Old age and Injury have changed my priorities, EASY starting, LIGHT weight!

[weimedog]

Are the new priorities vs. "bling" brand appeal and power, SO set off to find out of the saws in the current work fleet here on the farm, WHICH is easiest to live with, beginning with which one starts easiest. That is huge now, a few years back it didn't matter. Now it does...SO here are the results displayed in video:

What Will Start Faster? Autotune Husqvarna's? OEM Husqvarna's With Carbs? AM Saws? - YouTube

[Grandpa]

Nice to see someone focusing on what I call the "useability" of a chainsaw instead of worrying about a second or two in the cut.

According to the mechanic, my 562 averages 2 minutes of run time per start. That saw has hundreds of hours on it. That is a lot of starts. If it didn't start good it would have gone down the road a long time ago.

[KEC]

I have hated hard starting pull start motors for years and, especially,  since I went against my father's advice against having too many birthdays. Something that you may want to try with chain saws, mowers and other pull start is to take a hair blow dryer and warm up the head just prior to starting. Beats ripping up your arm and shoulder. I first tried it on a mower that had been sitting all winter; it would not fire even though it was warm outside. I yanked and yanked, then tried the blow dryer and she took off on the next pull.

[petefrom bearswamp]

I would need either a very log cord for the hair dryer or a battery operated one.
I dont like yanking any better than the next guy.
my gas saws start OK but could be better 
The exception is the little Echo cordless I keep at the mill, no yank only just pull the trigger and great for trim work 
Also I dont see any ages on your profiles, I am a certified geezer still doing lots of stuff albeit a lot slower.

[KEC]

Oftentimes, I start a saw up at home in the garage and run it enough to warm it up before heading out; usually re-starts easy. Also, I cut a piece of wood about 16" long X 3" wide and 3/8" thick. Put the saw on the ground, put the end of the board through the saw handle, stand on the board and pull the cord using 2 hands. Just trying to offer ideas. I'm 67 and my wrists and elbow are really giving me a bad time. A thought that just came to me is to get a piece of flex pipe to put over your tractor or truck exhaust and heat up the head on the saw with that; try it ! I have a newer Jonsered 2252, nice little saw, but if you don't get 'er on the first couple of pulls it's tough to start. One of those technological wonders.

[HolmenTree]

Guys,  running a saw like a young man you need good hands. And the best thing for your hands is heated handles, even in the summer.

Last saw I owned with heated handles was a 064 over 30 years ago but today my next new saw (MS462) will be heated.
For the first time I got a heated steering wheel in my new pickup and I would never own  another pickup without it. I can drive 10 hrs straight and that heat is so nice on the hands, no fatigue.

I'm only 60 but I've always worked like a dog since before I was 10 on the farm,
so while on the subject of getting old the only thing that annoys me the most is new customers who don't take this old guy seriously running a tree removal service by himself without employees. :D

[WV Sawmiller]

   I have not investigated the sizes they make them in but if starting is an issue you might check out the Sthil EZ start models which start on the reverse stroke. I don't know if other manufacturers make them or not. You slowly pull the cord which winds inside and when it reaches a point where it is fully wound it releases and starts on the unwind cycle. You don't pull hard or fast - just steady. (There may be a better description but that is it in a nut shell). They make them for women and people with bad backs or shoulder injuries who can't pull hard and fast. My wife bought one and you can start it with 2 fingers. She can't start my MS 440 or 441 but can start hers to cut a limb or small tree off the fence in an emergency.

[Ianab]

You can get a MS 291 with the easystart  system, which is a decent enough firewood saw.

[Al_Smith]

A couple weeks ago I threw my shoulder out starting a Stihl 200T in a tree .A life time of working with my hands above my shoulders has done a number on them .

[Ed]

Been impressed with the 261C, starts quick & easy.

Really love it on a warm start, saw can sit for 1/2 hour, no guessing on choke or not. Give it a tug and start cutting.

Ed

[HolmenTree]

Same here Ed. A separate fast idle position on the switch is not even needed.
I can put  the 261 on full choke position and leave it there for about 30 seconds while the saw warms up then click the trigger to put it in run position.
The CM sure works super efficient.

[PA_Walnut]

Fuel type/quality has a LOT to do with starting. That ethanol gas must have been invented by small engine manufacturers in order to sell more engines...replacements.  >:(

[KEC]

My procedure when buying gas for my small motors:  Select high test/non-ethanol gas at the pump, put the first 2 gallons in my pickup to purge the pump and lines, then fill my cans for chainsaws, mowers , little yard tractor, or boat motor. No exceptions.

[sawdusty1]

My 550xp is the easiest starting saw I own.

[weimedog]

My two 562's are the easiest saws I own and the UOMS with is essentially a 560 IS  the easiest of those and the easiest starting saw short of my 120i I've experienced..

[HolmenTree]

Even when hot after a good workout?
Had my 562 many years and will only start on fast idle every time when warmed up.
550XP was worse.
Good cold weather saws though.

[sawdusty1]

The early 550's had teething problems, but I think they are a good reliable saw now.  I like a saw that spools up fast for limbing.  I can let my saw sit  for an hour and turn the switch on, not fast idle, and it starts with one pull.  I don't even pump the bulb on cold starts, it stays full.  Again, it is the easiest saw to crank that I own.  Sounds like the dealer that you bought your 550 from was a moron.  Stihl and Husqvarna are good saws, but I was raised on Huskies and they have served me well over the years.   

[HolmenTree]

Hey Dusty, read my Official MS261cm versus 550XP Test thread . Lot's of good reading there with a new 550 and 261. ;D

[Al_Smith]

I've found out that while chainsaws much like women are sisters in a manner of speaking but they are not identical twin sisters .With that in mind and not selling short good solid advice they are all  going to be slightly different in the way they act .FWIW I can kind of understand them which differs greatly with the mystery of trying to read a womans mind which is nearly impossible .Ponder that thought 

[weimedog]

I hear all the stuff about the hard starting on 562's...and have to restart on high idle...not mine. All three of mine start within 2 or 3 pulls cold and one pull warm without touching the multi function switch. Here I'll post this yet again for those who need a visual..

Saw Basics: How To Start A Husqvarna 562xp ( Autotune ) & Jonsered cs2260 - YouTube

[HolmenTree]

Even when hot after a good workout?
Had my 562 many years and will only start on fast idle every time when warmed up.
550XP was worse.
Good cold weather saws though.

I hear all the stuff about the hard starting on 562's...and have to restart on high idle...not mine. All three of mine start within 2 or 3 pulls cold and one pull warm without touching the multi function switch. Here I'll post this yet again for those who need a visual..

Saw Basics: How To Start A Husqvarna 562xp ( Autotune ) & Jonsered cs2260 - YouTube

Walter,
You did that demonstration in 17-20F that's way below freezing at 32F/0C.
Those saws were not warmed up sitting there idling in those temps. You didn't even have them switched over to the winter pre heater kits.
They were cold and seeing the blue smoke proved they were still cold.
Like I said in my above quote warmed up after a good workout.
As a matter of fact the warm start was so bad with the 550/562 that Husqvarna had to print the proper procedure in both saws manuals with the fast idle set. Plus purge the warm fuel out of the carb back into the fuel tank with 6 pumps on the primer bulb.
Not good if you just shut the saw off for a minute.

Here's what my 550 and 562 manuals say. Both saws have identical printed instructions.
Yep pretty complicated starting procedures.


 

 

 

 

[weimedog]

Never had any of those issues. A huge difference between online and paper reality and the experiences of folks that have them. There have been a few guys that did have issues so I'm certain Husqvarna has to respond to the worst case scenario's. Been using mine for 3 years now....and they act the same regardless.I have new and old ones. el48's and el46's. So spin all that stuff u want, bottom line is your experience is not mine and I have had plenty of time to run them. And I'm not trying to sell anything. No Official sales pitch, just saying what I've seen and experienced. No more and no less.

Don't want to dump video's all over but I do have plenty from the summer time where they reacted EXACTLY the same way.

[Al_Smith]

Well I don't have a horse in the race nor a dog in this hunt but like I said they are not all twin sisters .  If they were one would could be a sweetheart and the other a fickle teen age prom queen and they both came from the same egg ---so to speak .

[Grandpa]

Al pretty much hit the nail on the head. I have 2 562's. Both are 2014 model year, and both have the el48 carb. One is like Walt describes, the other is like Holmen tree describes.
Makes you wonder how 2 supposedly identical saws can be so different.

[ZeroJunk]

I pulled out my old flat top 066 Thanksgiving Day to get a tree off of my Grandmas old house.  Pulling the rope is not the big deal but the kick back is just awful. I got it going and used it for what I needed. But, I think I will sell it and maybe get a MS661.

I have had several 056 Mag II's, several MS660's, even a 2101XP, but I have never had a saw as mean as this one.

Or, as the OP says, I'm just old.

[John Mc]

I pulled out my old flat top 066 Thanksgiving Day to get a tree off of my Grandmas old house.  Pulling the rope is not the big deal but the kick back is just awful. I got it going and used it for what I needed. But, I think I will sell it and maybe get a MS661.

I have had several 056 Mag II's, several MS660's, even a 2101XP, but I have never had a saw as mean as this one.

Or, as the OP says, I'm just old.

What are you cutting that necessitates the power (and the weight) of a 661?
If you really need a high powered saw, but could get by with a bit less, wait for the Stihl 462 to become available in the US. It's something like 3 pounds lighter than the 661, and still about 6 HP.

[Greyhound]

For the least effort on the pull, there is the Stihl Easy2Start and Echo i-30 systems that have a spring assisted pull start.  For least # of pulls then AutoTune or Mtronics are good.

[HolmenTree]

You can't find an easier starting saw if it has a decompression valve button, no matter how big it is.

But if it's still a feat, then follow the owners manual instructions.
Saw on ground ,  chain brake on , foot in or on rear handle....

Only easier route is a battery saw.

[lxskllr]

I always do the first start on the ground. After it's warm I'll drop start it. Feels easier to control.

[Al_Smith]

On those mule kickers the easiest way to save your fingers is to install a Stihl 460 rescue saw D-handle .They are less than 10 bucks at a dealer .
Some complain the handle gets in their way but it really does not .As far as I'm concerned it's the best D-handle on the market .I have one on a 2100 Husqvarna ,Stihl 084 and a souped up Stihl 038 Magnum 

[ZeroJunk]

I pulled out my old flat top 066 Thanksgiving Day to get a tree off of my Grandmas old house.  Pulling the rope is not the big deal but the kick back is just awful. I got it going and used it for what I needed. But, I think I will sell it and maybe get a MS661.

I have had several 056 Mag II's, several MS660's, even a 2101XP, but I have never had a saw as mean as this one.

Or, as the OP says, I'm just old.

What are you cutting that necessitates the power (and the weight) of a 661?
If you really need a high powered saw, but could get by with a bit less, wait for the Stihl 462 to become available in the US. It's something like 3 pounds lighter than the 661, and still about 6 HP.

This farm was logged in 1960 and they left the oaks that were in fence lines and around the old home place. When they die or get blown over I usually try to save the fire wood.

[ZeroJunk]

You can't find an easier starting saw if it has a decompression valve button, no matter how big it is.

But if it's still a feat, then follow the owners manual instructions.
Saw on ground ,  chain brake on , foot in or on rear handle....

Only easier route is a battery saw.

The decomp does not help that much. The saw fires and kicks the decomp out before it gets to the top of the stroke, jerks it out of your hand just the same. It's possible that the timing of the ignition has changed a little over time, although unless the flywheel has moved I don't see how it could change much.
I sold a flat top 066 that didn't have the decomp and got this one thinking it would solve the problem, but it doesn't.
It's just a dumb coil firing 25 or more degrees BDTC. Not much to do about it except be younger and stronger.

[John Mc]

I pulled out my old flat top 066 Thanksgiving Day to get a tree off of my Grandmas old house.  Pulling the rope is not the big deal but the kick back is just awful. I got it going and used it for what I needed. But, I think I will sell it and maybe get a MS661.

I have had several 056 Mag II's, several MS660's, even a 2101XP, but I have never had a saw as mean as this one.

Or, as the OP says, I'm just old.

What are you cutting that necessitates the power (and the weight) of a 661?
If you really need a high powered saw, but could get by with a bit less, wait for the Stihl 462 to become available in the US. It's something like 3 pounds lighter than the 661, and still about 6 HP.

This farm was logged in 1960 and they left the oaks that were in fence lines and around the old home place. When they die or get blown over I usually try to save the fire wood.

OK, now I get it. Glad you parked the truck next to it for scale.

[Inaotherlife]

That sure is a small pickup truck.

[teakwood]

The decomp does not help that much. The saw fires and kicks the decomp out before it gets to the top of the stroke, jerks it out of your hand just the same. It's possible that the timing of the ignition has changed a little over time, although unless the flywheel has moved I don't see how it could change much. I sold a flat top 066 that didn't have the decomp and got this one thinking it would solve the problem, but it doesn't. It's just a dumb coil firing 25 or more degrees BDTC. Not much to do about it except be younger and stronger.

My 066 does exactly the same! 

[HolmenTree]

I never noticed on my two 066's. One with and other without decomp. I guess I should try the decomp button :D

[Al_Smith]

I only had one close the decomp on me and it scared me to death .Old McCulloch sp 81 I'd enhanced a little which like a moron I drop started .Closed the decomp and fired and walked the rope .If it would have started it could have cut my arm off ---never-never ever again .

[teakwood]

I guess I should try the decomp button

Willard, at your age you should always use the decomp button!  

[ladylake]

 If you really want a light weight easy starting, great handling saw get a Echo Cs400 off Ebay  for around $230 or when the dealers are running their 20% off sale for $240/ Pull the limiter caps and tune good and open up the clogged up muffler.  Everyone loves these saws with that done to them.  I have around 30 to 40 saws all brand and I could only have one the CS400 would be it.  Steve

[weimedog]

My "Old Man Saw Build", Basically a blend of parts that ends up being a Husqvarna 560xp with a popup piston....Easiest starting saw I own short of the 120i. Hot or Cold. Makes No difference. A Husqvarna 560 is the same as a Jonsered cs2260 mechanically BTW

Building A Husqvarna 560xp? or Ultimate Old Man Saw! ( Husqvarna 120i Cameo?) - YouTube

[Hilltop366]

I was looking for a small saw a while back for something to limb larger trees and cut and limb smaller trees to compliment the 361 I have.  I looked at the pro saws but was resistant to drop that much money on one knowing it will not get a lot of use. I looked at the Echo but the local dealer had no small ones and was not planning to stock any because a building supply chain was suppose to be taking them on and he figured he he would not be able to compete on price. After several months I gave up and ended up getting a Makita EA3601 on line. For under 400 Canadian taxes and delivered, although it is a bit smaller in cc's it was almost ½ the price of the pro saws and appears to be well built with vertical split magnesium engine case fully adjustable carb. I have only put a few tanks through it but it seems to work well so far and is super easy to start. I'll access the cutting to be done before I grab a saw hoping that the Makita will fit the bill.

I will add that the single kill switch/choke is push up for choke and down for off like it should be, (like the rest of the world) but I am finally getting use to up for off on the 361 so ½ the time when I shut off the Makita I apply the choke. :

[weimedog]

For some reason neither Echo or Dolmar do well in this area. The Cutting Edge 4 hours east of here is one of the best dealers of any brand and they do well in a similar economy and with similar types of tree's. The Echo dealers seem to show up, and then disappear. The one that is open never has any inventory, an "order only" place. They sell Dolmar / Makita too.....same deal. And I have never seen a one come through the shops that I do work for or my place...for the under $400 dollars saws is all the plastic Stihl's and Husqvarna's. If I were a true business I would focus more on the orange and white as I turn down as much of that work as I take on with the older Stihls and Husqvarna's. The ones with a "1" on the end of their model number. Funny thing for me is the OLDER Stihl's like the 290's and that era.....and the Husqverna 455's too. Those plastic saw come when they either have been crushed, straight gased, or water in the fuel. That older set of saws were bullet proof. Both brands. But especially those older Stihl's with the rubber hockey pucks for antivib's. And probably why none of the other "price" point saws took hold, as most would rather have a used old Stihl than a new price point saw. AND we have a Tractor Supply & Lowes that eat up the rest of the low cost market here. So...no "Echo's" in these hills.

But to the Echo's and Dolmars....Why is that? Tempted to grab a couple off eBay and pick them over. I like the concept of those smaller Dolmar/Makita's anyway. Who knows. Might get my hands on some. I did get an EFCO, a while back, older design but a really nice saw. And the one that wasn't a clam shell was real easy to perk up. Underrated saws for certain.

[HolmenTree]

I guess I should try the decomp button

Willard, at your age you should always use the decomp button!

I still got some kick in me ;D

I can't bench press 3 plates (315 lbs) for reps anymore  but on a good day I can still squeeze out 1 rep.

[ZeroJunk]

I guess I should try the decomp button

Willard, at your age you should always use the decomp button!

I still got some kick in me ;D

I can't bench press 3 plates (315 lbs) for repetition anymore  but on a good day I can still squeeze out 1.

I sold that saw to a big old boy with the understanding that it had a mean kick back. He started it at my house easy as pie and then called me later saying that it ripped the handle out of his hands like five times in a row. Called back a little later and said the key was sheared. Makes me feel a lot stupid, but after reading so much about the kick back I just thought it was the nature of the beast.  I should have looked.

[weimedog]

How about 2094's.....that's a saw that needs a decomp. But also a saw that doesn't fit the old man anymore, at least no this one.

[weimedog]

I guess I should try the decomp button

Willard, at your age you should always use the decomp button!

I still got some kick in me ;D

I can't bench press 3 plates (315 lbs) for repetition anymore  but on a good day I can still squeeze out 1.

There is a song about folks like that..
Toby Keith - As Good As I Once Was - YouTube

[Al_Smith]

When my daughter was VP of media productions for a large US bank she did a benefit with Toby K in I think Detroit ..

[Beachcomber]

This is a great thread!

I get chronic Tennis elbow. Pull starts flare it up before I even start cutting.

I have an MS211 and it has Easy start and a great thing to have on a saw.  Great to start after fighting with something that's a pig. I was running a nasty old lawnmower this year and it was terrible to start and put my tennis elbow back years.

I was wondering, has anyone modded their chainsaw so you could start it with an impact driver? I saw people using electric drills on youtube on lawnmowers etc, but an impact driver would be as good if not better.

What about chains? I know there is loads talked about chains but does anyone have an opinion on what is the best chain in terms of smoothness / low vibration when cutting but not a safety chain?

I am considering a narrow kerf chain for my 436XPG. Are these smoother than a regular kerf, and is semi-chisel smoother than full chisel?

[John Mc]

I was wondering, has anyone modded their chainsaw so you could start it with an impact driver? I saw people using electric drills on youtube on lawnmowers etc, but an impact driver would be as good if not better.

I would use a screwdriver/drill, rather than an impact driver. I'd be a bit concerned about what the impact action would do to the saw's internals. I could swear I saw a thread either here somewhere about someone who was working on an electric start.  If you do it, you need to make sure it has some sort of over-running clutch, or drives through the existing starting mechanism, so once the saw starts running, the drill is not directly connected to the spinning crankshaft.

[weimedog]

I was wondering, has anyone modded their chainsaw so you could start it with an impact driver? I saw people using electric drills on youtube on lawnmowers etc, but an impact driver would be as good if not better.

I would use a screwdriver/drill, rather than an impact driver. I'd be a bit concerned about what the impact action would do to the saw's internals. I could swear I saw a thread either here somewhere about someone who was working on an electric start.  If you do it, you need to make sure it has some sort of over-running clutch, or drives through the existing starting mechanism, so once the saw starts running, the drill is not directly connected to the spinning crankshaft.

McCulloch,  they had a saw that was e-start back in the day.. Of course then you had to carry that pig around!

McCulloch 3-10 E , electric start chainsaw - YouTube

[47sawdust]

I've got a little Dolmar 42 that is an impressive starter and performer.I also have a 26 year old 2163 Jonsered that does the same.The Dolmar is the one I grab first only because it is light.The old Jonsered has been a dependable saw and if it ever dies I will get a similar sized Dolmar.I am 71 and these saws treat me well and vice/versa.

[sawguy21]

The flywheel nut is right hand thread so a drill or nut driver would just spin it off. Maybe somebody could design something that would attach a starter pulley to the drill.

[weimedog]

The flywheel nut is right hand thread so a drill or nut driver would just spin it off. Maybe somebody could design something that would attach a starter pulley to the drill.

Like the race car's.. Might be a fun project for the machine shop...

[Al_Smith]

Well I tried the drill motor kick on a 5.8 cubic inch engine on a gear drive Craftsman saw .It worked once or twice---and then  it spit the flywheel off .Which orbited my garage several times ,made be take cover and barely missed my wifes Cadillac automobile.That could turned out very badly .I'd imagine I would have got the hot tongue cold shoulder treatment for quite a while had it gone bad .-------don't do it ----

[upnut]

I went with the smallest Stihl that came with a decomp button, the 241CM, and have been very pleased. Not the lightest, but the balance and pro anti-vibe system make it a joy to run. Starting is a breeze....

Scott B.

[wild262]

    That 241 would be my pick as well in the Stihl line.  But my Oregon 40V starts even easier :D.  Lol. And I use it more now for limbing small trees until the battery goes dead.   After that I use my new Echo 361P which is a dream to run as well.   And Weimedog I agree with you on the 2094 needing a compression valve, as I have had some that didn't.   My current "and last" one however does, which I am very greatfull.

[sawguy21]

Well I tried the drill motor kick on a 5.8 cubic inch engine on a gear drive Craftsman saw .It worked once or twice---and then  it spit the flywheel off .Which orbited my garage several times ,made be take cover and barely missed my wifes Cadillac automobile.That could turned out very badly .I'd imagine I would have got the hot tongue cold shoulder treatment for quite a while had it gone bad .-------don't do it ----

:D :D :D I had a Homelite clutch do that.

[HolmenTree]

I was at a chainsaw race once where one of the guys Mac 101 clutch exploded at about 20,000 rpm. It buried itself in the ground right by my foot.
That would have hurt and alot of people around me thought the same thing. :laugh:

[Al_Smith]

I rolled the clutch off I think a Mac from dead sticking it after a rebuild with no bar and chain .Went down my driveway a good length . I also rolled the string head off a weed wacker and it might have made it to Lake Erie at about 100 miles per hour .Movin on --zoom