The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems

Chainsawr, The Worlds Largest Inventory of Chainsaw Parts

Smith Sawmill Service



Author Topic: DSI  (Read 7394 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline g_man

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1013
  • Age: 74
  • Location: NEK VT
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2018, 03:41:03 PM »
You are doing a lot of good stuff there Mike. Everything seems really well thought out. One of our goals is being wildlife friendly too. Trying to nurse red oak saplings and poles along after the previous owner made a liquidation cut is a big thing. The other day while I was working in the area I released an old wild apple tree that sits in the middle of the woods. I believe in brush piles too. Rabbits, squirrels, turkeys, grouse, and some song birds like the winter wren, hermit thrush, oven bird, and white throated sparrow love them. But this is small stuff compared to what you are doing. 





gg

Offline John Mc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5564
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Monkton, Vermont
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2018, 03:48:44 PM »
G_man, you need to check out Vermont Coverts: Woodlands for Wildlife.  They have one of their 3 day training workshops coming up in May (Free food and lodging while you are there). It focuses on teaching landowners about managing for wildlife and a healthy forest, and integrating those goals with others such as timber value, recreation, etc. The May workshop is in Starksboro, just a few miles from my house.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8235
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2018, 07:17:28 PM »
Beautiful work!  That brush lodge is pretty sweet.  Would love to see summer pics around that apple clearing.  Deer are gonna love that. 
Revelation 3:20

Offline g_man

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1013
  • Age: 74
  • Location: NEK VT
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2018, 06:52:11 AM »
G_man, you need to check out Vermont Coverts: Woodlands for Wildlife.  They have one of their 3 day training workshops coming up in May (Free food and lodging while you are there). It focuses on teaching landowners about managing for wildlife and a healthy forest, and integrating those goals with others such as timber value, recreation, etc. The May workshop is in Starksboro, just a few miles from my house.


That is a good message to get out there to any one in or near VT interested in good land stewardship practices, the things John mentioned, and much more like invasives recognition and control. I was a member of the Spring 2008 class John, and have continued to learn more thru workshops and group visits to other land owners woodland to see what they do. Vermont Coverts: Woodlands for Wildlife is a great group.

gg

Offline thecfarm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 31131
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Chesterville,Maine
  • Gender: Male
  • If I don't do it,it don't get done
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2018, 06:56:20 AM »
Might even be state money with what you are doing. You would have to open your land to the public,like walking trails. Seem like there was a memeber here or I spoke to someone about this. What stuck with me,The state is paying me to do what I was going to do anyways. ;D 
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline John Mc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5564
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Monkton, Vermont
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2018, 08:07:01 AM »
Might even be state money with what you are doing. You would have to open your land to the public,like walking trails. Seem like there was a memeber here or I spoke to someone about this. What stuck with me,The state is paying me to do what I was going to do anyways. ;D
There is Federal money available through NRCS via the EQIP program for wildlife habitat management work. Here in VT, the NRCS office in the area will send out an expert to walk your land with you. They will provide you with a written recommendation of things you can do. It's then your decision whether to sign a contract and do the practices they recommend (either yourself or hire it done) and get reimbursed for some of the costs - or you can say "no thanks" and skip the contract. Even if you don't sign the contract and get the cost-sharing funds, you still end up with a great list of recommendations of things that are suited for your property.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8235
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2018, 08:36:20 AM »
Equip appeared to be the better paying of the two programs i investigated to help sell a tsi job.  I know for sure USDA had one.
Revelation 3:20

Offline John Mc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5564
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Monkton, Vermont
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2018, 09:25:17 AM »
Equip appeared to be the better paying of the two programs i investigated to help sell a tsi job.  I know for sure USDA had one.
EQIP is wildlife focused, so is a good fit on the work you are describing, Mike. You can often get other TSI-related things included in it if they have some wildlife purpose (crop tree release, especially for mast trees which provide food for wildlife), patch cuts for early successional/regeneration purposes, etc. They also seem to be very interested in erosion control these days, so things like installing waterbars or broad-based dips, and possibly bridges and culverts may be eligible.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline John Mc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5564
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Monkton, Vermont
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2018, 11:27:37 AM »
G_man, you need to check out Vermont Coverts: Woodlands for Wildlife. ...

That is a good message to get out there to any one in or near VT interested in good land stewardship practices, the things John mentioned, and much more like invasives recognition and control. I was a member of the Spring 2008 class John, and have continued to learn more thru workshops and group visits to other land owners woodland to see what they do. Vermont Coverts: Woodlands for Wildlife is a great group.

gg
G_man - I suspect we have had this conversation before. I went through the training in 2002. I eventually served on their board and spent a couple years as president (2009-10). I recently rejoined the board after several years off.

There are similar programs in other states: I know NH has one, as does CT. I think MA has one. NY has the Master Forest Owners Program (Even if you don't go through the NY program, you can sign up to have one of the folks who have gone through it come walk your land with you to share experiences and swap ideas). Most of these programs are built around the idea of peer-to-peer networking: that is, landowners helping each other by sharing information and techniques. Most of the programs are run through their state's forestry extension programs. Vermont's is unique in that it spun off and has been an independent non-profit for the last couple of decades.

For anyone who is interested, the Resources & Links page on the VT Coverts site has links to programs in other states (mostly New England). That links page is currently missing the New York Master Forest Owner's program, but you can find that with a simple google search.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8235
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2018, 12:48:06 AM »
Found a doe today.  what the coyotes left of her, unfortunately. Thats the third full grown deer ive found, nevermind the ones i havent.  Really need to trim them dogs back pretty soon.  


So i kinda profiled the characteristics ive found with hickory, black gum and red maple earlier.  Ill get back to that series with poplar.  One strength is it grows really fast and straight without being bushy.  Its like the pine of a hardwood forest, you can fit many stems in a small space. A poplar sappling stand reminds me of a bamboo forest.  Theyre as thirsty as maple and love being neer creeks.   They sprout a lot of vertical branches when hinge cut or pinned down and have big broad leaves that are exceptional at providing visual cover.  If i need a green wall somewhere, like to block deer's line of sight for me to get to a stand, a snapped off or twisty poplar is my first choice to hinge cut.   

I dont think they provide much in the way of deer food, but i will have to monitor that this summer to be sure.  Perhaps theyll eat the leaves.  Definitely no signs of interest in bud tips.  I imagine poplar is pretty important for birds and bees but dont hold me to it.

This is one year old growth.



Funny thing about coppiced poplar, its kinda kinked and twisty.  Natural seedlings come up much straighter in single stems most of the time.  Below is a pair of antennas that sprouting off a culled sappling stump.  Note the kinks






Bottom one that has already coppiced i hinged a year ago, top one last week to open up better shooting lane.  You can see the railing and steps on that gum tree in background.




That tangle in back ground is a bedding area.  One of many now.




Revelation 3:20

Offline bobby s

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 83
  • Location: Central N.H.
  • Gender: Male
  • Formerly Hockeyguy
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2018, 07:30:20 AM »
Great job Mike. Thanks for sharing. Im doing similar work on my wood lot and finding your posts very informative. Looking forward to more!
Bob

Offline John Mc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5564
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Monkton, Vermont
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2018, 08:02:11 AM »
I dont think they [poplar] provide much in the way of deer food, but i will have to monitor that this summer to be sure. Perhaps theyll eat the leaves. Definitely no signs of interest in bud tips. I imagine poplar is pretty important for birds and bees but dont hold me to it.


Around here. they will browse on poplar saplings in the winter. It's not really their preferred food, but they'll eat it if there isn't better stuff around. A lot of Vermont is even-aged forest, more on the mature side (came about when the sheep farms were all abandoned many years ago, so a lot of land reverted to forest around the same time). So when winter rolls around, that patch cut that someone made that is full of early poplar regeneration can be popular with the deer. It can also be a matter of convenience or energy conservation for them: it's hard work moving through deep snow, so sometimes what's easiest to reach is what they eat first.

It sounds as though the work you are doing is providing enough of their preferred foods that they are leaving the poplar alone.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8235
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2018, 08:34:15 AM »
Thanks bobby

Yeah, definitely a matter of food options john.  As browse sources run out they will eat coarser and courser foods with less nutrient and poorer digestibility.  Like a horse, theyll "starve" with a stomach full of bark and twig.


My place now has way more food than deer.. Infact that doe was the lone survivor ive seen recently.  There was a big fiesty buck over winter but he may have been poached.  This region used to have trophies clanging antlers right here in my yard, but theyre gone now. The drug epidemic made a lot of new hungry people and their culture is to take all that theyre able, whenever they are able.  
Revelation 3:20

Offline thecfarm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 31131
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Chesterville,Maine
  • Gender: Male
  • If I don't do it,it don't get done
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2018, 12:20:33 PM »
mike,I was out in the woods today and I cut down a crooked cedar for the deer. The deer will find it and enjoy the greens. It will look like fishbones tomorrow. ;D
I did have to hook onto to it to pull it down. I backed up with it, to break off some branches. Get a group of deer together and they drive off the smaller ones. As I stand there and watch them do it, I tell them, no wonder he's small, you drive him away from the food. ;D
I saw 9 deer when I was driving down into the woods.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8235
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2018, 02:16:42 PM »
5 poachers and 3 yote packs will fix that for ya :)
Revelation 3:20

Offline thecfarm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 31131
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Chesterville,Maine
  • Gender: Male
  • If I don't do it,it don't get done
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2018, 02:36:28 PM »
Not much problems with poaches. There was something a few years back. Someone had a night scope. Shoot and leave them. The hunters was mad and I mean mad. First off shooting deer out of season,second thing,just leaving them. Seem like they got caught.
Them coyotes are a problem. Sometimes I hear them down by the pond and sometimes behind the house.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline Skeans1

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1760
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2018, 02:42:56 PM »
I don't understand this at all why take a property that has potential to be productive, a good thinning you should have material coming up for the critters. Different side of the country but out here a year after we thin you can't even tell we've been in the area other then a small landing with light between the trees. We were in this patch a year earlier 

Online mike_belben

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 8235
  • Location: Middle TN
  • Pulp Friction
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2018, 03:15:16 PM »
I dont mean for this to sound offensive but theres not a much better way for me to say it.  You may not be familiar with the effect of continual highgrading on a eastern hardwood stand.  When you remove every sawlog, every time and dont remove the twizzlers and snapped off storm trees, eventually you run out of sawlogs and only have firewood.  The mill collects the sawlogs while the stand collects the rejects.  Eventually, the rejects achieve dominance.  If they are healthy and never harvested or culled, it could be 200 years before a replacement.  However it is very likely there will be a twisty turd in the mid story ready to get ontop. So the species mix changes dramatically too.  

That said, i am only an amatuer and i hope everyone takes me with a grain of salt.  Im only one rung above guessing.  

Let me ask you a question.  If you are in a fir stand and cut out say 3 prime firs, what will resprout in its place?

(Nice aim btw!)
Revelation 3:20

Offline Pclem

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 172
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Fall Creek, Wisconsin
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2018, 05:41:44 PM »
mike,I was out in the woods today and I cut down a crooked cedar for the deer. The deer will find it and enjoy the greens. It will look like fishbones tomorrow. ;D
I did have to hook onto to pull it down. I backed up with it,to break off some branches. Get a group of deer together and they drive off the smaller ones. As I stand they and watch them do it,I tell them,no wonder he's small,you drive him away from the food. ;D
I saw 9 deer when I ws driving down into the woods.

When I was a teenager, two weeks prior to deer season, I built a beautiful ground blind on the edge of a cedar/balsam swamp with fresh cut boughs. Man, it looked nice. I sat in the middle seeing in my mind ol mossyhorns comin through. Come opening morning, I had no cover :D
Dyna SC16. powersplit. supersplitter. firewood kilns.bobcat T190. ford 4000 with forwarding trailer. a bunch of saws, and a question on my sanity for walking away from a steady paycheck

Offline Skeans1

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1760
    • Share Post
Re: DSI
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2018, 05:57:16 PM »
I dont mean for this to sound offensive but theres not a much better way for me to say it.  You may not be familiar with the effect of continual highgrading on a eastern hardwood stand.  When you remove every sawlog, every time and dont remove the twizzlers and snapped off storm trees, eventually you run out of sawlogs and only have firewood.  The mill collects the sawlogs while the stand collects the rejects.  Eventually, the rejects achieve dominance.  If they are healthy and never harvested or culled, it could be 200 years before a replacement.  However it is very likely there will be a twisty turd in the mid story ready to get ontop. So the species mix changes dramatically too.  

That said, i am only an amatuer and i hope everyone takes me with a grain of salt.  Im only one rung above guessing.  

Let me ask you a question.  If you are in a fir stand and cut out say 3 prime firs, what will resprout in its place?

(Nice aim btw!)
Mike we don't high grade when we thin the only nice trees that come out will be a row tree or if you have something crowded. If I have three good firs with nothing behind them I'll leave them say there's another one behind them that shaded out I'll take one to release a tree you try for two sides open in a personal stand. That's slipping one off the stump for an idea.


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter
 


Powered by EzPortal