handle Company 1907
President of the Cadillac Handle Company was W.W. Mitchell, vice president and treasurer was F.J. Cobbs, and A.W. Newark was secretary and general manager. This company was separate from the better known and much larger firm of Cobbs & Mitchell, Inc. which had the same top officers. The main plant building was 36x90 feet elevated above a basement eight feet high. The boiler room was 30x60 feet and constructed of brick. There was also a filing room and sheds for drying stock.
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Engine room of the Cadillac Handle Company plant
The timber owned by the Cadillac Handle Company consisted of northern hardwoods and hemlock. Only high-class, straight grained maple and beech timber was used in the manufacture of handles. The residue and all other species of timber were manufactured into lumber.
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Corner in lumberyard of Cadillac Handle Company
The company had one of the best appointed lumber yards in the area and the stock was assorted and graded accurately. In addition to lumber the company also produced special dimension stock which was sold to furniture companies.
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Alley in lumber yard of Cadillac Handle Company
The company shut down its operations on September 14, 1920 after exhausting its supply of timber. It had operated at its Cadillac site at Wright Street just west of Third Street for twenty five years.
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Shay No 3 of Cadillac Handle Company near Pellston, Michigan
Some piles of wood. Just think how these forest lands have been "renewed". The "Renewable Resource".
THis is one of my favorite photos from my collection of an old sawmill scene. Since there is so much going on in it, engines and saw filer and horse teams and tools and such, I linked it to a bigger image for a good look. Click on the picture if you want a big version.
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If the last photo was one of my favorites, this one IS my favorite. This photo says alot. At least it speaks to me.
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The early 1900's saw the introduction and quick adoption by lumbermen of steam loaders such as the McGiffert Loader. Steam skidders were also introduced but in Michigan many loggers still believed horses were more economical than steam skidding. Also debated were the merits of independent skidders versus combined skidders and loaders.
The millman was frequently confronted with the problem of how to get out the requisite number of logs to keep his mill in constant operation.
The photo below shows a Clyde skidder with flexible steel booms for skidding and decking logs at the track. This was a very popular machine in the hardwood and pine timber sections of the South. The guy lines from the peaks of the booms were tightened by means of friction drums driven by the engines.
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Clyde Four-Line Self-Propelling Skidder
One of the difficulties in using the new steam machine methods was maintaining an equal basis of operation between the skidder and the loader. Some operators contended that this was accomplished with more certainty when skidders and loaders were used separately and independently. Others contended that combining the skidder and loader in one machine would leave part of the workforce idle at times. This was notably true when the skidding was difficult and the loading crew could not be kept busy.
The photo below is of another four line Clyde skidder in operation at Ontonagon, Michigan for the Greenwood Lumber Company. In this operation the skidding lines were taken out by horses. The same machine could also be rigged for rehaul and eliminate the need for horses if desired.
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Clyde Skidder at Ontonagon, Michigan in 1910
Under ordinary conditions a log loader would handle about the same amount of timber each day as long as the logs were piled along the sides of the track. On the other hand, the skidder was completely dependent on the character of the timber and its proximity to the track. With timber located at the extreme limit of haul in rough country the skidders output could be reduced to about a fourth of its optimal output.
When the skidder was working to its maximum capacity it was usually capable of taking care of more logs than the loading machine could handle. As a consequence it was necessary to stop skidding and let the crew loaf or put them to some work that broke up the organization.
The photo below shows the same Greenwood Lumber operation at Ontonagon, Michigan after the skidder has gone through. The logs were loaded on cars in a separate operation using a McGiffert loader which was also built by the Clyde Iron Works.
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Logs Left by Skidder for Loading on Railroad Cars
A further disadvantage of the combined loader and skidder was that the entire production was brought to a halt by an accident at either end of the operation. In operating an independent skidder and loader, the utility of the skidding machine made it practical to move frequently enough to skid the logs to the track at the nearest point. Thus, by using the skidder as an independent factor, working constantly to its best advantage, it was possible to keep the loader and both crews busy constantly.
The last halftone below shows a combination two line skidder and loader with steel swinging boom, and was built on a Decker type of frame, which provides for spotting the cars through the machine over the trucks. It was equipped with three engines; two of them are for the skidding lines (each engine having two drums, one for an outhaul line and the other for the spotting line), which are taken back to the logs by power instead of horses. The third engine was for loading, equiped with two drums, one for a loading line and the other for a spotting line for spotting the cars through the machine.
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Clyde Combination Two Line Skidder and Loader
A slightly more modern picture from a weyerhaeuser negative.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/weyerhaeuser_train.jpg)
The Russel Wheel and Foundry Company of Detroit, Michigan was another company that produced combined skidders and loaders early in the 1900s. They marketed a full line of logging machinery, including donkey engines for skidding and loading as well as its high-class, self propelling combined skidders and loaders.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/smrusselskidder1912.jpg)
Russel Combined Skidder & Loader 1912
The Russel Wheel and Foundry Co. was most famous for its production of logging cars, car trucks, and railway supplies for lumbermen. The Russel log car became a standard in the industry and by 1906 the company had to double the size of its plant to handle the backlog of orders.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/smrussellogcar.jpg)
Russel Standard Logging Car
The Russel Wheel and Foundry Co. of Detroit, Michigan also introduced an improved holder for car stakes to facilitate the loading of logs, which would simply hold the load in place, which by no chance could be misplaced, and which could only be tripped from the opposite side from which the load was discharged.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/smrusselstake.jpg)
Russel Trip Stake Holder
The Russel trip and stake holder was welcomed as it precluded injury in unloading logs, improved economy in both loading and unloading, and held the load absolutely secure during transport.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/smrusselstakecar.jpg)
Logging Car Fitted with Russel Trip Stake Holder
Another appliance manufactured by Russel was skidding tongs. They made a 3 prong version for small logs and 4 prongs for large logs.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/smrusselhook.jpg)
Russel Skidding Tongs
The Russel Wheel and Foundry Co continued to make improvements in its combined skidder-loader. In 1910 it built a machine for the Ingram-Day company of Lyman, Mississippi that had a number of novel features. The machine, except for the loading boom was constructed entirely of steel. It was a stradling type machine that stradled the track, rested on blocking, and was raised and lowered by hydraulic jacks.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/smrusselskidder1908.jpg)
Russel Combined Skidder and Loader 1908
The skidding was done by means of a Russel heavy-duty logging engine, cylinders 9 inches by 11 inches, 150 pounds working pressure. There were three skidding drums 30 inches in dianmeter, 30 inch face, two of which were in constant use, the third being only used in case of a broken line to avoid delay while splicing. This engine was also equipped with two drums for tightening the guy lines, and drum for a car spotting line.
On the front end of the machine is a skeleton steel tower from which is suspended a vertically hinged jib or triangle, from which the skidding sheaves are hung at the outer end. On each side of the jib just over the skidding sheaves is a guy line sheave. The two guy line sheaves are made fast one on each side of the machine, to any convenient stump or tree. The guy lines lead through the sheaves on the end of the hinged jib, through sheaves on the tower to two friction driven power operated drums on the skidding engine.
Compare the following photo of the 1910 version built for Ingram-Day with the previous photo of the 1908 model.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/smrusselingram.jpg)
Russel Combined Skidder and Loader at Ingram-Day Lumber Co
The loading boom was of the swinging type, having a hinged connection at its lower end to a turntable on which the loading engine was mounted and its outer end supported from the top of the tower. The loading engine had two 8x10 cylinders for 150 pounds working pressure, and three drums, one for operating the loading line and the other two for swinging the boom, by means of two wire ropes leading through sheaves supported on a steel frame projecting from the front of the tower.
The swinging of the boom was controlled by one lever, the boom being locked in any position by placing the operating lever in the middle position. When the machine was being moved the loading boom was locked in a central position by a foot brake.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/smrusselskidder1910.jpg)
Ingram-Day Lumber Co. Operations near Lyman, Mississippi in 1910
The next series of pictures will look at Bay City's hardwood industry in 1916. Bay City is located in Michigan on the Saginaw River at the junction of the River and Saginaw Bay on Lake Huron. Bay City's lumber operations got their start with the white pine industry which boomed in this section of the country from the 1860's thru the 1890's. By the start of the 20th century the surviving mills of Bay City had transitioned to hardwood production utilizing railroads to bring in logs from northeastern Michigan. In 1916 Bay City had seven substantial sawmills fed by the hardwood forests.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/new-old.jpg)
Bay City in 1916-the Old and the New
One of the oldest institutions in Bay City was the W.D. Young & Company. W.D. Young started in business by buying logs and having them sawn for him but eventually built his own sawmill in combination with a flooring plant. He also purchased an interest in a second mill, known as the island mill, as well as planing mill facilities.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Young&co.jpg)
W.D. Young & Co. Sawmill, Flooring, and Planing Mill Plant
W.D. Young owned timber in Otsego, Cheyboygan, and Antrim Counties of northern Michigan. Operations were started about 1891 and by 1916 enough timber was still owned to last another ten to fifteen years of steady production. Maple was air dryed in sheds to prevent staining prior to its manufacture into flooring.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Youngmaple.jpg)
W.D. Young & Co. End Piled Maple
Another large Bay City operation was the Richardson Lumber Company. F.L. Richardson organized the company in 1901 and it was distinctly a sawmill operation. This business was actually centered in Alpena, Michigan, where the company president F.L. Richardson resided. R.S. Richardson was the secretary treasurer and also resided in Alpena. The Bay City operation was in charge of H.N. MacDonald and included a finely equiped and efficient mill for hemlock and assorted hardwoods.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/RichardsonMill.jpg)
Richardson Lumber Company Mill at Bay City
Richardson's Bay City mill was started in 1907 and was constructed for permanence. The Bay City mill was in operation the year round. The Alpena plant ran about nine months of the year while a third mill located at Rogers City had been closed down in 1916 due to the depression caused at the outset of World War I.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Richardsonbirchlogs.jpg)
Birch Logs of Richardson Lumber Company
The Kneeland-Bigelow Company in Bay City was supplied by timber mostly from Montmorency, Otsego, Presque Isle, and Crawford Counties. The Kneeland Bigelow interests acquired large holdings in these areas at a time when it was considered a poor investment because of the rugged character of the country. The company owned about 27,500 acres of timber outright and several thousand acres of timber rights in 1916. The timber ran about 30% maple with the remainder being assorted hardwoods and hemlock. These intersts also included the Kneeland-Lunden & Bigelow Company, both firms being controlled from the main office. Mr Bigelow was the active head of each institution.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/KBlogpond.jpg)
Kneeland-Bigelow Company Log Pond
The Bigelow firm was organized in 1901 and first operated a mill located on Water Street on the Saginaw River. The mill, shown in picture below, had 30 acres of yards and usually held from 7,000,000 to 8,000,000 feet of stock. In 1905 a second mill,known as the Sherman Street Mill,was erected on the Saginaw River at the foot of Sherman Street. The mill was a double band typical of efficient northern operations, but carried a rather larger stock than the Water Street Mill. Both of the operations ran continuously. In addition to the normal dimensional lumber, the Water Street Mill cut considerable quantities of timbers and was equipped to handle lengths up to 44 feet.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/KBMill.jpg)
Kneeland-Bigelow Company Water Street Mill
The business of Ross & Wentworth was started in 1899 by John C. Ross and Norris E. Wentworth. They owned timber land in northeastern Michigan and cut mostly maple along with smaller amounts of beech, birch, and hemlock. Their mill was on the site previously occupied by McLean & Company which had milled pine.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/R&WMill.jpg)
Ross & Wentworth Mill
The Ross and Wentworth plant was a single band mill with a band resaw. Ross & Wentworth did not manufacture any specialties but concentrated on producing hardwood lumber and hemlock. Their yards spread out along the river and were also serviced by railroad tracks giving them good transportation options.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/R&Wlogpond.jpg)
Riding a Hemlock Log- Ross & Wentworth Pond
The Bigelow-Cooper Company was organized in March 1915 by the Kneeland-Bigelow interests of Bay City and the Briggs & Cooper Company interests of Saginaw, Michigan. The Company purchased from the Standard Oil Company 23 acres of land on the west side of the river. It had a river frontage of about 2,000 feet with both the Michigan Central and Grand Trunk railroad tracks on the property. The Bigelow-Cooper Company built a large hardwood flooring plant there and obtained its supply of material from the Kneeland Bigelow Company. It manufactured maple, beech, and birch flooring.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/R&Wpond.jpg)
Ross & Wentworth Log Pond
Nice bunch of photos, Steve. Funny how nearly ALL sawmills and timber, even here in Fl, all got very busy at the turn of the century.
What type of mill would cut a tree of this magnatude? Can you imagine felling it wrong? It would take out the whole cabin with a single "branch".
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Sequoia%20Yosemite%20national%20Park.jpg)
I think even if you fell it perfect it would bounce that little cabin off its foundation or flip it upside down just from the impact! I do have an idea though that thats a big tree, but not as big as the perspective insinuates.
Gitty up, gitty up
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rootsweb.com%2F%7Enbnorthu%2FPhotos%2Fhorselumber.jpg&hash=8a32773832b65fe805c9fe6e74a9c7d7a4ba9b43)
gee!! gee!! haw!! get up there. ;D
Early Fraser/Nexfor sawmill in Plaster Rock, NB
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.plasterrock.com%2Foldmilll.jpg&hash=d970c6b9c7b584ebc8023566f586a2dba405319a)
Logging on the Miramichi River, NB
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.klondikekonsulting.com%2Fimages%2FLogCart.jpg&hash=54dde41b784c983dd04baac2c32a07ea4e79195a)
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.klondikekonsulting.com%2Fimages%2FLogJam.jpg&hash=07b244b256a269b85007d15bc084a4be549abd62)
Mill at Marysville in Fredericton, NB
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.klondikekonsulting.com%2Fimages%2FMarysville.jpg&hash=e5c8983a04c210bc35d42f491111528f29a4d0e5)
Log raft, unknown location
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.klondikekonsulting.com%2Fimages%2FLoft.jpg&hash=adf0e4009b18bc80e766da4ae2c808eca9aec6b1)
@ Fla_Deadheader:
The increased sawmill production went hand in hand with the dawning of the pulp and paper industry. And in my province they saw a need to harvest timberlands reaching over maturity and by the mid 80's there was no more guessing what was over the next hill because we had already built roads there ;D
In the 1950's, spruce budworm and wild fires were being treated by aerial pesticides and water bombers because there was a greater demand for wood products from the industry that bloomed in the 20's through 40's (during the war papermills were quickly converted to factories).
We haven't sprayed pesticides (BT) for spruce budworm since 1993 in my province. And fires have been significantly reduced. The great Miramichi fire in the 19th century burned 20 % (6000 square miles) of the productive forest land in New Brunswick.
http://www.nlc-bnc.ca/9/2/p2-0502-03-e.html
Loading logs by conveyor at Eagle Lake , Maine
(https://forestryforum.com/board/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.klondikekonsulting.com%2Fimages%2FEagleLk.jpg&hash=9d0c3db45cfd35cdafd6ed7ef5c2a859effc7b88)
I think they invented a steam powered logging train in Maine and I also seen where they had used such a train on the Queen Charlotte Ilands in BC during WW1 to log Sitka Spruce for veneer on airplain wings.
They also used trains to hull pulpwood in New Brunswick up untill the late 1980's when they abondoned much of the Saint John Valley railway system. I can't find any pics on the internet for train logging in NB yet. If anyone had access to the 'Tobiquer' journals on ebay, there would be lots of things on logging and guide outfitters. My grandfather worked in the woods cutting pulpwood ($2.00/cord) and it had to be pealed too. And loaded trains with pulpwood to be sent to Frasers pulp mill at Edmundston/Madawaska. I suspect alot of that wood at Eagle Lake went there also because there wasn't any pulpmill in Northern Maine at that time to my knowledge. Huber mill in Easton Maine is for poplar species. GP is a hardwood pulp mill near Millnocket Maine.
SwampDonkey,
You be almost a neighbor of mine!!
I live seven miles from Eagle Lake, I'll have to see ifn' some of the folks in these parts might have some pis.
When I was a lad in the 50's I remember the log drives on the Saint John River--there's got to be somebody from around here with pics of that.
termite
Thanks Termite
Post'm here if you find some :)
Well, my gf and I own 30acres along the Saint John river just above the Mactaquac dam. The fellow we bought it from used to work freeing logs off the shore during the log drives. He also knows many of the places along the river where lads drowned or worse while riding the logs. He had some pictures somewhere.
The woman who lived on our land before us operated an inn where paddlewheel passengers would stop on the way up the river and the log drivers would stay on the way down the river.
A set of pillars stretch accross the river in Maugerville (prounouced majorville, located downriver from Fredericton) and booms used to catch the logs for a mill there.
There was another mill up river at Pokiok, just above Nackawic.
Through a family friend I have met the Mr. Irving who runs the forest products division, he used to drive logs down the Saint John in the 40's.
I'll see what I can dig up for pics.
Ken
QuoteSwampDonkey,
When I was a lad in the 50's I remember the log drives on the Saint John River--there's got to be somebody from around here with pics of that.
termite
Strong woods heritage in New Brunswick, my gf and his brother came from NB to Cape Breton in the 20s to lumber. Had several large mills here, on different parts of the island. Have a good day, FMK
@ Slowzuki:
We also have some of Irving's pillars constructed for that purpose near Muniac. But the pillars where never used since the log drive was ended in the 60's when Beechwood and Mactaquac hydro dams were constructed. It ended sooner on the Tobique when the hydro dam was constructed there in 1954. My uncle and cousins have some rare video footage of the making of the dam at Tobique Narrows and the blowing up of the Narrows bridge. Also in the video is the old Tobique steam engine on which my mother ,grandmother, and great grandmother used to Board at Malliseet station to go to Perth or up to the Camps (grandfather's) above the Narrows. Grand father owned riparian rights on the Saint John River (Hanson's Pool) and on the Tobique (Narrows pool). The old dead issued by King George said he owned what was on the water, under the water and in the water. The dams took away that means of living several generations took part in and put a damper on the great Tobique Salmon runs. Guide outfitting began on the Tobique River before it existed on the Miramichi. My grand father and his brother were on a many log drives on the Tobique where they started their Guide Outfitting company when they were 14 and 16 years of age. Their father and grandfather also did the same. Thier grandfather married into the Armstrong Family who were famous guide outfitters on the Tobique. They hunted caribou near Nictau Lake, present day Mount Carleton Provincial park. If you ever go there you see a plaque at the foot of Shagamook mountain behind the logde which gives a little history of the Armstrongs and portaging between Nictau and the Bathurst Lakes. There is also a stream named after Armstrongs and I have a shot of it on my website under my watershed management service. :)
I also have a book full of many paintings and charcoal drawings of logging and scenery by Rev. H. Nicholson. This book was authored and published by Mrs. Jean Elizabeth Saunders Irving , the wife of J. K Irving in Saint John. They used to live above Grand Falls in St Leonard where she and Mr Irving worked in the woods and attended many log drives on the Saint John River. Rev Nicholson used to preach on occassion at our local church and Mrs Irvings grandfather was also a Reverand near Petitcodiac NB. Many of Rev. Nicholson's paintings are on the walls of Irving's Saint John office.
:)
@ slozuki:
Fraser's had one of the biggest sawmills in NB at Fredericton. Alot of wood was floated down there. But, how did they keep their wood separate from Irvings wood? ;D
Never figured out the wood separation! Suppose they must have branded it somehow?
I climbed Sagamook a few years ago (hmm, well I guess about 12 years ago) but I missed the plaque!
I heard Pokiok used to be a narrow gorge before the headpond from the Mactaquac dam and logs would jam up.
The men would use explosives to free the jams!
@ slozuki
I guess the plaque has only been up for 10 years now. You didn't drive around the lake the other way and sea the Trail marked into Armstrong Brook? There is a wooden walk way there also. I been there and have seen brook trout jump the falls. At the base of the falls there's about 15 feet or water. You'de be surprised what obsticles a brook trout can get up over.
Yes the Pokiok stream has a deep escarpment and is quite narrow with very bouldery stream bed. A log drivers night-mare. I think the glaciers took all the rocks from the fields in Carleton County and dropped them off at Pokiok. ;D
By the way, there is also a Pokiok R. that dumps into the Tobique, just above the Narrows dam. There is remains of a log *DanG there and there was once a mill there. Possibly owned by Sadlers, I forget now, but my uncle would know. They also had a sawmill across from my grandfathers house where they rented the land from the Malliseet nation. The only mill they have now is at Wapske for hardwood, Ralph Sadler (John his son runs it now). His uncle Horse Sadler used to board people on the drive and provide logding for men poling up the Tobique (guides and sports). The old guy was noted for his flamboyant parties ;D
Yes, everyone used to pole the rivers in those days before outboard motors ;)
Some of you Canadian members may recall the National Film Board of Canada's video of Wade Hensworth's 'Log Driver's Waltz' sung by McGarrigle sisters. The video is a compilation of old films of log drivers, changing to animation to exaggerate the action in the words of the song.
If anyone is interested it can be purchased here:
http://www.bclc.bc.ca/download/national_film_board_of_canada.htm
To here the tune (music only) go here:
http://members.shaw.ca/tunebook/logdrive.htm
Mr Hemsworth passed away in 2002 at the age of 86
regards
@ slowzuki et al
Here's your gris mill at Prince William, on the grounds of the Kings Landing historical settlement.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/gris-mill.jpg)
Sorry for the quality of this old polaroid.
QuoteSwampDonkey,
You be almost a neighbor of mine!!
I live seven miles from Eagle Lake, I'll have to see ifn' some of the folks in these parts might have some pis.
When I was a lad in the 50's I remember the log drives on the Saint John River--there's got to be somebody from around here with pics of that.
termite
Hey, mighty 'mite! I just sent Jeff a book about history of logging in Maine. Maybe he'll put some pictures on I wanted him to see some of the logjams- so many logs you couldn't even see the water. Those boys worked brutally hard. lw
@ L Wakefield
That'll be nice if Jeff posts a few from your book, looking foreward to it. Hard to find pics of the drive on the Saint John River. Guess no one had time for picture taken, just hard work and sweat for store pay. :) If I could get my hands on the Tobiquer Journals there would be some pics in there. To reflect a little on the times, Grandfather got $2.00/cord for pulp peeled and had to pay board in the woods. Grandmother got $5.00/day with free room and board at Plourde's hotel in Perth. I'de prefer the hotel and grandma's cookin :D :D :D
Swampdonkey, interesting pictures. Are the pics of Eagle lake or Big Eagle. At one time there was a short rail line to bring wood from Big Eagle lake, away from the Allagash water shed to Chamberlain lake so it could be driven down the Penobscot into Bangor. The Allagash took the wood North to the Saint John and to Canadian mills.
Slofr8:
Eagle Lake up north in Allagash country :)
Around here we used to load closed in box cars, every stick handled umpteen dozen times. In the 60's I think dad said all that hard work was worth $20/cord including cutting and loading it from your woodlot, then handling it all over again. As usual, the only money made was by the mill while the producer gave his wood away plus the labour and trucking to get it there. That's why we have marketing boards here now to try and get a fair price. :)
wow what a fantastic thread , really makes me feel like a creampuff lookin at these great pictures and readin about each one and here I was a worryin if I should mount a hydraulic log turner this week, I think I will pass now and get back in shape , thanks for this awesome thread ! (https://forestryforum.com/smile/chopping_wood_md_wht.gif)
Logging camp somewhere in Wisconsin.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/ox%20resized.jpg)
Sorry, I cant post pictures from a book as they are copyrighted. The pictures I have posted in the past either belong to me, are in public domain, or owners have given permission.
Jeff:
Good point being made there ;)
Saint John River, Grand Falls N.B. 1887
So you want to be a river driver eh ? :(
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Log%20jam%20opti.jpg)
now where did I put that barrel of die-no-mite
history of logging in Maine, up on the Allagash River.
an excerpt from the link below;
QuoteThe railroad crossed over the northwest arm of Chamberlain Lake where it reaches toward Allagash Lake. The most significant structure of this operation was a fifteen hundred foot long railroad trestle sturdy enough to carry both the train and its regular supply of heavy log cargo across this piece of water
http://www.state.me.us/doc/parks/programs/history/allagash/history.shtml
I had stayed with Henry Taylor and his wife Alice with my mom and dad back in the 50's, they were good friends of the family.
termite:
Nice story on that website and the pictures are awesome :)
My grandparents used to go up into the Allagash area by bush plain where grandfather guided and grandmother cooked. Grandfather didn't like to fly too much :D I don't know what camps they stayed at, have to ask my uncle. Alot of Mainers used to come to grandfather's camps too on the Tobique, including Bud Levitt, the late sports announcer from Bangor. Alot of folks from New England and PA also would come fishing and hunting birds, deer and bear. I asked my grandmother once what she thought of the good old days. She said the good old days are now, all it was back then was hard work, long days, and nothing to show for it. :)
cheers
termite:
As you know that is a mighty gorge at the Falls where that wood is piled up. One would have to see it for real to grasp just how much wood that represents in the photo :)
swamp donk,
tis is a sweet corner of the planet aint it, "the county" and northern N.B.
been around some and it's sure nice ta get back "up home" when you been gone fer a bit.
More pics to follow of the 1st great white north
pappy
termite:
I told father about that website and your photo of Grand Falls and his ears perked up. He wanted me to print it off for him to read over. He used to work a horse some and then a skidder on his own 500 acre woodlot :) His great uncle was a big woods contractor way back when, out behind Hartland and had camps and several crews. There wasn't big $$ but things were booming at those times. Everything is cyclic I guess ;)
Recently I dug up some geneology about our family on his side and we traced it back to the old gent that came from Scotland and married his wife from Hamstead. I found out where the stone is down there from a website. Now he wants to make a pilgrimage down there this summer to find the marker. I woman from Arkansas did the research and her roots were from this same gent in Hamstead, but she wasn't with the same last name as us, its a few generations back. Father wanted to know her but I couldn't get her #. We can't figure out who she knew up here to find out some of the recent generations. Pretty cool stuff. 8)
Today I received an interesting photo from the daughter of Roy Dodge. Roy lived in Harrison and wrote the books Ghost towns of the Upper Peninsula and Ghost towns of the lower peninsula.
She said this was one of the original logging camp photos used in one of those books, or another book he wrote called ticket to hell. I dont have the ghost town books and cant find any info on the Ticket to hell book. She explained to me, that ticket to hell came from the days when the loggers would gather and straws would be drawn to see who went to what camp. Some camps were notorious for bad, bad conditions, and a straw drawn for one of these camps was a ticket to hell.
Anyway, this photo will be interesting. I want to find the book it is reference for. I think with some detective work I may find out about the camp. One man in the photo is holding a logmark. If I can figure out the mark, I may be able to trace it back to a company, and perhaps a location. Maybe that info is already in the book. Dunno.
Here's the photo, and a couple blow ups of small areas. Its really an interesting photo. What the heck are two little kids doing in it I wonder??
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/loggingcamp_web.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/loggingcamp_crop.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/logmark.jpg)
Jeff:
I'de suggest the camp boss brought the wife along to cook and the kids had to come because there was no place to stay. Interesting photo though. It could just as easily be a camp my great great uncle ran in the bush, or my grandfather worked at. Some of those old camps were pretty louse infected. Everyone shared the same blankets to keep warm, they just rotated positions each night to be next to the stove and keep'r stoked.
I think it'd be warmer in with the horses ;)
Jeff, I did a search online for Roy's book, "Ticket to Hell" which you probably already did yourself. All I could find was Roy's other two books, Ghost towns of the Upper Peninsula and Ghost towns of the lower peninsula.
Very interesting subject and picture.
My wife and I did some metal detecting in an old logging camp here in central WI and found this brass tag, token? We can't figure out what it is. It says, "City Onalaska, 9, 1892". There were large landowners who logged in this area from Onalaska and LaCrosse, WI. But we were wondering what this tag was used for. Or if it was a token of some kind?
It's is about 1 inch in diameter.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/Log%20tok2.jpg)
Jeff:
My tought on that label of sherwood's is that it could have been attached with wire to something issued by the town for some tool used by a city employee. Or maybe the tool or item kind of walked off as they say. ;)
I think log marks were etched or carved in bark or log ends. They didn't want metal to go through the saws. I concluded this after looking at log marks from WI and MI states in the 19 th century.
SwampDonkey:
Yes, that is a good idea that maybe this label, tag, was attached to a city owned tool or maybe other item such as a lantern or stove or whatever might be used in the camp. But why would it have the year 1892 on it?
Here are a couple of log ends with stamp hammer marks my wife made my drag home that I have sitting right behind me right now while at the PC. Note brands or stamp marks hilighted with chalk for better view. Wife found these back on or own property, in the creek where they had been recently exposed after being buried for over a hundred years.
Also at the top of the picture is a stamp hammer we got at a local auction from the Sawyer and Austin Logging Co out of LaCrosse, WI.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/resize%20logends.jpg)
Here's a good example of a Log Mark chopped into a log many years ago,we found this last summer when the water was very low.
Bark mark on this log (N hack H hack hack) is that of Halloway according to 1861 Black River Falls, WI news article.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/bark%20mark.jpg%202.jpg)
I can look out from our property at the cove that mill is located in. We are directly accross the river. The saw is an up down type of saw, like a giant hand saw. I haven't been in the mill for probably 15 years or more.
I found out last night there used to be a mill at the mouth of the Pinder stream, in Bear Island, NB. Supposedly some of it still exists. A family built a house way out at the headwater and sent the trees from land clearing down the stream to the mill. One wall of their barn stands today, it was last occupied in the 1920's. Our neighbour took a new cookstove out to them when he was a boy, his horses were up to there chests in water and mud getting this this out there. It is still out there today I'm told.
Ken
Quote@ slowzuki et al
Here's your gris mill at Prince William, on the grounds of the Kings Landing historical settlement.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/04_01_03/gris-mill.jpg)
Sorry for the quality of this old polaroid.
slozuki:
That old polaroid is over 20 years old ;)
Jeff B.
...maybe this will help you...
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0932212646/qid=1076960230/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/002-3009683-9658461?v=glance&s=books
Stump-Pee, I'll probably come acrossed a copy if I startlooking in one of our stores. The books were written right here in town so there are probably some copies to be had. I just never looked for them.
Jeff B,
I've also been looking for a book on the history of Marion, MI. I know it exists because I've seen one. However, I've searched high and low for a copy without success. Someone told me to check the local bookstores up north. From what I recall, that book had alot of hold logging photos as well. Good luck in your search...
Whats the name of the book about Marion? Tammy grew up in marion. Marion is just up the road from us. Were you from there at one time?
Slozuki:
My folks have a book written by Dr. Earle's wife whom came to Perth in 1906 I beleive. Talks about the history of the area of Perth Andover and to Beachwood and up above the Narrows Dam as far up as the Stewart Plains at Wapse River, Grand Falls and New Denmark. Some of the history is through tales and legends of the area. There are a few old photos in there showing the paddle steamers that came to Perth including the 'Florenceville' paddle steamer. Shows a large log jam at Perth, against the railway bridge piers. Shows photos of Perth, Muniac, Grandfalls, Tobique Narrows, and Limestone Siding. In the photos there are old and new bridges under construction, including Beechwood dam and Tobique Narrows dam. The photo of the Narrows dam still shows the islands below the dam , at the mouth of the Tobique, before Beechwood was built and flooded them out. In low water you can still see the old elm stumps of the islands when you walk up the New Brunswick Trail. The book was published in 1959. My uncle bought a copy and Mrs Earle signed it herself. Dr. Earle and his wife were well known by my grandparents. From what I've heard from folks in the area that knew them, they were well thought of. I beleive they came from Texas originally.
Aside from this, my Grand Father's uncle owned the land where the Narrows dam was constructed. He had 2 barns and wagon sheds there. He often let his cattle grazed down on those river islands and flats along the eastern shore of the river. Grand father had cattle that fed there also. The natives on the reserve used to wade over in low water and drive the cattle over to a corral where they charged $0.15 a head to get them back. Grandfather's uncle had 12 children at that old place, and when they expropriated the land out from under him and his family they drove him off for a small sum of money and he lived on another property he owned, in a camp basically. He died that following winter because of the misery it caused him. And some of his older sons built his mother a new home there on the land his camp was on. Three of their siblings live there now with each their own homes and families all grown up. Three of his sons went to war in Europe and 2 returned.
My uncle has photos of the homstead and the blasting of rock for the Narrows Dam. He has photos of the old bridge that was above the dam also. He has photos of Native guides from the Tobique Reserve in his grandfather's and father's days also. My grandfather and my uncle have always had good relations with the natives, whom they worked in the woods for, went to their church, cut and hauled their stovewood, gave them shelter and fished and guided in their salmon pools before expropriation and so on. There are native children and grand children that remember this and often speak of it with my uncle.
whew I thought I lost this thread :-/
just wanted to throw a link in here to some pics and stories of yesteryear
http://www.lumbermensmuseum.org/logger.cfm
they even got a bean hole bean recipe
Great link there termite. I've never been to Maine, but if I do I'll have to make it by the museum.
Here are a few pictures of the Gayoso Lumber Company of Memphis, Tennesse. The company first opened a plant in Memphis in March, 1906, and at that time was capitalized for $50,000. It purchased ample yard space in South Memphis along the main line of the Yazoo& Mississippi Valley Railroad, allowing it expansion room for the future.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/Untitled-4.jpg)
The Big Memphis Mill
Previous to moving to Memphis, the business had been run by the Ransom family at Nashville, Tennessee. At the time of its move to Memphis the officers of the company were John B. Ransom, president, Arthur B. Ransom, vice president, W. A. Ransom, secretary and general manager, and Charles R. Ransom, treasurer.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/Untitled-5.jpg)
C.R. Ransom, treasurer
The business had always specialized in hardwoods, and its move to Memphis was largely due to that city becoming the center of the hardwood industry of a large section of the South.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/Untitled-3.jpg)
Logs Arriving at Memphis Mill
The Gayoso Lumber Company became one of the most widely known and substantial lumber concerns of the South.
It owned its own timber and all facilities for logging and manufacturing.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/Gayoso-1.jpg)
Log Loader at Work
The Gayoso Lumber Company had its main supply of logs from a tract of 50,000,000 feet of splendid timber in the famous St. Francis basin in Arkansas.The cut consisted of beautiful gum, oak, ash, hickory, cottonwood, tupelo, cypress, and willow.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/Gayoso-2.jpg)
Log Yard in the Woods
The company kept on sticks a stock of about 10,000,000 feet, and when logs permitted ran its Memphis mill day and night.It could load out twenty railroad cars a day at Memphis and another ten cars a day at Blaine.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/Gayoso-6.jpg)
Part of the Memphis Log Pile of 1,000,000 feet
Welcome back Steve, I've been waiting to see more of your pictures! ;)
The Gayoso Lumber Company had more than 400 employees in 1918 to keep the big business humming.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/Gayoso-10.jpg)
Log Train Headed to the Memphis Mill
The Ransom boys were sticklers on efficiency not only in manufacture but in the handling of their product.They insisted upon proper yarding and ensured that was no unsightly or confusing accumulation of dangerous refuse.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/Gayoso-9.jpg)
Sorting Shed Memphis Mill 1918
The Ransoms also made sure that the piles of lumber were carefully laid and built so that the drying process resulted in the finest possible finished product. Those methods proved to be a paying investment resulting in higher prices for their product.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/Gayoso-7.jpg)
Part of the Memphis Yard of the Gayoso Lumber Co.
The Gayoso Lumber Company in 1918 operated two band mills with a combined capacity of 110,000 feet a day. The larger mill in Memphis had an output of 60,000 feet a day of sawed lumber. The other mill was at Blaine, Mississippi, and cut about 50,000 feet a day.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/Gayoso-8.jpg)
Main Office at Memphis
Thanks Furby, I have been collecting a new supply of pictures from very obscure sources over the winter and will post a few at a time over the coming months.
thanks steve, i really appreciate them old pics. wish i had a quality printer to print them off and hang em around my cabin.
good stuff. 8) 8)
Hey I knew there was a logging museum in PA but not in Maine, I lived in maine until I was 4 or 5 then I moved to PA then at about 8 I moved to Florida. I may be going to Pa this summer for a vacation so I'll probably stop by the PA logging museum just for fun, and to see how hard they had it in the old days.
Thanks, Redpowerd, I might add that all those photos were published in the March 10, 1918 issue of the Hardwood Record of which there are now only a couple copies left in existence. Since it was published before 1922, the copyright is expired, and all photos are now public domain, free for anyone to use.
The next series of photographs shows the operations of the Pioneer Lumber Company located about one-half mile from the town of Elrod, Alabama. This was about 15 miles west of Tuscalosa, on the Montgomery branch of the Mobile & Ohio Railroad, which afforded the company excellent rail service and connections for reaching their northern consuming territory.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneerplant.jpg)
The plant of the Pioneer Lumber Company at Elrod, Alabama
The Pioneer Lumber Company plant was located on a large, level basin surrounded by gently rising and wooded hills. The plant was laid out for efficiency but it also had a pleasing symmetry and harmony of design that was rather uncommon for industrial plants. All of the photos date from the early 1920's.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneersuper.jpg)
John Sandahl Mill Superintendent
The plant was built in 1921 and represented everything that a modern sawmill of that time could boast of in operating efficiency. The mill was equipped with one eight foot band saw, gang, double edger, multiple trimmer, and lath machinery.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneersawext.jpg)
Sawmill Plant of Pioneer Lumber Company
The Pioneer plant was primarily a board mill, manufacturing a complete line of common boards, shiplap, finish, casing, base molding and lath. The sawmill had a 10-hour capacity of 75,000 board feet.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneersawint.jpg)
Interior View of Pioneer Lumber Company Sawmill
The dry kilns had a capacity of 45,000 feet per day. The lumber went into the kiln piled on edge. The planing mill was equipped with two high speed machines, molder, and band resaw. It had a capacity of 125,000 feet per day.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneerdrykiln.jpg)
View of Dry Kilns, Cooling Shed and Rough Dry Lumber Shed
The plant had large rough and dressed lumber sheds that made it possible to handle mixed orders very promptly. In the rough lumber shed, the stock was end piled to facilitate the shipment of orders for mixed lengths.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneerendpiled.jpg)
End Piled Soft Pine Lumber in the Rough Sheds
The lumber storage yard was a splendid example of the best methods of stacking. It was kept neat and orderly with the piles laid out in mathematical precision. Good housekeeping was a point of pride and promoted greater efficiency.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneertypicalpile.jpg)
Typical of the Way Pine Lumber Was Piled at Pioneer Plant
The plant had an efficient fire department. Additional emergency protection was afforded by a goodly number of water barrels, each kept filled to the top with a water bucket hanging inside. All of the barrels were numbered and a close check was kept on their condition and readiness.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneerpinepile.jpg)
Back of Soft Pine Piles in Pioneer Lumber Yard
Note Fine Stacking, Good Roofs, and Level Foundations
While the plant was mostly devoted to the production of high grade pine lumber, a limited amount of hardwood lumber was produced. The hardwood output was sold to flooring factories and other remanufacturing plants.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneerlumberpile.jpg)
Oak and Gum Lumber in Hardwood Yard
The loading dock had a capacity for sixteen railroad cars at a time. Special attention was given to loading, to ensure the stock reaching destination with condition and appearance that would satisfy even the most critical buyer. The company's product was mainly shipped into Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and the New England states.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneerplaning.jpg)
The 16-Car Loading Track past Planing Mill and Dressed Lumber Shed of Pioneer Lumber Company at Elrod, Alabama
The company supplied homes for their workmen with electric lights. Bath houses, with showers, were provided for both white and black workmen, the hot water being furnished from the mill plant. The healthful living conditions attracted the best class of skilled and experienced workers.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneerhomes.jpg)
Homes of Employees
The company also provided a large and well stocked commissary. It was managed by E.T. Turner.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneeroffice.jpg)
Office and Commissary of Pioneer Lumber Company
The company also was proud of its hotel and boasted of its fine baseball team. Recreational activities was another way the company tried to keep their workers happy and content.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneerhotel.jpg)
A View of the Hotel
The spendidly equipped plant was only possible due to a supply of virgin soft shortleaf pine. The logging superintendent was J.P. Daniels.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneerlogsuper.jpg)
J.P. Daniels Logging Superintendent
The Pioneer Lumber Company had a fifteen year supply of shortleaf pine lying between the Gulf, Mobile & Northern and the Mobile and Ohio Railroads.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneertimber.jpg)
Shortleaf Pine Timber of Pioneer Lumber Company
The company's woods operating department was also organized for maximum efficiency in order to keep a steady supply of logs headed for the mill. Well equipped logging camps were maintained.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneerloggingcamp.jpg)
Logging Camp of the Pioneer Lumber Company
The logs were transported to the plant by railroad. These logs would soon be transformed into the Pioneer Company's trademark "Light and White" shortleaf pine. The tradename well described the character and quality of the product which in lightness resembled white pine.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdpioneerloggingtrain.jpg)
Trainload of Pioneer Lumber Company Logs on Way to Mill
Those are great pictures Steve, and your explanation of whats going makes them more enjoyable as well. It seems that its hard to find such photos of mills back then in my area. Everyone was too busy working to snap pictures. ;) Well I'm sure there are lots of private collections and in the Provincial Archives.
cheers
Thanks Swamp Donkey. I'm sure there are a lot of photographs of your area out there somewhere. The mill owners were generally proud people who enjoyed having their mills and operations photographed. Researching my own area of Cadillac, Michigan I've found a good number at the local historical society and from private collections in the area. The majority though were from university archives and the State of Michigan Archives. Unfortunately a lot of the photographs are unlabeled and others are misidentified making an interesting puzzle.
But if any of you there who read this have photographs of Cummer & Diggins or Cobbs & Mitchell or other operations in Wexford County, Michigan I would sure like to get a copy for a book I am working on.
Here's a link from a backpacking website I found while looking up info on fishing the Laurel Fork in VA. Check out the size of that whiteoak and the poplar tree. Good lawd thems' big...
http://www.patc.net/history/archive/virg_fst.html
Yup them oaks can get huge. There was once a red oak near the university campus which was almost 5 feet on the butt end, but it died 15 years ago. Probably older than Canada. :D :D :D
Some pictures of logging in the '20's. These came from my cousin -- who's grandfather (Dave Connors) had a logging operation up in the north Maine woods.
Where they called home in the winter time--
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/termite%20Dave%20Connors%20logging%20camp%20opti.jpg)
Lombard Log hauler moving lumber to the water course-
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/termite%20Lombard%20log%20hauler%20opti.jpg)
Wangan boat on the Saint John River-- where a river driver could get something good to eat-- most likely bean hole beans and biscuits where on the menu.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/termite%20Log%20drive%20wangan%20boat%20opti.jpg)
pappy
Nice photos Termite. My father's uncle was a woodsman with crews in the woods as well. Most likely any photos they had burnt in house fires. I've not seen any around grandfather's place in years past. And that house of his was built after thay had a fire in the 40's. My house was built in the 20's after a fire and it was great grand father's house where my grandmother grew up on dad's side. She was grown up and teaching by then.
cheers
Latest aquisition to my photo collection.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/pitsaw.jpg)
That's a great picture of sawing logs the hard way!!
Now THAT is truely a manual mill.
Of all the saws I got, thats one I am lacking. I'd love to find one of dem pitsaws like that one.
They gotta still be around. I was watching a documentary the other day and two guys in a jungle village were making boards with one.
If ya find one, dats one saw ya git ta play wit all by yurself. Looks like WAY too much work for dis ole boy.
Yeah, i think there's one of'm around here someplace. And my mother's uncle would have one I'm sure and he woulda kept it like new, knowing him. He was very particular about his tools and each tool was put back in the exact spot it was taken from or world war 3 would let loose. :D :D
Here's a historical sketch about the Gatineau River in Quebec, and the log drive. (http://collections.ic.gc.ca/gatineau/logging.html)
Also, Canadian Geographic Magazine has an article titled 'The Last Drive' by Shawn McCarthy in the December 1991 issue, pages 18-31. I see one picture in the article that shows a view of a landing full of pulpwood and a view of the river as far as you can see full of sticks of wood. As I looked through some of the older pictures from the 30's and 40 and early 50's , any of those gents could have just as well been my grandfather working on the Tobique River drive.
I tried doing a search on their site for the article, but it does not display it on-screen, only info I've posted. I guess one has to order that issue, some magazines will let you view old articles. hmmm :-/
This is one of my favorite photos even though its in very rough shape. I have provided a link to a larger version because its an interesting photo on many aspects.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/loggingtruck_sm.jpg)
Larger Image Link (https://forestryforum.com/images/loggingtruck.jpg)
Yeah, its a kewl photo. Ya see the old timer with his load of logs coming to town. You see a family in front of a garage or fire hall, dunno which. And a couple folks up the street outside a shop. Them logs on the truck are quite big, wish we had'm all like that now. And have a look at that truck. :) Looks like the photo had some fire damage.
Apparently its the Ford/ Fordson Dealer. It looks like he is sitting at a fuel pump. You can just see the glass pump topper above the truck next to the lamp post.
I got another photo with this one if any body is interested in Fordson Threshers. It shows 2 brand new ones loaded for transport. It is also damaged.
Hey you can just make that pump out. I wonder if that's old K.C. Irving pump'n the gas in Saint John. Well not likely, since its in Michegan. ;)
Here's a biography:
http://collections.ic.gc.ca/heirloom_series/volume4/174-177.htm
Another bio here:
http://www.edu.pe.ca/kinkora/grassroots/influentialcanadians/stupage/nlamb.htm
Here's the refinery:
http://www.irvingoilco.com/aboutus.htm
Some of his gifts:
http://www.acadiau.ca/blueprint/irving/index.htm
Sorry to digress :)
Ok Jeff, it wasn't a pit saw that I have here. Its a cross cut saw. But, I know there have to be some at the historical settlement in Kings Landing at Prince William, NB. Well, they got the oxen anyway. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/crosscut.jpg)
;D
Thats not in Michigan, the sign in the ford dealer window says Randolph county sales Co.
There are several states with a Randolph county including Missouri. I dunno why, but that looks like a Missouri scene to me...
I would love to have a truck just like that for the Forestry Forum truck! Anybody recognize the make and year? I figure thats something Noble might have driven. ;D
:D :D :D You got better eye sight than me Jeff. ;D
Truck's way before my time. But I found it interesting to find out in that biography of Irving above, that in 1925 FORD asked him to start a dealership, I think the first in NB. That truck in your picture brings it all together for me. ;D
I have a full resolution image here that shows a few more details. :)
Cheeky guy :D ;D
Ok, really stupid ?, but that is a truck AND trailer right?
First few times through this thread I just saw a three axel truck, now I'm seeing it as a trailer. ::)
Here are a few photos of the Sumter Lumber Company showing their operations in 1924. The Sumter Lumber Company was organized and incorporated under the laws of the State of Alabama in 1900 and a mill was built in in Sumter County, Alabama on the Alabama and Southern Railway. After some years of operation, the mill was destroyed by fire, and as the company's timber holdings in that area had been largely cut, a new mill was built in Electric Mills, Mississsippi.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumterforest.jpg)
Shortleaf Pine of the Sumter Lumber Company in Mississippi
Over the years, the Sumter Lumber Company acquired extensive holdings of timber so that by 1924 they had a supply sufficient for another 25 years of operation. Most of the Company's holdings were in Kemper, Noxubee, and Winston counties in eastern Mississippi, as well as Sumter County in Alabama, lying within the shortleaf pine belt and stretching between the Gulf, Mobile & Northern and the Mobile and Ohio Railroads.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumtertrademark.jpg)
Trademark of the Sumter Lumber Company
The timber was of exceptional quality with long bodied trees yielding three to four 16-foot logs each, and producing a large percentage of the upper grades of lumber, which, after passing through the various processes of manufacture in the companies plant, emerged as finished lumber. The lumber was soft and easily worked, being both light in color and weight. It was the southern wood that came closest to the highly prized northern white pine, hence the companies trademark "Nearwhite".
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumterboard.jpg)
A section of 1x12 Finished "Nearwhite" shortleaf pine board
The Sumter plant , which had a capacity of 300,000 feet a day, produced everything in yard stock, making a specialty of boards, shiplap, flooring, casing, base, and molding, the larger part of these items being cut 16-foot lengths. Ninety percent of the logs came into the mill that length.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumterrosemarylogs.jpg)
Average run of "Rosemary" logs
The Sumter Lumber Company was founded by experienced lumberman who got their start in Wisconsin during the white pine era. One of the founders was John Alexander, president of the company. Another of the founders was Thomas Brittingham, vice president until his death in 1924. The third founder was Joseph Hixon and the last was George Hixon.
D.H. Foresman became general manager of the company in 1921 and reorganized the policies and working forces to increase quality and quantity of production.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumterdhforesman.jpg)
D.H. Foresman General Manager
D.H. Foresman came from a long line of practical and successful lumbermen and was reared in Williamsport Pennsylvania which at that time was one of the largest lumber producing centers of the United States. He started in a minor position with the Bowman Lumber Company of Williamsport, Pa., remaining in their employ for fourteen years. He then worked for the Central Pennsylvania Lumber Company where he was in charge of eight sawmills. He left that company to take charge of the six mills of the Davison Lumber Company in Nova Scotia. He was also connected with Emerson Engineers, New York, where he studied problems of efficiency for various lines of manufacture.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumterforest2.jpg)
Virgin Forest of Shortleaf Pine owned by Sumter Lumber Co.
The plant of the Sumter Lumber Company in 1924 was complete and up to date. It was electrically powered throughout, with power being supplied by a large capacity turbine engine. The sawmill, planing mill, and cooling sheds were made of steel and reinforced concrete construction which made them pratically fireproof. The mill, with a capacity of 300,000 feet every 24 hours, was equiped with two 8-foot band saws and a gang saw, with a full complement of all the other machinery necessary for quantity production of well manufactured and well finished lumber.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumtersawmill.jpg)
Sawmill of the Sumter Lumber Company
The plant also included a well equipped lath mill. A large machine shop, equipped with steam hammer, lathes, and other machine tools, took care of all railroad and plant repair work. Immediately adjacent to the machine shop was the car shop which took care of repairs to the rolling stock.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumterloggingtrain.jpg)
Trainload of Sumter Lumber Company Shortleaf Pine Logs
The company concentrated on sawing for grade rather than making a big daily production of timber. The head sawyers and other skilled employees stayed with the company for many years and had become expert at handling the logs to get the highest percentage of "uppers" out of them.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumterlumber1.jpg)
Shortleaf Pine lumber Ready to Enter Dry kiln
The entire process from saw to storage shed was under the eye of a Supervisor of Manufacture. Whenever a piece of stock was found to be below standard, the cause was immediately located and removed, ensuring uniform correct manufacture of all lumber shipped. The large rough dry sheds held an average of 4,000,000 feet of "Nearwhite" soft shortleaf pine lumber.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumterdrysheds.jpg)
Large Rough Dry Sheds of Sumter Lumber Company
The Sumter Lumber Company had a battery of eight double track kilns that were equipped with steam, humidity, and temperature gauges. Great care was taken to ensure that all the conditions that result in the proper drying of lumber were maintained at all times. Because of this careful supervision, the very best results were obtained with a minimum of checking and warping. The lumber went into the kilns flat stacked, as shown by the photo below.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumterlumber2.jpg)
"Nearwhite" Shortleaf Pine on its Way Thru Dry Kilns
All kiln dried lumber was regraded and any occasional piece that may have got thru without being properly edged or trimmed was taken out and the defects remedied.
The planing mill was equipped with eight modern machines and had ample capacity to take care of the cut.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumterplaningmill.jpg)
Electrically Operated Planing Mill of Sumter Lumber Company
The Sumter Lumber Company made a specialty of high grade molding, finish, and base. The lumber storage yard had a capacity of 20,000,000 feet, not including the shed for kiln dried stock, which held 4,000,000 feet. The large shipping dock permitted loading of 30 railroad cars at a time.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumtershippingtrack.jpg)
Shipping Track Past the Dressed Shed, Planing Mill, and Rough Dry Sheds
The town of Electric Mills, Mississippi, was incorporated in March, 1913, taking its name from the electrically driven mill of the Sumter Lumber Company, one of the first plants in the South to be so powered. The plant had been completed in 1912 on the site of the old town of Bodga, in Kemper County. It was located 37 miles north of Meridian on the main line of the Mobile & Ohio Railroad.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumteroffice.jpg)
Office of the Sumter Lumber Company
The town of Electric Mills was nicely laid out, the principal buildings being grouped around a central park and the streets lined with fine shade trees of pine and hardwood. The homes were well built, attractive, and conveniently arranged.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumterstreets.jpg)
Shaded Streets and Homes at Electric Mills, Mississippi
The town of Electric Mills was owned and controlled by the Sumter Lumber Company and occupied solely by its employees and their families. All dwellings and other buildings were lighted with electricity. There was a grade and high school, and a union church provided services by ministers of different denominations.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumterschool.jpg)
Electric Mills Schoolhouse
The Sumter Lumber Company plant and the town of Electric Mills were protected by a well organized and equipped fire department. There were five organized companies, each under a captain and a lieutenant, with all reporting to the fire department chief.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumtermanagerhouse.jpg)
Residence of General Manager
The company was interested in the health and welfare of its employees and provided a modern small hospital with a capacity of 35 beds. It was staffed with three doctors and had both white and black nurses. All employees paid a monthly fee which entitled them and their families to medical and surgical treatment.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumterhospital.jpg)
George Hixson Memorial Hospital
The Sumpter Lumber Company also built the Alexander Theater, named for its president, which showed moving picture films three nights a week. The theater was also equipped with stage, scenery, etc. and the auditorium sat 500 persons.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumtertheater.jpg)
Alexander Theater at Electric Mills, Mississippi
Logging operations were under the direction of D.C. Gleason, who had a longer period of service with the company than any other employee. Logging camps were provided near the scene of logging operations to house the woods workers.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumtercamphouse.jpg)
Portable Logging Camp Houses
The logging camps of the Sumter Lumber Company were moved on a regular basis as the timber in each section was harvested and were designed to be portable. The modular buidings were simply loaded on a flat car and moved to the new site located along a railroad.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/smcdsumtercampoffice.jpg)
Boarding Cars and Logging Camp Office
Found this old real photo post card. You can still find these things for a buck or two if you are patient enogh to go through 5 or 10,000 post cards to find one.
(https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/loggingpic_opt.jpg)
https://forestryforum.com/images/03_21_04/Dog_Sled_small_2.jpg [/img]
In this thread I've seen pictures of machinery, horses, oxen, etc. etc moving timber out of the bush but never a picture like this one. Taken near Englehart Ontario circa 1930, borrowed from the Timiskaming Forest Alliance Inc. website, www.timfor.com
Here is one of my photos with a southern flavor. I would like to have one of these saws in my collection. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/florida_bucking.jpg)
There was a piece of one beside my barn. It had been turned into an "in-the-woods" sawmill. I took the blade off of it and put my name on it. The blade is the one in the picture behind my cat in the thread "my dog Straight"
Those things will kill you, cut your feet out from under you. There's been a lot of southern woods workers maimed or killed by just being near one.
They were used for pulpwooding. They would saw the tree down with the blade horizontal, then turn the blade vertical and buck it up to length.
I seen one of those crazy looking things up at the Amish in Clark Missouri.
I ask him why they just didn't use a regular chain saw & his answer was
They weren't allowed to in that settlement, But some Settlement in a
different state The Amish there could use a chain saw ???
I'de have to agree that saw could do a bad number on a feller if he wasn't careful. Just hope your not the guys buddy that got in the way without him seeing you nearby. ::) :o
About time for another of my photos. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/sash_saw.jpg)
jeff that i a saw there got any history on it 8)
It sure does! But I dont know it... ;) :D
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
That's not fair Jeff!
well i dont even know what it is, from the blur in the photo it looks like its got a pitman arm on the right, along with some woodchips.
Why!, that's an Axe. .........and that's a log on that trolley. .......and that machine is some kind of gang saw, I'll bet. Shucs!, and WoodMizer thought they were first. :D
well that clears it up tom, i couldnt for the life of me figger out what that axe lookin thing was.
whats running it?
That fellow holding it is running it. He's not too experienced yet, you can tell by the way it is resting on the log. It's hard to keep a good Axeman, I hear. Soon as they figure out what it's all about, the county hires them. :D
Its an old european gang sash saw. The saws are pretty much blurred do to thier motion.
Here is the modern counterpart
http://www.sawingtechnology.com/id27.htm
Article on Curve Sawing
http://www.southernlumberman.com/vserver/hb/display.cfm?MagazineKey=3&IssueKey=116&SectionKey=535&ArticleKey=1270
That's quite an interesting photo. I was actually convinced it was some kind of debarking machine. Now with those links about curve sawing, it becomes even more interesting. It would definately reduce waste, but you'de likely be using short pieces wouldn't you?
Swamp,
Officiandos of curve sawing claim that a curve-sawed board will straighten with proper drying techniques. :-\ :)
Tom,
With there being tension wood in hardwood and compression wood in softwood, kinda makes it hard to swallow. I don't think the stress disappears with drying, but I've been wrong before. ;) I'de certainly use the wood though, because most projects I ever made used pieces under 4 feet long.
The tensions and compressions in the lumber result from sawing across grain. If you follow the grain, there should be reduced tension.
This is sort of a backwards process. If you saw wood in compression or tension straight, crossing the grain, it will move as it dries leaving the boards twisted or bowed. If you can saw with the grain, you get movement, but the boards straighten out instead (if dried properly).
That is my understanding of the process.
Here's some info I found interesting:
The shrinkage in tension wood is most pronounced longitudinally (with the length of the grain), which can be 3 to 5 times greater than in normal wood. Also one side of the tree stem is normal wood, opposite the tension side. You also can get collapse in the wood fibres which isn't recoverable.
In compression wood, shrinkage logitudinally can be 10 times as great as normal wood and there is reduced lateral skrinkage (across the grain), with radial and tangential changes in compression wood about half as great as normal wood. The unusually large shrinkage along the grain causes boards containing compression wood to warp and twist badly. The balsam wooly aphid can cause similar physical characteristic of compression wood from hormonal injections by the insect.
(source: Textbook of Wood Technology)
QuoteThis is sort of a backwards process. If you saw wood in compression or tension straight, crossing the grain, it will move as it dries leaving the boards twisted or bowed. If you can saw with the grain, you get movement, but the boards straighten out instead (if dried properly).
this makes sense to me!
interesting stuff
Here is a rather interesting scene from an old stereoview card I have.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/two_boys_with_logging_sm.jpg)
Hey! Look! It's me! ;D
I always knew there were knomes in the forest. ;D
these were absolutely wonderful pictures! wish my dad would get a computer so i could show him. he LOVES this stuff! thanks for sharing them with us.
Some of these pictures depress me a bit, my kids won't have many chances to see one of those big trees because a bunch of greedy morons cut down everything in sight.
I'm Not against logging but it makes me freakin sick when I see another chunk of land clear cut. Some idiot bought a chunk down the road with 4 200+ year old live oaks that was just what was facing the road who knows what was back in there. Anyway now it's just 20 acres clear cut to build another treeless subdivision.
Quote from: firtol88 on April 10, 2005, 11:01:28 AM
Some of these pictures depress me a bit, my kids won't have many chances to see one of those big trees because a bunch of greedy morons cut down everything in sight.
I'm Not against logging but it makes me freakin sick when I see another chunk of land clear cut. Some idiot bought a chunk down the road with 4 200+ year old live oaks that was just what was facing the road who knows what was back in there. Anyway now it's just 20 acres clear cut to build another treeless subdivision.
Thank a conservative,.... for the ravages of capatilism.
firto
I have a suggestion for something positive you can do....start collecting money, donations and sponsers. then buy that tract and put it in a trust, then you can do what you like with what belongs to you let it grow old, rot and regrow.whatever.
That is your freedom ,just like the "moron" who cut his :)
MY american perspective:
I tend to disagree with the attitude toward "greedy morons" and how they handled our resources early on. Looking back, yes, we certainly could have done things differently, BUT. The harvesting of that timber is what built our country. The want for the timber drove railroads across what would become our nation. The need for that timber built the towns and the cities and all the supporting industries that fed the people that built this nation. Timber, and the desire for it is what drove us to spread from sea to shining sea. Without it, we would not be what we are today
Man is to self centered. Everything must revolve around him. The life of these old forests are but a mere blip in the annuls of time. And mans existence? Just a blip on a blip. These forests will come and go and then come again as they always have. Man feels himself to be so self important that he sometimes says "Were going to destroy the world if we don't stop what we are doing". WRONG. We may destroy our ability to survive on this great planet, but time will march on and nature will replace us with something else and trees will grow large and grand and will have no memory of us. Man feels he must measure everything in relation to his time of existence. Thats a farce. God is the eternity. As I said we are a blip on a blip.
Well said Jeff. There is no time that I feel less significant than walking in the woods and thinking of all the things the woods have seen and WILL see that I can never imagine. Truly makes my belief in a God that had the foresight and ability to put this wonderful world of ours together,much much stronger. I wonder how many of us on this forum,when things aren't going exactly the way we want in our lives,actually find that a walkin the woods,not sawing or cutting,just a walk,brings peace back to our lives?
Sure works for me ;)
Sandmar
I agree with what Jeff said, and how well he put his thoughts into words.
I was trying to think of the right things to say, but Jeff said it best, IMO.
I believe the tree is there to either look at, to be warmed by, to make things from, or to let fall and rot. They are magnificent, and I like to see the pictures of the big, old growth ones that used to be here. Doesn't bother me that they are not still here, as either they gave up their space for someones garden plot, or their house, or were turned into someone else's home, etc. As close as the trees were in many places, there was little to no wildlife, or space to grow food. Just my thoughts.
A walk in the woods, and a 'sit' in the woods, is magnificent.
I dont usually put photos on in a large format, but this one is special. Ron Scott gave it to me a couple weeks ago. Its a big photo. 16 inches by 20 inches. Its been hand tinted, as they often did old photographs. On the back is written:
"Logging on the Nicolet National Forest"
Click on the thumbnail if you wish to see the large photo. :)
(https://forestryforum.com/media/ron_scott_fs_photo_thumb.jpg) (https://forestryforum.com/media/ron_scott_fs_photo.jpg)
:D ooops now I feel like Bill Cosby at a NAACP rally trying to explain why ebonics is a bad thing.
Where to start... Alright to me cutting down specimen trees... just makes no sense. I can't see what they would get or how it could be worth the price. Anyway around here land goes for about 35 an acre and certain things can add to that like say an old oak. My last place had two old oaks and if you listen to the realtor they were worth about 30 a piece (almost an extra acre each, since I only had one this made a big difference); guess she was right because I cleared about 60 more than I thought I would. Anyway my point is, sure clean out the scrub but leave the ones that deserve it. Just a guess ::) but I'm thinking that type of tree brings so much because they can't be replaced even in several generations. Plant it today and hope a hurricane or tornado doesn't hit it if it makes it past that disease and... your great great great great great great great great great grandchildren (roughly 11 generations if they make it through college before breeding) might be able to climb on something like those bulldozers just knocked down.
For the one who blamed capitalism (Touché), though partially right it also requires stupidity.
For the one talking about collecting money no need, I have 12 acres now with a few old oaks. If all goes well I'll get the 4 acres next door keep the back three and sell the house with the remaining one which is on the big side for a lot around here now. Anyway I'll save a few for my kid's kids and if nothing knocks them down they'll go a few hundred years more.
Anyway I don't propose to tell people how to use their land, as I wouldn't have it either.
I see no reason in trying to educate them it's like the front yard junk yard effect common with the sub 100 club you can't help them see it as a problem so why bother trying.
Back to the historical aspect I stand by my moron call but agree that our country needed it. I just wish they would have done a better job or exercised a little forethought.
*edited for the thin skinned :'(
Not to take anything away from Jeff, or firtol88, just my observations.
When I was little they cleared a big tract of really big ole oak and other hardwood trees almost right behind our house. I still remember my dad fussing about it. These were big trees. Maybe not first growth but at the least second growth. At least that's what I think.
You know what, some of my BEST memories of childhood were climbing in, playing in, and hiding in them big ole tree tops after they cut them trees. At different times I was a Indian, a soldier, a settler, a wild animal, heck you just name it. My imagination could run wild. With the undergrowth and honeysuckle vines that soon started taking over in moved the deer. I've stayed hid in them tree tops lots of times and watched em play.
Also they left enough older or misshapen trees that there were plenty of squirrels. I could climb like a squirrel. I've climbed lots of them big trees just so I could look in the nests they'd build. Or watch the birds. Sometimes I'd stay there for hours just observing what was around me.
In a matter of years as the small oaks and hickories kept springing up they eventually started shading back out the undergrowth. Without the shade of the bigger cover trees they grew fast. About 10 years ago this tract of timber was once again cut over. Pretty dang good logs come out of it too.
Once again the undergrowth sprang up. And now the hardwoods trees are taking over again. And so the cycle continues.
I figure you can't stop a landowner from cutting his own trees. And unless you make a field or a subdivision out of it you can't stop the trees from growing back.
There was big trees when the dinosaurs ruled, there are big trees now, and there will be big trees when the insects take over.
Well, 300 acre clear cuts are normal here. The thing that bothers me is the hardwoods are going fast. None are replanted, the clear cuts are all rowed up and replanted in pine. For maybe ten years now The Timber Company ,and when they sold out Plum Creek, has been spraying the hardwood timber to kill it in their plantations. The look of our woods have really changed in the last 15 years. Its to the point that I don't mind cutting pine off of our land, but I can't cut any of my hardwood. :(
My wife is trying to find my collection of old logging pics, when she does I'll show yall what Arkansas logs should look like. ;D
8) 8) 8)
smiley_annoyed01 smiley_furious3 seems to be par for the course... A real shame as pretty as Arkansas forests are. :'(
Quote from: Rockn H on April 12, 2005, 12:32:27 AM
Well, 300 acre clear cuts are normal here. The thing that bothers me is the hardwoods are going fast. None are replanted, the clear cuts are all rowed up and replanted in pine.
Ain't a lot of Arkansas hit buy the oak beetle blight??
Bibbyman, I couldn't find any info on that, only Sudden oak death. Haven't heard of it locally, Southeast corner, in the delta. At one time work crews injected each tree individually, now they are able to cropdust with a hardwood specific herbicide. We have asked some of the foresters what the thought behind it is, no one seems to know. ::) They all admit you have to have hardwood to make paper. For several years now the paper mill has been swapping pine for hardwood. Just an example, six trucks a day bring hardwood from Grenada MS and take pine back. The plywood plants are looking at converting over to OSB. Not a lot of veneer logs left, they are aiming for 14" dbh. One of the plants has already added an OSB line. It don't take much to make them chips. ;D
Here's one pic of a few logs being hauled. It's in front of the courthouse in 1902.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12331/rh19.jpg)
I came across some great old photos in a junk store today. A couple real good logging train photos and a bunch of camp photos. So far no clue where they are from, but I do beleive the phots relate to one another. For instance, two photos taken at the camp dinner table from opposite ends. Same room, different faces. My scanner isnt working so I have to take photos of the photos with my camera which does not work well.
Here is one of the train photos.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/tressel.jpg)
HOLY LOGTRAIN, Batman! :o :o Now that's a trestle! Musta been a whack-o-logs at the landing for them to donate that many to getting the rest of'em out. Great shot! :)
A lot of resource used in that one that's for sure. REID
Most times logging rails were taken up for future use once that logging chance was cleared, as I am sure, were trestles of this type.
WIsh my scanner was working. Camera does nothing for these photos. :-\\
Flash washes most of it out.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/log_train.jpg)
Jeff,
don't use the flash. Use natural light if you can. Take the picture outside and square it up with the camera so you don't have to hold either. Have your setup in indirect lighting, like on a porch or under a tree. If the light is bright enough, back light the picture. This will help to get rid of most of the flare.
Flare is caused by the surface of the picture not being flat too. One way is to mount it on a board that has double stick tape on it. Just don't leave it there so that it is stuck permanently.
By using the view screen on the back of the camera, you will get the same benefits that a Photographer gets when he uses a Graphic View. You can see the shadows, flares and tell whether the subject is evenly lit. You just have to train your eye to look for the lighting. Our mind's eye tends to cover those things up without our knowing it until we become aware. :)
Picked this up at the flea market this past weekend. The fellow had it there a year ago and I didn't get it.
He still had it this year so I made a deal! ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10577/logging%202.JPG)
Caption reads: "Railroads Serve the Seaports"
It's from a series of railroad pics, but only this one had logs in it.
If you look close, there are bundles of slab wood on the ship's deck.
Hey Furby,
Cool pic! What fleamarket are you talking about? Allegan? Where do you like to go to browse through the junque? ;)
Allegan's alright, but kinda expensive. I like Centerville too, though it's a bit of a drive.
Ludington Fairgrounds, small fleamarket but a way to spend a Saturday morning when up at the lake.
Some Forestry History of the Fundy Ecosystem - Link (http://www.unbf.ca/forestry/centers/cwru/soe/timeline.htm)
This is a great thread that I always have a hard time finding. With spring break up here, for many people, maybe some folks will have time to add to it.
---A reminder to NOT use copyrighted photos ;D
Wow,what a thread!Yes.It's statring to get soft around here.I'm trying to finish up a load of hardwood pulp.We're buying back the old farm land.We want to see the deer in the lower end of the field.After about 3 loads that should make a big differance. Mostly white maple and all the trees are crooked.Guess these stopped the wind so mine would grow nice and straight.
Hope this is the right place. Have been reading the thread - all 24 pages.
Round about 2004- mention is a made of a book on logging operations in Maine - being sent to moderator.
Any chance I might get the name of the book.
I recently bought a vintage 1920 to 1951-ish logging camp formerly owned by Brown Company of Berlin, NH. Really would like to get some more info on it - and maybe even photo's of the Upper Dam Logging camp - on Upper Richardson and Mooselook Lakes, Richardsontown Twp, ME.
My only previous logging experience was grandfather lost three fingers to a wood mill before he decided to take up farming in the 1890's.
Any help or suggestions on books or ?? - really helpful.
Photo links on logging equipment also useful - seem to have bought a pile of old tools with the camp - including a Gabriel Horn.
frozenoem first welcome to the forum :) we have a lot ofmembers up your way and I'm sure some one will be along shortly with some info for you
Check out the link below for some great old photos of the logging history in West Virginia. I beleive the first 1,000 :o or so pictures are of logging.
http://images.lib.wvu.edu/cgi/i/image/image-idx?c=wvcp
Just go to browse and the logging section will come up first. Also you will see lots of photos of the Cass area and logging on Spruce Knob mountain. If this type of history is your thing I highly recommend checking out www.cassrailroad.com which is a state park here in Cass WV. They still run the shay locomotives every week. It is an outstanding trip especially if you do it the fall during the changing colors of the trees. If anyone ever goes I recommend you take the trip all the way to the top of Spruce Knob. Not to brag but if you do go in the fall you will see real quick why it's call "Almost Heaven West Virginia".
Great photos......It's very easy to see that steam and coal played a large part in the success of the logging industry. ;) ;)
Nice Photos,
I sure wish I didn't have dial-up so I could look at photos more quickly. :(
Here is another cool site www.steaminthewoods.com (http://www.steaminthewoods.com/)
Lots of great old photos too :)
A man working at IBM, and still on dialup? :D
I can highly recomend the Cass Railroad,visited several years ago. Got a cab ride back down,even got to drive a little. What a treat fora grown kid! How many of you have driven a shay ,,huh,how many. NAH NAH NAH ;D ;D ;D ;D
The Fryeburg Fair (coming up in late Sept- early Oct) has a humongous collection of old wood and logging equipment. More every year. I thought about Jeff and the forum when I went last year. Most every year I will sketch some tool I want to go home and build The most recent were a cheese plress and some cow hobbles (OK, so those tdon't have much to do with logging, but..) lw
Hey Frozenoem- I got your personal post and this (copied at the end of the post- see below..) is the advert from Arcadia Publishing about that book. I will put it in the personals as well. This is as close as I can come without finding my own copy (it's in this house somewhwere..) lw
Quote from: frozenoem on March 20, 2006, 11:19:57 PM
Hope this is the right place. Have been reading the thread - all 24 pages.
Round about 2004- mention is a made of a book on logging operations in Maine - being sent to moderator.
Any chance I might get the name of the book.
I recently bought a vintage 1920 to 1951-ish logging camp formerly owned by Brown Company of Berlin, NH. Really would like to get some more info on it - and maybe even photo's of the Upper Dam Logging camp - on Upper Richardson and Mooselook Lakes, Richardsontown Twp, ME.
My only previous logging experience was grandfather lost three fingers to a wood mill before he decided to take up farming in the 1890's.
Any help or suggestions on books or ?? - really helpful.
Photo links on logging equipment also useful - seem to have bought a pile of old tools with the camp - including a Gabriel Horn.
Tell A Friend
To: Name:
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Message:
Logging and Lumbering in Maine
Quantity:
Click on the state flag below for other books on "Maine"
Author(s): Donald A. Wilson
ISBN: 0738505218
Price: $19.99
# of Pages: 128
Publisher: Arcadia Publishing
Publication Date: 06/06/2001
Book Description: Known as the Pine Tree State, Maine once led the world in lumber production. It was the first great lumber-producing region, with Bangor at its center. Today, the state has nearly eighteen million acres of timberland, and forest products still make up a major industry. Logging and Lumbering in Maine examines the history from its earliest roots in 1630 to the present, providing a pictorial record of land use and activity in Maine. The state's lumber industry went through several historical periods, beginning with the vast pine and spruce harvests, the organization of major corporate interests, the change from sawlogs to pulpwood, and then to sustained yields, intensive management, and mechanized harvesting. At the beginning, much of the region was inaccessible except by water, so harvesting activities were concentrated on the coast and along the principal rivers. Gradually, as the railroads expanded and roads were constructed into the woods, operations expanded with them and the river systems became vitally important for the transportation of timber out of the woods to the markets downstate. Logging and Lumbering in Maine traces these developments in the industry, taking a close look at the people, places, forests, and machines that made them possible.
Author Bio: Author Donald A. Wilson has published more than twenty books and other materials about the Maine woods. He holds forestry degrees from the University of Maine and the University of New Hampshire and has taught at both institutions for many years. Wilson's appreciation of the history and importance of the Maine woods has been gleaned throughout his life from firsthand experience and from learning from those who came before him, when loggers "let daylight into the swamp."
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• From World War II to Katrina
• Jews in Milwaukee, From Early Days to Today
• Trains rumble past lost orange groves again, this time in miniature
• A Local's Ode to the Wharf
I'm about halfway through. Lots of amazing photo in this thread! Better set aside a couple of hours if you're going to start at the begining! :)
Dave
On one of the recent axmen contests, I had a bonus question asking about the cover on the august 1945 edition of Popular Mechanics. That is one of the magazines in my collection. I thought you might like to see some of the photos of not only the cover, but from the contents as well.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/2/pop_mech_august_1945.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/2/manned_skycar_1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/2/manned_skycar_2.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/2/manned_skycar_3.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/2/manned_skycar_4.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/2/manned_skycar_5.jpg)
There was only two small chunks of texts with the article.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/2/manned_skycar_6.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/2/manned_skycar_7.jpg)
Great old iron, but I'd be too chicken to sit up there. ;D :D Great to see the thread bumped to the top of the heap BTW. ;D
anyone have any pictures of the linsey eight wheel log wagon with oxen or mules ronnie tucker mule logger in tn
Quote from: ronnie tucker on April 02, 2009, 10:14:04 PM
anyone have any pictures of the linsey eight wheel log wagon with oxen or mules ronnie tucker mule logger in tn
I remember seeing the real thing, 8 wheels, all small diameter, but quite wide. I can get my hands on a pic or 2. will post..
ronnie,I have the book,Endless Tracks In the Woods by James a Young and Jerry D. Budy.Not a cheap book,probably $60 by now,but it's worth it.Lots of pictures in it.There are 9 entries about the Lindsey Wagon Co.One more that tells about the owner of it.They said John Lindsey from Laurel,MS developed an 8 wheel wagon with independent suspension for each wheel,patented in 1910 and became an industry standard for 50 years.The use of 8 wheels also allowed small diameter wheels,reducing the height of the log bunks.There are only 3 pictures of mules pulling the wagons.The rest are being pulled by tracked vehicles or showing just the wagons.
Found this photo behind my desk when I moved into my office. It just says "Rabun County, Ga." on the back, so I have no idea when it was taken or who's in the picture.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/15533/poplarlog.jpg)
Probably a while. ;D That's quite a stick on that wagon in the middle of the train. ;)
Years ago I got a 3 ring notebook at an estate sale that had about 20 old cabinet photos in it. There is nothing wrote on them, so I dont know anything about them. Here are the first 3.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/2/oldphoto_1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/2/oldphoto_2.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/2/oldphoto_3.jpg)
I bet that little lokey was a tippy ride,tall and short like that
pineywoods did you see this wagon in use there in your state ronnie tucker tn logger
Quote from: ronnie tucker on April 07, 2009, 10:27:06 AM
pineywoods did you see this wagon in use there in your state ronnie tucker tn logger
Yep, sure did. I've got a line on some pics, but gotta make a trip to get them. Folks here used mules, not oxen. But now you have to remember, I'm older than dirt :(
pineywoods i use a log wagon on my timber jobs with one or two pair of mules i look forward to your pictures do you live on the east side next to ms ronnie tucker
I like those old pics Jeff, whenwill you be able to stick a few more of them on here ,???
If ya'll will bear with me, I would like to tell a story and share some pics about a man and one of the biggest trees he ever cut and hauled. He influenced me to be what I am today concerning the love of sawdust and the smell of fresh turned earth and crushed pine needles. My Grandaddy Knight was born on Oct. 6, 1913 and grew up plowing mules and working in the woods. I recall stories of a boy tagging along as trees were marked, later skidding logs with mules and oxen, and finally driving a log truck without doors or a windshield down to the riverbank where he would drop his bolsters and roll logs into the river. He left the wooded hills of Clarke County during WW2 to work at the shipyard in Mobile, Al. Soon though he was able to get a work deferral back home to log timber for the war effort. By 1949 he was in business for himself and had a 49 Mack truck and two big mules. Nell (white) and Jim (red). These mules loaded the big SYP but were replaced by a crawler tractor that increased effeciency in the early fifties.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12960/donk_grandaddy6_jpg.jpg)
He hauled logs to Cogle Lumber Company in Thomasville and was due to move onto the Austin Place to cut. He took my daddy one Sat. to walk over the land and they walked upon the big tree in a creek flat. Daddy was in school the day the big tree was cut so this is where my recollection of my Grandaddy's story takes over and sadly a good bit is lost to faded memory. After lunch he sent his two sawhands with their axes and crosscut saw to cut the big tree. He said it was late in the day when the big tree hit the ground with a tremendous crash that shook the ground. The tree was bucked into four logs that scaled close to 2000 bdft. The logs were skidded close to a roadbed for loading. The smaller logs were parbuckled onto the trailer with Nell and Jim with the butt cut left for last. Grandaddy said they had never loaded a log that big and was unsure they were up to it. He repostioned the truck in a deeper section of road and set up the crosshaul. The loading chain can be seen in this photo.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12960/donk_grandaddy4_jpg.jpg)
Well old Jim was prone to lazy streak and would hold back and let Nell do most of the pulling when things got tough. Grandaddy said that when the log was close to breaking over the top, Jim backed off and left Nell holding the load with locked legs. He promptly let old Jim have it in the flanks and the log fell into place. He hauled the load to the mill the next day and thankfully Mr. Cogle got a photographer to record the event. It would be a shame to not have these photos. I would give anything to go back and record all his stories and to be able to walk with him in the woods again. I miss my Grandaddy and he left a void that can never be filled. :'( Thank you for allowing me to tell this story about a small part of my heritage.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12960/donk_grandaddy1_jpg.jpg)
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This is Mr. Cogle standing on the log.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/12960/donk_grandaddy5_jpg.jpg)
Grandaddy and his old dump truck.
Don
Thanks for sharing Don. Wonderful story and great pictures. 8)
I forgot to add that he retired from the woods in 1981 when I was a junior in highschool, so I got to spend several years in the woods with him. He told my mama that he would have liked me to take over the business but would not mention it because he was scared I would have quit school.
Don
Don that was one of the best stories I have seen in a long time. Those are some wonderful pictures.
Thank you for sharing them with us.
I know what it is Don to miss a grandpa. Mine made a living in the woods logging and guiding fish and game sports men and women since 14 years old and never took no hand outs. :)
That was a great story Don. We all should be so lucky as to have had a Grandpa like that. :)
Thanks for that Don! Loved it. :)
Awesome Don 8) I learned to drive in a truck only a couple years newer than that. It had a windshield but the doors were missing. There was a grain box on the back. If there had been a tree within 5 miles I'da probably ran into it. ;D
Gday
Nice pics and a great story Don ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
Ill have to get hold of some of my family pics and scan n post em there are about 6 albms in all from the 40s to the eirly 90s and ill throw in afew off dad and i with the log building aswell ;) ;D 8)
Reguards Chris
This DVD is still the best film I have ever seen for old time logging. It's an hour's worth of logging history that has never been equaled.
http://cgi.ebay.com/NATURAL-TIMBER-COUNTRY-Forestry-Logging-RARE-DVD_W0QQitemZ360147216607QQihZ023QQcategoryZ617QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
A neighbor loaned me these pics. Thought you guys mike like to see them. They are from small-time logging operations in the woods of north louisiana, made somewhere around 1930. The wagons, called linsey wagons, were the heavy duty log trucks in their day. Rough guess, the loads are around 18,000 to 20,000 pounds. 6 mule teams were the normal motivation, I remember seeing the mule teams but never saw oxen. These rigs belonged to one of my great uncles, his son, now in his 90's loaned me the pictures.
He says his dad abandoned the oxen and went to big mules because the mules were faster and much smarter.
Trees were cut with 2 man crosscut saws, loaded on the wagons by cross-hauling up ramps (parbuckle to you folks). Trip to the mill was 5 or 6 miles.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14000/1153/linsey1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14000/1153/linsey2.jpg)
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Neat pictures, piney.
Don
Some mighty fine photography there 8) That young fella in the back is putting a lot of trust in his peavey :D :D
Nice pictures pineywoods. I enjoy'm. :) Not many mules used in logging up this way that I knew of. It was mostly large work horses. Before photography it was oxen mostly I think because that's what seems to be recorded in history here. Some of this area wasn't really settled this far upstream until the late 18th century, were more coastal communities settled much earlier.
i love the pictures of the log wagons would like to talk with you piney if you care too call me EDITED i would like to hear from you ronnie tucker tn logger
Ronnie Tucker, I edited out your phone number as I dont think its a good idea to post your private information public on the open forum without you first knowing you can send the information to the member privately by clicking on his name, going to his profile, and select "Send this member a personal message."
You can put it back if you want, but I wouldn't.
Found a few more from the early 1900's
Linsey wagon loaded with 3 what look like oak logs. Must have been flat terain, only 4 mules.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14000/1153/DSC00613.JPG)
When all else failed, human muscle was used..
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Railroads played an important part in the timber industry in the south. this engine belonged to the Union sawmill co. union co. ark. Pulled a train of purpose built, short 4 wheel rail cars. Wood fueled. Rail was laid through a timber tract and logs skidded from the woods for 1/4 mile on both sides of the rail line. Skidding and loading done by a steam powered skidder/loader called a donkey, mounted on a rail car right behind the engine. I'm still looking for some pictures of one. When the train left the mill at 6:30 am every morning, the engineer would toot the whistle to wake up the whole town. Didn't need no alarm clocks ;D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14000/1153/DSC00620.JPG)
Yeah, rail roads got built here to for the timber. Old Alexander "Boss" Gibson was a timber baron, he put the rail through. My mom's uncle took old color video from the late 40's (no sound) of the "Tobique" steam engine. He was a rail road foreman for 40 years, there was no slackers on his watch. ;) Grandmother used to go to town on it all the time, like a taxi. ;D They only lived 5 miles out of town.
Thanks for all the stories and pics, you guys. This is really, really cool.
My wife's family has a lot of history in the Michigan area. Farmers, loggers, and the like. Good folks. My father-in-law grew up in Riverdale, MI. He has some old photos of his grandfather (and maybe his father) logging. They have some pretty good size logs on a sled, hitched up to some mules. Was just talking the mom (my mother-in-law) and was telling her about the FF and this thread in particular. She said she will see about making copies of those photos and send them to me. If/when she does, I'll scan them in and share them.
Here's a couple of photos of the linsey heavy duty log wagon, empty so you can see how they were built. Elderly neighbor tells me they were so DanG heavy, it took 2 good mules to pull just the empty wagon...But they would easily haul a 10 to load of logs..
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14000/1153/linseyw1.jpg)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14000/1153/linseyw2.jpg)
Interesting! Up here no wood moved in the summer, only in snow so it was all heavy bob sleds.
I found this post card a few months back, thought I might share it... the back says:
Seattle Cedar Mill's Drying Stacks
Ballard, Washington, 1919
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You can't really tell in this 500 pixel version, but those are pilings that the stacks are sitting on, and everything there is above water. In a 1923 Seattle phone directory (http://distantcousin.com/Directories/WA/Seattle/1923/Pages.asp?Page=1290), the address for Seattle Cedar is 1540 West 46th street, which would put these stacks on Salmon Bay, just west of the Ballard Bridge.
Anyone have a picture of what they used to get the boards up that high?
-N.
Gday
Thank God for Forklifts ;) :D ;D that stacks about 12' wide n 50' + high all hand stacked :) :) its amazing how they did it back then but thats what happend when you had few options just Get it Done ;) Ive got pics from where i use to work at one Hardwood mill from when they started in the 30s n 40s they had the first H/wood Reco & drying kilns in australia the whole Adry yard 20 acres was stacked by hand and verry neatly too ;) ;D 8)
Regards Chris
8) Notice the odd board sticking out farther than the rest? I bet you can stand on one of them to stack a few layers. Leave another one sticking out and work your way up!
I agree with Sprucegum. They have built-in steps/platforms to stand on as they handed up each board and sticker. All done by hand.
Shipping lumber by rail was all hand stacked in the box cars, just not too many years ago (for us "old" folk ;D ).
Not completely manual, there was a machine, a conveyor elevator type rig that lifted the boards to the guys stacking on top of the pile. I either have photos or a video clip here somewhere of one in action. I've just got to remember where.
Logging near Richwood, W VA , circa 1890's. Now the Monongahela National Forest. Photo is in the Cranberry Mountain Visitor Center on Kennison Mountain, Gauley Ranger District.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/logging_history_richwood_w_va.JPG)
Same with loading pulpwood, all by hand and it had to be peeled before hand. Dad said he did it as late as the 60's, it was his wood and all that labour for $20 a cord. The last river drive was in the 60's here. Today a weir in the river can still be seen above the Beechwood dam where logs were to be gathered, it never got used. It's not far from here.
Quote from: Jeff on August 18, 2009, 12:32:31 PM
Not completely manual, there was a machine, a conveyor elevator type rig that lifted the boards to the guys stacking on top of the pile. I either have photos or a video clip here somewhere of one in action. I've just got to remember where.
Oooh, that would be cool to see...
-N.
If anyone has read the book Tall trees, Tough men, this is an excellent book on old time logging camps and the historic timber industry of the northeast. I reccomend it to all who have an interest in the subject. :P
My grandfather lived through it. There were times there was no camp, just a lean-to or a shed where you stayed with the horses. One time my grandfather said all he had was a barrel and his Hudson Bay sleeping robe. No wonder he was afflicted by the Rheumatism.
I came across this outstanding collection tonight on the University of Minnesota Duluth website.
http://www.d.umn.edu/cla/faculty/troufs/Buffalo/PB39.html
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I was doing some cleanup work the other day and came across this old picture of Uncle Chick's steam engine powered circle mill. You can see the back of Uncle Chick's neck just to the left of the guy with the T-shirt. The picture was taken about 1970. I'm not sure who the two other guys are.
Real nice pics and stories.
Excellent post Jeff.
My Grandfather (mom's dad) was born in a lumber camp in the Adirondack Mountains here in NY.
He grew up helping his mom with kitchen duties and later became an entertainer (singer/story teller) at the camp.
We have a museum here that tells a lot of the history with thousands of pictures and stories.
The Adirondack Museum at Blue Mountain Lake.
Driving dam at the head of the left hand branch of the Tobique River (Little Tobique). Sagamook Mountain in the back ground, the site of Adam Moores Guide camps. Now part of Mnt Carleton Provincial Park since 1967. Logs where drove down to the Fraser saw mill in Plaster Rock where there has been a mill now for 125 years. Ever since the rail road was pushed into Plaster Rock, just a spur line from Perth for 25 miles. When I was a kid the remains of the dam were still there and a bridge crossed over it. There were also remains of the dam on the Pokiok Stream, a tributary of the Tobique. Timbering in the area had been going on long before Moore built his camps. One time these logs would have gone down river for 180 miles to Fredericton where Fraser's were first operating. The Little Tobique is narrow, but very deep.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Tobique_Drive.jpg)
Quote from: Bibbyman on December 24, 2010, 11:00:20 AM
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10034/wsunclechick20101224.JPG)
I was doing some cleanup work the other day and came across this old picture of Uncle Chick's steam engine powered circle mill. You can see the back of Uncle Chick's neck just to the left of the guy with the T-shirt. The picture was taken about 1970. I'm not sure who the two other guys are.
Gday Bibby Thats a nice piece of family history you have there I assume thats the same mill you dragged home from out in the paddock awhile back ??? thanks for sharing Mate
Regards Chris
1961, southern Missouri
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We found this in a box of photos, was taken about 1894-95, Langley & Alderson engine out of Merrill WI.I believe. My GreatGrandfather is second from the left on the logs. He was about 18 or 19. Hope to find some more the rest of the boxes.
More early photos from my area and I apologize that they have deteriorated so much. All of these a friend of mine brought me and allowed me to copy with my now obsolete 35mm and copy stand... now the elderly lady he had borrowed them from are gone and so are the originals. These are really early photos from this area. I like the photos of the Wannigan which was the cook shack that floated down the river with the drivers, see those guys standing there on it? Talk about a rough looking bunch of characters :D :D :D
And the pics where they are running the Dales on the Wolf River... that spot is just a few miles away from me and they were just doing it for fun I am sure. You can see in another photo the log jam there which was not for fun... one hell of a lot of timber was floated down that river and it built the city of Chicago and other developing communities of the time. Now it is a destination for "tubers" who like to float down the river when the weather is nice. And white water canoe lovers who enjoy a challenge. But the river drivers did it for a living... they battled with this river to get the logs down to the sawmills... A lot f them are buried on the banks of the river with no headstone.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/17553/1886/3-23-2011_030_%282%29.jpg)
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Nice pictures.
There wasn't much for photos that I've seen about logging in these parts, but a little history.
Old "Boss" Alexander Gibson was an old timber baron here in NB and also had cotton mills. He pushed the railroad throughout rural NB to access timber lands. With George Stephen and Donald Smith, he got financing for the joining of NB rail road to Montreal on the CP rail. Stephen was a railroad tycoon and Smith (his cousin) was a HBC factor that became it's governor. Both became rich and sat in the house of Lords in England known as 1st Baron Mount Stephen and Lord Strathcona, respectively. However Boss Gibson died poor, the depression bankrupted him as he gave his wealth away to help the poor that lost their jobs in Marysville (a suburb of Fredericton). There is little record of the Boss, no paperwork and pictures if any are rare. I think a lot of stuff got destroyed. Stephen built a fishing lodge up on the Gaspe, his niece turned into the Reford Gardens (it's a botanical park you can see now) and Smith built a fishing lodge here in NB on the Tobique River for salmon fishing. He never made it to the lodge though, before it burned down. Lord "Maxwell Aitkin" Beaverbrook, a media baron and Churchill's cabinet minister for the war effort in England, sold the Gibson's railroad land (1000 acres per track mile) to K.C. Irving in 1946, who was a baron himself of timber and oil, and news media. Beaverbrook was also from NB and his name is all over the capital city. His money basically built the University of New Brunswick you see today. Those old Scotsmen became filthy rich.
Most members of the family had cameras, but were more inclined to take a picture of a dog, and not so much of a train or a horse hauling wood. Too busy working I guess. :D
I'll add a little note about log runs on the Saint John River. On our property there used to stand an inn that was built in the 1800's. Men travelling the shore on the log drive would stay there annually. When the man who we bought the land from sold it to us, he explained the men working the log drive on the water were a different sort, they were paid more, in cash, and ranged from murderers looking to disappear to just desperate men in need of money. They frequently died or disappeared during the drive, and locals kept the young ladies away from this group when they came though.
Locals were hired to push logs off the shore to keep the mess of logs moving. We didn't get many jams in this area of the river so he didn't know much about that.
In my conversations with Jim Irving, he remembered working during the log drive and passing through Woodstock, NB. I'm not sure in what capacity he was involved, the log drives must have stopped when he was fairly young. The building of power dams on the river stopped the log drive.
There was a few Mills along the river. One was in Van Buren. There are a lot of photos at the library there. Just southEast of Van Buren the river dumps into Grand Falls N.B. The logs probably wouldn't have survived the torment of the Wells and rocks. Quite a few miles of river left from there to support some more Mills though until it dumps into the Ocean.
About '66 was the end of the drive. Irving built some piers above Beechwood dam before it's construction, near Clearview, that never got used when the government stopped the drive.
J. K. Irving's wife, Jean, wrote a book about Rev. R. H. Nicholson from up near Woodstock (Riceville), who was also a painter and teacher. Many of the paintings are of horse logging and camp life, which Jim Irving commissioned Nicholson to paint in 1960 from his memories. The Irvings own many of his paintings, some are at the Faculty of Forestry at U of Toronto. A lot of the scenery you can tell is from Carleton County, you look at them and know exactly were they were if you know the area up along the river valley in the Woodstock area. He would teach Mrs Irving to paint when she enrolled in his classes in 1977. The folks in the family here knew the Rev. because he was a Wesleyan preacher and involved in Bethany (a Wesleyan Bible college), which was founded in Woodstock in 1945 and moved to Sussex in 1966.
I have a copy of the book here signed by Mrs Irving and Rev. Nicholson. My aunt in Sussex, now 80, is a retired teacher and she paints as well. She gave this copy to us.
This is one of Rev. Nicholson's paintings called "Icing at Night".
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I don't know if anyone has seen this, but my grandfather has done this work years ago. They iced the roads to make it easier sledding the wood out of the woods. My grandfather (mom's dad) would have been the same age as the Rev. born 1909. It was dad's side of the family that has the church ties to the Rev. But dad's mom had uncles that were woods contractors or teamster with hired men and camps they built.
The University of California has digitized the Fritz-Metcalf Photograph Collection and put it online for all to browse.
QuoteThe Fritz-Metcalf Photograph Collection is a group of about 9000 photographs relating primarily to forestry, conservation, and the lumber industry in California and the United States. Subjects include logging operations, logging equipment, reforestation, forest research, fire protection, lumber mills, and the activities of the University of California's School of Forestry. The photographs were taken from 1906 to 1984 by Emanuel Fritz, Woodbridge Metcalf and others.
http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/BIOS/fmpc/index.html
Thanks, great resource
You fellas are new to the forum, so you may not have seen this older thread.
Logging camp
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Well, they have to eat to.
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These are from a calender. ;D
Can you make some copies of the calendar ??? I'd send ya some looneys maybe even twoneys for one . :)
Message sent mon ami.
Tractor train arrives at the rail siding, very cold day, 30 below.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_tractor_train.jpg)
That pic reminds me of what my dad told me he did one winter. They had bought a new tractor and took a hauling contract with there cutting contract. The tractor was/is a 1954 Fergusson 2085. Dad had ordered a cab for it and a set of half tracks, tracks arrived but not the cab :-\
Tractor pulled two sets of bob sleighs once the tracks where set and hardened. The haul was about ten miles at the most with one long lake to cross, that was the cold part of the treck, the cab would of made it a nic winter , dad told me he would put the tractor in first gear once on the lake, jump off and run around the tractor and sleighs to stay warm.
Yeah, I don't know how common they were around here unless they cut on company ground. My grandfather and uncle only used horses. And my grandfather used a horse in his teens (1920's) until the early 1980's. Dad started out with horse and went skidder in the late 70's. I remember his black mare he bought and used, had a little old abandoned house on the upper farm with mud floor for the horse to stay in a few times. I remember us going and looking for a horse to. Funny how you can remember stuff like that when your only 5 or 6. :D The old house I can remember up until the 90's sitting near an old apple tree. When we sold stumpage and cleared some farm, I never saw it again and can't remember if it was cleared or just rotted into the ground. We also planted trees, so with all that going on I imagine it got lost.
Logging of Long-Gone Days
http://gowood.blogspot.com/2015/08/logging-of-long-gone-days.html
Very interesting to watch and wonder just how they "took the heat" and the hard work. But they did and we built a lot of things with the wood they produced.
Quote from: Ron Scott on August 11, 2015, 04:39:29 PM
Logging of Long-Gone Days
http://gowood.blogspot.com/2015/08/logging-of-long-gone-days.html
ralph stanley any chance he is from mount dersert island maine? he is a fiddle player but is more well known for building wooden boats. downeast lobster boats and yachts. just wounder if he is the ralph stanley that made the video
I believe this Ralph Stanley is the one from bluegras-mountain music fame that's playing the great music in the slideshow. I know he's a great banjo player, don't know about the fiddle, altho a lot of his kind can play 'bout anything with strings on it. May be another Ralph Stanley who made this, whatever I really appreciate the posting. I think those men were cut from tougher material than I was. Makes me think of some stories I've heard my daddy tell. How did they stack those logs so HIGH ? I wouldn't climb up there if they gave me the logs, the slide, and the horses to boot! Nothing but respect for them. How many of us would make it these days if it was still that rough... but I don'the know, maybe it still is in lots of places. Thanks for the video.
Strap on a brush saw/clearing saw for a 40 hr week and you'll find out. And not on nice ground but hills, rocks and logging residue to climb around. That should be enough. :D
SD
Don't think even that would be half what they were doing... and another vid showing the logging in the Cypress swamps where the heat was what we today think is unbearable.
Not sayin your 40 hour isn't above and beyond... ;)
Enjoyed the video, thanks for sharing!
Thanks Ron, some of those pictures showed some ingenuity and without pictures, unbelievable.
I forgot to mention I liked those old photos to. The music wasn't too bad neither. 8) ;D
Very interesting pictures! Thanks to all.
I lived out in Montana in the late 60's/early 70's and it was not uncommon at that time to see one log loads. Three log loads were the norm. They would push 6' diameter trees off to the side to get them out of the way and leave them, too small. I went back to the areas I lived in at the time, Kalispell/Missoula, and there are no big trees left thirtyfive years later.
Larry
Nope, not for another 400. ;)
I don't know if this has been posted on the Forestry Forum previously but this is a video of the last train load of cypress harvested and milled by Cummer and Son's cypress in Lacoochee, Fl. My great grandfather on my mother's side was a railroad man who lived in Lacoochee. One of my uncles, who died last year at around 93 years old retired from Seaboard Coastline as an engineer but as a young man, he fed wood to feed steam powered engines. Anyway, I heard from one of my cousins that my Uncle Bud had a video tape of this last train of cypress but no one in the family I asked could come up with it. My dad found it on Youtube. The picture quality is not too good but I was glad to find it nonetheless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgRuCJmI_XI&t=1892s
Some of those pictures reminded me of the way they did it here in the Adirondack Mountains of New York!
That's especially true when using the horses! It's a marvel as to what a team of horses can move!!!!
My Maternal Grandfather was born in one of the lumber camps here in the Adirondacks and had many stories to tell about growing up there!
Great Video/pics, thanks for posting!
Yes, for sure about the horses, sometimes two teams hitch to a load. But logging was the main reason for a rail road in these parts. Most of it all abandoned now, but it also helped settle the country moving animals and freight up the river valley.
Enjoyed the cypress logging video caveman. You couldn't complain too much when you had a job. A lot of those old timers lived a long life, so physical work never hurt them, it was often the hazards of the job that shortened the life span of a few or made it difficult.
Very interesting. Thank you, Kyle.
Thank You for that video. Those were some lonesome mournful sounds at the end of a long lost era.
Very interesting video. I loved the early shots of the loggers wading out through the swamps to get to the work area. I know I would not want to be wait to chest deep in gator and moccasin infested water, cypress knees and water bonnets to pull a cross cut saw. I remember my grandfather talking about girdling cypress near there. They'd girdle the trees so they'd die on the stump and float out easier. He'd have to notch the tree root "flares" build a scaffold to stand on then when finished he'd carve or stamp his initials in the tree so they knew who to pay. I think he got 10 cents per tree.
JMoore and I went and got some live oak logs this morning near the Withlacoochee River, which is about 15 minutes from my house. I used to fish and canoe in that river quite a bit several years ago. There are still a few of the big ones left in there. Some of the enormous cypress stumps remain and are rotting from the inside out. A few of the scaffold board notches are still visible in some of them.
There are still plenty of big gators and moccasins in that river. The place where we got the logs this morning has an old Cracker style cypress house on it that flooded during Irma. The owners are going to build another house since mold has evidently made the old house uninhabitable.
Quote from: Ron Wenrich on October 26, 2002, 06:10:42 PM
Den
If you look in the backrground of your first picture, you can see how they used to skid those big logs out by horsepower. There is a really nifty skid trail consisting of split rails. They used to grease those up so that horses could skid them to a landing. Then loaded onto a railcar. It also seems that they used to use the drainage areas ... ie the streams.
Williamsport, PA was the lumber capital of the world in 1850. My, how times have changed. They used to have mills that produced 250 MMbf of lumber per year. 30 Mbf/day was the norm for edging strrips that were turned into kindling for the New York City markets. Most modern mills in our area don't produce that much.
I sit back in awe to see what they used to do 100 years ago as compared to what we can do with our "modernaization". Our mills are smaller, and where we can log is limited by mechanics. I used to mark timber to an area where guys could drag a winch line to. Then I would go up slope another 100 yds. and find a charcoal flat.
One thing to keep in mind that the best production for a shift was set in New Hampshire around 1910 (I believe). Over 100 Mbf in a shift (12 hrs).
Ron,
Do you or anyone else know if this production record stands or was that a record for that period in history? That's a massive amount of lumber. And also do you know at what mill and where in New Hampshire it was?
Being a New Hampshire native and having a great grandfather that worked in the lumbercamps and sawmills of New Hampshire this caught my eye.
I know this quote goes back aways but I enjoy when these older threads resurface. It's hard to comprehend all the info buried back in this forum.
Thanks in advance for any info you might have
Some of the big pine mills in the South are producing 250 MMBF per year.
Is that mostly being cut for the pressure treated market?
Quote from: WDH on December 22, 2017, 11:01:52 PM
Some of the big pine mills in the South are producing 250 MMBF per year.
I can believe that. The new Red Stag mill near Napier here in NZ cuts (if my conversion maths is right) about 220 MMBF, and is boasted as the largest mill in the Southern Hemisphere. Which means there are larger ones Nth of the Equator, probably the ones you are thinking of.
To put that into perspective, that's 8,000 logs per DAY, and the sorting machine is handling 90 boards a minute. Puts our portable sawmills to shame. :D
Product is all grade from premium clear pine to fence posts, and the wood waste powers the drying kilns.
At St Leonard, Irving is producing 340 MMBF per year of SPF lumber and 40 MMBF of hardwood lumber at their Veneer Sawmill there.
At their new Ashland , Maine mill they produce 130 MMBF of 2 x material 6-12' length.
Their Grand Lake mill does 230 MMBF.
Sussex does 120 MMBF, but that mill is their proving grounds, so to speak. They implement the most up to date technology there and probably their best people.
These are all Irving, and they have more mills not listed.
Their waste is hog fuel and pulp material.
Jake (Customsawyer) saws at what is purported to be the largest hardwood sawmill in the US. They use 150 to 175 tractor trailer loads of logs per day. That is 4000 to 5000 tons/day.
Some Canadian Archival shots.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/CFA_Forest_Fire_Prevention_Car1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1514036329)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/square_pine.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1514036485)
Loggers squaring a pine at Jocko River, Ontario, 1890
D
those old broadaxe guys were artists at making a pretty smooth surface
Have seen that engine many times ,but it now has disappeared ,don't know where it went! :(
Quote from: SwampDonkey on March 31, 2011, 10:30:10 PM
About '66 was the end of the drive. Irving built some piers above Beechwood dam before it's construction, near Clearview, that never got used when the government stopped the drive.
J. K. Irving's wife, Jean, wrote a book about Rev. R. H. Nicholson from up near Woodstock (Riceville), who was also a painter and teacher. Many of the paintings are of horse logging and camp life, which Jim Irving commissioned Nicholson to paint in 1960 from his memories. The Irvings own many of his paintings, some are at the Faculty of Forestry at U of Toronto. A lot of the scenery you can tell is from Carleton County, you look at them and know exactly were they were if you know the area up along the river valley in the Woodstock area. He would teach Mrs Irving to paint when she enrolled in his classes in 1977. The folks in the family here knew the Rev. because he was a Wesleyan preacher and involved in Bethany (a Wesleyan Bible college), which was founded in Woodstock in 1945 and moved to Sussex in 1966.
I have a copy of the book here signed by Mrs Irving and Rev. Nicholson. My aunt in Sussex, now 80, is a retired teacher and she paints as well. She gave this copy to us.
This is one of Rev. Nicholson's paintings called "Icing at Night".
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11009/SD_Icing_Roads.jpg)
I don't know if anyone has seen this, but my grandfather has done this work years ago. They iced the roads to make it easier sledding the wood out of the woods. My grandfather (mom's dad) would have been the same age as the Rev. born 1909. It was dad's side of the family that has the church ties to the Rev. But dad's mom had uncles that were woods contractors or teamster with hired men and camps they built.
Starting my second summer doing pct and plantining crew management with Irving in may and I enjoy looking at his paintings in the office on Saint John.
MUD! MUD! MUD! The weather is muddy, should be icy! There shouldn't be no stinkin mud in January!
End of rant!
Carry on. . . . .
Edit to add: Sorry, wrong thread, but carry on just the same.
:P
Ottawa River log rafts with Parliament Hill in the background
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/Timber_raft_parliament_buildings_1882.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1515868305)
D
Few Pic's from my local mill in West Point; they are from other sources .... not mine ~
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/40896/Old_Dominion_Log~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517269216)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/40896/mill2thumb.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1517269181)
Quote from: Jeff on November 02, 2002, 09:13:13 AM
Woe!
I Don't want this to get out of hand now. I don't know what the availability is of the book if any, or what the price is now.
The Book is Titled
Underwter Logging.
Cornell Maritime Press,Inc.
1964
Currently out of print
(https://forestryforum.com/images/YaBBImages/userpics/underwater_logging.jpg)
Now available on Amazon...
There is a book called Forest enterprises of the Adirondacks by steven bick . It covers some of the guys working the woods today.There is a video called from stump to ship it was made in early part of the 1900's i got that last time i was up to Boonville to the woodsman show.
I've recently gotten my hands on a bunch of my grandfather's old photos of various mills he worked at and I thought you guys might like to see some of them as I scan them.
So far, they're mostly from Masten PA, but I think there's some from LaQuin and maybe New York in the box as well.
Employees of Sone's Mills in Masten PA (I'm assuming its around 1915-1920 since that's when the rest of the photos are dated)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48831/postcard_-_Masten_pa_-_Employees_of_Sone_s_Mills_-_Oscar_Dalton_collection~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519100932)
Flood in Masten, PA August 8, 1917
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48831/postcard_-_Masten_pa_-_lumberyard_flood_281029-_8_Aug_1917_-_Oscar_Dalton_collection.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519100564)
Another photo of the flood in Masten, PA August 8, 1917
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48831/postcard_-_Masten_pa_-_lumberyard_flood_28829-_8_Aug_1917_-_Oscar_Dalton_collection.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519100564)
The Masten Athletics, 1916 (if anyone can ID any of the men, please let me know)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48831/postcard_-_Masten_pa_-1916_Masten_Athletics_-_Oscar_Dalton_collection.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519100566)
The NHLA convention in Chicago IL in 1955. My grandfather, Oscar Dalton is in the middle of the front row, but if anyone can ID any of the other gentlemen, please let me know.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48831/photo_-_nhla_convention_-_chicago_ill_-_oct_1955~0.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519100931)
This is only a few miles from my home. My uncle is a Sones. Maybe we are related.
Might be, I know my family was big in the lumber industry out there up until my uncle passed away. Oscar, any my uncle Tom, used to run mills more than own them I think and for the last 40 years or so of his life, my uncle was a lumber grader/inspector out of DuBois.
And here are some pictures from today's scans.
This is Loleta Mill
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48831/Photo_on_board_-_Loleta_Mill_28229_-_Oscar_Dalton_collection.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519182749)
The log pond at Williamsport
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48831/Photo_on_board_-_Williamsport_Mill_Log_Pond_-_Oscar_Dalton_collection.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519182755)
Costello Mill
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48831/Photo_-_Costello_Mill_-_11_Oct_1916_28229_-_Oscar_Dalton_collection.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519182752)
The Masten Hemlock Mill in 1916
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48831/Photo_-_Masten_-_Hemlock_Mill_-_28_Apr_1916_-_Oscar_Dalton_collection.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519182752)
And then I think this is the same mill in Masten during the flood of 1917
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/48831/postcard_-_masten_pa_-_lumberyard_flood_28129-_8_Aug_1917_-_Oscar_Dalton_collection.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519182754)
Appreciate the old pictures mpace89. My family was always on front end of the business, cutting the trees and hauling them or driving them on the rivers. It was seasonal for us, as we were farmers on dad's side and guide/outfitters on mom's side. :)
Nice pictures!
I'm liking the history, thank you for posting!
Here is one of the sawmill that was set up in my home town in GA in the early 1900's. At the time it was the largest sawmill ever constructed East of the Mississippi River. They cut most of the virgin timber off the mountains in NE GA and into Western NC. It was able to saw 125000 BF a day.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/41474/byrd_matthews_lumber_company_001.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1519274674)
An early one log load!
Old Leland 1/2 or offset cab.
Believe its from NZ.
D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/Leyland_logging_truck1.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1553731207)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/Leyland_logging_truck_NZ.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1553731206)
I love all these old pictures. I don't have any to share but I do have a recording of my great grandfather in an interview done by St. Lawrence University. My mom just sent me her copy as mine was not good. It should be there when I get home from the oilfields on the 6th. If I can figure out a way to get it downloaded to my computer, I will share it here.
It is his stories of the lumber camps of the Adirondacks in the early 1900's.
Found a picture today of the old mill that used to be on my parents farm in the 1930s I believe. It's on a local museum web page, and they are particular about reproducing their images, so I'm linking to the museum page.
https://collection.pukeariki.com/objects/166554 (https://collection.pukeariki.com/objects/166554)
When I was growing up all that was left of the mill was the concrete base that supported the saw, sitting in the field behind one of the hay sheds. Further up the farm there were cuttings where the bush railway ran to bring the logs in, and even a tunnel the tracks went though. The old trestle bridges over the streams were gone though.
View from the same location these days, not a trace left
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10460/Kirihau_rd.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1553807661)
Your pic looks like Montana !
The pics are so cool. Even us old guys do not realize how tough things were back in those days!
Well,I see the mountains look the same. :D
Some of us know how tough it is now. :D :D
At least Trump down there didn't impose carbon taxes. Imagine taxation on the carbon cycle, most ridiculous boondoggle yet. Send Al Gore the bill. :D
Found a couple more,
ADK region of NY
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/034b_fallon_collection_adirondack_logging.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1581460802)
If I recall correctly this one is from Oregon
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/beams.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1581460802)
D
Man, those are some big stickers in the bottom photo. :D
That's not a picture we'll see again any time soon!
Thanks for posting that.
What? No tea and biscuits?
What a time it would of been in history to work in the woods or at one of those mills.
Just don't call it the good old days around my grandparents when they was alive. All they could remember was hard work and starting at a young age. :D
One day mother asked dad if he wanted to volunteer somewhere for something to do. Dad, not looking for anything to do, replied: "I volunteered all my life, I'm not going to now". :D
that is true, but look at the individuals they became, the greatest generation. compare that to kids today. I blame myself for the lack of struggle that my kids came up in. they are good kids, but have never worked a full all out day in their lives.
Well that generation and the one before made it less of a struggle following two world wars. For much of the developed world we have created a safety net for society. However, It's not a perfect system. I can't complain.
here is a vid of rescuing an old steam donkey and restoring it. was lifted out by my last employer. the guy on the stick musta been kinda new at long lining. he sat it down kinda hard.
Steam Donkey 928 Airlift - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRdZvoQ_Eco)
We have a forester member from that forest region. He's probably see it at the center. Quite a piece of old iron. They built stuff big to last a long time in them days. ;D
That is one impressive project!
I saw this rerun of a Modern Marvels episode yesterday and found it on YouTube, it seems to fit this post.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYeOXBRWDWE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYeOXBRWDWE)
Wow the video on recovering the Steam Donkey was pretty impressive! Thanks for sharing1
This photo ties well with the steam donkey story,
New skids
From the BC logging archives on line
D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/donkey_skids.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1582719590)
Good for travelling over snow, windfalls and over dirt. :D
Cool picture but looking at all the slash if someone screamed fire would you get out of the woods in time. Pretty hard on the timber in those days
Think what our landings would look like today if you did not have a skidder or dozer to push the slash up daily. Im sure the skash made things much easier to move when the donkey had to winch itself to the next location.
Quote from: dgdrls on January 13, 2018, 01:33:20 PM
Ottawa River log rafts with Parliament Hill in the background
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/Timber_raft_parliament_buildings_1882.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1515868305)
D
Chaudière Falls in a timber slide, Parliment Hill Ottawa in in the background, upriver from the photo with the log rafts.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/chaudiere_falls.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1607047965)
D
Bloedel, Stewart and Welch (BS&W) sawmill, Port Alberni Canada
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/Port_Alberni_mill.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1612028658)
1935, the Hayo Maru (Orient Steamship Co. Yokohama) loading up on lumber.
https://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/7/7/778313/0f76790a-9021-4a4d-b604-49cc358a980a-A63415.jpg
My quick Google search found the ship was later sunk during WWII
D
This is one of my favorite threads, time for some new additions
http://historichoodriver.com/index.php?x=browse&tag=flume&pagenum=1
"working" the flume :) Stanley Smith Lumbr Co. Oregon
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/flume.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1637504419)
America?s Last Log Flume | Amusing Planet (https://www.amusingplanet.com/2018/06/americas-last-log-flume.html)
Kings River Flume Sierra-Nevada
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/flume2.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1637504508)
D
Thanks for posting, Dan!
FYI:
There's a book out about life in some of the Adirondack logging camps!
My Grandfather (mothers side) was born in one of the logging camps I think it was in Santa Clara, NY! He grew up and made a living in the camps, in his later years, he was a singer and story teller!
OH, the book is titled "Adirondack Voices"!
Great photos thanks for sharing. Read a few books about the old logging camps those guys understood what work was all about. I've seen some of the places they used to float logs in upstate NH and Maine , just the dams they built to supply enough water for sluicing was a feat in itself. Let alone the actual logging.
Quote from: dgdrls on February 26, 2020, 07:20:38 AM
This photo ties well with the steam donkey story,
New skids
From the BC logging archives on line
D
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/20727/donkey_skids.jpeg?easyrotate_cache=1582719590)
I bet some considered this crude but look at the finished ends, there was pride.
There was a cord wood flume on the mountain here made from heavy sheet metal, in use in the '40's. They cut 4' hard wood and sent it to N.Y. for ship ballast the got sold somewhere.
Quote from: Ron Scott on December 23, 2002, 05:12:45 PM
Lumber Was King In Michigan
In 1837, 435 sawmills were active in Michigan, and by 1873, when lumbering activity in Wexford County (Cadillac, MI area) was just getting started, their existerd over 1600 sawmills in the state.
To date, almost 50 sawmills can be attributed to Wexford County.
Michigan ranked number one in lumber production in the late 1800's, with 1890 being the peak year, producing 4,250 billion board feet. By 1899, much of the pine had been harvested and Michigan slipped in ranks to number two. By 1911, Michigan had dropped to number 10. By the early 1930s the timbering was all but over.
Just plucking away at this old thread and am struck by these stats. Really illustrates just how fast man kind can deplete a resource when they really put their mind to it. A practice we should all do our part to retire by employing management strategies that leave some meat on the bone for the generations to come.
Mike, you and I are from the same territory really. My interest in sawmill machinery [in this area] led to some interest in forestry here. I couldn't understand the reason for the dogs on the old New England style sawmills. A story in Northern logger explained it. After the hill farms where abandoned, before the war between the states, the land grew back first i n field trees and that was the wood available as the virgin forests were gone before this time. They sawed box shooks from the pine round edge to the last 1" board and that explained the little underhooks. The hardwood [maple] was long skinny stuff and the old log beam carriage was good for this. Alot of this maple went for heel stock for shoes. Today all those hills are mature forest as no one farms hills anymore. There is more wood now than since the original cutting. Have you ever seen aerial photographs of our area from say 1928?
No i havent. Seen some aerial of springfield when s&w went in.. There were fields back then. Solar field is the only kind left there now.
Dont remember if i told the story of the guy with a few frick mills for sale. He said when the railroad came through they gave one to every farmer who wanted one and you paid it off in ties. You keep the sideboards. So thats how a lot of TN turned to pasture
Quote from: moodnacreek on November 22, 2021, 07:54:33 AM
There was a cord wood flume on the mountain here made from heavy sheet metal, in use in the '40's. They cut 4' hard wood and sent it to N.Y. for ship ballast the got sold somewhere.
Was the flume on Storm king Mtn?
I dug around a bit but haven't found anything yet
D
Quote from: dgdrls on November 23, 2021, 06:35:40 AM
Quote from: moodnacreek on November 22, 2021, 07:54:33 AM
There was a cord wood flume on the mountain here made from heavy sheet metal, in use in the '40's. They cut 4' hard wood and sent it to N.Y. for ship ballast the got sold somewhere.
Was the flume on Storm king Mtn?
I dug around a bit but haven't found anything yet
D
To the s.w. of Storm King is the Black Rock forest that was privately owned back then. You where very close. They also had a hyd. log spliter on a D2 Cat in the early '50's. It all ended, the 4 foot wood, about 1961. Others in this area sent 4' hardwood to N.Y. I guess it was a common thing at one time. Black rock also ran portable charcoal kilns in their woods, Doug.
Quote from: mike_belben on November 22, 2021, 08:20:00 PM
No i havent. Seen some aerial of springfield when s&w went in.. There were fields back then. Solar field is the only kind left there now.
Dont remember if i told the story of the guy with a few frick mills for sale. He said when the railroad came through they gave one to every farmer who wanted one and you paid it off in ties. You keep the sideboards. So thats how a lot of TN turned to pasture
Back in the day a lot of deals where done without money directly. Land was traded and sometimes given. Landowners gave pieces for the good of the neighborhood. Examples; the school, church, mill, fire house, R.R. spur to the mill and later the ambulance building. People where poor and the haves donated. Much of this has been forgotten.
Quote from: mike_belben on November 22, 2021, 08:20:00 PM
No i havent. Seen some aerial of springfield when s&w went in.. There were fields back then. Solar field is the only kind left there now.
Dont remember if i told the story of the guy with a few frick mills for sale. He said when the railroad came through they gave one to every farmer who wanted one and you paid it off in ties. You keep the sideboards. So thats how a lot of TN turned to pasture
That's kind of what happened when they built the lake here. The power company built it mainly for producing electricity, but they had 20,000 acres to clear. Vepco would co-sign the loan on a log truck for anyone that wanted one. You could keep what you got for the wood, but had to pay off the equipment as you went. That was in 1961-63. They started flooding the lake in October of 1963.
All the now big loggers around here got their start that way.