I just found these two pretty recent post on the internet for a $7958 ($8400 Canadian dollars) firewood processor. This processor is not a heavy duty, high volume unit. But for $7958 US dollars (plus the cost of the 4-way wedge and hydraulic log lift which are accessories), this is the cheapest processor I've found. It eliminates all of the lifting and bucking, and lifting, and lifting again, which is what I do now. This thing doesn't cost much more than a full blown splitter with all the goodies, and they only do the splitting, whereas this unit loads the logs, bucks the logs, and splits the rounds, without any lifting. It will do up to 16 inch diameter wood. I don't think I've ever received logs that big when I order a full trailer of 8 foot logs. I burn 5 full cords a year, and like to keep a three year supply on hand. I don't sell firewood, but if I got a unit like this, I'd probably sell a few cords each year just to make the unit pay for itself.
Check out these web sites:
http://edmundston.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tools-equipment-Firewood-Processor-Winter-Special-Now-On-W0QQAdIdZ173304759#
and this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUt_ogGY7IY
I emailed them only to discovery that they do not sell to the US market, yet. Their email back to me indicated that they hope to sell to the US market in the near future. They are in the process of working through USA legal and liability issues.
So what do you guys think of this unit? Pros, cons, positives, and negatives.
Now if Santa could just get this puppy down my chimeny ~~~~
Thanks for your input guys, and Merry Christmas to you and yours <><
Don
Sorry, you're in the wrong place. Goodbye spammer. :o >:(
You're gonna need a Big Wood Shed. :D
This gentleman in not a spammer. He is looking for insight on a product that he found.
Looks pretty weak to me..a 9-10 foot 16" red oak log weighs in between at 800-900 lbs...I don't think that dinky little loader is stout enough..the pictures do not give enough detail to form an opinion on the meat of the machine, and there is not description of the cutoff mechanism..which is the big choke point in production....i'd love to have a little processor, but like any other tool...cheap is not a recommendation.
Quote from: Jeff on December 21, 2009, 10:20:21 PM
This gentleman in not a spammer. He is looking for insight on a product that he found.
Thanks Jeff. Now come on guys. Give me your honest opinions on this firewood processor. I was gonna try to build one, but at their price, I don't think it would be worth my time and effort, unless you see something I don't.
I don't need a super fast, heavy duty commercial unit. I just wanted something that processes firewood a lot more efficiently than I do now. Now I have go out and find the trees to cut. I get a permit from the US forest service to take "standing dead or down trees" from the Nicolet forest. Then I have to cut the trees. Then I have to buck the trees. Then I have to lift the rounds in to my trailer. Then I have to unload my trailer. Then I have to lift the rounds on to my little Ryobi electric splitter. All this is a lot of work (as you all well know). Once, I ordered a full trailer of 8 foot logs (was about 12 full cords). That saved me a lot of work. But I still had to buck those logs, and that took me a few weeks. Then I had to do all the split'n. I was gonna get a faster splitter. Checked them all out on the internet. I liked and could afford a few of the really nice ones. Then I found this processor, and fell in LUV ! And that's why I need and value your opinions, cause LUV is blind! Again, I'm only looking to do 20 to 30 cords a year with it. I'll be 64 tomorrow (12/22), and while I enjoy making firewood, it's taking me longer and longer to do it. So I'm looking to the future.
Hi Mooseherder. I keep my firewood pretty well protected in a 30 X 40 pole barn. I have 10 full cords stored there now and 5 full cords spread around my house, which has an 8 foot overhang, for use this winter. I could easily store 16 more full cords in my pole barn and still have room for my other toys. If I got this unit, I would try to sell maybe 20 to 30 full cords a year, until it's paid for.
Don, Welcome to the Forestry Forum.
For a machine to speed up home firewood production, it looks interesting.
The main thing I see missing from looking at the bigger commercial units is a hold down for when the saw comes down.
On the last piece you would need to be careful having you hand that close to the chainsaw portion.
Without seeing it up close it is hard to tell how well it is built, weld quality and components.
Quote from: Reddog on December 21, 2009, 11:08:48 PM
Don, Welcome to the Forestry Forum.
For a machine to speed up home firewood production, it looks interesting.
The main thing I see missing from looking at the bigger commercial units is a hold down for when the saw comes down.
On the last piece you would need to be careful having you hand that close to the chainsaw portion.
Without seeing it up close it is hard to tell how well it is built, weld quality and components.
Hi Reddog; I have a hunch that this is what they were referring to when they emailed me back and said they were working through legal and liability issues so they could market in the US. I just hope that any changes they need to make don't significantly increase the price.
Zopi has a good point. Cheap is good, as long as it's not junk. If I did settle on this unit, I would drive to their plant (798 miles from me) to get a live demo of this unit. If it measures up, I'd bring it back with me. But I need to know what to look for, and that's where you guys come in with your critique.
Their email to me said it would be at least 6 months before they could market in the US. Then (if they decide to) it will take them a year or two to set up a few US dealers/distributors. I hope that down the road aways, we see this unit in the "Sawmill & Woodlot" firewood processor competition.
Well from my experience, I've owned two different firewood processors and cut around two hundred cords a year after full time logging job, you always want to go bigger than you think you'll need! a few faults i see on this machine is you will still work your body hard. My first one was a hakki pilke 1x47 it had a belt identical to this one for the infeed and you were always pushing pulling and bouncing to get the wood through the machine. The chain in my opinion is to small for firewood. I see this doesn't come with a elevator my opinion they are must if you don't want to handle the wood after every log you cut. The one i have now is a block buster 15-20 with add on air compressor and log deck and conveyor built on. it cost less than thirty thousand and thats a lot of money, but my honest opinion i'd rather spend three or four times for a machine that will last three or four times longer and hold its value. good luck
I can see the arm and shoulders feeling like they will drop off after about an hour of that, and wearing out completely, eventually.
Thats why its the old one :D
Quote from: mahonda on December 21, 2009, 11:44:11 PM
I see this doesn't come with a elevator my opinion they are must if you don't want to handle the wood after every log you cut.
Hi Mahonda. By elevator I assume you mean a conveyor, and I totally agree. Hud-Son has a conveyor for $2575 which I would get and that would increase my total investment to around 10 grand. Good point.
If my investment in this unit goes much higher, then I'd also consider the Hud-Son Badger for $13000 (plus $2575 for their conveyor). This is more than I paid for my brand new 2001 Toyota Tacoma pickup truck. The Badger weighs 2250 pounds compared to this unit which they claim weighs 1200 pounds (without the log lift). That's almost twice the weight, so I'm assuming that the Badger is quite a bit beefier and more robust. Does anyone own or have an opinion on the Hud-Son Badger?
Mahonda, does owning a firewood processor also require owning a welder. In other words, did/do you do a lot of repairs on your processors.
Quote from: Jeff on December 21, 2009, 11:49:29 PM
I can see the arm and shoulders feeling like they will drop off after about an hour of that, and wearing out completely, eventually.
Hi Jeff. I did screw up my shoulder pretty bad this summer from "tossing" 15 cords of wood as I split it. Many pieces were just to heavy and awkward to throw like you'd throw a baseball, so I would toss them with a "stiff arm", like you throw a shot-put. Did this for many years. Never had a problem until now. Must be my age is catching up with me. Us older farts gotta learn when to slow down a bit and learn to work smarter not harder.
Happy Birthday! 8)
You were 63 a few minutes ago and now you're 64.Usually new members don't age so quickly. :)
Quote from: Paul_H on December 22, 2009, 12:29:20 AM
Happy Birthday! 8)
You were 63 a few minutes ago and now you're 64.Usually new members don't age so quickly. :)
Thanks Paul. It's 11:44 PM here so I'm still 63. But I skip birthdays now. I figure for each one I skip, I get one year younger (don't I wish). Getting old ain't so bad. It's when I think I'm as young as I use to be that sometimes gets me in trouble (physically, I don't heal as fast as I use to). I run 5 miles, three times a week in under 75 minutes. And I have a weight machine I also work out on. My goal is to be able to pass the Marine Corps physical reediness test. (I was in the Marines for 8 years). I can do the sit ups and pull ups and step ups and standing jump. But It takes me 45 minutes to run 3 miles, and at my age, I have to do it in 36 minutes to pass the test. It's the stamina (not so much the strength) that deteriorates as we grow older.
NOW it's exactly Midnight, so ~~~~~
Happy birthday day to me, Happy birthday to me, Happy birthday day (awh shut up already !)
Two more years of work, and I can collect full social security (if it's still available).
Happy Birthday.
45 minutes to go 3 miles ?
Human walking speed is 3 miles an hour. So is this 'test' just a fast walk? ::) ::)
That is beside my point. I like the potential of the processor. But as mentioned, might be an expensive toy, that leaves you doing a lot of work. And I didn't feel easy when the operator had to reach over to operate the saw, and run the conveyor. As Jeff mentioned, real hard on the shoulders. Wondered why the conveyor had to be so high because the drop to the splitting bin didn't need to be so far. One log almost dropped on his toes. And the re-positioning for re-splitting seemed a bit unhandy. Wondered if the chain on the bar continues to run, or if it starts and stops.
I split with a regular splitter, and stack the split wood directly on pallets. About 4-5 hours per cord alone, but then don't have to touch the wood for 2-3 years, before forklifting the pallet into the garage when "the time" comes for the wood to heat the house. No tossing of wood, usually only need to bend to pick up the unsplit block, but lay the split pieces right on the pallet stack. I usually split into flitches, not quarters, as they are flat and easier to stack.
Gday
And welcome to the forum Gensesis ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) And Happy Birthday Mate My grandfather follows the same regime as you dose a 5 mi walk 3 times a week and dose situps and chinups every morning :o :) ??? hes the fittest 80yr old i know though ;) :D he still drives trucks full time in the city toboot these he tryed retireing but only made it 2 days before he took a job ;) :D ;D 8) packing bags at the supermarket untill he found a job driving again about a week later Im quite proud of Pappa if im half as fit as him at his age ill be doing well ;) :D ;D ;D 8) 8)
as far as the processor goes for the money it would be fine for supplying your own wood for yourself and maby afew others but you wouldnt see me on it for any production work but then again my cousins and i use to bench 30 cords out of 2' to 6' lengths on an old buzz saw on a regular basis and that would be alot easier in comparison ;) :D ;D
Regards Chris
Quote from: beenthere on December 22, 2009, 01:34:15 AM
Happy Birthday.
45 minutes to go 3 miles ?
Human walking speed is 3 miles an hour. So is this 'test' just a fast walk? ::) ::)
That is beside my point. I like the potential of the processor. But as mentioned, might be an expensive toy, that leaves you doing a lot of work. And I didn't feel easy when the operator had to reach over to operate the saw, and run the conveyor. As Jeff mentioned, real hard on the shoulders. Wondered why the conveyor had to be so high because the drop to the splitting bin didn't need to be so far. One log almost dropped on his toes. And the re-positioning for re-splitting seemed a bit unhandy. Wondered if the chain on the bar continues to run, or if it starts and stops.
I split with a regular splitter, and stack the split wood directly on pallets. About 4-5 hours per cord alone, but then don't have to touch the wood for 2-3 years, before forklifting the pallet into the garage when "the time" comes for the wood to heat the house. No tossing of wood, usually only need to bend to pick up the unsplit block, but lay the split pieces right on the pallet stack. I usually split into flitches, not quarters, as they are flat and easier to stack.
Hi Beenthere. Doing 3 miles in 36 minutes is 5 miles per hour. I can run much faster, but I can't keep it up. I can sustain 4 miles per hour for 5 miles. You can walk 4 miles per hour, but it's easier to run at that speed. To make the run a good aerobic workout (at least for me), I run at 5 MPH for 1 minute than walk at 3 MPH for 1 minute. This averages out to 4 MPH. I keep this up for 75 minutes, no breaks.
I sometimes wish I had some support equipment like a tractor with forks to move stuff around, but I don't. I'm thinking of building some 8 X 8 X 8 outdoor sheds (or bins with tops) on skids. I could move them when their empty, but not when they're full. I wouldn't "stack" the firewood. As I'm splitting, I would just let a conveyor dump the split pieces right it in the shed till it's full. This would eliminate one whole handling operation. Sheds would cost about $100 each. Sometimes 2X4's go on sale real cheap here. Each shed holds around 10 face cords of "tossed" wood. Even if I put wheels on them, I don't think I could pull them when they're full. I figure 1 face cord of mixed hardwood weighs between 1000 to 1500 pounds. So a full shed would be somewhere between 10000 to 15000 pounds. Am I close on these weight estimates? That's a bit much for my little Toyota pickup to pull.
Dumb question. (I always tell my learners there is no such thing as a "dumb question", and if there was, that would be the very best question to ask.) What is the significance of the chain bar starting and stopping? I'm thinking of my chain saw. It speeds up when I pull the trigger and slows down when I release. But it's always running. Does the chain saw on some of these processors work differently? If so, how?
Thanks Beenthere <><
Quote from: Meadows Miller on December 22, 2009, 02:08:49 AM
Gday
And welcome to the forum Gensesis ;) ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) And Happy Birthday Mate My grandfather follows the same regime as you dose a 5 mi walk 3 times a week and dose situps and chinups every morning :o :) ??? hes the fittest 80yr old i know though ;) :D he still drives trucks full time in the city toboot these he tryed retireing but only made it 2 days before he took a job ;) :D ;D 8) packing bags at the supermarket untill he found a job driving again about a week later Im quite proud of Pappa if im half as fit as him at his age ill be doing well ;) :D ;D ;D 8) 8)
as far as the processor goes for the money it would be fine for supplying your own wood for yourself and maby afew others but you wouldnt see me on it for any production work but then again my cousins and i use to bench 30 cords out of 2' to 6' lengths on an old buzz saw on a regular basis and that would be alot easier in comparison ;) :D ;D
Regards Chris
Hi Chris. Best regards to your dad. Us old farts gotta stick together. I always say either the workouts or making firewood are gonna kill me one day. I just hope and pray that "day" is a long way off. As far as "production work", max would be 20 to 30 cords a year. That shouldn't take to long with this machine (I think). They claim this machine can do 1 cord an hour. Even if I double the time it would only be 40 to 60 hours of work per year on the machine. That doesn't seem like a whole lot of work for a whole year. Or am I missing something?
Happy Birthday Don. As for owning a welder yes you will need to be some what mechanically inclined especially with these cheaper models. I've always said wood is harder than anything on equipment and i have worked on a rock crusher and wood is harder on conveyors motors and bearings. regaurding the chain i believe this one is actuated when you pull the handle. some run full time especially if they run of a pto so your not using the pump as much works well but is a little more wear and tear on bar and chains. don't know to much about the hudsons equipment I run a blockbuster now. My opinion is its one of the better ones out there they have a short video online i'm sure someone can put the site on here easier than me. i think your weight guess is a little short too don off the top of my head i was thinking the softwood i cut was over three thousand pounds a cord. If you have access to the wood and think you can sell it you could pay for a really nice processor with out a lot of extra time or work. and a word of warning when they say a cord an hour that is all straight perfect size logs sitting there ready to go i figure if they saw a cord an hour you end up doing a cord every two with maintenence and filing. sorry to go on and on but i do love what i do. Have to cause i don't make money at it :D
Hi Mhonda. Thanks for the BD wishes. My weight estimate was for a face cord, so a full cord would be somewhere between 3000 to 4000 pounds. But it could be a bit more. I to love to make fire wood. Never worked so hard and enjoyed it so much. Although it's taking me longer to do it now. I use to be an accountant, and now I'm a computer instructor at a technical college. One intangible and gratifying thing about making firewood is that at the end of the day, you can see what you've accomplished. Couldn't do that as an accountant. At the end of the day as an accountant, all I'd done was to move a large stack of papers from the right side of my desk to the left side. One thing about a processor is I'd have to buy full trailer loads of 8 foot logs. I wouldn't be able to go out and get my own free trees as I do now. I don't have the equipment to transport logs. Last time I bough a full trailer of around 12 cords the price was $85 a cord, delivered. That was three years ago. It was all freshly cut, good mixed hardwood. Their price this year was $95. a cord delivered. They're a small family logging business about 10 minutes from me. They're good people to do business with. But if they ever went under, my source for good, reasonably priced logs goes out the window and my processor would become a very heavy and expensive paperweight. I checked out the Blockbuster 15-20. VERY NICE MACHINE ! Is there much difference in price between it and the 14-12? I think the 15-20 handles larger logs. You've probably got the equipment to load the logs on the live deck. Do they make a model with a log lift for those of us who are "equipment impared". Just out of curiosity, what log splitter do you favor and why? If I don't go the processor route, I would replace my little Ryobi electric splitter with something bigger and more efficient. I was also thinking of building myself something. I don't know how to weld, but I have two retired welding instructors, and my neighbor is maintenance chief at his plant, who are all willing to teach me. That project from start (learning how to weld) to finish (a completed processor) would take me around 3 years. I'm reasonably mechanically inclined. (I can break off a spark plug as well as the next guy.) You've been at this stuff for quite awhile, so I really value your opinion. Thanks Mhonda !
PS: The best tool for fixing a computer is a big hammer !
Use the money you would have spent on the machine and hire someone to cut and split for you.
5 cords per year
5 hours to buck tree length to stove length + 5 hours to split + 5 hours to move = Total time 15 hours
15 hours at $25.00 per hour = $375 per year
At that price it will take 20 year to get the money back from the purchase. This does not count your time, mainenance fuel, Ect...
I generally do my own because I like to, but I have found guys to come in for $8.00 to $12.00 per hour. Busy years I hire it.
But if you hire it done you don't get to win. Ya know he who dies with the most toys wins. 8) Yeah its expensive but i like equipment and it helps me buy more sometimes it even pays for itself. don, i have a 22 ton generic wood splitter its great for oversized but is still slow. there guys here that know more about them then me but timberwolfe makes some really nice looking ones. the 14-20 is a bit cheaper. they make one for a tractor that has self loading arms on it. Call em they are really great to work with they could make you one with a loader if you decide to go that route. Most my wood is twenty foot long so i don't handle as many peices as you do. Have you looked at the small multi tec it would work great for you and has a self loading arms and built on conveyor and is built strong and works great on short stuff it was less than 20 thousand i think the only reason i didn't go that way was the length factor.
Quote from: stumper on December 22, 2009, 05:17:47 PM
Use the money you would have spent on the machine and hire someone to cut and split for you.
5 cords per year
5 hours to buck tree length to stove length + 5 hours to split + 5 hours to move = Total time 15 hours
15 hours at $25.00 per hour = $375 per year
At that price it will take 20 year to get the money back from the purchase. This does not count your time, mainenance fuel, Ect...
I generally do my own because I like to, but I have found guys to come in for $8.00 to $12.00 per hour. Busy years I hire it.
Hi Stumper. I'm no where near that fast. Are you sure your figures are right? Can any of you other guys work this fast? Maybe I'm a lot slower than I think. In one day, I'm lucky if I can find and cut 1 face cord of trees (that's 1 face cord!), buck them and load the rounds in to my trailer, and unload the rounds when I get home. This is just 1 face cord and it takes me pretty near a whole day. These trees are usually in a pretty dense area, and they seldom fall to the ground. They usually get hung up on another tree. No I have to fart around to get them down. Good "standing dead or down trees" are not that easy to find in the Nicolet Forest. The year I ordered a full trailer (about 12 full cords) of 8 foot logs, it took me pretty near the whole summer to buck, split and stack everything. My brother wanted me to take down a bunch of trees on his property. Some were near his house and garage and leaning the wrong way. I had to climb up each tree to put on a 3333 pound strap (I also put on a second strap just in case the first one snapped). I attached the other end to a distant tree and connected everything with a hand winch. I made the first cut and winched the heck out of that tree to pull it way away from any buildings. Then I made the felling cut, but didn't go quite all the way. Again, I winched the heck out of the tree and literally winched it until it fell right where I wanted it to. I had to do this for 5 trees. It was either go through all this work, or take a chance on turning my brothers buildings in to toothpicks. He had a bunch of other trees on a hill. I didn't have to worry where they fell. But getting the felled trees off that steep hill was a chore. I tried rolling the bucked rounds down the hill, but they just scattered all over the place. The next day I brought my ATV and dragged each cut tree down the hill to a flat spot next to my trailer where I could easily buck and load them. There are old railroad grades in the Nicolet Forest, with 8 to 10 foot drop-off on each side. If I find and take a tree from an area like that, I have to carry each bucked round up the steep embankment. This is a ball buster! 99% of the trees I take require a ton of effort. As I'm carrying rounds, I'm tripping over downed rotten trees for maybe 50 yards of dense forest. About 50% of the time, a US Forest guy will find me in the woods and ask to see my wood permit. I make sure that I never cut a tree I'm not suppose to. I go out in the summer when all the trees have leaves. When I see a tree with no leaves, it's a standing dead tree. Then I poke a screwdriver in to the tree a couple of times. If I bury the screwdriver in the tree, I let that tree alone (rotten). I work my butt off for my firewood. But I thoroughly enjoy it !
you mentioned driving to the factory to look the thing over..if they aren't selling in the US market yet, is there anything to prevent you bringing one home?
Quote from: mahonda on December 22, 2009, 06:58:14 PM
But if you hire it done you don't get to win. Ya know he who dies with the most toys wins. 8) Yeah its expensive but i like equipment and it helps me buy more sometimes it even pays for itself. don, i have a 22 ton generic wood splitter its great for oversized but is still slow. there guys here that know more about them then me but timberwolfe makes some really nice looking ones. the 14-20 is a bit cheaper. they make one for a tractor that has self loading arms on it. Call em they are really great to work with they could make you one with a loader if you decide to go that route. Most my wood is twenty foot long so i don't handle as many peices as you do. Have you looked at the small multi tec it would work great for you and has a self loading arms and built on conveyor and is built strong and works great on short stuff it was less than 20 thousand i think the only reason i didn't go that way was the length factor.
Hi Mahonda. I did check out the Multitek 1610EZ. I have their literature and price list. The 1610 with a log lift (not the live deck), and conveyor, is $24000. I really didn't want to (can't afford to) spend this much. I'd have to start a firewood business in earnest with this kind of investment. At 64, I don't think I'm ready for a second career. But ya never know.
Here's a video of the 1610 in action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOT6yP4QiKI
I did check out all of the Timberwolf splitters and really liked the TW-6. But they ain't cheap.
Here's a video of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6g8sVu6_cM
Here's a video of the Hus-Son Badger. It's $16500 with a conveyor, and doesn't require any support equipment. This is the one I was considering until I found the one for $7958. There is a review of the Badger at https://www.sawmillmag.com/reviews/58/Hud-Son+Badger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgftcvwMHVs
It's a good thing I have a three year supply of firewood on hand. I have plenty of time to do my homework on this stuff (and sometimes get very confused along the way).
Quote from: zopi on December 22, 2009, 07:34:00 PM
you mentioned driving to the factory to look the thing over..if they aren't selling in the US market yet, is there anything to prevent you bringing one home?
Hi Zopi. I emailed them and asked them that very question. I'm waiting for their response. I don't wanna get stopped at the border with something I'm not suppose to bring in to the USA.
yeah...for 24grand you buy a hydraulic sawmill and have nice square firewood...
Well I'm impressed your doing what ya do I'm 28 and feel like I'm behind and beat up at the end of everyday, but i must love it cause i still get outta bed to do it all over again. last week has been slow getting up, wrenched my neck good. Had the bone cracker try his best three times so far but i think its in now, so good for awhile longer. I was looking at buying their bundling splitter but like ya said they aint cheap. so i put it toward a processor. i've had my business for seven years and cut wood since i could pull it to the house in my red wagon and i still drive myself crazy trying to figure out the best fastest easiest most profitable way to do it. so when you figure it out let me know would ya. like my old man says, "Go Fight Win!" and i want a sawmill too! :D
Genisis, I see many shortcomings on that unit. If you need it quartered like thay are doing it would be very hard on the back to bend and drag the halves back to re-split. Pulling down on that bar would also be very tiring over time. And it is slow. Why isn't it splitting while the operator is cutting the next round.
I bet I could come close to the throughput of that machine with my 6 hp standard splitter and my tractor. I split directly into 1/2 cord boxes and then stack them away till i need it. Very little handling with my system. I collect the rounds in the bucket of my tractor and then take them to the splitter. I go directly from the bucket to the splitter to the box. Almost a cord and hour. The boxes can sit in the weather of under a tarp. I forklift and set them next to my boiler. I figure I can do this till I am 80 or so. The house is about 75 degrees right now. I have to open a window.
For that much money it should at least quarter the round or power feed the saw or both.
Joe
Hi Don
I have been looking at processors for a long time . I really can't see the difference in this unit versus a good splitter and conveyer unit . You said you would be buying log length firewood correct . You also said you would have to buy a conveyer . I believe a good splitter and conveyer would be much more versatile than this processor . 325 pitch chain seems quite small for processing firewood in this situation , you would be sharpening all the time. Getting really clean wood in log length is almost impossible . Think long and hard on this one , you do as much work with this as you will do with a chainsaw . Don't get me wrong , it a good idea but it needs a lot of improvement from an engineering stand point . I Don't think it would be easy to sell if you were unhappy .
Don, I was thinking, you said you can get wood from your national forest will they let you haul it out in eight foot lengths? a atv log trailer with a loader and a winch might be the first equipment you want to look into keep the cost per cord down and then move onto a processor. with the loader you could sit the logs right in front of your shed to cut and split and probably even run a splitter off the trailer hydralics. And if you end up getting a processor you would have a lot more options in what you can do. just a thought ya know, horse before the cart :D
My time estimate is pretty close for the sawing and splinting. It is from tree length on my yard. I can actually cut it faster if I use a big saw but with the 394 or the 3120 I am wiped out after two hours. The splitting does sometime includes my wife or son working the lever.
I have a freind that does the same with a smaller saw and splits by hand. But he is younger an more fit that I (46 and rides a desk).
In days gone by a man was expected to produce a cord of 4 foot wood per day with an axe and a bow saw. Fell, limb, buck, pile and usually help the teamster load.
Quote from: mahonda on December 23, 2009, 09:06:14 AM
Don, I was thinking, you said you can get wood from your national forest will they let you haul it out in eight foot lengths? a atv log trailer with a loader and a winch might be the first equipment you want to look into keep the cost per cord down and then move onto a processor. with the loader you could sit the logs right in front of your shed to cut and split and probably even run a splitter off the trailer hydralics. And if you end up getting a processor you would have a lot more options in what you can do. just a thought ya know, horse before the cart :D
Hi Mahonda. The National Forest doesn't allow any support equipment when using their firewood permit. All vehicles must stay on the fire roads. Big time fine if they catch any vehicle off the road and in the woods. But I can take my mountain bicycle anywhere in the woods. I can't take any tree larger than 18 inches in diameter, and the tree must be within 200 feet of an access road. They don't want guys cutting down a tree and then deciding it's to far from the road, so they just leave it there. Also, bucked pieces can't be greater than 4 feet long. And, any wood taken must be for self use. It can't be sold. So with these restrictions, I would be forced to buy truckloads of logs to use with a processor.
So you're 28. I have a granddaughter in college who's almost as old as you. You've got lots of time to collect more "toys". My toy collecting days are just about over. A processor, or a really nice splitter, along with a conveyor, will probably be my last major purchases. (I say that now, but we'll have to wait and see.) I've got a nice new 2008 Suzuki 750 King Quad ATV, a new 2008 Suzuki DR650 on/off road motorcycle, a really nice Gary Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo mountain bike which I ride a lot, and a couple other nice things to play with. This past summer I was doing 40 mile rides on my mountain bike as practice for a local 100 mile bike run. I live right on the ATV trails, and love to putz through the woods on the DR. The ATV has to stay on the ATV trails, but the DR can legally go anywhere a licensed vehicle can go as it licensed and street legal. I never buy a second toy until the first one is paid off. I ain't rich by a long shot. I only work 2 days a week as an instructor at our tech college and earn less than $16000 a year. So I really gotta watch (pinch) my pennies. But I really can't complain. I live on 10 acres. Got lots of room for nice big stacks of logs. I put up a new manufactured home in 2002.
Here are some facts and figures to ponder. A face cord of split firewood goes for $50 ($150 for a full cord) in these parts. Sometimes that even includes deliver and stacking. If I'm paying around $100 a cord for delivered logs, that leaves around $50 profit on a full cord. If I figure $15 in gas for equipment and delivery, that leaves $35.00 profit. If it takes me 5 hours to get from a full cord of unprocessed logs to delivered and stacked firewood at a residence, I'd be making about $6 an hour. I can make more as a greeter at Wal-Mart. But I'd rather make firewood. Another thought I had was to hire myself out to anyone who had a wood lot and wanted some of it turned in to firewood. I'd charge a fixed (rather than hourly) rate. That way I could work at my own pace. I'd cut the trees and split the wood for $25 a face cord. I'd only be selling firewood or hiring myself out until what ever I buy is paid for. Maybe 2 to 5 years. After that, maybe I'll keep going with the outside work, or maybe I'll just do my own firewood. Gotta wait and see how these old creeking bones feel then. I'm pretty conservative, so what ever I buy, I have to assume a worst case scenario. That being that I can't make any money with it. So I'd have to come up with the monthly payment on it just from my regular teaching paycheck. If I do make any money with it, that's just frosting on the cake. Realistically, what ever I buy is really just another toy. I could just keep processing my firewood with the equipment I have now. But how many people still cut grass with an old push rotary lawn mower? We all have "our toys".
So what goodies is Santa gonna bring you?
dON <><
Quote from: logwalker on December 23, 2009, 02:26:04 AM
Genisis, I see many shortcomings on that unit. If you need it quartered like thay are doing it would be very hard on the back to bend and drag the halves back to re-split. Pulling down on that bar would also be very tiring over time. And it is slow. Why isn't it splitting while the operator is cutting the next round.
I bet I could come close to the throughput of that machine with my 6 hp standard splitter and my tractor. I split directly into 1/2 cord boxes and then stack them away till i need it. Very little handling with my system. I collect the rounds in the bucket of my tractor and then take them to the splitter. I go directly from the bucket to the splitter to the box. Almost a cord and hour. The boxes can sit in the weather of under a tarp. I forklift and set them next to my boiler. I figure I can do this till I am 80 or so. The house is about 75 degrees right now. I have to open a window.
For that much money it should at least quarter the round or power feed the saw or both.
Joe
Hi logwalker. A 4 way splitting wedge is an option on the $7958 unit. It seems that all of these less expensive processors only do one part of the process at a time. I'm not an engineer, but I assume it has something to do with what the hydraulics can handle. But that's why I started this post. So you guys could educate me a bit on this stuff. Did you watch the video on the Badger? That's the one I was considering until I found the $7958 unit. The Badger weighs almost twice as much as the $7958 unit, but it costs more to. I don't think pulling down on the bar would bother me much. When I think of all the muscling I have to do now with just a chain saw, "any" processor has got to be easier.
dON <><
As is normal for me, I had a couple points I'd like to bring up.
Aside from the obvious safety concerns of having your hand near the the bar and chain...Did you see how that log tried to kick out, and off the processor?Something just doesn't seem right about that thing to me.
Though to be fair, I know absolutely nill about firewood processors. Just doesn't look right to me though. Also, does the log lift running off the same hydraulic pump as the saw present a technical/safety problem? It looks like when he engages the chainsaw; the log lift kicks a good bit.
Quote from: motohed on December 23, 2009, 08:52:19 AM
Hi Don
I have been looking at processors for a long time . I really can't see the difference in this unit versus a good splitter and conveyer unit . You said you would be buying log length firewood correct . You also said you would have to buy a conveyer . I believe a good splitter and conveyer would be much more versatile than this processor . 325 pitch chain seems quite small for processing firewood in this situation , you would be sharpening all the time. Getting really clean wood in log length is almost impossible . Think long and hard on this one , you do as much work with this as you will do with a chainsaw . Don't get me wrong , it a good idea but it needs a lot of improvement from an engineering stand point . I Don't think it would be easy to sell if you were unhappy .
Hi Motohed. See, you guys are educating me a bit. I didn't realize the chain pitch could/would necessitate more frequent chain sharpening. In fact, I know nothing about chain pitch. I currently use a little Stihl M170 with a 14 inch bar. I have 4 chains for it. When one chain starts to get dull, I just put on another one. I wait until I have 3 chains that need sharpening, and then I sharpen them all at once with one of those little electric sharpeners you hook to a car battery. This doesn't take me very long and that little gizzmo does a nice job of sharpening. After I've sharpened the chains 4 times, I take them in for professional sharpening to straighten out all of the angles. I figured no matter what process I bought, I'd get 4 chains for it and use my same sharpening routine. Or is there some fallacy in my thinking?
A lot of people have said what you said about a good splitter and a conveyor being just as fast as a processor. I don't see how that's possible if your starting with unprocessed logs. With a splitter, you'd have to first buck a log, then load the rounds on the splitter, and do the splitting. In the time it would take you to just buck the log, a processor would be finished with the log. Or am I missing something.
In terms of versatility, what does that mean? If it means the ability to do bigger rounds, I have my old splitter to do any really big rounds and really knotty wood. But I don't really get to many big or knotty rounds. Oh, like everyone else, I get the occasional rounds that seem to take forever to process. But I'd say that 99% of my rounds are straight and under 16 inches. Or did you mean something else by "versatility?
I'm not an engineer, so I don't know what to look for from that standpoint, so I appreciate your comments about that. I to think that the design concept has merit. But I don't know what to look for if I were going to change anything about it.
The way I see it, I don't compare the $7958 unit to any other processor, because there is no other processor anywhere near this price range. (The next step up price-wise is the Hus-Son Badger) I see this little $7958 unit as a step up from a splitter. Even if it were slower than a splitter, it still eliminates a lot of the handling and lifting involved in bucking and splitting wood. I'm thinking of doing just 20 to 30 cords a year. That isn't very much. That's just 2 to 3 truckloads of logs in a whole year. I think the big question is, "will it last". Will it stand up to the punishment of log after log slaming in to it and going through it. I'm trying to find out more about the company, to see how long they've been in business, and if they offer any referrals from people who have purchased this unit.
Thanks for you comments motohed. I'm learning a lot from this thread.
dON <><
Quote from: BcWoodWorks on December 23, 2009, 05:39:39 PM
As is normal for me, I had a couple points I'd like to bring up.
Aside from the obvious safety concerns of having your hand near the the bar and chain...Did you see how that log tried to kick out, and off the processor?Something just doesn't seem right about that thing to me.
Though to be fair, I know absolutely nill about firewood processors. Just doesn't look right to me though. Also, does the present a technical/safety problem? It looks like when he engages the chainsaw; the log lift kicks a good bit.
Hi Bc. I, like you, know nothing about processors. But I've spent the last 2 months trying to educate myself before buying one. You bring up some good points. Others have mentioned the log almost falling off the conveyor. When I first watched the video, I didn't pay particular attention to that. I was just so intrigued by its operation and performance compared to the way I do things now. But many other have noticed that to, so it must be something I need to consider. I noticed that the opposite side of the conveyor has three spindles sticking up to keep the log from rolling off the far side as it's being lifted on to the conveyor. Perhaps a simple lever could be welded on the operator side of the conveyor which could be flipped up and cause a similar series of rollers to pop up on the operator side to prevent the log from falling off.
I've watched videos of other smaller processors which had no mechanism to hold the log as it's being cut. I guess they figure that these are relatively low volume units, and as such, the user won't be "racing" through the process. (How wrong they can be!) I figure any processor is going to have it's own idiosyncrasies which the operator will become accustomed to.
Concerning the log lift running off the same hydraulic pump as the saw, what about it guys. Could this present any safety or technical problems?
Thanks for your post Bc.
dON <><
Quote from: stumper on December 23, 2009, 05:00:02 PM
My time estimate is pretty close for the sawing and splinting. It is from tree length on my yard. I can actually cut it faster if I use a big saw but with the 394 or the 3120 I am wiped out after two hours. The splitting does sometime includes my wife or son working the lever.
I have a freind that does the same with a smaller saw and splits by hand. But he is younger an more fit that I (46 and rides a desk).
In days gone by a man was expected to produce a cord of 4 foot wood per day with an axe and a bow saw. Fell, limb, buck, pile and usually help the teamster load.
Hi Stumper. You're pretty fast at making firewood. Having a helper is a big plus. I do "everything" alone, and probably at a more sedate pace than you, while using a smaller chain saw. I use a little Stihl M170 with a 14 inch bar. It just takes me so darn long just to find a good "legal" tree to cut. I buy the permit to take "standing dead or down trees" from the national forest. The permit is only $20 and entitles me to take up to 4 cords of wood. 3 permits a year can be purchased for a total of 12 cords. But none of this wood can be sold. It is only for self use. But finding good trees is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Luckily, I live right next to the national forest. I seldom have to travel more than 5 miles to find good trees to take. I always go out looking for "horizontal" trees after a storm. That's when some good live trees get blown over. But they're still a bear to buck and load.
Thanks for your post Stumper. And keep a-cut'n. It's good exercise for ya.
dON <><
Here's a $20 setup that should work as good as most.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAckm2YdLEQ
Quote from: jpgreen on December 25, 2009, 01:57:23 PM
Here's a $20 setup that should work as good as most.....
Hi JP. I checked this outfit out awhile back. They have a complete packaged firewood processor kit for $7900.
You can check them out at: http://www.firewoodprocessor.us/product-1.htm
dON <><
Farmi makes a processor similar to the one you first showed. It has a built-on conveyor, log lift, etc. I believe it is a much better machine. See Northeast Implement about it.
Also, as mentioned before, the Blockbuster PTO model is a really neat machine. I have one of their 15-20s and really like it.
so jpgreen what part of that cost 20 bucks or less besides the chain loop on the saw?
Quote from: Jasperfield on December 25, 2009, 09:00:43 PM
Farmi makes a processor similar to the one you first showed. It has a built-on conveyor, log lift, etc. I believe it is a much better machine. See Northeast Implement about it.
Also, as mentioned before, the Blockbuster PTO model is a really neat machine. I have one of their 15-20s and really like it.
Hi Jasperfield. I think I found the Farmi firewood processor you referred to. I've requested the price for a gas powered model. They offer this unit in PTO, electric, and gas powered. Click here to download a brochure on it: http://www.payeur.com/specifications/Mastersplit_WP30CS_eng%5B1%5D.pdf Here's a video of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA0x8VwSgIQ
Update: The price for the WP 30CS EM (electric model) is $15,630.00 and if you need the Hydraulic log lifter it is $1210.00 and the 6-way wedge is $570.00.
Quote from: mahonda on December 26, 2009, 03:14:34 AM
so jpgreen what part of that cost 20 bucks or less besides the chain loop on the saw?
Oh you went and actually added it up did ya? ... :D
Welcome Don,heating with wood is a buster no matter how you do it.I would stay out of that forest its not worth it unless you can pull a trailer or truck right next to where you cut.The unit your considering will work but is very limited to the size of the logs you can handle.A good hydraulic splitter,a dead deck the same hight as the splitter so you can cut chunks and roll them on the splitter.Build a wood or steel chute so the splitter will keep pushing the chunks up it to a pile or trailer.A fair sized tractor with forks would be a good investment.Now you could get the shop classes at the tech colledge interested in designing and building a processor and just buy the material.Only a thought but you could find a local tree service or logger ,do their taxes in exchange for your wood supply delivered.Us older guys win by persistance ,a little every day not BS the whole pile at once.Frank C.
Quote from: jpgreen on December 25, 2009, 01:57:23 PM
Here's a $20 setup that should work as good as most.....
I wonder if that guy could operate that splitter with one hand?
Because he has the cycle set up as automatic and he has to hold the block in the center of the wedge while he reaches back and triggers the auto cycle. If he gets a thunb, finger or even his glove over the end of the block of wood, it's gone and perhaps his hand too. ::)
And even on his cut off table, the long hydraulic lever is almost touching the saw handle. One wrong little move and that saw is jammed. And then he runs the saw with one hand sometimes too while he holds down the block with the other hand.
That guy's nuts. :)
Yea- maybe Obama could send a health and safety inspector over there to inspect and reprimand him, then write him up for his own safety and well being, then fine him accordingly for the welfare of the state .... ::)
I sure as heck would not wish that on him, but he must be used to counting his fingers at the end of a day. ;D
Update on the Farmi WP30CS firewood processor. I can get the gas powered model for $16,500.00 which includes the log lift, conveyor, freight and delivery. The Farmi can process logs up to 12 inches in diameter. I would really like a unit that can process logs up to 16 inches in diameter. But when I order a load of 8 foot logs, I rarely, if ever, get any logs larger than 12 inches in diameter. I can tell the guys I buy the logs from that I don't want anything over 12 inches and they're pretty good about giving me what I asked for. I can get the Hud-Son Badger, with a conveyor, for about this same price. But I'd have to pay for shipping. The Badger can process logs up to 16 inches in diameter. The difference between the Farmi and the Badger is how the logs are loaded on to the processor. The Farmi uses a log lift, whereas the Badger uses a winch. After viewing the video on the Farmi and the Badger, which do you prefer, and why?
Question: Between the two methods of loading the logs, lift or winch, is one method preferable over the other. If so, why? Or is it a horse apiece?
genesis5521
That is a quote to you. Doesn't seem real fair to the 3 Rivers Forestry business to post their quote to you.
Could just remove who it was from and it would leave sufficient info for the forum.
Quote from: beenthere on January 01, 2010, 10:58:06 AM
genesis5521
That is a quote to you. Doesn't seem real fair to the 3 Rivers Forestry business to post their quote to you.
Could just remove who it was from and it would leave sufficient info for the forum.
I don't see a problem. Times are tough and they are trying to make sales. They would likely give the same quote to anyone. JOe
I'm the one who started this thread on a $7958 firewood processor, and I hole heatedly support jpgreen's idea below. There's a certain satisfaction that comes through building something yourself. I've heard some say that you really don't need any plans if you're qualified to do all of the necessary work. That may be true for some but I for one am not that knowledgeable or qualified. That being the case I prefer to read and follow detailed instructions. Maybe we could come up with a set of truly free plans which could be freely downloaded. I know some of you have access to used/scrounged parts, but many of us don't have that knowledge or luxury. I'd prefer a materials list of over-the-counter parts which could be easily attainable locally or over the internet through reliable sources. I've done a lot of research on the internet concerning firewood processors. I don't know if the $7958 unit I started this thread on will ever be sold in the U.S.A. The next cheapest unit I found was the Hud-Son Badger for $13,999. This unit held its own at the annual firewood processor competition hosted by Sawmill & Woodlot. I know that there are many variables, but does anyone have a knowledgeable guestimate of what it would cost to build a decent firewood processor using all new steel and parts? I'm like you JP, in that I don't need (can't afford) a bigger, more elaborate unit. I really don't care if it takes two hours to process one full cord of unprocessed logs in to firewood, as long as I can eliminate a lot of the lifting, and handling, and lifting again, and handling again, like I do now. I'm not looking for high production.
This was your idea JP. If you start the thread, I'll sure come on board. I don't know how to weld (but plan to learn), and know nothing about fabrication. But I do teach accounting, computer, internet, photo editing, web page design, and a lot of other computer related courses. I'm pretty good at finding things on the internet. I'll contribute what ever I can to further this project along.
Don <><
Why don't we start a group firewood processor building thread?
Get the brightest fabrication minds together here at the Forestry Forum and develop a simple and cost effective design, then we all build each of ours at home, documenting it right here step by step.
Everyone could assist in finding deals on components and materials. For those who cannot weld they can hire it done, or have a friend or neighbor participate and provide the fabrication help, or use this as a good time to learn to weld.
I could use one, and it would not have to be a big expensive elaborate rig. We could start step by step and each member here could post pics of their progress at their own pace, and get help or contribute suggestions all along the way.
Steps could be like this:
1- Come up with a consensus on a simple group design buildable and affordable.
2- Develop a step by step fabrication plan- what tools and materials would be needed.
3- Start combing the web for the best deals on all the components everyone could order. We could negotiate a group deal from suppliers.
4- Start with the very first basic step of steel fab, post pics, then proceed step by step through the steel frame fab process, on to hydraulics etc.
Participants could contribute and work at their own pace, slow up or speed up as long as they post detailed instructions with pictures on their progress so every one could follow.
Quote from: jpgreen on January 02, 2010, 12:40:23 PM
Why don't we start a group firewood processor building thread?
1- Come up with a consensus on a simple group design buildable and affordable.
You know they say a camel is a horse that was designed by a comittee. You can get them with one hump or two. :D :D
And they are onery SOB's, they will spit at you and bite too. ::)
So who would be responsible if the thing bites someone? ;D ;D
I would strongly suggest if someone has trouble and issues being responsible for their own actions and accountable for what they do in life, do not particapate... ::)
Gday
Quote from: jpgreen on January 03, 2010, 01:06:53 AM
I would strongly suggest if someone has trouble and issues being responsible for their own actions and accountable for what they do in life, do not particapate... ::)
Jp They Dont Mate then then they turn around and try to blame us for al their issues :o :) ;) :D :D :D :D :D :D
Regards Chris
Quote from: jpgreen on January 03, 2010, 01:06:53 AM
I would strongly suggest if someone has trouble and issues being responsible for their own actions and accountable for what they do in life, do not particapate... ::)
smiley_clapping
Tim
Quote from: Gary_C on January 02, 2010, 10:55:33 PM
You know they say a camel is a horse that was designed by a comittee. You can get them with one hump or two. :D :D
And they are onery SOB's, they will spit at you and bite too. ::)
So who would be responsible if the thing bites someone? ;D ;D
I'm sorry but that concept really tics me off. Who thinks like that? That's why our world is nose diving for the moment, and putting corrupt scumbags in power and supporting bottom feeders.
If a guy doesn't have sense enough not to get bit, get away from me.. ::)
And if a guy doesn't have the aptitude to run a firewood splitter, they should not be participating in things that are enjoyed here on this forum like milling lumber. Sit back in your arm chair, and dream at a safe comfortable distance whilst you choke down a Swanson and leave us alone... ::)
There is another forum memeber that is already building a firewood processor and sharing that information. Look around and think a little before you open up too loud.
Quote from: LeeB on January 03, 2010, 09:40:36 AM
There is another forum memeber that is already building a firewood processor and sharing that information. Look around and think a little before you open up too loud.
Oh now there's another postitive comment.
Truly- I spend my valuable time here to contribute to this forum. I've brought and shared many positive ideas and equipment mods especially for Wood Mizers here for members.
I try to help with thoughts on a solution for a firewood processor that maybe some folks could benefit from, and now I'm being told to pipe down.
Maybe a link to the processor being built here I was not aware of would be more appropriate.
I don't know why I waste me time... ::)
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,40190.0.html
Here you go. All it took was a hit on the search button. I guess maybe you just have to have the right aptitude. :D
Quote from: genesis5521 on January 02, 2010, 02:04:24 AM
I'm the one who started this thread on a $7958 firewood processor, and I hole heatedly support jpgreen's idea below. There's a certain satisfaction that comes through building something yourself. I've heard some say that you really don't need any plans if you're qualified to do all of the necessary work. That may be true for some but I for one am not that knowledgeable or qualified. That being the case I prefer to read and follow detailed instructions. Maybe we could come up with a set of truly free plans which could be freely downloaded. I know some of you have access to used/scrounged parts, but many of us don't have that knowledge or luxury. I'd prefer a materials list of over-the-counter parts which could be easily attainable locally or over the internet through reliable sources. I've done a lot of research on the internet concerning firewood processors. I don't know if the $7958 unit I started this thread on will ever be sold in the U.S.A. The next cheapest unit I found was the Hud-Son Badger for $13,999. This unit held its own at the annual firewood processor competition hosted by Sawmill & Woodlot. I know that there are many variables, but does anyone have a knowledgeable guestimate of what it would cost to build a decent firewood processor using all new steel and parts? I'm like you JP, in that I don't need (can't afford) a bigger, more elaborate unit. I really don't care if it takes two hours to process one full cord of unprocessed logs in to firewood, as long as I can eliminate a lot of the lifting, and handling, and lifting again, and handling again, like I do now. I'm not looking for high production.
This was your idea JP. If you start the thread, I'll sure come on board. I don't know how to weld (but plan to learn), and no nothing about fabrication. But I do teach accounting, computer, internet, photo editing, web page design, and a lot of other computer related courses. I'm pretty good at finding things on the internet. I'll contribute what ever I can to further this project along.
Don <><
Hi Don
I would probly by the one from badger hudson . I have looked at it , the part seem to be pretty generic . It just would not produce enough wood fast enough . The Farmi stuff will be proprietory , so you will have to buy parts from them . I myself am looking at the CRD metal fab or works, processor , Model the rapido . It's a circle saw design , and relatively in expensive compaired to other manufacturers . It;s a relatively new company . I have also been thinking about building my own , I have al the equipment and most of the stuff I would need , I also have some good ideas . My problem ,as with most is the time . I tend to be maticulus ,which is good but it really cuts in to the time constraints . I suppose if my garage was bigger ,or I moved some of my other prodjects I would have room .
Scott
JPGreen
I have to ask what is a swanson ? :D
Quote from: LeeB on January 03, 2010, 10:07:07 AM
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,40190.0.html
Here you go. All it took was a hit on the search button. I guess maybe you just have to have the right aptitude. :D
Yea you're right... that's hillarious ... :D ..::)
Scott a Swanson is a TV dinner... ;D
Good luck and best wishes on getting your firewood processor together.
Quote from: jpgreen on January 03, 2010, 09:56:24 AM
Quote from: LeeB on January 03, 2010, 09:40:36 AM
There is another forum memeber that is already building a firewood processor and sharing that information. Look around and think a little before you open up too loud.
Oh now there's another postitive comment.
Truly- I spend my valuable time here to contribute to this forum. I've brought and shared many positive ideas and equipment mods especially for Wood Mizers here for members.
I try to help with thoughts on a solution for a firewood processor that maybe some folks could benefit from, and now I'm being told to pipe down.
Maybe a link to the processor being built here I was not aware of would be more appropriate.
I don't know why I waste me time... ::)
I don't think LeeB was telling you to pipe down so to speak ,as much as letting you know about another thread on building a firewood proccessor . We all get a little hot once in a while ,when we think someone is intensionally trying to ruffly our feathers . ;)
Quote from: jpgreen on January 03, 2010, 09:28:47 AM
I'm sorry but that concept really tics me off. Who thinks like that? That's why our world is nose diving for the moment, and putting corrupt scumbags in power and supporting bottom feeders.
If a guy doesn't have sense enough not to get bit, get away from me.. ::)
I am sorry that you misinterpreted my comments and came away with that conclusion. But really, that is the reason for all the problems in the world? Give me a break!
As someone that has participated in the machine design process, I can see some flaws in your concept, one of which is that one or more of the group may not some macho type that wants to ignore safety for speed. That is what that comment about responsibility was regarding.
Regardless of how many heads participate in the design, the first machine made will be a prototype of sorts and only then will you find out what ideas work and what don't. Then either the modifications begin or you scrap that one and start the next. It would not make sense to build 2,5,or 10 at a time. And there are very capable people out there that have already done that process and your chances of doing it cheaper are slim to none. Especially when you count your time. The people that are already doing this design get to divide the cost of their time up on many machines. You will not.
I am sorry I put that comment about responsibility in that post. That was not the main point that I was trying to make. But since you responded in such an agitated way I will also say this:
Quote from: jpgreen on January 03, 2010, 09:28:47 AM
And if a guy doesn't have the aptitude to run a firewood splitter, they should not be participating in things that are enjoyed here on this forum like milling lumber. Sit back in your arm chair, and dream at a safe comfortable distance whilst you choke down a Swanson and leave us alone... ::)
That macho attitude is one of many reasons why forestry and logging is always at the top of the accident charts. It's supposed to be safety first!
As far as the arm chair thing, yesterday I was too busy rewelding one spring support on my trailer out in the cold shed. It was -19 F out there and after that I used my firewood splitter (cost about $19) to warm up and get some supply for the OWB. I've never use a mechanical splitter. My way is faster and think of all the time I will save by not trying to reinvent the wheel. Remember the old saying, he who cuts his own wood is twice warmed.
And I did not know what a "Swanson" was either. ;D
Quote from: jpgreen on January 03, 2010, 09:56:24 AM
.............
I try to help with thoughts on a solution for a firewood processor that maybe some folks could benefit from, and now I'm being told to pipe down........
I don't know why I waste me time... ::)
JP
I think you waste your time here much like we all do.... because the rest of the FF members care. And not many places we go, do others care what we have to say, what we think, what problems we have, or what ideas we may have to offer.
I hope you keep your ideas coming.. 8)
Quote from: genesis5521 on December 23, 2009, 06:25:52 PM
Quote from: motohed on December 23, 2009, 08:52:19 AM
Hi Don
I have been looking at processors for a long time . I really can't see the difference in this unit versus a good splitter and conveyer unit . You said you would be buying log length firewood correct . You also said you would have to buy a conveyer . I believe a good splitter and conveyer would be much more versatile than this processor . 325 pitch chain seems quite small for processing firewood in this situation , you would be sharpening all the time. Getting really clean wood in log length is almost impossible . Think long and hard on this one , you do as much work with this as you will do with a chainsaw . Don't get me wrong , it a good idea but it needs a lot of improvement from an engineering stand point . I Don't think it would be easy to sell if you were unhappy .
Hi Motohed. See, you guys are educating me a bit. I didn't realize the chain pitch could/would necessitate more frequent chain sharpening. In fact, I know nothing about chain pitch. I currently use a little Stihl M170 with a 14 inch bar. I have 4 chains for it. When one chain starts to get dull, I just put on another one. I wait until I have 3 chains that need sharpening, and then I sharpen them all at once with one of those little electric sharpeners you hook to a car battery. This doesn't take me very long and that little gizzmo does a nice job of sharpening. After I've sharpened the chains 4 times, I take them in for professional sharpening to straighten out all of the angles. I figured no matter what process I bought, I'd get 4 chains for it and use my same sharpening routine. Or is there some fallacy in my thinking?
A lot of people have said what you said about a good splitter and a conveyor being just as fast as a processor. I don't see how that's possible if your starting with unprocessed logs. With a splitter, you'd have to first buck a log, then load the rounds on the splitter, and do the splitting. In the time it would take you to just buck the log, a processor would be finished with the log. Or am I missing something.
In terms of versatility, what does that mean? If it means the ability to do bigger rounds, I have my old splitter to do any really big rounds and really knotty wood. But I don't really get to many big or knotty rounds. Oh, like everyone else, I get the occasional rounds that seem to take forever to process. But I'd say that 99% of my rounds are straight and under 16 inches. Or did you mean something else by "versatility?
I'm not an engineer, so I don't know what to look for from that standpoint, so I appreciate your comments about that. I to think that the design concept has merit. But I don't know what to look for if I were going to change anything about it.
The way I see it, I don't compare the $7958 unit to any other processor, because there is no other processor anywhere near this price range. (The next step up price-wise is the Hus-Son Badger) I see this little $7958 unit as a step up from a splitter. Even if it were slower than a splitter, it still eliminates a lot of the handling and lifting involved in bucking and splitting wood. I'm thinking of doing just 20 to 30 cords a year. That isn't very much. That's just 2 to 3 truckloads of logs in a whole year. I think the big question is, "will it last". Will it stand up to the punishment of log after log slaming in to it and going through it. I'm trying to find out more about the company, to see how long they've been in business, and if they offer any referrals from people who have purchased this unit.
Thanks for you comments motohed. I'm learning a lot from this thread.
dON <><
Hi Don
I am sorry I haven't replied to this post earlier . My reasoning is if the wood is delivered by a log truck an American super splliter with a log lift and conveyer will be very fast . You will still have to buck the wood , but on the other hand you still will be able to load a truck . This combination what ever brand , will have a lot less maitainance . The processor will cut the logs for you ,but you will need equipment to feed it . The other thing with processors is you will need a good supply of bar oil and fuel . Much more than your chainsaw ,splitter and conveyer combination . The other thing is the quality of wood most processors produce is substandard , as you can't control the wood coming out of the splitter on a processor as well . I can do 30 to 40 cord in fifteen days or less . The good splitter and conveyer combination won't cost much more than the cheap processor . But the reward will be a much stronger setup , that will be easyer to move and set up . I would also switch saws to a stihl ms 260 pro or 361 pro , or husky equal . You will cut wood much faster with less over all effort on your part , trust me on this . A larger saw with a 3/8 pitch chain will stay sharper longer ,and horse power will get the job done faster . I know the work is some what hard ,but I have had both my neck and back , broken at different times and still do firewood . I also just had a total hip replacement on Dec 7 2009 , and I will continue to cut this way . I do about three hundred cords a year in firewood . I also have a lot of equipment , and do logging also so my firewood is the by product of logging , which are the tops . This brings up a known problem with processors , they really only like strait uniform logs . You may be able to find wood from tops for little to no money after a looging operation has been through , depending on the area you live . You may even be able to work a deal with the land owner to cut him some wood and get yours for free , or at least cheeper than the logs . This is my point off view , I have looked at many processors for the past twenty or so years , multitek , cordking , timberwolf ,etc are all realatively good units but very expensive . I have never been able to justify eighty to a hundred thousand dollars for making firewood , with the overhead and repairs of a processor . This is my take on firewood processors and other will have different opinions I know .
Best Regards Scott
Hi Scott:
Thanks for your comments and opinions. Although I've been a cut'n and a split'n for a few years now, my equipment, which is just a little Ryobi electric splitter, and my trusty Stihl chain saw, leave a lot to be desired. You've been at this a lot longer than me, so I really value your suggestions. I haven't yet ruled out just getting a really good splitter like a Timberwolf with all of the goodies. But they make so many different models. I take it you use the American Super Split. I checked out their website. I watched all of their videos. Quite impressive. Their splitters are VERY fast. I liked that their website shows prices for each model. Their top-of-the-line "special edition" is under $4300 with a log lift. Which model do you use and what goodies do you have on it?
So you can produce 30 to 40 full cords of firewood in approximately 15 days with just a good splitter and conveyor. That's impressive. What make and model of conveyor do you use? Do you have a system for bucking your logs? I just buck my logs outside, then move the rounds (with my trailer) inside my pole barn to my little splitter where I unload and stack the rounds. So I've already handled the rounds twice. I'd rather work inside where it's warmer (on a cold day I heat my barn) or cooler (on a hot day I have a fan running). I'm amazed that you produce 300 cords per year with just a splitter and conveyor. Do you work alone, or do you have helpers? Hope your hip replacement is doing OK. Now you'll be out dance'n, prance'n, kiss'n and romance'n again. If you're married, take your bride along.
All of the processors I've been I've been considering had some type of mechanism to feed the logs in to the processor without the need for any support equipment. I like the idea (concept) of a processor. But I also like the "simplicity" of a splitter. I don't know if I could keep up with that Super Split.
I'm toying with the idea of building some sort of mechanism (it's called a "contraption" by us non-fabricators who don't know what we're do'n) which would deliver the rounds to the splitter. Not a log lift. I'm thinking more of a tray (or a conveyor with rollers and sides) where I could load say 15 to 20 rounds, then tilt one end up a bit as needed (maybe with a hoist or a jack) to get the rounds to roll (or slide) down to the splitter. Or even use some sort of hand crank to move the rounds down a conveyor belt. Wha-da-ya-thunk? Dumb idea?
Dyna Products makes a decent processor for around 20 grand with all the goodies. Their website shows prices for everything. But ya do need something to load the logs on to the live feed deck. Because I don't sell firewood, I never really considered its "quality". The guy in the video claims he can do a full trailer of logs in one day.
http://www.dyna-products.com/sc14_firewood_processor.html
Here's a video on the model sc14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIhu8duBb2o
Here's a poor mans log deck feed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWkNiLw859U&feature=related
Don <><
Quote from: genesis5521 on January 03, 2010, 07:29:28 PM
Hi Scott:
Thanks for your comments and opinions. Although I've been a cut'n and a split'n for a few years now, my equipment, which is just a little Ryobi electric splitter, and my trusty Stihl chain saw, leave a lot to be desired. You've been at this a lot longer than me, so I really value your suggestions. I haven't yet ruled out just getting a really good splitter like a Timberwolf with all of the goodies. But they make so many different models. I take it you use the American Super Split. I checked out their website. I watched all of their videos. Quite impressive. Their splitters are VERY fast. I liked that their website shows prices for each model. Their top-of-the-line "special edition" is under $4300 with a log lift. Which model do you use and what goodies do you have on it?
So you can produce 30 to 40 full cords of firewood in approximately 15 days with just a good splitter and conveyor. That's impressive. What make and model of conveyor do you use? Do you have a system for bucking your logs? I just buck my logs outside, then move the rounds (with my trailer) inside my pole barn to my little splitter where I unload and stack the rounds. So I've already handled the rounds twice. I'd rather work inside where it's warmer (on a cold day I heat my barn) or cooler (on a hot day I have a fan running). I'm amazed that you produce 300 cords per year with just a splitter and conveyor. Do you work alone, or do you have helpers? Hope your hip replacement is doing OK. Now you'll be out dance'n, prance'n, kiss'n and romance'n again. If you're married, take your bride along.
All of the processors I've been I've been considering had some type of mechanism to feed the logs in to the processor without the need for any support equipment. I like the idea (concept) of a processor. But I also like the "simplicity" of a splitter. I don't know if I could keep up with that Super Split.
I'm toying with the idea of building some sort of mechanism (it's called a "contraption" by us non-fabricators who don't know what we're do'n) which would deliver the rounds to the splitter. Not a log lift. I'm thinking more of a tray (or a conveyor with rollers and sides) where I could load say 15 to 20 rounds, then tilt one end up a bit as needed (maybe with a hoist or a jack) to get the rounds to roll (or slide) down to the splitter. Or even use some sort of hand crank to move the rounds down a conveyor belt. Wha-da-ya-thunk? Dumb idea?
Dyna Products makes a decent processor for around 20 grand with all the goodies. Their website shows prices for everything. But ya do need something to load the logs on to the live feed deck. Because I don't sell firewood, I never really considered its "quality". The guy in the video claims he can do a full trailer of logs in one day.
http://www.dyna-products.com/sc14_firewood_processor.html
Here's a video on the model sc14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIhu8duBb2o
Here's a poor mans log deck feed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWkNiLw859U&feature=related
Don <><
Hi Don
I actually have a Brute splitter and conveyer . I was a dealer back in the late 80's before they sold out to Timberwolf I also sold saw etc . I have replaced the engine once on the splitter , and have had to do nothing to the conveyer . I like the American stuff these days ,they are built well ,and are reasonably priced . I would get the model with the log lift , and the log pans . I would also get their mid length conveyer ,as well . I set the splitter and conveyer up right close to my log pile . I cut some and split some , and it goes right into the truck . I do it out side , either early in the morning or late in the afternoon when it's hot . I recently built a pole type barn with with just a roof , it's high enough to get my equipment under along with my truck . I also have the ability to put logs close with my equipment , so I don't have to move very far between cutting and splitting . We put an old wood stove in under the roof for winter , and there always enough short or junk wood to keep me warm . My wife will help me some times , but it's pretty easy to cut two or three cords by myself in the early morning . I really only have to handle the wood once by hand . I don't normally stack it as I sell most of it . I also have children that will stack it , if need be . The other th ing I do is make it a point to cut nearly every day or at least five days a week . You need to be disciplined to do this , I know . I also do logging as well , I am fortunate to have the equipment to fell and skid the trees , I also have a four man crew that works with me . The firewood is my deal , so I do all the work , or at least most of it . My son and wife do a lot of the deliverys as I move on to the woods by starting time . You are wondering what time I start , I know . Well I will tell you that I get to see the sun come up every morning I do firewood , and in the three or four hours of day light , I can do two or three cords and still get to the jobsite .
Best Regards Scott
Hi Don
I found a link to some plans for a processor , that could easilly be built for about 3000 to 4000 bucks .
www.millerswoodcutting.com , maybe this would help you , at least the saw is hydraulically operated . It would be a good start I would make it saw , and move the logs hydraulically . The basic principals are sound , a larger engine would make it a little faster . I would not want to try and make high production with it . Just a thought .
Hi Scott:
I've already checked out Miller's website. Here's a video on the plans for his homemade firewood processor. He built it on a really tight budget of just over $1600 using scrounged and used parts. I, like you, had thought about spending 3 to 4 thousand dollars and use high quality parts and a much bigger engine and better hydraulics to make this thing work really well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw4YLDpLWXM
You can view a sample of his plans including a materials list at:
http://millerswoodcutting.com/assets/1st%204%20pages%20of%20Processor%20Plans%20version%202.pdf
Yeah , I watched the video . I think some small inprovements could be made and it would work fine for a home owner .
OK Scott. Then I'm back to buying a welder. The one I have my heart set on is the Hobart Stickmate® LX 235 AC / 160 DC for $445.00 at Fleet Farm. http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/stick/stickmate-lx235ac-160dc/ I've found numerous "how-to" welding videos on the internet, but I thought this 26 minute one was rather good in that the first half talks about safety and the second half gives some useful things to get me going and to practice on. http://oldwww.ez-net.com/~genesis/welding.wmv I've watched this video at least 10 times. Then I found an excellent 350 page welding book which includes tests on each chapter. I downloaded the entire book from http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson1_1.htm Took me quite awhile, but it was well worth it. I just finished reading chapter 1. After burning through 20 pounds of rods as "practice", my first project will be a log lifter. Free plans are available at http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/1982-09-01/Mothers-Log-Lifter.aspx My next project will be a simple log arch like this one: https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,40590.0.html Then I'll be ready to tackle the firewood processor at http://millerswoodcutting.com/firewoodproc.html I only work two days a week so I've got lots of time on my hands. This website has a log splitter kit for $1498 (scroll toward the bottom of the page) consisting of 7 parts. http://www.splitez.com/log_splitter_parts.html Is this a good place to start? Are these decent quality parts? If I go this building route, I figure it'll take me the better part of a summer to build a processor. Heck, it'll take me three weeks to just get two pieces of steel to stick together. And that weld will probably break the first time I wack it good and hard. But that doesn't deter me. It's all part of the learning process. I also have two retired welding instructors, and my neighbor who's the head of the maintenance department at his plant, who are more than willing to give me a few pointers and kinda help me along. I don't expect to become an "expert" welder. But I do expect to become "reasonably proficient."
A wire fed MIG is the way to go IMO. Stick welding has so many variables. I am using a welder/generator (Miller) with a spool gun. https://weldingsupply.securesites.com/Profax01.pdf. It uses a 2 pound spool of wire and can be switched to aluminum with the change of a gas cylinder. I looked at the suit case type and found the price to out of reason. With a bottle of gas I have $900 in it. It will weld anything I need it to and more, easily and anywhere I need to go.
Tim
Quote from: genesis5521 on January 06, 2010, 08:05:07 PM
OK Scott. Then I'm back to buying a welder. The one I have my heart set on is the Hobart Stickmate® LX 235 AC / 160 DC for $445.00 at Fleet Farm. http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/stick/stickmate-lx235ac-160dc/ I've found numerous "how-to" welding videos on the internet, but I thought this 26 minute one was rather good in that the first half talks about safety and the second half gives some useful things to get me going and to practice on. http://oldwww.ez-net.com/~genesis/welding.wmv I've watched this video at least 10 times. Then I found an excellent 350 page welding book which includes tests on each chapter. I downloaded the entire book from http://www.esabna.com/EUWeb/AWTC/Lesson1_1.htm Took me quite awhile, but it was well worth it. I just finished reading chapter 1. After burning through 20 pounds of rods as "practice", my first project will be a log lifter. Free plans are available at http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yourself/1982-09-01/Mothers-Log-Lifter.aspx My next project will be a simple log arch like this one: https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,40590.0.html Then I'll be ready to tackle the firewood processor at http://millerswoodcutting.com/firewoodproc.html I only work two days a week so I've got lots of time on my hands. This website has a log splitter kit for $1498 (scroll toward the bottom of the page) consisting of 7 parts. http://www.splitez.com/log_splitter_parts.html Is this a good place to start? Are these decent quality parts? If I go this building route, I figure it'll take me the better part of a summer to build a processor. Heck, it'll take me three weeks to just get two pieces of steel to stick together. And that weld will probably break the first time I wack it good and hard. But that doesn't deter me. It's all part of the learning process. I also have two retired welding instructors, and my neighbor who's the head of the maintenance department at his plant, who are more than willing to give me a few pointers and kinda help me along. I don't expect to become an "expert" welder. But I do expect to become "reasonably proficient."
Hi Don
Like moonhill said , I would also look at a wire feed machine . Both Hobart and Miller make very good machines , that will weld half inch or better . I would not buy the smallest unit , as you will be building all kinds of stuff , once you get started . Stick machines are almost obsoleate , except for the heaviest of welding and gouging . I would expect some people to disagree , but I have been a certified welder for a long time , I don't goug anymore as I have a plasma cutter that will cut up to an inch and a half and sever two inch material . Clean up is very easy with a wire feed machine or ( MIG machine) is the correct terminology . The down side to a mig machine the metal needs to be clean , rust and grease free . That is easyer than chipping slag from a weld . I would not recomend a non gas machine , you can buy them and the wire , but it is the same as stick welding at that point . I would also look at a good chopsaw and welding shield , it is as valuable as the welder . You will also have to be careful of your welding and tacking process , as you will find it is very easy to have your measurements pulled out of spec , while welding . I , as others here will help you as best as we can . Do yourself a favor and don't skimp on the welder , It will be one of the most valued purchases you make . You may not use it every day , but when you do , you will be happy that you did . You will also want to check what size breaker ,you need to operate the welder . If you what to talk about it , just PM me and I will give you my number .
Best Regards Scott
I would 2nd the flux wire or what ever it is. Use the gas, place a shield if it is outside and windy, which rarely happens. You can push your luck with dirty steal, rust and paint etc. but a nice clean material welds well no matter what your are using.
The reason I went with the spool gun was the 220 version of the smaller welders would have been plugged into the welder/generator and run off the ac outlet, it just didn't make sense. I happened to talk to another welding outfit and after a few questions they hooked me right up with this system, it is beautiful and in the same cost range I would have paid for the little box welder.
I used my generator for 4 hours to day sanding, routing, and drilling wood then opened my hall doors and put some real lock tight on the bolts which fell out of my cutting edge on my plow, prep for the next snow. A few days ago we fabricated a bicycle into a scooter with an electric motor, it still needs some tweaking.
Tim
Quote from: moonhill on January 07, 2010, 05:35:01 PM
I would 2nd the flux wire or what ever it is. Use the gas, place a shield if it is outside and windy, which rarely happens. You can push your luck with dirty steal, rust and paint etc. but a nice clean material welds well no matter what your are using.
The reason I went with the spool gun was the 220 version of the smaller welders would have been plugged into the welder/generator and run off the ac outlet, it just didn't make sense. I happened to talk to another welding outfit and after a few questions they hooked me right up with this system, it is beautiful and in the same cost range I would have paid for the little box welder.
I used my generator for 4 hours to day sanding, routing, and drilling wood then opened my hall doors and put some real lock tight on the bolts which fell out of my cutting edge on my plow, prep for the next snow. A few days ago we fabricated a bicycle into a scooter with an electric motor, it still needs some tweaking.
Tim
Hi Tim
I agree a spool gun in your case may be a good option . I also have one , but many times when I am using it , it will not fit into the desired place that a regular mig torch will . This can be a pain when you are fabricating a piece of equipment like a processor , Etc . I think the limitations of the spool gun , merit the extra expense , I am not sure how thick of a metal you can have really good weld penitration on with a spool gun . It has been my experience when welding stainless or aluminum , a quarter inch was on the outside of the buble with a mig gun . You may have come appon a better gun , I am not sure . In any case with the price of your Miller generator / welder combination , The price of a really good mig machine will be cheaper , IMO . I would stick with either Miller or hobart , I would also shop a local welding house close by . Mig welders have consumable items , and it will be much easier to find these items locally , and you will also need the gas etc .
Just to clear it up, I am off grid and don't have the typical power supply. If that was the case I would have dumped $2500 into a nice roll around floor jobbie with 30 pound spool. I don't do that much aluminum. Some of the smaller unites would not do aluminum either. The spool will crank up and handle whatever the welder will put out=thick stock and I can dial it down to to body work too. I am adapting to the bulky size of the gun, yes it is a consideration one I am ok with. I was brought up on a nice welder with a petit gun. I sometimes find myself cradling the spool gun like a baby. On my spool I don't have to change tips, one tip size handles all my wire sizes. Also it is a very rugged unit, with 50 feet of hose and cable. The floor model in the shop with its 10' hose was at times restrictive. All in all I am impressed with the unit. The only down fall I can see is the restriction of reach due to its bulk, I have jammed it into some tight spots. I could buy a longer flexible tip but am trying to get away with out it.
Tim
Hi Tim I was wondering if you can easly switch over to Stick if you have to for one of those hard to get at spots?
I have both a old ac stick and a small mig and find I still use the stick often for that heaver and not so clean stuff.
Cheers and thanks.
Yes, it is easy to switch over to stick. Just unbolt the one lead and bolt to stick on I don't have to change the ground. But I don't see myself doing that, I am just a poor stick welder. I can get the spool into areas where I would have trouble with a stick. It is a choice though.
Tim
http://www.mammothwoodproducts.com/index.html well here is another one to look at. But I don't think i wood buy it. I do like a couple of the ideas they had here but for the most part this just scares me. I'll stick to my blockbuster!
Hi Guys. Don here. I appreciate all of your comments and suggestions regarding which welder I should get. I was over in a welding forum, and the consensus there was that for this particular job (building a firewood processor, and working with 1/2 inch thick material) a stick welder is the way to go, and much cheaper. A wire feed model like the Hobart IronMan 230 (which is what they thought I would need to weld thick stuff) would set me back around $1700.00, whereas the Hobart Stickmate® LX 235 AC / 160 DC is $445.00. I know I've opened a can of worms here. Sorry about that. After burning through 50 or 60 pounds of "practice rods", I'll get the hang of stick welding. I just don't think I'm gonna use a welder very much after I get this project completed. I already have a 50 AMP welding outlet in my garage. 8 years ago, the electrician suggested I put one in just in case I ever wanted to get a welder. Who'd a ever thunk?
Motohed (Tim), you're a certified welder, and I know you prefer a wire feed welder, but could I go wrong by getting the Hobart Stickmate® LX 235 AC / 160 DC for this particular project where I'd be welding 1/2 inch thick material?
Again, thanks for all of your input guys.
dON <><
Quote from: mahonda on January 07, 2010, 10:56:54 PM
http://www.mammothwoodproducts.com/index.html well here is another one to look at. But I don't think i wood buy it. I do like a couple of the ideas they had here but for the most part this just scares me. I'll stick to my blockbuster!
Thanks Mahonda. I already checked out the Mammoth firewood processor. They want $13,500. for it and it isn't as automated as the Hud-Son Badger which is the same price.
Here's a video on a nifty log splitter. It's the Splitright SR325, but it's
$11,000.00 ! ! !http://www.vimeo.com/7208931
They have lots more videos at: http://www.splitright.com/videos.php
I'm thinking if i make a cheap but well built small processor I could fill a huge niche market there isn't anything in the size or price range that most people could use.
I'll be your first customer Mahonda ! Better for you to build it than me. Where should I send the deposit? You're dead right when you say that there is no U. S. A. manufactured inexpensive processor aimed at the home user market. This thread has been viewed over 1800 times in a relatively short time. Granted, some of those are repeat viewers, but I'll bet that there are a ton of people who would just luv a reasonably priced, well designed, and well built firewood processor. My original post, which started this long, informative, and interesting thread, was for a $7958 processor. It doesn't have to be a high production unit. I'd be happy with a production rate of a full cord every 2 hours, as long as it eliminates bucking logs, and loading rounds on a splitter. It should include a conveyor. It should include a log lift or a winch (like the Hud-Son Badger) to load the logs so no support equipment is necessary. It should be able to handle 16 inch diameter logs. It should be made of as many "off-the-shelf parts" as possible. It should have a hydraulic saw. It should be road legal. It should be towable with an ATV. It shouldn't have a lot of "bells and whistles". Just a sound, basic, and simple design. It should be built with the same quality, care and attention to detail as if you were building it for yourself. It should come standard with a 2, 4, and 6 way wedge. The splitter should be around 30 tons. (35 or 40 tons would be even better for those 4 and 6 way splits of really knotty rounds.) It shouldn't need any "accessories", as everything is included. It should just plain "work" the way one would expect it to, with no negative surprises. Anything in the 7 to 10 thousand dollar price range should sell like peanuts at a ball game. At this price point you should be able to use the highest quality parts and materials, and still make a right decent profit. Yup. It's time for you to launch your new career as the CEO of your own, very successful and very profitable, firewood processor manufacturing company. (Even though you're the CEO, you might still have to wash the windows, or cut the grass once in awhile.) So what are ya wait'n for. Put that chain saw down, get out that welder, and start the sparks a fly'n ! I'll be there on Monday to pick up unit number 2. (Unit number 1 will be your prototype/pre-production unit.)
:)
Don <><
PS: I checked on the Canadian company which manufactures the $7958 firewood processor. They have a total of 3 employees.
Don, I thought the 8k unite fit what you were looking for. I was a little surprised at the comments. In comparison of cost and effect it seemed like you get what you pay for. With a proper welder(not stick) you could maintain and upgrade as need be.
I am guessing the guys in the welder forum are overlooking the learning curve with stick welding. Quality of the weld would concern me. I am not a certified welder, hence my crutch the MIG. You would have one heavy rig if it was all 1/2" stock. Go try both types of welders you need to experience what you are up against before you put any cash out on a welder/splitter.
Tim
Please don't take offence at what I say.A processor that will handle 16" logs of most any legnth will have to be heavy with expensive components and may not be worth the expense for a single persons heating wood.Kinda like building an asphalt plant to do your driveway.If someone can build their own with scrounged parts yes its practical.To build to sell if you do it right you will end up with a low end commercial processor,and all the liability attached.Possibly design and build a prototype then sell plans with the usual disclamers.Really the work is handling heavy chunks, make/buy a good splitter,have it at a handy working hight.Build a dead deck for the logs with slots every 16 or18"[whatever legnth you burn] so you can easily cut with your chainsaw.Deck is at a hight so the cut chunks can roll on the splitter.A simple conveyer for the split pieces or just throw them in a wagon.I thought about building a processor but my wood comes from a municipal stump dump odd sizes and large chunks.I built a hyd. splitter with a lift/table roll large chunks on it lifts and serves as a table,split pieces go in a nearby trailer.Good luck whatever road you take Frank C.
Quote from: moonhill on January 08, 2010, 07:45:57 AM
Don, I thought the 8k unite fit what you were looking for. I was a little surprised at the comments. In comparison of cost and effect it seemed like you get what you pay for. With a proper welder(not stick) you could maintain and upgrade as need be.
I am guessing the guys in the welder forum are overlooking the learning curve with stick welding. Quality of the weld would concern me. I am not a certified welder, hence my crutch the MIG. You would have one heavy rig if it was all 1/2" stock. Go try both types of welders you need to experience what you are up against before you put any cash out on a welder/splitter.
Tim
Hi Moonhill. I do like that Canadian built 8K machine. But I don't know if it will ever be sold in the U.S. After my initial communication with them, I emailed them a few more times, but haven't received any responses. I don't know what's up with them. So I'm back to building one myself. Unless I can get Mahonda to do it for me :)
I know many prefer a wire welder. And if I were going to do a lot of projects, maybe then I could justify the cost of something like a Hobart IronMan 230 ($1700.00 at CarQuest). The guys in the welding forum just assumed that a firewood processor would require some welds on thick material, like welding the splitting wedge on to the I-beam. I talked to a salesman at "CarQuest" who built a wood splitter. He said the wedge popped off the first time he used it. His smaller wire feed welder just didn't have enough juice for welding in that thick spot. He took it to a welding shop, and they stick welded the wedge on for 10 bucks. He's said it's never come off since.
Here's an answer to my post regarding the Hobart Stickmate LX 235 AC / 160 DC at the welders forum: "That Stickmate will be good for the firewood processor project. You will be doing some thick steel plate, and you'll find stick well suited to that. The wire feed for that thick material puts you up in the HH210 or Ironman categories, and much more money. Whichever way you go, you may well end up buying the other type machine as well. A number of us use wire for "everyday" thinner stock, and reserve the stick for material 1/4" and over. You will no doubt be using some 1/2" plate on that project."
Here's another quote: "With a little instruction from someone that knows I have seen guys make good stick welds right off the bat. I have a Stickmate class machine or 2 and its what I use cause its there and works so well. But,,,,, if I was into this, didn't have any machine, decided to buy new I would have to consider the Maxstar. It cost a bit more out of the box but so many things make it cheaper and so useful in the long run. Its really like 2 machines in 1."
I haven't ruled out a wire feed welder, but I'm sure leaning towards the Stickmate LX 235 AC / 160 DC. I would like to try both types of welders. Maybe
that will be my next "
project".
Thanks for you comments and suggestions moonhill. I started this thread to learn a thing or 2. And I am.
Don <><
Quote from: bandmiller2 on January 08, 2010, 08:07:12 AM
Please don't take offence at what I say.A processor that will handle 16" logs of most any legnth will have to be heavy with expensive components and may not be worth the expense for a single persons heating wood.Kinda like building an asphalt plant to do your driveway.If someone can build their own with scrounged parts yes its practical.To build to sell if you do it right you will end up with a low end commercial processor,and all the liability attached.Possibly design and build a prototype then sell plans with the usual disclamers.Really the work is handling heavy chunks, make/buy a good splitter,have it at a handy working hight.Build a dead deck for the logs with slots every 16 or18"[whatever legnth you burn] so you can easily cut with your chainsaw.Deck is at a hight so the cut chunks can roll on the splitter.A simple conveyer for the split pieces or just throw them in a wagon.I thought about building a processor but my wood comes from a municipal stump dump odd sizes and large chunks.I built a hyd. splitter with a lift/table roll large chunks on it lifts and serves as a table,split pieces go in a nearby trailer.Good luck whatever road you take Frank C.
Hi Bandmiller. I couldn't possibly take offense at you for expressing your opinion (which I value). You make some very good points. I guess I'd like a processor that's built like a tank, can do it all, and is dirt cheap. Well I know that ain't gonna happen.
Can you explain what a "dead deck" is? I assume it's something to hold logs. But how do you get the logs on it? Got any pix or diagrams of one you can share with us?
Don <><
I have a Lincoln 225 AC/DC that use for everything, primarily because that's what I have. I have welded for a living over a lot f the eastern states, used some nice machines, somebody Else's dime. Stick is harder to pick up than wire, but, not impossible. Whichever way you go the same rules apply, don't try to lay down too much metal at a pass, and the machine has to run hot enough to penetrate. Example, the wedge on a splitter would probably 3/4" plate. With a 1/8" rod put about a 1/4" filet weld on followed by another weld from the base metal ending about 1/2 way in the weld. Next pass would be from that weld to the wedge. Both sides done this way. Multiple passes are better that one heavy pass with a smaller machine. My point is not to teach welding, just to show you can do it without breaking the bank on the cost of a welder.
WH I have a Lincon 225AC, only some times it would be nice to have the Dc too.
If I am welding something thick that will need to be real strong I will cut it to a V and fill it in with lots of passes and lots of chipping and cleaning after each pass this would apply to mig as well (except for the chipping), pita but thats what it takes sometimes.
I am not a welder by profession but I do ok, If people are looking to learn how to weld look around and see if anyone is offering any night classes I took one years ago after I thought I could weld, it improved my welding quite a bit. It showed me what to look for and try when things are not working right. Also I try to do my welding flat when ever possible, and all rods are not created equal even if they have the same number.
Hilltop, what rod you running on that straight AC machine? On DC I use 7018, Ac 7014. The V and multiple passes are a necessary evil of the welding game.
A lot of the welding that was reserved for stick only on construction is going to innersheild wire, Pile splices, tube pile, etc.
I would have to look to be sure But I think 6011 and 7018.
I tried a bit of flux core with my wire feed/ mig welder man never had so many burn holes in my clothes terrible stuff then went to mig/gas shield wow what a difference.
:D :D :D. Only time they ever let me have gas, unless I cooked the beans, was great. With no gas, keep a little deeper in the puddle and run it hot, puddles too much, lead it out a little more. Only experience will let you get it right.
Looking at your earlier post about flat welding, I used to do the same thing, had an old welder show me a few things, I would rather do vertical or overhead now as flat. Can't tell you how, has to be demonstrated.
Don,I'am afrade the picture post thing continues to elude me.Dead deck,think of timbers laid down parallel with a four inch or so gap between them they just make it easier to cut the log and at a hight to roll on the splitter.Ideal is a setup on a side hill logs can be dumped on the ground and rolled on the deck.A ramp can be used or you could load them with that tractor you sorely need.Wire welders are dandy but one that will handle heavy metal are quite expensive.Stick welding is not that hard to learn like milling you just have to do it.Usally if a weld looks good it is good.An oxy-acet torch is very handy along with a 14" cutoff saw and small angled grinder.Many of the assemblies should be bolted to allow for adjustment.A carefull workman with a few tools can make a machine as good as store bought if he takes his time and dosen't rush and cobble things togather.You may find you enjoy building as much as using.Oh get yourself some 1/8" 7014 rod,they call it drag rod you can actally drag it along a joint and get a good looking weld its a big moral booster when your learning.Frank C.
I have a Lincoln mig,SP175T,has 5 settings on it,runs on 220.I only use flux core.I think they changed that to inner shield now.I use gas at work and what a difference.But all my welding is done out side.I'm up on a hill so I get a breeze just about all the time.So that's why I use no gas.Yes,it does splatter alot more and the unit does cost more.But I like the convenience of no gas.I only have to worry about running out of wire.Years ago when I had a smaller mig,I would of had to travel 30 miles for it.Now every auto parts store carry it.I do weld some thin stuff at times too.That's why I went with the mig.
Quote from: genesis5521 on January 08, 2010, 02:55:58 PM..........Can you explain what a "dead deck" is? I assume it's something to hold logs. But how do you get the logs on it? Got any pix or diagrams of one you can share with us?
Don <><
As mentioned by bandmiller2, the
dead deck is simple (logs or timbers to receive logs for milling), and different from a
live deck (which has some form of chain or other means of moving the logs forward to the mill).
Look back at post #70 of this thread. There is a picture of a dead deck in the second video link.
This was alluded to earlier, just use a basic wood splitter at a reasonable height. Have the logs dropped by the self loader on a set of bunks (dead deck) already elevated so you don't need a log lifter ( I do this on my saw mill). roll a log off the bunks onto a sturdy table with pre marked cut lengths, cut the log with the chain saw and turn the bolt of firewood so it rolls down the slightly inclined cut bench to the splitter. You may have to run back and forth a little but you will spend far less than 8k and that is for the cheaper version. Add a conveyer if you wish to remove the split wood. You may not even need a welder.
On the welders, one thing I like about my welder generator is it is a generator too. Why people buy generators is beyond me, it cost no more than a reasonable generator and you can weld with it, stick or mig.
Tim
I got this Board Sizer when I bought the Circle Mill. It would be a good start to building a processor Live Deck with the Blade removed.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13635/1168/Board_Sizer.JPG)
Quote from: LeeB on January 09, 2010, 12:18:35 PM
Look back at post #70 of this thread. There is a picture of a dead deck in the second video link.
Thanks for straightening me out on the terminology LeeB. So a "deck feed" and a "dead deck" are the same thing. Kinda like "bookmarks" and "favorites" in a web browser. Different terminology for the same thing.
Conley, Hilltop and CFarm. Thanks for your posts about welding.
I found 3 good videos about a guy that built his own firewood processor. He did a pretty nice job. Check them out.
After you watch the videos, here is some further info on his project:
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=94145&page=2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LpOR50njwQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3ZilOQCE5M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qaHhFEgz0g
Don,live deck and dead deck are turms with their roots in circular mills.They do the same job but a live deck is powered ,usally with a chain,and it moves the logs to the carriage.A dead deck is not powered,you have to roll the logs.In some locals its called a log brow,same thing its a storage/ staging area for the logs you are about to process.Frank C.
Nice home built. I thought it had a good cutting speed.
According to his specs and my conversions he is cutting a little over 2 cord/hour with 45hp and has a chain speed of 5900 ft/min. I thought it cut faster than some factory built ones I have seen on the web that were running 80 hp.
It's got cutting on the ground and lifting on the splitter beat, of coarse I would have to get me one of those fancy log loaders too.
WH I get by OK on the vert. and over head welding when I have to but never have been able to get AC to do as good of a job as what I have tried with someone else's $$$ welder (DC reverse I think). What setup do you use for overhead and vert. as far as current type and polairty and rod? Maybe you can give me a hint as to what the trick is the old welder showed you.
That guy built a good workable processor,but I'am not excited about the logs swinging around on the grapple.It could be improved with a live deck or dead deck and a hookeroon to pull the logs over. Frank C.
Hilltop I hear what your saying 30 years ago I bought a Miller 250 amp stick welder ac/dc tried one weld on ac then switched over to dc reverse haven't changed it since.Overhead you need a fast solidifying rod like 6010/6011 something like 7014 will just sag and drip,its kinda like filling a gap weave in and out.Frank C.
Nice videos. I have a similar Log Loader with grapple to load a dead deck and then cant roll the logs. I use a PTO cordsaw (buzzsaw) off my 45 HP tractor. Drop everythng down on a small platform trailer for transporting or splitting by hand or if too large use a hydraulic splitter aligned to handle those splits that runs off the tractor hydraulics at the same time. At times will just cut from the dead deck into a dump trailer with my chainsaws. Overall it is a lot of work but I can do easily do a complete full cord of wood in a few hours (working alone). I rarely do more than a few hours of firewood at any one time though. The way I figure firewood for me is excercise and extra wood that would otherwise be wasted. I do heat with wood and by doing over 100 full cords a year in my spare time earn a little extra. It definitley allows me to bypass the gym and hopely less doctor visits. The only equipment I need dedicated to doing firewood is the cordsaw & splitter and purchased both new for around $2,000 dollars. Sure I would like to get a wood processor but for that kind of money I would rather spend it on a lot of other things and then of course what would I do daily for excercise?
Not a processor, just taking some of the back pain out of it.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/11671/Img0729.JPG)
Wood is loaded on the deck with the loader, cut to length with chainsaw, rolled to splitter side, thrown in the box. The box can be picked up with the loader and either carried to the basement steps or dumped on truck for sale.
Welding question. Keep in mind that building a firewood processor requires welding some 1/2 inch thick material. I could get either a stick welder or a wire feed welder to do the job. However, I've been reading that there are "multi process welders" that will do both stick and wire feed? Does this mean I can literally do "wire feed" when I want to and switch to "stick" when I want to on thick material? Is a multi process welder something I should consider, or am I better off with a single process welder?
Went to Lincoln 's website and looked to see. These machines would do about anything. At $6200.00 plus tax you could buy a lot of seperate machines.
The bottom line welder generator from Miller and Lincoln run around $2500. I can weld with the mig and in 2 minutes be welding with the stick, but I wouldn't for the mig and I can do a better job than the stick and I, IMO. I can turn the heat up to max and adjust the wire feed to fill the need, at 100%duty cycle. I am running a Trailblazer. I looked at the low rpm diesel version they offer and at $9000 I couldn't do it, I would have liked to.
The welder generator may not be ideal for everyone, it is for me and my needs.
Tim
I have welded with 600 amp wire/stick machines burning 1/4" rod and 3/16 flux core wire down to small tig jobs on .015 foil stock for work.
At home I have a Hobart 140 wire feed and a Lincoln 225 ac buzz box.
The only difference is time. In welding 1/2 stock I know I need to bevel the pieces before welding, which means more time filling with the smaller machines.
And on any thing thick preheat is your friend, a drip of water should dance around on the piece when ready to weld.
If you want two rods to keep in your rod oven that will cover 99% of your needs it would be 6011 and 7018.
6011 does well with overhead and first passes in dirty steel. 7018 is good for strength and up too a point dissimilar steels.
On the wire feed I run 80K psi flux core. A lot less splatter than stick and very little stopping, much faster for tack ups also.
If you have other specific questions, post them we have a very good group of welders here that will try and solve the problems. :)
Quote from: genesis5521 on January 10, 2010, 03:38:51 PM
Welding question. Keep in mind that building a firewood processor requires welding some 1/2 inch thick material. I could get either a stick welder or a wire feed welder to do the job. However, I've been reading that there are "multi process welders" that will do both stick and wire feed? Does this mean I can literally do "wire feed" when I want to and switch to "stick" when I want to on thick material? Is a multi process welder something I should consider, or am I better off with a single process welder?
These machine are very expensive I have one that will run on 120 volst all the way up to 3 phase 440 volts . it will do tig ,mig and stick , and is in a little suit case . I take it to most any job I am on . you will never need a welder like this unless you are doing steam pipe or or large pipe repairs on ships mining equipment etc. I would buy a good 250 amp ac /dc machine and good leads , you can always add the seperate mig setup .
My thanks to all of you who posted comments about welding. Every little bit helps (or raises more questions which I need to consider). I've ruled out a multi processor welder. Still leaning real heavy toward stick.
Hey Reddog, I checked out some of your albums. What kinda bike do ya have. I have an 08 Suzuki DR650SE on/off road. I ride almost exclusively off-road in the Nicolet Forest in Northern Wisconsin. It's a nice way to find trees for firewood.
http://www.suzuki-bikes.com/2008-suzuki-dr650se-pictures-specs/
don't rice rockets go too fast to see trees?
Update on the $8400 Canadian dollars firewood processor. The Canadian to U.S. exchange rate is constantly changing.
I just calculated $8400 Canadian dollars to be $8143.64 U.S. dollars.
I just received an email from Sheldon Gilmer. Quote "Hi Don: Its been a few weeks since we exchanged emails on our firewood processor. We did some homework with our insurance company and our lawyer and they agreed that someone from the US could come to Canada to purchase the unit. Please don't hesitate to contact me if you have any questions."
I emailed him back with these questions:
1) Would I have any problems at the border. (i.e. Would I need any special paperwork from you to present to the border guards (both U.S. & Canadian).
2) Would I need to pay in Canadian dollars or U.S. dollars.
3) Would there be any tariff or tax.
4) Is the unit "street legal". If not, will it fit in a 5 foot X 10 foot 3500 pound (gross) trailer.
Here's a nice picture of the unit. (Kinda looks like an overgrown splitter, but who cares, as long as it gets the job done)
http://edmundston.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAdLargeImage?AdId=173304759&back=-5&ImageIndex=0
They now also offer conveyors of various lengths starting at $2850 for the 16 foot unit.
http://edmundston.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAdLargeImage?AdId=173304759&back=-7&ImageIndex=2
It sounds to me like you are going for it, let us know how it turns out.
G5521 We have our own log weight calculator. :) Look at the top of the page for forum extras and select tool box, it's in there.
Quote from: genesis5521 on January 14, 2010, 06:16:59 PM
I emailed Sheldon these questions. His response is below.
1) Would I have any problems at the border. (i.e. Would I need any special paperwork from you to present to the border guards (both U.S. & Canadian).
2) Would I need to pay in Canadian dollars or U.S. dollars.
3) Would there be any tariff or tax.
4) Is the unit "street legal". If not, will it fit in a 5 foot X 10 foot 3500 pound (gross) trailer.
Sheldon wrote:
I will check into the paper work required at the border and get back to you on that. We would accept either CND or US cash or a bank draft in either currency. Currently US and CND are almost at par. There is a provincial tax and federal tax in Canada, but because you are out of country I believe you would be exempt of the provincial tax. I believe you would need to pay the Federal tax (5%) but then you can apply for a refund again because you are out of country.I will check both of these to verify. Becuase of the free trade agreement between Canada and the US there should be no tarriffs but there may be US State taxes at the border. The unit has high speed tires but no fenders or lights but it will easily fit into the 5'X10' trailer, it weights around 1500 pounds. Hope this helps. I can touch bases again early next week with the answers on the taxes.
You will have to pay duty at the border crossing you will also need a passport .
To bring a piece of equipment in to Canada there is no duty if the item was made in US , Canada , Mexico , I was under the impression this is a free trade rule and would work both ways (may be it does't), there still may be customs fees, and broker fees if one is used.
Also I would check to see what is required by US for proof of origin and proof of ownership.
I'm the one who started this thread. To date, this thread has had 3246 viewers. There is a lot of interest in an inexpensive firewood processor for home use. Some U.S. manufacture should jump on this and come out with one for around $8500. If a Canadian company can do it, why can't a U.S. company. At $8500, it should sell faster than hot dogs at a ball game.
dON <><
dON
Jump on it. I think you may have a good idea there.
Quote from: beenthere on January 25, 2010, 10:44:26 PM
dON
Jump on it. I think you may have a good idea there.
If I knew a little bit about engineering, and knew how to weld and fabricate, I would !
All it would take is some small welding/fabricating shop to produce an inexpensive processor.
The Canadian firm that produces them has only 3 employees.
dON <><
i have 2 pieces of equipment from canada a small log loader and a 6" wood chipper both are made with thinner steel than usa made counterparts. I haven't had much problems with the chipper but the loader has lots of new steel added and lotsof welds. I made a processor a few yrs ago that at best could do a cord an hr. but ruined both rotator cuffs throwing the split wood onto the 1 ton,a conveyor is a must have.
go to embmfg.com look at the unit that in new product
If that unit is made in Edmundston, it's a 1 hour drive from here. I couldn't honestly give any opinion on the machine and I'm sure there is some design cost involved in fabricating such a thing. However, I can't see where your coming ahead when you are going to wrestle with 8 foot logs. Fine, so it loads them on the bed. And it isn't going to be no smooth loading operation from what I see for loading apparatus. But, what about getting them logs to the processor, what support equipment you using? Did I miss that part in the thread? I see a big novelty piece of equipment personally. Nothing I can't match with chainsaw and my $500 homemade wood splitter my neighbor built. Which ain't no tin weld job btw. Ok, maybe I'm superman. Not every piece needs to be split and a 16" but gets quarter split for my purposes and maybe split two or three more blocks up the log but only half slabs. The rest goes in the pile round. ;) You cutting 16" kitchen stovewood or actual 22" furnace wood? I cut furnace wood. Makes a big difference in the cutting and handling required. Maybe I'm just not seeing what your seeing. :) That being said, my firewood guy does split his wood a little finer. I'm training him, hard to teach an old dog. :D :D Anyway, don't let my ramblings stand in the way. ;)