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log arch build

Started by Revival Sawmill, May 17, 2019, 04:55:00 PM

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Revival Sawmill

I've been felling trees larger than the tractor can safely skid, and I'd like to be able to transport logs, instead of moving the mill, so I decided to try building one of these log arch things.  I think I'll end up needing a flatbed with a DanG ginny crane/winch on it too.  

Here's the progress if you're interested, or just like looking at the pictures  smiley_book2_page  
(I can't claim any credit for the general design, as I 'borrowed' it from a guy who did the same from an older version of a commercial product ?logrite? I think - not sure.)

Beginning of the layout


 



 

Welded the arch part of it



 

Thought I would be clever and straighten some 2x4x0.25" tube steel I had, so I could use it for a light-weight tongue.  Don't do this!  it didn't end well  :-[  No injuries though!  



 

Progress was interrupted for bit.  We got a torrential rainfall, and pretty good flooding considering this is on the side of a hill:



 

That pad is usually 6" up from the dirt.

Lost a big tree



 

Just missed the woodmizer!! (it's hiding under that gray tarp) 




Tree looked perfectly healthy before it went over - no cracks/conchs/etc. 
 

 

not a complete miss - the tips of the branches JUST tagged it.





And this - but I think the mill won that fight!

 



Arch with the spindle pads positioned:

 

 

Oops:



 

Laying out the tongue:






 

 


 

A gratuitous weld pic:


 

The tongue upright, with the hitch ring holder welded on.  I screwed that up a bit, and it's a little off-kilter.  I'll grind the top and bottom welds and hammer it straight later. 



 

Setting up to join the two parts





Success?  The tongue is about 1/32" off from one end to the other, but I should be able to account for that when I weld the spindles on.



 

Bracing, and started the mount for the dog-ears to hold the block for the winch-line



 

Where it stands now



 

I was thinking about a 'strong-back' sort of brace, 



 

but I noticed there is an alarming amount of flex where the tongue goes down to the hitch-  If I put my hand on the upper corner (to the far left in the picture) and wiggle, it moves a an inch or two in either direction.  I'm worried this will cause the welds on this end of the trailer to fail prematurely.


 

So now I'm thinking to do some sort of double-brace thing, with a down rod on either side to see if I can stiffen that part of it up a bit. I'll have to mock-up a log to make sure it doesn't end up with clearance issues.


 

Once I figure that out, I'll weld some chain hooks on it, strip and paint the top, flip it over and weld the spindles on, more paint, tires, etc. 
Let me know if you have a better way to take that wobble out of it, or if it doesn't matter!

Thanks,



doc henderson

WOW!  nice pics.  It seems if you added some heavy side braces like the top one back on the arch, you should be good.  seems hell for stout.  the tongue steers and supports the arch, but most of the weight of the log is centered over the wheels.  unless you pull along and something stops a wheel dead.  change out the small rods with heavy material and keep it high enough so it does not interfere with you log haul.  that is a long tongue and I do not think it has to be rigid. IMHO!   :)   triangle are the greatest!!!  if you need more rigidity, you can "box in the beam"  welding steel to the open parts of the I beam.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Stuart Caruk

Nice job! The fitup and welding are awesome!
Stuart Caruk
Wood-Mizer LX450 Diesel w/ debarker and home brewed extension, live log deck and outfeed rolls. Woodmizer twin blade edger, Barko 450 log loader, Clark 666 Grapple Skidder w/ 200' of mainline. Bobcats and forklifts.

Chuck White

Very nice welding job, and glad your mill came through unscathed!  8)
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: doc henderson on May 17, 2019, 05:17:59 PMIf you need more rigidity, you can "box in the beam" welding steel to the open parts of the I beam.

+1 on that.  Turn the I beam into a box and it will get real stiff in a hurry.  You might want to box the front of the back legs as well.  If a wheel hits a stump or rock, that leg could twist just like you're seeing in the main beam.  Just the front should be enough.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

kelLOGg

Top notch construction! I won't show you mine. ;)
Where in NC are you?
Bob
Cook's MP-32, 20HP, 20' (modified w/ power feed, up/down, loader/turner)
DH kiln, CatClaw setter and sharpener, tandem trailer, log arch, tractor, thumb tacks

RAYAR

Nice log arch build taking shape.
mobile manual mill (custom build) (mods & additions on-going)
Custom built auto band sharpener (currently under mods)
Husqvarna 50, 61, 254XP (and others)
96 Polaris Sportsman 500
2006 Ranger 4X2 w/cap, manual trans (430,000 Km)

luap

I see tall skinny lumber stacks are affected by wind. You welds look good. If you are doing all the cutting with a cut off wheel on that grinder, you are not lacking ambition. But I know we all have to work with what we have. I would consider cutting a 30 deg angle(estimated) in your horizontal beam and eliminate the vertical beam on the hitch. You can also fill in the web of the beam on each side with flat stock for additional stiffness but as said boxing in the beam is better. Is your hitch a ball or pin?

Magicman

Wow Sir, I would suggest that you build a "Golly Whopping" log arch to handle that downed Oak.  :o

Very nice work!  thumbs-up
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Revival Sawmill

Quote from: Stuart Caruk on May 17, 2019, 05:52:16 PM
Nice job! The fitup and welding are awesome!
Thank you!!  Hopefully I can wrap it up in good time and start using it!

Revival Sawmill

Quote from: Chuck White on May 17, 2019, 06:30:08 PM
Very nice welding job, and glad your mill came through unscathed!  8)
Me too!!  
(I've got an eye out for white oak acorns for you this fall - hope it's better than last year!)

Revival Sawmill

Quote from: kelLOGg on May 17, 2019, 07:18:03 PM
Top notch construction! I won't show you mine. ;)
Where in NC are you?
Bob
Haha - I'm always looking for new ideas!  
I'm just outside Crossnore - it's about halfway between Boone and Asheville. 

Revival Sawmill

Quote from: luap on May 18, 2019, 08:23:10 AM
I see tall skinny lumber stacks are affected by wind. You welds look good. If you are doing all the cutting with a cut off wheel on that grinder, you are not lacking ambition. But I know we all have to work with what we have. I would consider cutting a 30 deg angle(estimated) in your horizontal beam and eliminate the vertical beam on the hitch. You can also fill in the web of the beam on each side with flat stock for additional stiffness but as said boxing in the beam is better. Is your hitch a ball or pin?
Thanks!  I used the horizontal bandsaw for the arch pieces, but all the angles on the tongue were too steep to clamp in that - so it was back to the grinder and zip disks.  It's a pintle hitch - I thought that might give me a bit more wiggle room for errors in angles and fitup 

Revival Sawmill

Quote from: doc henderson on May 17, 2019, 05:17:59 PM
WOW!  nice pics.  It seems if you added some heavy side braces like the top one back on the arch, you should be good.  seems hell for stout.  the tongue steers and supports the arch, but most of the weight of the log is centered over the wheels.  unless you pull along and something stops a wheel dead.  change out the small rods with heavy material and keep it high enough so it does not interfere with you log haul.  that is a long tongue and I do not think it has to be rigid. IMHO!   :)   triangle are the greatest!!!  if you need more rigidity, you can "box in the beam"  welding steel to the open parts of the I beam.

Quote from: ljohnsaw on May 17, 2019, 06:58:44 PM
Quote from: doc henderson on May 17, 2019, 05:17:59 PMIf you need more rigidity, you can "box in the beam" welding steel to the open parts of the I beam.

+1 on that.  Turn the I beam into a box and it will get real stiff in a hurry.  You might want to box the front of the back legs as well.  If a wheel hits a stump or rock, that leg could twist just like you're seeing in the main beam.  Just the front should be enough.

I think I've got what  you guys are saying, and it might make a convenient place for the chain hooks too - as in these pictures?

For the tongue:




For the legs of the arch:




Thanks everyone for the kind words/advice/encouragement!

WV Sawmiller

RS,

   Looking real good at this point. What is your prime mover for it? I use my ATV on steep hillsides and I'd never get that monster up in the woods and it would probably be a real wild ride down the slope even without a log on the arch.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Revival Sawmill

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on May 18, 2019, 01:32:38 PM
RS,

   Looking real good at this point. What is your prime mover for it? I use my ATV on steep hillsides and I'd never get that monster up in the woods and it would probably be a real wild ride down the slope even without a log on the arch.

Around the house, I'll probably drag it behind that Massey Ferguson 265; over the road, I'm hoping my pickup will handle it!!

Chuck White

Quote from: Revival Sawmill on May 18, 2019, 12:46:10 PM
Quote from: Chuck White on May 17, 2019, 06:30:08 PM
Very nice welding job, and glad your mill came through unscathed!  8)
Me too!!  
(I've got an eye out for white oak acorns for you this fall - hope it's better than last year!)
Thanks, we just don't have very many White Oak trees in this area, so I've always wanted to get some started for future generations!  At least planting the acorns I could at least see them growing during the years I have left.
Thanks in advance!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Greyman

A box beam has about 400x the torsional stiffness as an I-beam (both 1/4" wall, 4"x4").  Adding tabs like you show will help a little bit, maybe 2x, but nowhere near as stiff as a full box beam.  Adding tabs will also create points with high stress when it does torque.  You would need plates on both sides for the full length to really stiffen it up.  

btulloh

Greyman, does it need to be boxed with 1/4" plate or can it be thinner?
HM126

Greyman

It can be thinner and you won't sacrifice much stiffness.  The big factor is making it a closed section.

Crusarius

pretty nice build. Wow. did you have any bigger steel?

You will need to full box the tongue to get rid of the twisting. you can stitch weld it 1" every 6" it does not need to be full welded. and 1/8" plate will be more than enough.

OffGrid973

Great build...did we order the final color yet, always a good topic of discussion :)
Your Fellow Woodworker,
- Off Grid

Revival Sawmill

I'm getting a price on some 4" bar stock, trying to figure out the best way to do it without going (further) overboard!  I have a 'thing' about tubular steel- seems to always have major rust problems around here, even with weep holes/etc.  Any thoughts on some sort of round stock welded in an X|X|X pattern down either side of the tongue? 

I was planning something bright- safety yellow or fire engine red.  My xyl suggested letting some hippies have a go at it with a few cans of spraypaint- might be interesting, and I'm sure it would be highly visible!

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: Revival Sawmill on May 20, 2019, 08:31:16 PMAny thoughts on some sort of round stock welded in an X|X|X pattern down either side of the tongue?

Hmm, that would be interesting and would work.  Just some 3/8" rod and do a zig-zag down the side.  If you were doing on a 45°, I don't think you'd need to make X's.  MY issue with that is trying to clean it up so you can rust-proof it with paint.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Revival Sawmill

Ospho and spray is the plan for the rest of it; if I can get good coverage on the back of the round rods, it might be OK?

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