Video of WM manual toe board and turner??

[Brad_bb]

I'm having trouble finding much online besides some vague pics of the manual toeboards and manual log turner that is apparently available on the LT28 manual and maybe LT40 manual mill?  I would prefer to see one in person, but no telling if WM in Indy will have one on display (unlikely).   The manual log turner somehow uses a manual winch but I'd like to see how this works.  The manual toe boards apparently don't look like the conventional roller type and use a crank from the operator side. 

Does anyone have any video of either of these or know where there is video?  WM's LT28 video doesn't really show how they are used.  Thanks.

[47sawdust]

Brad bb,
I can't help with the video but if you want a set of manual toeboards you can have mine for the shipping cost.They were removed from my LT30 last fall  when I installed hydraulic toe rollers.I found it easier to lift the log and put a shim under it than to use the toeboards.As for the log turner,I removed the hand winch and installed a 3700# Warn winch.It works great.
In all honesty the manual toeboards are slow and do not work well on small logs.

[trapper]

I have a lt 30 with manual toe boards. Manual winch log turner and log loading ramps. If you want to take a road trip you can play with them.  200 mi

[Brad_bb]

That's why I want to see how these things work.  It does not bode well that you guys are not enthusiastic about them and looking to dump them.

[fishfighter]

That's why I want to see how these things work.  It does not bode well that you guys are not enthusiastic about them and looking to dump them.

I was looking to add them to my mill, but as you said not enthusiastic has got me wondering too. More so on the toe boards.

[47sawdust]

Glad you see my lack of enthusiasm for the manual toeboards.On the other hand adding the hyd. toe rollers has been a major help to me.Repositioning a log,adjusting for taper,and rolling cants off the mill are easily done.All the parts for mine came from WM.It is somewhat involved,source of power,hyd. powerpack etc.
I don't know how you would do it on the Lt15.Forum member Elk42 has a pretty tricked out Lt15.You might check his gallery.
Best of luck,it's good to have a puzzle to figure out.You do a lot of nice work with that Lt15,no reason not to modify it to make it even more user friendly.

[Bill Gaiche]

You can build your own toe board. They aren't that complicated. Mine operates off of a boat type winch and has been an asset versus a shim method. This is the only photo I have. I can take more if you are interested.
bg



 

[azmtnman]

Wood Mizer used to have a video on their website. I can't find it there or on YouTube now. They call it the "log deck package."

[Jemclimber]

I'm interested Bill, and curious about what the springs are for as well?

[Bill Gaiche]

its late here now. I will get some tomorrow. bg

[scully]

Tow boards / rollers on a 15 don't seem that hard .  Just call your back yard welder friend . Prety simple to ad if your mill is set up right .

[carykong]

Brad, I have the manual log deck package on my lt27. Works great. Speed is not the purpose of this set up yet it does allow a solo operator to manage the large diameters and long tapers
I will post a video tomorrow

[fishfighter]

I'm interested Bill, and curious about what the springs are for as well?

I'm sure the spring pulls down the toe board when letting off the winch. Kind of what I was planning on building.

[D6c]

I've been looking into adding a log turner to an older LT40 and have run into the same problem of finding detailed info.
I did get Woodmizer to send an installation sheet on the log deck package.  (I'll attach it if I can get it to work)

I found this video of a manual turner modified with a 12v winch, which looks like it works pretty well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNHVKl11SIU
The guy I talked with at woodmizer told me that the manual cable winch used on the turner is Very slow and didn't know if I'd be happy with it.


I recently visited a local Lt28 hydraulic owner and looked over his machine to see how it was put together.  It has a similar style turner as the log deck package...just with hydraulics.  From what woodmizer tells me the hyd. unit won't fit my old Lt40 but from what I see I think it could be modified to work....the hyd. turner wasn't much more $ than the manual unit (not incl. cylinder, hoses, valves, etc)

What I would like to do is:
* modify and add a hyd. turner
* build a hyd log loader
* add on or build hyd side stops (the vertical style if possible....if not, the swinging arm style)
* build a hyd log clamp
* and maybe build hyd toe boards.

For my use I think I'd look for a stand-alone electric driven hyd power unit and six valves

This would be getting into quite a bit of work, and it's questionable if it's worth doing....or just trade mills.

[Chuck White]

The mods listed would require quite a few $$$$$$$$, might be a better option to trade up if you could swing it!

[Magicman]

When my toe boards will not reach the log's end, it is a simple matter to lift it with a cant hook and slip a short board underneath.  I did it a few times this week.

[carykong]

Here ya go Brad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSm8r5Lyy_M

[D6c]

The mods listed would require quite a few $$$$$$$$, might be a better option to trade up if you could swing it!

Likely end up with a compromise for just that reason....maybe purchase the log turner, and side stop parts and modify them to fit.  I can build a log lift from scratch without too much trouble and maybe find used/surplus hyd. parts.

[Treehack]

If you use a scissor jack from an old car as a toeboard, you must be a redneck.


I'm sure Matt and the boys at Timber King could do me better, but this is my budget right now.  :D

[Darrel]

Hey treehack, it works and if it's in your budget, that's just icing on the cake!

[Brucer]

The guy I talked with at woodmizer told me that the manual cable winch used on the turner is Very slow and didn't know if I'd be happy with it.

My 2005 manual LT40 had a two speed winch. It used a two stage gearing system and you could snap the handle onto either one of the two shafts. One guy I talked to at WM when I bought the mill didn't realize there were two speeds.

The turning was a little slow -- on really small logs I'd just use a cant hook.

My biggest gripe with the manual mill was having to always walk around to the "far side" of the mill to operate the clamp.

[Kbeitz]

Guess I'm a redneck....



 

[Magicman]

But a very innovative redneck Kb.   

[Kbeitz]

Thanks MM

[trapper]

I cut 2 slots in a socket to fit on the winch where the handle fits and use a half inch electric drill to turn it.

[4x4American]

Brad aren't you setup inside a concrete shop?  If that was the case for me I would just put some dunnage underneath the sawmill on each end where you're going to want the toeboards and just use a bottle jack but weld on a U shaped lift point so that it don't slip off.  Then just switch it to where you need it.  As for a turner, you could put a gantry crane over your sawmill and have a hook on the end to wrap around.  Idk if this would be worthwhile but if you want to save your back I could see it being.  At that point if you put a gantry overhead you wouldn't need toeboards just lift whatever end of the log and put dunnage under it.  My neighbor put a gantry in his garage for cheap.  An old I beam at the scrap yard, some posts and a harbor freight trolley winch.

[Dakota]

Here's a pretty good solution.  I didn't build this, just thought it was an easy build for someone.



 

[paul case]

Brad aren't you setup inside a concrete shop?  If that was the case for me I would just put some dunnage underneath the sawmill on each end where you're going to want the toeboards and just use a bottle jack but weld on a U shaped lift point so that it don't slip off.  Then just switch it to where you need it. 

Good point. I should say that the sawmill that I did this to....


 
Had 4 clamps so I always put the clamp on the big end to keep the log from rolling off the jack. A free rolling log can get you hurt in a hurry. I dont want to read about anyone here being killed or maimed by a careless mistake.
I also used a engine hoist to turn logs on a circle mill I had. I dont have any pics of it but I simply put it behind my carrriage(log deck on a band mill) and had a hook from a cant hook on a chain to hook under the log some and as I jacked the engine hoist up it turned the log. It would turn some bigguns too. Really cost effective and anyone could do that. It would not take up too much room behind the mill and you could lift it above the head if you didnt have room to roll it away.

PC

[Brad_bb]

Thanks for the video carykong!!! 

I am inside on concrete, but I don't want bottle jacks and dunnage which would make it even more difficult cleaning up.  We keep our saw dust and planing chips swept up as the chips can pile up quick.  I'm looking for a more elegant solution.  The ideal toe board for me would be a pivoting toe board with a rotary actuator (electric).  with the weight of logs and turning, I definitely would not want to be using the building structure. A 35+ year old pole barn is not designed for that.  I'm going to be changing buildings in a couple years too.  A turner mounted on the mill would again be more elegant and compact solution.   

[Magicman]

    _grin smiley_gorgeous

     Elegant. 

[paul case]

At my place Elegant and sawing wood go together like a tap dancer in the turnip patch, New saying.

I applaud you for wanting to keep it nice and tidy. ;)

PC

[4x4American]

You don't need to use the building structure.  You could fabricate a movable gantry on casters, or buy one for that matter.  I liked Paul's engine hoist too.  It was just a thought, wasn't sure how desperate you were.  Elegant and cheap two different things.


Have you thought about using pneumatic rams?  Shop air would be easy enough to plumb in, wouldn't have to worry about all the intricacies that hydraulics brings. 

[D6c]

 

  

  This is what I did for now....modified trailer jack on a sliding rail.

[47sawdust]

D6c,
That must be an older Mizer.I like the add on bunks,very elegant.The toeboard is great as well,but once I got down there I might not get back up.

[D6c]

D6c,
That must be an older Mizer.I like the add on bunks,very elegant.The toeboard is great as well,but once I got down there I might not get back up.

It's an '87 manual LT40 (does have power feed)...less than 200 hrs on it.  I added the risers so it would saw down to 1"....originally you couldn't saw much less than 2"

[Slingshot]

  That is me in the video that D6c posted earlier turning a log with 12volt winch.
That is a 3700 Warn winch and worked great.
  Here are parts of another video showing me using the electric winch to par-buckle
a large poplar from a trailer onto the mill and then, after re-attaching the cable
to the claw turner, turning the log and turning three 6inch thick slabs up-right to mill
into 2X6's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKCcCxLLVWw&feature=youtu.be



_______________________________
Charles

[bags]

I do the redneck thing too. I have a scissor jack mounted on the HM130 for a toe board. I have a socket attached and operate it with a 20V Dewalt drill--- power up, power down--- slicker than the slime on a girl frogs a$$ (old say'in).

[Brad_bb]

I am a degreed Mechanical Engineer.  I was raised on the farm, built and fixed lots of stuff growing up.  I was the only one in my engineering class who could weld and fabricate and rebuilt an engine in the dorm parking lot in a day(which would not have been allowed if I got caught).  So I know the difference between a design that is functional and gets the primary job done, and a design that is elegant- gets the job done cleanly, efficiently, and looks good doing it.   ;D

[Magicman]

And also be on the receiving end of a bit of elegant ribbing.  :D

A thing of beauty is a joy forever.  (old saying)  Pride and satisfaction in our work is sometimes the only reward that we get.

[4x4American]

Well then post what you come up with, don't need this dummies advice

[kensfarm]

I used a scissor jack for a while..  but it bit the dust on the heavy logs.. bent out of shape.  It will be interesting to see what you design. 

[Brad_bb]

Well then post what you come up with, don't need this dummies advice

The trade off is that I may not be fast.  Just ask the guys that waited for me to CSM that locust log.  All advice welcome.  You never know where the spark for the best idea will come from.  ;D

[47sawdust]

 Given your background I'm sure you will come up with the right solution to fit your needs.Personally I like understated elegance in any design.It just means walking around the project many times until the "aha" moment comes.Sometimes it never comes and sometimes I'm guilty of overthinking the DanG thing and kicking myself in the keyster for being such a dope.
The LT15 frame certainly lends itself to home brew mods. I'm not familiar with linear actuators,but a stand alone electric hyd.powerpack  seems like a good start.MSG sawmills were designed by an aircraft engineer for Boeing.You might find some inspiration there.He used a lot of the L/A technology.I believe I saw an article in a back issue of Sawmill & woodlot about the MSG mill.
Best of luck

[Brad_bb]

I mentioned rotary actuator, but a linear actuator could be used as well.  My first job out of school was designing rotary actuators for aircraft(fly by wire), which eliminated the hydraulics.

[Darrel]

I understand elegance and functionality. There have been many ideas posted on this thread that are quite functional, some of them more elegant than others. So you take a bottle jack or a floor jack and attach it to the frame of the LT15 and voila, a hydraulic toe board. But what is it that keeps this very functional toe board from being elegant?

Actuation. The human actuator has to go actuate the toe board costing the operation both time and money. Wood-Mizer has done a good job when it comes to elegance of design. And as discussed earlier in this thread, the manual mills don't hit the mark quite as well as the hydraulic mills.

Aesthetics. There's a reason why Wood-Mizer doesn't put bottle jack toe boards on their mills. They would look like they were right out of Red Green's work shop.

Ease of use. Here in is the lack of elegance in the design of the manual mills.

So anyway, m2¢w

[Brad_bb]

So you take a bottle jack or a floor jack and attach it to the frame of the LT15 and voila, a hydraulic toe board. But what is it that keeps this very functional toe board from being elegant?

1. If sitting on the floor or dunnage, it gets in the way of sweeping up the pile of dust and chips under the mill. 2. Bottle jacks in my experience are strong, but slow.  They only move a small amount with each pump.  The pump handle also need to be used from the operator's side.  There may or may not be enough room to get the handle in and use the full stroke.  If not, that would not be elegant. 

I'd rather have a toggle switch mounted on the mill near the front end so I can hold the tape measure with one hand and the toggle with the other to move the log end up and down til I'm satisfied. That would be elegant.

Don't worry, I can take the ribbing guys.  Where I'm from, busting on your friends is a sign of acceptance.

[btulloh]

I'm working on an elegant design too. while that is backed up in r&d and fabrication I'm using this plus a little scissor jack. total of forty bucks and 15 minutes invested. better than wedges, not quite as good as the elegant solution that's coming.  takes about 2 minutes to level a log.



 

[Darrel]

1. If sitting on the floor or dunnage, it gets in the way of sweeping up the pile of dust and chips under the mill. 2. Bottle jacks in my experience are strong, but slow.  They only move a small amount with each pump.  The pump handle also need to be used from the operator's side.  There may or may not be enough room to get the handle in and use the full stroke.  If not, that would not be elegant. 

I'd rather have a toggle switch mounted on the mill near the front end so I can hold the tape measure with one hand and the toggle with the other to move the log end up and down til I'm satisfied. That would be elegant.

Yup!

[plowboyswr]

You might want to take a closer look at Slingshot's set up on his lt30. 1 winch to run the turner and the toe board would work, you never use them at the same time. Just unhook off of one to use the other you wouldn't forget and leave the toe boards up when turning. Get a winch with a wireless remote then it could be operated from anywhere. Yellowhammer had a winch operated claw turner on his 15, has some pictures in his gallery of it. Pineywoods has some very good plans on the turner in his Homemade Hydraulics thread. Lots of good inspiration from all three of those. 

[Ga Mtn Man]

FF member Larry built these years ago for his old Kasco mill.  They were winch-actuated but look like they could easily be adapted to another form of power.



 

 

 



 



 




 

 

 

[Brad_bb]

Ga Mtn Man,
That is what a toe board should look like.  Gotta have bearings rated at the proper load. 

What do you think the load on a toe board should be figured at?  What I mean is, what weight of log on the roller should you account for in design? Plus margin of safety?  1500 lb?  so 750 per bearing?

[Ga Mtn Man]

I'm just a picture poster, someone else will have to weigh in on that question.  Know any makanikul injunears?

[47sawdust]

When I had my KascoIIB I made a set of toe rollers like that.They worked great.We turned bushings out of UHMW plastic,inserted into schedule 40 pipe with 3/4'' cold rolled rod through the center.Backwoods engineering did the calculations and we were in business.

[4x4American]

I think 3500lbs total capacity per toeboard at min, for my application.  Because my loader is rated fir 5k lbs, and I want at least half of that plus safety factor.  You have a different mill.

[Darrel]

I've had a 5,000 pound black oak log on my mill so I'm saying 4x4 is not too far off in his estimation.  3,500 lbs per end would give the safety factor needed.