LOOK , you think you had a long day!!!

Ironwood · January 07, 2007, 07:10:06 PM

I just saw this in a Metalworking textbook from 1947, I sure am glad "THEY DON'T MAKE THEM LIKE THEY USED TO". I remembered this as I veiwed Dangerous Dan's new photo on his profile. The two man saw he is using sure would be tiring, poor helper on the other end.

OK, so there IS a chainsaw in his hand, in the smaller version it is not visible.

Don_Papenburg · January 07, 2007, 07:20:19 PM

He either could not find good help or no one would work with him.

Furby · January 07, 2007, 07:32:33 PM

Wonder why ???

Ironwood · January 07, 2007, 07:36:24 PM

Trust me he would have a helper on the other end and she would be blonde and smiling. ;D Reid

Furby · January 07, 2007, 07:39:43 PM

Well that I could go for! ;D

TexasTimbers · January 07, 2007, 07:46:23 PM

Maybe he was glad to have that high quality handsaw and not a lightweight cheapo tool.
You can tell it is a high quality tool in his hand but what the photo can't portray is the quality and sharpness of the blade.
Hard to tell in the photo, but his shirt seems still loose (not sweat clinging yet) and the blade is already buried.
Still it can't be easy to cut a RR rail with a hacksaw no matter how sturdy the saw and sharp the blade.
By 1947 were there portable bandsaws? Probably but not too many and certainly generators were not abundant even to the RR. ???

Daren · January 07, 2007, 09:13:01 PM

Either one looks like a long day... but at least Dan gotta see something pretty for all his labor. I have an old piece of RR track for a small anvil, just thinking about hacksawing through it makes me arm weary. I'm with Kevin, I'm sure they had a better way, that picture profounds me. It would be like a photograph of men sawing RR ties in a pit saw from the same era, doesn't add up. If it was a young man in the picture, I'd say some kinda apprenticeship training . But that fellow looks older than an apprentice. Unless he was slow and he was still on his first piece of track his whole career, day one - till retirement. :D

beenthere · January 07, 2007, 11:00:42 PM

I suspect out on the road (track line) back then, if cutting the rail was necessary, spending 15 minutes with a hand hacksaw was quicker than ordering one from the roundhouse and maybe getting it the next day. Also, quicker than hand-operating that track buggy all the way back to town to get the blacksmith to do it.

Gotta appreciate the electric hand tools we have today, compared to what was available 60 yr ago. Labor was just that, labor. I suspect all the rock was shoveled by hand, and tamped by hand, and tracks were repaired by hand - including carrying the railroad ties and the rail with a gang of men.

I'm not about to hacksaw through my rail to prove it could be done in 15 minutes either. Cuz it might take 20 ;D

Digging engines and trains out of snow banks was done by hand too, with long, long handled snow shovels. I suspect to this day there isn't an easier way if the train is snowed in from a slide or caught in a heavy snow storm.

sawguy21 · January 08, 2007, 10:04:36 AM

We recently had another derailment when the locomotive hit a rock slide and slid down the canyon wall. Fortunately nobody seriously hurt. I would be interested to know how they recover something like that.

twobears · January 08, 2007, 11:22:40 AM

if you look in the background of that pic you,ll see how that rail got carried there.it makes my back sore just looking at it..

delbert

DWM II · January 08, 2007, 03:45:44 PM

Aint never hacksawed any rr iron, but it sure did remind me of my machinist apprentice school. Hacksaw and files were the only cutting tools allowed for the first three weeks. Its kinda amazing how accurate you can become after a little practice.

JimBuis · January 08, 2007, 04:35:39 PM

Quote from: beenthere on January 07, 2007, 11:00:42 PM
I suspect out on the road (track line) back then, if cutting the rail was necessary, spending 15 minutes with a hand hacksaw was quicker than ordering one from the roundhouse and maybe getting it the next day. Also, quicker than hand-operating that track buggy all the way back to town to get the blacksmith to do it.

Gotta appreciate the electric hand tools we have today, compared to what was available 60 yr ago. Labor was just that, labor. I suspect all the rock was shoveled by hand, and tamped by hand, and tracks were repaired by hand - including carrying the railroad ties and the rail with a gang of men.

Beenthere,
In 1980, I worked for a railroad in Alton, IL and we did almost everything by hand. Admittedly we cut rails with either a torch or a small engine driven circular saw. However, we carried rails and ties by hand with a gang of men, shovelled and tamped many dump truck loads of gravel with shovels. No hydraulics, no electricity, no nuthin'. ~~Heck~~Dang! We even cleaned up the mess from train derailments by hand once the cranes moved the locomotive and cars out of the way.

I asked the foreman why they didn't bring in equipment to clean up a derailment. He explained that the equipment was five miles away and it would take several men several hours to load up the equipment and haul it back. In the meanwhile, a couple of gangs of men, about 30 men total, could have the mess cleaned up, new ties and track layed and nailed down, and a train running across it by lunch time!!

It didn't make much sense, but he was right. It is amazing how much rock 30 strong young men can move in a short time period. Some of the old foremen even taught us how one man can move a railroad tie by himself using nothing more than a shovel or two. Let us just say the method was considered unsafe. They showed us how to do it anyway.

Jim

Dan_Shade · January 08, 2007, 05:48:20 PM

so how do you use a shovel to move a railroad tie?

There was a Dirty Jobs segment on replacing a cross tie, it was pretty cool, but I was glad it wasn't me!

TexasTimbers · January 08, 2007, 06:09:42 PM

Why do you NEED a shovel to move a railroad tie? I move them by hand and bad back all the time. Must be that they simply are much heavier when delivered to the RR company. Maybe they are actually still green ???
What did they weigh when y'all got them Jim?

JimBuis · January 08, 2007, 07:03:39 PM

"so how do you use a shovel to move a railroad tie?" Using a square point shovel with a "T" handle, you "stick" the tip of the shovel into the top of a tie near the end about two inches. Did you ever try to stick a shovel into an oak tie? It is not for the faint of heart and is the reason it was prohibited as an unsafe work practice. You have to swing the shovel down at the tie with all the force you can muster as if you are trying to split the tie in two. If done "correctly", it will stick. If done "incorrectly", the shovel will bounce off in an unpredictable manner and with enough force to maim or kill someone. Once the shovel is "stuck", one person can grab the "T" handle and drag the tie around to put it into position.

Quote from: kevjay on January 08, 2007, 06:09:42 PM
Why do you NEED a shovel to move a railroad tie? I move them by hand and bad back all the time. Must be that they simply are much heavier when delivered to the RR company. Maybe they are actually still green ???
What did they weigh when y'all got them Jim?

No one in his right mind is going to pick up a "fresh" finished railroad tie with his barehands. They are delivered to the railroad dripping and oozing with creosote. When creosote gets rubbed into the pores of the skin, it will very quickly burn the skin in a most painful way.

How much do they weigh? I never weighed one, but I'd guestimate about 300 pounds. They weigh enough that standard procedure is for two good men to pick up one end with a pair of tie tongs and drag it into place.

I don't know if they still treat them with creosote or not, but in those days the creosote added tremendously to the weight of the wood.

A creosote treatment plant is something to see. The ties are put down into a vat of boiling creosote. Talk about a nasty smelling place....boy that is it.

Jim

Don_Papenburg · January 08, 2007, 08:24:15 PM

Industial arts teacher worked the RR before he got to teaching . He told us that they had a guy that run the wheel barrow ,heaping full of gravel uphill to the top of the roadbed ,all day long . That he liked to drink distilled liquids ,sometimes to acsess. Anyway the boss fired him one day right in the middle of the day , when there was a lot of gravel to move uphill. He said that it took two of them to move that wheel barrow up the hill loaded a lot less than their fired buddy would have had it filled.

Ironwood · January 09, 2007, 07:29:18 AM

RxR ties are still soaked in Creasote (one of the only still legal things to do with it). Yep sure does burn the skin, Dad used to have us kids brush it on the tie he used for landscaping around our house (think he "got it down at the mill" he worked at). I won't get started with my "got it down at the mill" soap box, let's just say as we all know there are lots of shut down mills in this country!. Reid