Making it through another year, '23-'24

[Old Greenhorn]

Speaking of joint choices, I just happened on this video, which is a little long but I got sucked in and learned some interesting stuff. It's well done and reveals some surprising stuff.

This Simple Joint is Stronger Than a Dovetail! - YouTube

[firefighter ontheside]

Tom, in routing parts, are you routing end grain first and then routing the long grain sides.  This can often eliminate chip out on the final product.  When I make sleds, I basically use the Ng five cut method to make fence square to the blade.  It works pretty well.  That being said, I only really use the sled to cut shelves and perfect squareness is not important.  For that I use my Incra miter gauge.

[Old Greenhorn]

Well I like the sled for a variety of reasons particularly with small parts and being able to set up easy stops on the back fence.
I had not heard of this 5 cut method until now and I looked it up and found a good video on it. Good enough to share for others reference:

5 Cuts to a "Perfect" Cross-Cut Sled - YouTube

So now I guess I will start over making another sled the right way. :D But I am through cutting these hundreds of parts for this current job, now getting into the assembly stages. Today I feel like I have run about a mile of linear wood through the table router doing all the edges. Yes, I do the end grains first, but this ERC can be so friable, that the only way to really avoid that little splintering out is to have a backer block on it, so I use the backer on all cuts. Then I have the wood defects issues that ERC can be full of, like tiny knots that fall out or chip off edges, etc. So I do a lot of fixing with epoxy on some of the parts.
I work on everything in rotation or I will go nuts. I route a couple of part groups for one profile, go and sand a couple of other parts groups, Maybe cut some makeup pieces, sand epoxy on the repaired parts and at the end of the day I mix a little epoxy and do some pours on still more parts. Now I am also gluing some box sides together but that is tedious, then those have to be sanded the next day. So I'll continue this rotation up until I run out of parts to cut, sand, route, glue, sand more, then finish. It will be a few weeks I think.
Bill just brought back the cleaned and painted frame work for the double drum sander he got last year. So to break up my days, I'll be making parts and putting that back together. I hope I can remember where all the parts go. ;D I also hope I can find all the parts, I have them stowed all over the shop, upstairs and down.  :D  ;D First order of business is the make a new platen and order a new feed belt for it. I'm thinking I had better remount that motor in the frame before I do anything else because it weighs about 150 pounds and I don't want to have to snake that thing in after I begin assembly.
Tomorrow is another day.

[Larry]

Interesting video about joint strength.



He made a interesting comment beginning at 13:36 about miter joint longevity which I truly think is accurate.

[21incher]

I just saw a really nice idea for cremation urns on the TV.  They took about a 3 1/2 to 4 inch slab chunk of wood less then 12 x 12. Random shapes were cut and edges rounded. Then about  a 3 inch diameter hole was drilled just shy of the bottom for the ashes. The holes were sized to hold a small succulent in a pot. Really beautiful and looked like art to hold a plant and  not a urn.

[21incher]

Here's something  similar for people I found that splits. https://oaktreememorials.com/products/the-casey-plant-urn-in-walnut-sycamore

[Old Greenhorn]

Larry, I went back to listen to that part again and wholly agree, longevity just takes time to watch and see. I would like to try those little inserts you use on the 45 but my box wood is only 1/4" thick, so that insert would be mighty tiny. Maybe if I make some bigger ones for other purposes I will give that a try. I like the look.

As for the urns I am making, I wasn't really looking for new design ideas. I make these for a client's request and this is what he wants. Still I could look into other designs but I have to stay within the specs of a certain amount of cubic inch capacity. So I would have to do some figuring to make sure I am within that spec.

Box work, none the less continues. Having most of the parts finished I have begun gluing up the sides. The last run on these was a work in progress and I made some choices that were best not repeated and took extra time. I didn't bore the pockets and put my little ID coins in the bottoms until they were nearly done. Big mistake and a PITA. So I spent the better part of a day just doing that on all the bottoms. I had them spread on every flat surface in the shop drying.



 

Yeah, everywhere:



 

Then the next day I started gluing boxes and removing the tape from previous glued boxes and sanding inside and out. Last time I had glued the bottoms on before sanding and that was a mistake, sanding the inside to a blind bottom was a real PITA so now I just do all the sanding before I glue the bottoms on, MUCH faster. I just glue the sides and set them on a bottom to maintain squareness while the glue sets up.



 

It's tedious doing the glueup with the taping and such, so I do a few a day in between the sanding tasks. I have time and I work all day anyway just jumping between stages and jobs. I lost track of time today and it was 5:30 before I realized the time.

Some time in between doing the box steps (see what I did there?) I switched over and spent some time on the drum sander rebuild. I figure out how to get that motor back in there and did that, then spent about 1/2 hour trying to figure out where the drive motor was mounted. ;D Guess I should have taken more photos? :D



 

DANG! that motor was heavy! I am just getting into it and tomorrow I will likely setup and cut the piece I will make the new platten out of. I need a box of screws, so if Bill doesn't order them I'll pick them up when I do my run to town tomorrow. I have a few parts I am trying to figure out where they go. ;D But I am quite sure I will get it all straight. I am a professional after all. :D

Tomorrow is another day.

[Nebraska]

Boxes look good from here. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Yeah, the box work will continue for a few weeks. It's tedious and I am picky, so I glue a few a day, sand a few a day, and soon will begin finishing a few a day. I thought I would start that today because my flocking kits arrived yesterday and I am anxious to try them out, but...
I started working on the machine first (late) this morning and just got into what I was doing and getting frustrated and working through it and pushing on. A few times I really had to have another pair of hands and even texted Bill to stop by and help when he drove by, but by the time he responded I had it done and had moved on.
Yesterday I did a couple of hours of box work first and then I made the new platen and attached all the hardware and frame. I wasted some time at the end of the day measuring and remeasuring the old conveyor belt then the size on the platen with the rollers on and was having a hard time parsing out what I measured on the belt against what I was measuring on the platen. Also time spent (or wasted) looking up available belts. I could not get the measurements to resolve and decided not to order a belt yet until I figured it out.
Overnight after I thought on it for a couple of hours I decided to put the old belt on and 'enhance my level of knowledge' in the process. Now changing that belt means complete machine disassembly, so doing it twice means about 6 hours extra work. It's not a fun job.
So today I put all the rest of the stuff on the platen assembly and lowered that into the main frame. I hooked up the chain system to adjust the platen elevations and had some issues with that. Probably should have bought all new chain for these drives, but oh well. I had a devil of a time getting the conveyor motor mounted with the drive chain on it. That chain seems to have stretch and will need replacing. I'll likely order that tomorrow. I did finally get that motor up and the chain tensioned stuck a 110v plug directly on the gear motor so I could just run that and get the belt tracking right. So I actually got the belt turning (which honestly was a surprise, I thought it was too stiff and old) and moving freely and it's not too bad. But it's not quite tracking right and since it moves fairly slow it's takes patientience to watch and adjust it.
By this time, Bill stopped in and tried to help me with that tracking, but patience isn't his strong suit and he overtightened the tension on one side to the point that he nearly ruined the platen holes and bent some stuff. I got a little bent when I saw it., but loosen it up and we moved past it. The is a point where you have to just stop, and pick it up the next day. It was 5:30 and I decided to stop. ;D

Anyway, I did get into it today even though I started late. When I sat down for dinner I realized I never had lunch and didn't even miss it, just worked straight through. My back is sore from working on my knees and trying to get that dang motor mounted up about 6 times while just running out of strength. A 20# motor ain't much until you try to hold it up with one hand while lining up bolts and trying to get a chain taught at the same time then just having something slip out so you have to start over.
But all in all, not a bad day, progress was made.



 



 

It don't look like much yet, but I got that drive motor in and the belt moves. It will be a lot of adjusting before I put the abrasive rollers on the top and the idler rollers (3), but one step at a time, get that right, then move on. The way I look at it, a double drum 36" wide sander is worth about 6 grand all day long once you get it working right. Since Bill got this free as salvage, I figure it is worth every penny of my time to make it right. I haven't even ordered sandpaper rolls for it yet. :D When I get it 'done' as far as the rebuild, we will still need to make a dust collection hood because I understand dust control and keeping the dust off the rollers is an important consideration on these things. It's a new animal to me, so learning will take place. But that's why I'm still a greenhorn. :D
I still have to bring in wood for the house and shop, so I'd better get into that because I am loosing steam pretty quick here. I'm tired. being retired is tough some days.
Tomorrow is another day.

[doc henderson]

OK.  great job.  the drive chain for the conveyor on mine, is not tight at all and sags, and works fine after it engages.  so do not kill yourself or buy a new one thinking it is supposed to be tight. 
It looks identical right down to the crank as my grizzly, so go and get the manual and it will tell all about things like how to wrap the paper, how to adjust the tracking in a methodical way, and what does what to the tracking. 
I bought a new belt for mine and it is nice and soft, and bumpy with little gripper.  I think it was about 160 bucks, but better than the original which I think is what you have.  and yes, getting everything in a plane parallel to the plane of the drums.  I did that after the chain jumped the tracks.  required numerous tries. 
the back drum on mine has felt to make the finer paper be proud enough to sand after the first drum has done its thing. 
find the big 2 x 2 x 12-inch sandpaper cleaner deals.
If it has a spring-loaded deal on the drums opposite the belts, then you will need some little black clips (or fab something) to hold the one end of the paper, and nylon reinforced strapping tape for the other end.  I use 3/4 inch wide, and I bought the dispenser with a handle for tension on the tap, and to cut it. 

[doc henderson]

 

 

 

 

https://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g1066r_m.pdf

[Old Greenhorn]

Hey Thanks Doc, that's very helpful! Yes, this machine is very close to the Grizzly except in the motor mount area and a few other odds and ends. I believe this one we have predates the Grizzly and suspect that Grizzly either bought the design or the whole company when they got into sanders. This one is 36" wide and grizzly only goes 24" as far as I can see. They have a discontinued 36" model and I checked out the conveyor belt (at $765.00) but it is a tad wider and about 15" longer than the one for our unit. I MIGHT think about ordering the dust hood to save us all the fabbing work. It depends on shipping cost. Many of the special fabbed parts are identical on both machines.
At any rate, the belt tracking info in that manual was terse but helpful. I will start fresh this morning. Part of the problem may be that this belt is probably 30 years old and has a 'set' in it I cannot counteract. It just went on yesterday, so letting it sit overnight may have helped. It takes patience.
Today is another day and I am again late getting started. They say 6-10" of white crap coming in Saturday night, so I have to do my winter prep stuff today or tomorrow morning. Mostly getting the Mule ready for plowing and putting the doors back on.

[Old Greenhorn]

Just a short mid-day update. I figured out the tracking problem. The belt, after sitting for decades poorly adjusted (there was clear evidence that the prior owner had tracking issues constantly and did some patch jobs to try to fix it) this belt is stretched out of shape. The circumference on one side of the belt is nearly 1/2" longer than the other side. There is no way I can fix this with tracking adjustments because the rubber in the belt is hard and not stretchable. So I need to custom order a belt and be done with that issue. Waiting for management/client approval before I make the expenditure. ;D I also have to order that new chain. Doc the problem with stretched drive chain is not that the overall length is longer, the problem is the pitch change. Chains used on gearmotors (high torque) are subject to this, seen it many times. What happens is that the chain actually stretches under heavy loads and each link grows by just a thousandth or two. Those couple of thousandths add up over several links and accumulate into a big enough pitch difference that the chain 'bumps' or jumps. If not fixed it can lead to bigger problems like heavy gear wear to match the chain pitch. The first time you see this issue it can make you crazy because it makes no sense at all. This is an ANSI 35 chain and I have seen it on ANSI 40 chains, never worked with much over 50 myself.
Lunch is over back to work. I did get my Mule prep work done and I have it charging up now. Had not used it in a while and the battery is getting old. A full night should do the trick.

Edit to add: Tell me about that sandpaper cleaner thingy.

[doc henderson]

It is just rubber.  I can tell you putting a hand full of rubber near a rotating drum with 60 grit sandpaper is intimidating.  you want a bigger one.  the common ones are 1.5 x 1.5 x 8.  Oh, and the first time the paper comes off and the free end is banging on the top you will squint a little as you reach for the off switch.  bam bam bam.  the paper installation you do not want to do often.  I think grizzly has a tech video.  and it is not cheap.  this helps clean the abrasive and you can go on sanding.  all my photos were pics off Amazon.

[21incher]

I get mine at Peachtree Woodworking.  They have a sale about twice a year and I usually  pay about $8 each for the 2 x 2 x 12 ones.
Just wondering  how many  HP that machine is. My 2 foot single drum one only had 3 hp and that really wasn't  enough for anything over 18 inches wide. I only had a double  belt setup and would smoke a matched pair about once a year. That's going to make a lot of fine dust that needs a good cyclone to separate. 

[doc henderson]

once you get the drum touching wood, only crank and eighth of a turn at a time.  never smoked a V belt, but with others "helping me" sanding cookies, they smoked a switch.  that was building a bench for a fund raiser.

[Old Greenhorn]

I'm pretty sure that is a 10hp motor, but I should check. It's a 220V needing a 30 amp circuit Baldor motor. I have read much about what just issues these things have which is why I am considering buying the Grizzly hood and modifying it to fit, saving us much of the fab work, but that's down the road. I tried ordering a belt today but the company I tried said they couldn't get me a quote back before Monday. Most of the stocks belts they sell run from 50 to 70 bucks, so I am hoping it's in that range but the gal couldn't even render a guess. As long as it's reasonable I'll order that and some rolls of 80 and 120 grit which seems like a good starting point.
I have also heard about the light cutting issues required, which I think is just fine since we would likely be running wood through after planeing. But, just like life, it will be a learning experience. ;D
I guess it will be a while yet though. The belt will likely take a couple of weeks I am guessing, then I have to completely dis-assemble everything I put together in the last day or two and re-do it with the new belt. Then I have to re-align the platen height and all that. But that's the nature of rebuilding machines. I am glad I put the old belt on against my better judgement because I learned a lot and now push ahead with more certainty.

[21incher]

The 37 inch 10 hp Grizzly G0449 dual drum single phase one requires a 60 amp breaker. Sounds  like someone must have swapped in a 5hp motor.  That will probably  limit it to one drum to get started. Buy good paper and those rubber cleaning sticks will make it last a long time with dry lumber.  It looks like a fun winter project.   

[Larry]

Some folks will replace the conveyor belt with a wide belt sander belt.  I don't know how successful it is but the cost seems great compared to the real thing.  You might check with these guys.
Maverick Abrasives Conveyor Belts

I've been using their Zirconia wide belts and they last forever.

Almost forgot, I had a early 24" Grizzly for a short time and it only had one 4" dust outlet.  You probably need 3 outlets for a 36" machine.

[Old Greenhorn]

No need to speculate on the HP, it is probably 5 now that I think of it, but I will check the next time I remember and feel like laying on the floor with a mirror. :D
Yes, I am actually trying to order an abrasive belt for the conveyor, they are sold as just that and I ASSUME they are cut and joined with care so the tracking is well controlled. I am looking at 120 grit.
I did check out maverick, but they said nothing about doing custom sizes, which is what, I apparently, need. So I am trying to work with SuperGrit in PA to see if they can help us out.
Getting time to fill the shop stove so I might lay on the floor with a mirror.

[Old Greenhorn]

OK, just so you guys know, and maybe even feel a teeny tiny bit of remorse, I was just out in the shop to satisfy these inquiring minds here and you folks had and old man laying on the cold concrete at 10pm with 2 different flashlights (needed the right color light) and my best pair of cheap readers trying to read backwards (through my late evening beer goggles) to ascertain that this is indeed a 5HP motor. I hope you all are happy. :D :D :D But I am not, makes me think (know) that this isn't enough to drive two drums well, so it will likely behave like a 3hp on a 24". That does not 'enthuse me'. But I will keep an open mind. :D I don't see putting much 36" stock through it anyway, but I could be wrong.

[doc henderson]

These sanders also are great for sanding cookies without splitting off the backside, and also for thin stock such as maple without chipping out.  I do down to 1/8th inch.  Tom I would have rough sanded the stock to make your medallions with my drum sander.



 

these are the cookies sanded for this bench that someone cranked down too much and let the smoke out of the magnetic switch.

I do party in the front... I mean 60 grit on the front roller and 120 in the back.  still some finer RO sanding after.

[Hilltop366]

OK, just so you guys know, and maybe even feel a teeny tiny bit of remorse, I was just out in the shop to satisfy these inquiring minds here and you folks had and old man laying on the cold concrete at 10pm with 2 different flashlights (needed the right color light) and my best pair of cheap readers trying to read backwards (through my late evening beer goggles) to ascertain that this is indeed a 5HP motor.

That is one of the few things I use my cell phone for other than a phone.

It does make a good camera and light for getting info off tags and recording model and serial number for looking up parts etc.

[SawyerTed]

That's a high dollar display unit for those cookies in the back! 

[doc henderson]

Yes we hired a photo staging company!!     It was for a fund raiser for the Fire and Iron riding club, all first responders.  the lesson was that guys came to help, and despite instructions, they got in a hurry.  It started as a family project to build something and donate it for auction.  we did 7 years.  My cousin Janet decided that she and the women were in charge and the great experience devolved into her deciding the style of bench and telling a group of 8 great guys to come to my shop to help.  I spent the day wrangling and facilitation of the build.  Not what I ever intended, and we stopped doing the project.  It was meant to be a fun project for my Uncle Jerry and Janets husband.  Even though I had said no, Janet told one of the guys whose wife was working (with Janet) that he could bring his 6- and 8-year-old kids and let them swim in the pool unsupervised.  He was adamant they did not need an adult.  That was the last year I did this project.  I have told Jerry we may start again, but it will be top secret and Janet will remain in the dark.    The final straw was having the smoke let out of the sander switch.  There was not enough for everyone to do, and they all thought they were in charge.  I am a patient person and realized all meant well but took all the fun out of the project.  That is Richard's motorcycle in the background.  Oh sorry, did I got off the thread a bit? :D :D :D