Just curious what kinds of set ups you guys use ? I have a little LT15 .
Some of the sharpeners look like those electric chain saw chain sharpener.
Any ideas? Besides the $1000 + set ups?
Thanks in advance from a young pup
I use a face sharpening Baker sharpener, it was a free-be. but have cussed it under my breath at times. Wheels are the issue, but would rather be in control after loosing my great resource at a great price. Spending over half the cost of a new blade for a re-sharp goes against my grain. But this is just me. Lots of folks do very well having the big names do theirs. It is your call, and one that has to be made. I did some for the 3rd and 4th time today with great results. Not bad for a rinky dink operation, just a little muffled murmuring in the process. Good grinding wheels are hard to come by.
JHEPP08 you have ruled most of us out :) with the price range. Banjo
Maybe you misunderstood me, all the setups I see are really expensive I'm just trying to see if any1 has a good setup that don't cost a fortune yet does a good job. I can get them sharpened an shipped for about $10 or new for $26 but I like to think doing them my self would be handy
Quote from: JHEPP08 on October 12, 2014, 09:02:58 PM
Maybe you misunderstood me, all the setups I see are really expensive I'm just trying to see if any1 has a good setup that don't cost a fortune yet does a good job. I can get them sharpened an shipped for about $10 or new for $26 but I like to think doing them my self would be handy
I have a EZboardwalk mill and sharpener, not terribly expensive and I can get 3-4 sharpenings out of the bands, takes some time but my freight cost to resharpen is more than most. IF was full time with a bigger mill it would make a difference, but after I get whatever I can they are basically shot so time for new ones. Take your time with a sharpener and get some education here if you don't understand something.
Ok thank you , just looking for different sharpeners people use that are reasonable .
Thanks
Tmarch, the EZ boardwalk sharpener looks just like the Linn Lumber sharpener. Does it do the gullet as well? I know some of these types do not and then you are leaving cracks.
I believe one should look closely at the metal composition of the blades available, especially at the wheel size in regards to the band being used. There are a few that show very minimal cracking, if any, and face grinding works fine for these. If cracks are forming from even one cycle run of 1000 thousand bd/ft then there might be an issue. Just a thought. I have run well over two thousand per sharpening with very limited band breakage, with excellent results. The band is the difference.
drobertson, so are you only sharpening the tooth?
If so, that's good to know.
I am using 18.75" band wheels and they can be more prone to cracking on the blades because of the smaller diameter.
I came across a video on you tube of a fellow using a radial arm saw to sharpen his blades. He profiled a grinding stone set up a track for the blade with an indexing stop. I thought wow what a great idea. I was just about ready to send off a boox of blades for resharp. Instead I went to my wood shop. Grabbed a new grinding stone 60 grit for the bench grinder. Ii used an old 36 grit to shape the profile on the 60. I mounted it on the radial arm saw. I make the blade track from wood and the adjustable stop. Placed a blade in and took an old grinding stone use'd in my hands and "dressed" the new cutting wheel till it matched the blade profile. Cool part is the arm saw tilts to 10 degrees right on the front. And it glides back and forth and adjust up and down for cuut depth. Well 1 hour initial setup time a $15.00 grinding wheel and I am now sharpening my own blades. Just plain awesome. I made my own setter similar to the linn lumber milll setter. No more sending blades off for me. I am on the 4 the sharpen and set on a blade today. I swear the cut more consistant than when they where new. Check youtbe or I can get some pictures of my setup and link the video as well if you are interested.
I'd love a link to the video and any other info about the radial saw system...
A while back I was seriously investigating sharpeners but the. Got lulled into security wit a good resharp service near where I was doing a lot of milling. But they're 2hrs away from
Where I live and do most of my work. I'm trying to arrange to get 10 bands there this week but I'm fearing even if I do they will reject 2 or 3 perfectly good bands because they were bent a bit when they slipped off the mill or got pinched in a cut. The bands run true but they're automatef system doesnt like them. They have 2 or 3 machines in a room and one guy who set then all up to run while setting Bands In another area. They must sharpen 100 bands a day for small mills. In another area they do the 4", 6" and double tooth bands.
Meanwhile I had almost decided to get the ez Boardwalk sharepener to start with--until I can afford to get a cats claw..... I'd love to hear reviews.
Quote from: BCsaw on October 12, 2014, 10:38:30 PM
Tmarch, the EZ boardwalk sharpener looks just like the Linn Lumber sharpener. Does it do the gullet as well? I know some of these types do not and then you are leaving cracks.
Mine does grind the gullet, takes a little set up to do it though. I'm getting good blade life so happy with it.
Is there a video of the EZ Boardwalk sharpener? I am thinking abought getting one but would like to see how it works first
Golddredger, love that idea. That looks like you have something there.
For those that don't have a radial arm saw, they can be had cheap. $50 - $75 used in a lot of cases.
I will get you guys some picttures today. And post them up. Stay tuned!
Quote from: golddredger on October 12, 2014, 11:36:03 PM
I came across a video on you tube of a fellow using a radial arm saw to sharpen his blades. He profiled a grinding stone set up a track for the blade with an indexing stop. I thought wow what a great idea. I was just about ready to send off a boox of blades for resharp. Instead I went to my wood shop. Grabbed a new grinding stone 36 grit for the bench grinder. I mounted it on the radial arm saw. I make the blade track from wood and the adjustable stop. Placed a blade in and took an old grinding stone use'd in my hands and "dressed" the new cutting wheel till it matched the blade profile. Cool part is the arm saw tilts to 10 degrees right on the front. And it glides back and forth and adjust up and down for cuut depth. Well 1 hour initial setup time a $15.00 grinding wheel and I am now sharpening my own blades. Just plain awesome. I made my own setter similar to the linn lumber milll setter. No more sending blades off for me. I am on the 4 the sharpen and set on a blade today. I swear the cut more consistant than when they where new. Check youtbe or I can get some pictures of my setup and link the video as well if you are interested.
A 36 grit wheel is all wrong.You need 60 grit and finer.I have been sharpening saws as a business since 1970 and sharpened tools since the mid 50s.The tip of the tooth does ALL the cutting.....
Yes you are 100% correct 36 coupe. I made a mistake. I used an old 36 grit to shape the 60 grit wheels profile. I will edit that above. Good catch!
OK here is the pictures of my setup. I used an OSH 60 grit for the sharpening stone. The radial arm saw is a 10" with 5/8 arbor. specs are in the pictures for the stone I used. The old 36 grit I used to profile the new 60. Took about an hour to shape the stone and that was the toughest part of the project. Take your time check the fit to the blade. The fellow in the video grind pretty hard I take a lighter cut just touching the teeth and gullet. I just screwed the block with the slot down to my saws wood top. I clamped a couple of stringers on to support the blade at the rear. Takes about 15 minutes to sharped a 158" blade. The kerf from the table saw blade was a bit wide for the slot so I trimmed a few thin strips of tin to go in the slot to tighten the blade up so it cannot rock side to side. Works wonderful. Low cost and last photo is a load of 2X12 boards I just cut with my resharpened blade. That is an old blade I just put in for the pictures. It has not been sharpened yet. It had hit a nail so that is why it does not have a tip on the teeth. This sharpener will clean that right up and save that blade. Link to the you tube video of where I seen this originaly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8NYwyp6k0k&index=46&list=WL (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8NYwyp6k0k&index=46&list=WL)
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This one is a bit different than others I have seen on the tube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzCgy8q5--w
http://vieltools.com/detail.php?p=MTUwNA==
Quote from: golddredger on October 13, 2014, 05:31:45 PM
Yes you are 100% correct 36 coupe. I made a mistake. I used an old 36 grit to shape the 60 grit wheels profile. I will edit that above. Good catch!
Use a diamond dresser.The short ones are not expensive if you make a holder for them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU6UhC4gIHk
Quote from: JHEPP08 on October 12, 2014, 09:02:58 PM
Maybe you misunderstood me, all the setups I see are really expensive I'm just trying to see if any1 has a good setup that don't cost a fortune yet does a good job. I can get them sharpened an shipped for about $10 or new for $26 but I like to think doing them my self would be handy
I have considered buying the full setup from Wood Mizer to sharpen and set my own blades. The cost for the machines I want would run 5 grand or better if I have my numbers right. Maybe even more. To send a box of 15 blades to WM ReSharp and get it back costs me $137. It's expensive to send them out, but it's convenient. I don't have to spend time at night grinding blades after I have spent the day sawing.
Unless you're going through a box of blades every week or so, I would just send them out and let resharp handle them.
Having one sharpen is handy, but, when the bad one hits, there might be some grumbling. a 5 grand set up is not necessary for sure. and it only takes a few minutes to get one ready to go back to the log.
Sharpening your own bands is a personal choice, if your an independent cuss or at the end of the supply line it becomes more important. Some folks are hard pressed to properly sharpen a chainsaw let alone a band, they would be best serviced by a resharp service. If your a low volume "hobby" sawyer it really won't pay to buy good equipment to sharpen properly. If you cut for hire and of a temperament to sharpen bands right, it will pay you back. Near as I can figure my equipment has paid off a couple of years back and every band now is money that has never left my pocket. Frank C.
Quote from: bandmiller2 on October 15, 2014, 07:54:29 PM
Sharpening your own bands is a personal choice, Frank C.
That personal choice may very well not have anything to do with economics or ability. I have the mechanical ability and I would be several thousand $$$ ahead if I had chosen to do my own resharpening.
My choice was time. Quite simply, when I am not sawing, I am off. That "off time" is very valuable......to me.
If you decide to buy a sharpener and setter, keep track of how many blades you sharpen with it and you'd be surprised how quickly you would be at the "break-even" point where the equipment doesn't owe you anything.
I bought mine for $2,455.00 and just figured what resharp charged ($7.00) per blade and when I sharpened my 350th blade the sharpener and setter didn't owe me anything.
I was just figuring the sharpening, not the shipping, otherwise the break-even point would have been much sooner!
It isn't that simple, however. You have to figure in your opportunity cost, which is how much money are you not making when you are sharpening? You have to put a $ per hour figure on those 350 bands, and add that to the $2455.00, then figure out where you are. You will obviously have to sharpen more bands to hit break even, which of course will have increased your opportunity cost. We might need calculus to figure that one out. :D So, that's a lot of bands just to break even, never mind actually profit from doing your own sharpening. I contend that unless you really enjoy it, and wish to do it as a hobby to keep you away from the barroom, then it is very hard to financially justify sharpening your own bands. You may have other justifications, which is an individual choice. I'd like to hear how many bands one person can clean, sharpen, and set in one hour.
The Wood Mizer setter and sharpener I have cost $ 4500.00. With shipping and Wood Mizer doing the job is $100.00 a box of ten. So 45 boxes of blades and It's paid for.
I did that in no time, But I'm full time at it too. Now I can set and sharpen 10 blade In an hr. So I make $100.00 an hr.
Wow, 6 minutes per blade. That ain't bad for someone that is grit free. ;D
Quote from: Magicman on October 16, 2014, 09:30:43 PM
Wow, 6 minutes per blade. That ain't bad for someone that is grit free. ;D
:D :D :D :D smiley_thumbsup
Quote from: Magicman on October 16, 2014, 09:30:43 PM
Wow, 6 minutes per blade. That ain't bad for someone that is grit free. ;D
:D :D
Well, sometimes 10 min If I have to go around 2 times.
Quote from: Dave Shepard on October 16, 2014, 08:21:13 PM
It isn't that simple, however. You have to figure in your opportunity cost, which is how much money are you not making when you are sharpening? You have to put a $ per hour figure on those 350 bands, and add that to the $2455.00, then figure out where you are. You will obviously have to sharpen more bands to hit break even, which of course will have increased your opportunity cost. We might need calculus to figure that one out. :D So, that's a lot of bands just to break even, never mind actually profit from doing your own sharpening. I contend that unless you really enjoy it, and wish to do it as a hobby to keep you away from the barroom, then it is very hard to financially justify sharpening your own bands. You may have other justifications, which is an individual choice. I'd like to hear how many bands one person can clean, sharpen, and set in one hour.
Unless you are milling as an employee with no personal cost directly related to the operation, then you have a point, somewhat.
The degree of sawyer varies greatly, along with ones current status/environment.
Most people do not automatically associate a dollar value to there own time when running a business, wages yes, but not time.
If one were to do so all aspect of the business would have to be valuated, and one would be broke. Care to add a dollar figure to fueling, maintenance, accounting etc.... all parts of doing business?
The average 12' band up here costs $25-30, a professional re-sharp $17. I can clean set, sharpen and set 5 bands an hour. I don't make $85 an hour sawing or at my day job.
I bought my sharpener used and make my own pinneywoods setter, total capital investment $536.
Bought the Cooks sharpener and single setter and I have already seen a huge savings in cost and blade life. Iam able to use certain blades for different type milling Jobs. With Kelly doing the setting and I clean & sharpen we got it down to 10 min. Per blade. I actually look forward to sharpening. Although I have only been doing it for Two months. Looking at my Books 8 years averaging 1500 a year on blade buying and sharpening. Iam glad I finally pulled the trigger.
I think too there is a value on convenience.... For me, I have to travel for 2hrs round trip to get bands sharped and there is a 2 week turnaround. If I send bands away the cost rises, but I still have to travel to the UPS store which is 20 min away, and those bands can take longer than 2 weeks to come back. SO then I'm forced to maintain a high inventory of bands and have even more $$$ out. That's great when the sawing is thick or i am working a big project of my own....but in leaner times.... I'm thinking a setter and sharpener is the way to go in my rural situation.
Quote from: Dave Shepard on October 16, 2014, 08:21:13 PM
It isn't that simple, however. You have to figure in your opportunity cost, which is how much money are you not making when you are sharpening? You have to put a $ per hour figure on those 350 bands, and add that to the $2455.00, then figure out where you are. You will obviously have to sharpen more bands to hit break even, which of course will have increased your opportunity cost. We might need calculus to figure that one out. :D So, that's a lot of bands just to break even, never mind actually profit from doing your own sharpening. I contend that unless you really enjoy it, and wish to do it as a hobby to keep you away from the barroom, then it is very hard to financially justify sharpening your own bands. You may have other justifications, which is an individual choice. I'd like to hear how many bands one person can clean, sharpen, and set in one hour.
Usually it takes me about 15-20 minutes per blade to clean, set and sharpen 1 blade.
That is an average though, depending on how grungy the blades are.
I normally do my sharpening after supper, so I wouldn't be sawing anyway, so I might as well be doing something! ;)
In the mid 90's I worked with an old fella on his new LT-70 three phase. He had a mild stroke and the little switches were a challenge. Turned into a close friendship. He was dyed in the wool orange, if they sold breakfast cereal he'd be eating it. He used resharp and was skeptical of anything else. I convinced him to try mysharp bands and he couldn't tell the difference. We could beat our gums forever on this subject, boils down to each of us have our own way, new guys have to figure it out for their operation. Frank C.
I set and sharpen my own and do a few for neighbors. If you have or might purchase one of the older wm sharpeners (mine's 19 years old) here's a few tips. The setter sets one tooth at a time, then you have to invert the blade and do the other side. A small chunk of scrap metal, 2 bolts and 30 minutes is all that's needed to convert to a 2 sided setter. Cuts setting time in half.
I don't know when the upgrade to the sharpener occurred, but there are some differences between mine and later versions. Biggest change is a larger grinder wheel motor. 19 years ago, everbody ran .035 bands, now it's .045 or even .055 blades, which really need a little more power. I'm in the process of upgrading mine to a 1/3 hp 110 volt motor. The original water pumps had a fairly short service life, probably due to metal filings in the lube water. A cheap aquarium pump will work just as well. Put a good stout magnet in a plastic bag and place it in the water pan. It will collect most of the filings..
Quote from: hamish on October 16, 2014, 10:00:36 PM
Quote from: Dave Shepard on October 16, 2014, 08:21:13 PM
It isn't that simple, however. You have to figure in your opportunity cost, which is how much money are you not making when you are sharpening? You have to put a $ per hour figure on those 350 bands, and add that to the $2455.00, then figure out where you are. You will obviously have to sharpen more bands to hit break even, which of course will have increased your opportunity cost. We might need calculus to figure that one out. :D So, that's a lot of bands just to break even, never mind actually profit from doing your own sharpening. I contend that unless you really enjoy it, and wish to do it as a hobby to keep you away from the barroom, then it is very hard to financially justify sharpening your own bands. You may have other justifications, which is an individual choice. I'd like to hear how many bands one person can clean, sharpen, and set in one hour.
Unless you are milling as an employee with no personal cost directly related to the operation, then you have a point, somewhat.
The degree of sawyer varies greatly, along with ones current status/environment.
Most people do not automatically associate a dollar value to there own time when running a business, wages yes, but not time.
If one were to do so all aspect of the business would have to be valuated, and one would be broke. Care to add a dollar figure to fueling, maintenance, accounting etc.... all parts of doing business?
The average 12' band up here costs $25-30, a professional re-sharp $17. I can clean set, sharpen and set 5 bands an hour. I don't make $85 an hour sawing or at my day job.
I bought my sharpener used and make my own pinneywoods setter, total capital investment $536.
Why wouldn't you figure in the time for maintenance, fueling, accounting? It's all part of the big picture, and those who don't pay attention to it are likely subsidizing their operation, or are at risk of failing. I charge $100 per hour for milling. There are expenses that have to come out of that for actual operation of the mill, such as wear and tear, fuel and bands. But then there is the time off the clock at night or on the weekend shoveling sawdust out from under the mill, bundling slabs or plowing snow in the winter. I have to make sure that I get enough money while the saw is running to cover the time when I'm not "getting paid" so to speak. I don't think it matters whether it is you doing it yourself, or you are paying an employee. As has been mentioned, how one uses their spare time is their own choice, but that choice must reflect what other activities you could be doing instead. Like Magicman, my time is worth more to me to do other things than what I would make sharpening bands.
Quote from: FarmingSawyer on October 17, 2014, 05:37:49 AM
I think too there is a value on convenience.... For me, I have to travel for 2hrs round trip to get bands sharped and there is a 2 week turnaround. If I send bands away the cost rises, but I still have to travel to the UPS store which is 20 min away, and those bands can take longer than 2 weeks to come back. SO then I'm forced to maintain a high inventory of bands and have even more $$$ out. That's great when the sawing is thick or i am working a big project of my own....but in leaner times.... I'm thinking a setter and sharpener is the way to go in my rural situation.
Have you tried Wood-Mizer for your band needs? They will cut you any size band you need. They use FedEx, and you can schedule a pickup at your residence, and they will deliver to your door. I don't think I've ever had to wait more than a week total to get my bands back. They are great on turnaround, and on all shipping, in fact. I ordered a part at 2:00 PM yesterday, and it was on my front step this afternoon when I got home. :) You may find that you would prefer to have the flexibility, and get the equipment anyway, but it's worth crunching the numbers, especially if you don't use a lot of bands.
Quote from: Dave Shepard on October 17, 2014, 05:10:21 PM
Have you tried Wood-Mizer for your band needs? They will cut you any size band you need. They use FedEx, and you can schedule a pickup at your residence, and they will deliver to your door. I don't think I've ever had to wait more than a week total to get my bands back. They are great on turnaround, and on all shipping, in fact. I ordered a part at 2:00 PM yesterday, and it was on my front step this afternoon when I got home. :) You may find that you would prefer to have the flexibility, and get the equipment anyway, but it's worth crunching the numbers, especially if you don't use a lot of bands.
I just ordered my 1st 2 WM bands....I did this as part of a test...... I ordered several different makes of bands. I used to run Lenox because that was what the mill manufacturer sold...then I upgraded to Timberwolfs and have been happy with them...but I was cutting mostly pine. I ordered a batch of bands recently and milling curly maple and some oak the set was taken right out of the bands within 300bf..... Not a great track record. That and several new TW bands developed an odd distortion where they won't lay flat in a loop and so the sharpening service I use won't sharp them....It doesn't happen to all bands and I'm trying to keep better track of the situation so I can tell if it's my mill or how I mill or something else.
Meanwhile I decided to try a couple of different makes after hearing about them on FF. However...I was unimpressed with WM service when the bands were sold me....very little questions asked and indifference when I suggested what I would be sawing. 13'6" wasn't stock for them, but they did fedex the bands and I got them 5 days later. I will try them this weekend....but I am not impressed with the price for 2 bands..... Timberwolfs, which are spendy enough and a couple other brands were significantly less when bought individually....Discounts for multiple bands purchased yes...but no penalty for buying less than a given amount. All I have to say is WM bands had better really be something special for me to switch. I'll be cutting some really hard elm with 3 or 4 passes each band to see how they go....Elm with this grain has always given the softer TW bands a run for their money.
The other thing I'm leary of, now, is switching to, say, WM for sharpening because I would have to scrap all my other new-ish bands as they won't sharpen them. Likewise with the remaining Lenox and Cook's bands..... I'm keeping my mind open and I'll go with the better band 1st and worry about sharpening 2nd. I'm still feeling like sharpening in-house would be right for me......
I've only run WM DoubleHard bands, so I can't compare them to any of the other brands. I've had really good luck with them. I've cut a lot of tough stuff on the manual LT40's with 1.25"x.045" 4° and 10° bands. Black locust, white oak, pignut hickory (really tough stuff), knotty softwoods. If you can get enough tension on an .045" band, you should be able to cut pretty much any log around. I'm not sure why the bands lost their set in the hard maple, I've never encountered that before.
You'll have to ask ReSharp, but I think they will sharpen any band, but it will be the WM profile when they are done.
This elm had been laying in the millyard for a year before I got to it. It sawed up very well with a 10° DoubleHard.
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I sharpen my bands for the same reason I saw my own wood and build my own house...satisfaction...if I had to pay myself for all the stuff I do, I really would be broke.
Well said Ely. It would be interesting to compare the number of sharpenings a band will endure commercial sharpening service vs. home sharp. Time is money and commercial sharp services hog off enough so they clean up to their cam without going around a second time. They use coolant so no burn but I think you loose a lot of band life. When I sharpen a band that is just slightly dull I can remove the bare minimum of material for a keen edge. Frank C.
IIRC, WM ReSharp cleans, initial grinds, sets, then finish grinds each band. Mine fail from flexing long before they are wear out.