iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

small woodlot skidder

Started by joebillhill, January 27, 2021, 07:06:15 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

stavebuyer

Quote from: mike_belben on January 28, 2021, 09:27:08 PM
The longer the distance and the larger the trees the farther a mini ex gets from being ideal.  If its clearing scrub in a pretty central area and youve got lots of rocky soil and drainage to install.. Yeah the mini starts looking smarter.  Theres always a balance.  A trailer ball on the blade of a mini makes it a lot smarter IMO.  You dont want to drag 1 tree if you can wheel 5 and keep the hours off your undercarriage.

CTL is compact track loader.. ie bobcat on rubber track.  Big $.




I own a 79ish 450 case crawler loader backhoe because the way the drivetrain and steering is built... they dont tend to sieze up the clutches from long term sitting like you so frequently see on dry clutch machines.  1st gen deere 450 seem to always have one side stuck or no power or freewheel or brake or something..  If i ever found one that worked completely i might have bought one but in my money realm they were always broke.  Deere 350 is another popular small logging machine but same scenario above.. It cant sit 10 yrs.  The 350 and 450 C model deeres seem to be great but never in my price.


I have a d31P-18 komatsu dozer that has been mostly fantastic.  It is wet clutch.. Id avoid the earlier dry models.. -16 and earlier.  Not sure on -17.  The motor has been great, tons of power and theyre often parked "broken" and cheaper than cat or deere.. Usually over shift issues that amounts to simple wear in some linkages that you can fix with a drill and some bolts to oversize the slop out.  Parts are getting harder to find but i havent really had to find any so win win.  Id be happy with a komatsu D31 loader too. The inline 6 non turbo jap diesel with denso pump is quite good imo. Very good fuel system.  Not bad on fuel consumption either.



Ive run a big international td25 crawler loader.. Its a big roughing machine.  Cant see at all in front of you but whatever is there, its going over or getting destroyed. Those are about a 15ton machine i guess in the $10-15k range.. Old but a lot of knowledge still in circulation over at redpower forums.  DT engines and torque convertors.  For guys with big impact guns.  


Cat always made the top tier crawlers at the top price.  My only experience was helping a guy who sheared the coupler bolts and im glad i didnt have to go far into that. Never ran one but im sure they were good if you had the $ to have it.  


I wouldnt fool with fiat allis or massey crawlers, never had enough market share so theyre obscure today.. When theyre broke you part out.  Oliver and cletrac are cute parade tractors (sorry barge)

And id probably stay away from deere 1010, track frames bend.  International TD6/7/8 are respectable, those became dresser then dressta which is still good afaik.  the old IH td340 i would skip unless it was ready to work for cheap.  Everyone seems to buy a td340 project when they first get started and it never goes back together.  Same for case 310.  Theyre all just getting too old and have had too many monkeys buy, abuse, jury rig and sell them down the line.  The next level up is usually a slightly serious investment and a bit more likely to be taken care of by a business minded person in general.  Ive looked at too many play dozers on trailer trash front lawns to want one.


Bottoms are very expensive.  Guys say $1/squeek.  Dont buy one with hanging tracks, pointy teeth, track frames worn to paper at the idler slides, rollers flatspotted and pin bushings busted through.  That wont buff out and if it dont steer run away.  Crawlers are out of vogue so you have the power there.. Few buyers, lots of them wanting a new home.


Unfortunately all good equipment prices are rising fast.  Theres still some sanity at the auctions but may not last long, and auctions bring substantial fees plus risk.


Plan on $4 a mile to deliver, maybe worse.

And never buy a gas powered bobcat! Never ever.
Having owned quite a few of the above dozers/loaders (all of which turned into things I probably would have done better never owing) there is a gold mine of sage advice in that post!!

PoginyHill

I used a Case 310 (circa 1967) and a homemade arch for both road making and skidding. Worked well. I upgraded to a 4WD tractor and 3-point logging winch. Still have both, though. I have the arch for sale on this forum. Use the dozer to spread gravel. Case 310's are not easy to come by, but I've found parts rather easy to find, some 350's will fit (both drive sprockets are new and for a 350). I thought I'd part with the 310 after getting my tractor, but finding it too useful to part ways with.




 
Kubota M7060 & B2401, Metavic log trailer, Cat E70B, Cat D5C, 750 Grizzly ATV, Wallenstein FX110, 84" Landpride rotary hog, Classic Edge 750, Stihl 170, 261, 462

mike_belben

one thing i would like to edit into my long winded post.  no matter what you're looking at for purchase,  the seller is NOT YOUR ADVISOR.  He is perhaps even more so, an adversary in disguise




it is human nature to want to do business with people you get a sense of liking, comfort and trust for.  it is also human nature for slime bags to develop those qualities to lighten your wallet.  used car salesman DNA isn't limited to car lots.  so when you're buying your first something or other that you don't know much about.. bring someone who does and confide in them, not the seller. if they can't come look at it, you go, take pics and keep your mouth shut.  be quick and know in advance what you're sposta take pics of, measure, wiggle, where the fluid sticks are etc.  play your cards close to your chest or else the seller will be talking you into all sorts of easy fixes and just needs the carb cleaned when the head is cracked and the parts for the reverser are sunken into a lawn 400 miles away, not actually in the box of stuff it comes with.  it is always raining on easy fix day, the cheap missing part is NLA, and the bolts to get at the NLA part always round off or snap so just don't go there.  dozer seized is a new brand of seized most normal folks don't know about. there harbor freight seized and theres snap-on seized.  they have a big difference in price. 


remember, nothing works unless it worked while you were in the seat.  all promises are gambles. if you wanna gamble go to vegas.  only drag home known good machines.  otherwise hire it out.
Praise The Lord

woodmaker

What Mike said.  I have most of them: excavators from 7 tons to 25 tons, dozers from 9 tons to 20 tons , and small toy tractors also, but the one machine that stays at the house is a jd 350 crawler loader with a 4 in one bucket, because it will move dirt or logs from place to place, reach up to push trees over after digging around them ( easier on the machine than digging out just the stump), dig a cellar hole ,etc
 If i had to have just one machine , it would be a slightly larger track loader ( jd 550, international 125 or 175, 953 cat etc.) with a 4 in 1 bucket and a backhoe attachment .   just my thoughts
franklin q80,builtrite 40,husky 372,sachs dolmar 123, dozers,excavators,loaders,tri-axle dump trucks ,autocar tractor with dump,flatbed and detachable trailers, and 8  f350 diesels

mike_belben

Thats what i decided was my swiss army homestead machine also.. I just havent been able to move it down yet which has caused much grief.




Praise The Lord

Bruno of NH

I would like one with a set of forks. 
Move logs and lumber.
And use to clear off  more of my land for expansion  of the mill.
I never see any with fork setups.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

stavebuyer

Quote from: Bruno of NH on January 31, 2021, 02:21:05 PM
I would like one with a set of forks.
Move logs and lumber.
And use to clear off  more of my land for expansion  of the mill.
I never see any with fork setups.
They made factory forks for them but usually see that combo with a winch instead of backhoe. I had bucket and forks for both the Case track loaders I owned back in the day; but they were pin on and a PITA to swap. JD offered both as well.

mike_belben

If i live long enough i will build a good clamshell skeleton rake for it to root rake and load stumps and logs.  The backhoe comes off in about 10 minutes or so, maybe 20 to put on.  I havent put the 5ton winch on the komatsu dozer down here yet because i want to get some seat time in the woods on this one first before doing the work.    Case is the only crawler with full power to both tracks in turns. Well.. Atleast prior to the adoption of hydrostatic on newer machines ill never have. 



  It should have more traction in the woods -on paper.  with a conventional dozer you cant turn if the turning track has no traction, which does happen on sidehills in wet clay.   But then my Case has narrow pads where the komatsu has big floats on it.  The Case would need lugs welded on for traction but will it sink anyway? Idk.  Its a 4cyl vs the komatsu 6 so will it have the power?  


Im not sure yet.  Whichever is better after enough test and tune will get a real bogey axle forestry trailer built with a real bypass grapple loader to go behind it and thatll be my primary logging machine until i build the 8x8.  Lord willin of course.  Both machines had new bottoms done by the PO which is largely why i bought them. 
Praise The Lord

Iwawoodwork

I want to support what Mike B said earlier about the excavator vrs the crawler loader and distance. I have an old HD4 loader(4in1)crawler plus excavators , a Hitachi ex50, Komatsu pc60 and sumitomo1600, plus a D3 dozer, D7e dozer and a fiat Allis 545 wheel loader. They all have their plus and minus. For a machine to do it all there are compromises with all and the type of machine that Mike B pictured, 450  case crawler loader probably comes the closest to being the all season do all.

mike_belben

Unfortunately it dont do nothin for me sittin at my brothers!  But hey.. Its doubled in value since i bought it.  Not a bad investment imo even if i sell it where it sits. Paid $7500 
Praise The Lord

Walnut Beast

Finally a little talk about a track loader. Very handy a friend has a CAT 963. It's a good unit. Just a few electrical issues. A lot of guys use them to dig basements out for new houses

mike_belben

I think theres about 4 wires in that thing. 
Praise The Lord

joebillhill

Wooo boy, so much information!  This is a lot of good stuff to draw off of so thanks again guys.  I'm guessing it will come down to what is available used close to the area. Also there is the possibility that we would just contract some of the work out as well since we wouldn't need all that lumber.  Though maybe we could process it and help fund the portable sawmill?
Would you suggest tracks or wheels for the property?  like I said it's 15-40% slope with sandy loamy topsoil.  

mike_belben

Quote from: joebillhill on February 09, 2021, 02:19:16 PM
Would you suggest tracks or wheels for the property?  like I said it's 15-40% slope with sandy loamy topsoil.  
you suggested some excavation needs in addition to logging in the first post.  wheeled machines are either articulated or skid steering.  in articulated wheel application its a skidder or a wheel loader.  neither machine will do both jobs very well at all.  a skid steer can dig and log but ... sigh... its a long story.  skid steers are great and terrible it just all depends.  an endless discussion there.  

   on tracks, you've got dozers, crawler loaders and excavators.  they can both log, AND excavate. the exact details of your site, other available support equipment and where the logs are destined is a major factor.  for instance a dozer and crawler loader can both get logs to a landing to mill up.  but if they need to get loaded on a truck you better have a crawler loader or another machine or a friend with something to load because a dozer isn't loading a 13ft high bunk trailer. so weigh that out.  


   logging with an excavator.. aka shovel logging.. very popular on the west coast but thats a excavator with a grapple that won't dig a basement.  can you do it with a bucket and a thumb?  sure but the logs will be swinging way out perpendicular to the boom plane as you swing.  are you going to clear an interstate sized path to swing tree length?  thats up to you.  i wouldn't want to walk longs any distance with an ex, like how a skidder or dozer does.  if a really good deal came up on an excavator and i had a lot of digging i would find a way to have the ex walk a trailer with me. maybe a 5th wheel convertor dolley and a cheap old rotten deck tag trailer with junk bunks welded on?  i wouldn't walk an ex back and forth as a skidder. id even consider putting a pintle plate on the back of the bucket and dragging a big loaded arch around before regular skidding. or just make a truck road with it first.
Praise The Lord

Skeans1

Quote from: mike_belben on February 09, 2021, 03:57:07 PM
Quote from: joebillhill on February 09, 2021, 02:19:16 PM
Would you suggest tracks or wheels for the property?  like I said it's 15-40% slope with sandy loamy topsoil.  
you suggested some excavation needs in addition to logging in the first post.  wheeled machines are either articulated or skid steering.  in articulated wheel application its a skidder or a wheel loader.  neither machine will do both jobs very well at all.  a skid steer can dig and log but ... sigh... its a long story.  skid steers are great and terrible it just all depends.  an endless discussion there.  

  on tracks, you've got dozers, crawler loaders and excavators.  they can both log, AND excavate. the exact details of your site, other available support equipment and where the logs are destined is a major factor.  for instance a dozer and crawler loader can both get logs to a landing to mill up.  but if they need to get loaded on a truck you better have a crawler loader or another machine or a friend with something to load because a dozer isn't loading a 13ft high bunk trailer. so weigh that out.  


  logging with an excavator.. aka shovel logging.. very popular on the west coast but thats a excavator with a grapple that won't dig a basement.  can you do it with a bucket and a thumb?  sure but the logs will be swinging way out perpendicular to the boom plane as you swing.  are you going to clear an interstate sized path to swing tree length?  thats up to you.  i wouldn't want to walk longs any distance with an ex, like how a skidder or dozer does.  if a really good deal came up on an excavator and i had a lot of digging i would find a way to have the ex walk a trailer with me. maybe a 5th wheel convertor dolley and a cheap old rotten deck tag trailer with junk bunks welded on?  i wouldn't walk an ex back and forth as a skidder. id even consider putting a pintle plate on the back of the bucket and dragging a big loaded arch around before regular skidding. or just make a truck road with it first.
Mike when we shovel log out here we start at the back and shovel everything out or forward. There's a grapple called a power clam that will both dig and can rotate logs.

Parkranger

I started out on land that sounds like yours years ago.  If I did it now I would hire the land grading and stump digging out to an outfit with a dozer and a 30,000lbs excavator and have the stumps burnt at the same time.   Then put your $ into a pole building to store stuff while you build a house.  You can rent an 8,000 lb excavator to do a lot of cleanup. 
I cleared with a skidder and dozer, had lots of dirt in my stump fires.  

PoginyHill

Quote from: joebillhill on February 09, 2021, 02:19:16 PMWould you suggest tracks or wheels for the property?
For my property with uneven ground and lots of rocks, my tractor is much more friendly getting around than my dozer. Logging with my dozer was limited to a decent snow cover. Rocks are not easy with a tracked machine. I've thrown many-a-track playing around rocks. No fun putting that back on when up against a tree.
Kubota M7060 & B2401, Metavic log trailer, Cat E70B, Cat D5C, 750 Grizzly ATV, Wallenstein FX110, 84" Landpride rotary hog, Classic Edge 750, Stihl 170, 261, 462

mike_belben

that is true. rocks are hell on a track, especially the wider flotation pads.  they bend and bind on their neighbor or snap off from the point loads of taking a rock on the side instead of centered under the rail.  and your fillings will take a beating too. 
Praise The Lord

Thank You Sponsors!