I can pick up about 6000 lbs with my tractor but many of the logs that I'm getting are over 12000 and I need to build some kind of means to easily load them onto my Peterson. I'v been setting up over the the logs but that is really time consuming. A ramp butting up to the concrete the saw sets on seems to be an easy fix---but I still have to have a way to roll the log up the ramp. I do have a winch that would do that but it would have to be mounted each time I loaded a big log are, or in the way if permanently mounted. Maybe a bigger tractor. ;)
Is the Peterson set-up stationary? if so and you have room build a log deck ,
You have a Hi/Lo frame correct?
D
Nope. I'm low low. I have to get over that low rail. So a ramp/log deck will fit for a few feet. But I still have to get up onto that deck and then safely down on the other side of the rail.
Quote from: Qweaver on November 13, 2017, 08:18:11 PM
I can pick up about 6000 lbs with my tractor but many of the logs that I'm getting are over 12000 and I need to build some kind of means to easily load them onto my Peterson. I'v been setting up over the the logs but that is really time consuming. A ramp butting up to the concrete the saw sets on seems to be an easy fix---but I still have to have a way to roll the log up the ramp. I do have a winch that would do that but it would have to be mounted each time I loaded a big log are, or in the way if permanently mounted. Maybe a bigger tractor. ;)
Harbor freight sells a small class 3 reciver hitch that you could mount on your mill.
Then put your winch on a hitch plate. Then put fork lift quick connect battery ends
on your wires. Then you can just slide your winch in the hitch and plug it in and
you'r good to go. Easy on easy off...
Peter Drouin seems to be CAT happy with this:
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=233098
Bibbyman went with a Terex:
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=196426
Customsawyer uses this for most his logs:
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=85371
and dialled it up a notch with this:
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=196036
Seems like a trend there, hey?
Cut a couple 6x8? beams x whatever length and butt them up next to the track. The tops should be 4 or so inches higher then the top of the track. Guessing they should be 8 foot apart? May need more than two if your logs are crooked. Shim them up with cross plank that is lagged to the slab and attach them to the cross plank too. Cut a 45 on tbe far end. Lag down an attachment point for a cable between the beams and just outside of the track. 3/8 outta due. Run the cable between the beams and roll your logs over it and up to the beams. Back you tractor up to the other side of the mill . Flip the cable over the log and attach it to tbe tractor and pull the log up on the beams and to the mill. A HF winch would be a lot easier way to due same thing replacing the tractor and cable. This will work well enough while your shopping for a nice used articulated loader with forks, bucket a d quick tach,, LOL
That heavy, I think you need to think wheel loader not tractor if you plan to lift them.
I keep thinking about tracks for loading. For a long time, I thought about a log carriage on tracks to slid under the mill for long logs. Now I'm thinking that putting the mill on tracks may be better. Similar to movable greenhouses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWytw_BH2VY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWytw_BH2VY)
https://www.rimolgreenhouses.com/greenhouse-series/rolling-thunder (https://www.rimolgreenhouses.com/greenhouse-series/rolling-thunder)
The tracks wouldn't support milling I don't think, but some concrete piers and blocks that have handles to slip under the corners should make short work of resetting the mill.
Time is money and money buys time. You either get to pay for equipment or you get to pay with time and that's part of the deal with stationary milling: regardless of mill output you end up with the same rolling stock as the guy down the road to handle the same size logs efficiently.
I prefer articulated loaders to telehandlers but there are pros and cons either way. Two of my toys sitting right here beside me while I drink my coffee
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/32746/20171114_120526.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1510626084)
Lurker that's one of the best lines about Time and Money I have heard in a long time. But so true.
I have the same trouble with only a skid steer.
I had two DF 40 insh 18 footers to saw so I made ramps on my swing blade. and rolled them in to place.
Figured they weight in the 7500 lb range.
Lost control of the first one. and found you can take out a lot of fence in one go. :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
I don't get many big logs the big mills around me don't take any thing over 30 in. they leave them in the hills.
I see a bigger loader in my future.
Q. be careful with the big logs they break things
What are you sawing that is 12,000 lbs?
I just hauled in a 6 foot diameter redwood that was 18 feet long. Over 2000 BdFt and it weighed 18,500 lbs.
Big logs can kill expensive equipment if they get loose. Just a halfa roll can mash thousands$ in mill equipment.
Because the rails of the Peterson are light weight aluminium (for portability), there is no place to attach a winch or loader to the mill itself. So they don't really have that "loading" facility. If you can't move the log, then you move the mill. But there is no reason you can't fabricate up a log deck / bunk system to suit.
Have you thought about mounting a winch well away from the mill, on the non loading side. Need to be anchored down to something pretty solid of course or mounted on heavy vehicle? Then you build a ramp / log deck and bunks beside / under the mill. Set up a couple of angle iron tracks on hinges at the end of the log deck. When you load a log, these hinge down and rest on the log bunks. Winch the log across the gap above the rail. Once it's in place unhook the cable, fold the "drawbridge" out of the way and start sawing.
It wont be as fast as having a heavy duty wheel loader or similar to simply pick up the log and lift it into place. And this this goes back to Longtime's "Time or Money" motto. But it would be quicker than moving the mill and wont cost a fortune as most of it can be fabricated from wooden beams you can saw yourself. 2 mins with a loader , 5 mins with a winch / log deck, 20 mins to move the mill and set up again. Costs of each option are inverse to the time saved.
Wouldn't need a massive winch as you only have to roll it up the ramp then across. Wrap the cable around a couple of times so the log tends to roll rather than drag.
Also if you want to be clever, make some removable "shims" for the bunks. By moving or adding those you can adjust for taper of various logs, moving either bunk up or down an inch or 2 as needed. Need to measure / eyeball the log first and decide how to set up, but as long as the log is pretty straight you can guestimate well enough. If it's an ugly knobby log, then centering exactly is probably pointless anyway.
The mill isn't modified in anyway, and you can still pick it up and move it any time, then drop it back into place around the bunks / log deck when you return.
The problem with any track/deck/skids/winch type system for getting big logs onto any mill is this: you haven't solved the problem, just shifted it further away from the saw because you still need to get the same big log from truck/pile/ etc onto the deck.
In the picture I posted above the loader at the front is "Bessie". Wouldn't think it to look at her but of all the junk I own she's my baby. She's an LD8R scoopmobile, about 35000lbs of vintage iron and steel with what we believe is the world's first quuckhitch. SWL of 8356lb, lift capacity of 16000 or so... and that's before we loaded the rear tyres and put 500lb of plate on her bottom. Old Bess might look rough, and she might be slow and need half a square mile to turn but she mostly runs like a swiss watch and lifts like a 988.
Bessie averages about 30 hours a month. She unloads log trucks, works the back log yard getting tree length logs to the day heaps... and the bulk of thehours - pack timber, loading trucks, getting CTL logs from day piles to infeed- is carried by the forklifts.
When Bess has issues, as ladies of her vintage are wont to do, its a nightmare . experience tells me that in her average 7 hour week she replaces one man full time on a forklift. To put a dollar value on it the cranky old dear saves me about $900 a week, and we're not a big mill by anyones standard.
Trust me... if you're serious a sawmilling and youve got big logs to deal with regularly then a machine to handle them is an economic necessity. When its just one here and there that's different, but you need to be able to handle90% of your logs quickly, safely and efficiently. Just saying.
Yeah, I'm assuming the QW is bringing in his own heavy logs with a log arch or similar. Then my system would work. If logs are coming in on a truck, then you need a "Bessie" of some sort to pick them up and move them around for sure.
Sum Flung Dung, (hey they all got to have a name) the chinese 932 ripoff, with about a xx30"x18' on the washdown pad this afternoon.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/32746/20171114_155831.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1510652770)
Dung can handle about 6000lb rated and probably 8000 tops before it cocks a leg. Name says it all but it's a cost effective option to a second hand Cat. Bess brought that CTL with the bigger 2/3 attached up from the bottom yard no sweat tho
Quote from: Ianab on November 14, 2017, 04:32:18 AM
Yeah, I'm assuming the QW is bringing in his own heavy logs with a log arch or similar. Then my system would work. If logs are coming in on a truck, then you need a "Bessie" of some sort to pick them up and move them around for sure.
All of my logs come in on a truck or trailer and we have the room to unload them parallel to the saw so they are positioned to roll or carry to the saw. So a log deck may be my best option. Using my two tractors has worked and would have'd worked this time but the customer convinced me he knew how to do it. Never again! It was a nightmare and could have damaged the rails. Building a deck is on my long list of things to do.
Qweaver.
I remember seing on youtube, i think! A flat log deck. Which had fingers reaching over the rail, and onto the log bunks. IIRC, the fingers would retract with hydraulics or may be air. These were hinged and moving to the side. So simple to make. Few RSJ, of cuts to make the fingers, few hinges and that was it. The guy was rolling the logs with a log turner. Tho, it was on a bandsaw. Not a swinger!
If you're alone figure out how to pick up one rail and move it out of the way. Dismounting the mill, moving the rail with a helper, and remounting the mill only takes a few minutes if the feet of the skids aren't moved. That's if there's a helper to pick up one end of the 26' rail. Need 2 helpers if you've got a 39 foot rail.
Come to think of it I seem to vaguely recall Peterson having a conversion kit to turn it into a Hi-Lo rail from Lo-Lo. Or maybe it was the other way. Long time since I looked at a swingmill.
Be worth giving them a call anyway.
Yes. I have the Hi-Lo setup. To go Hi-Lo you first set up and align the rails Lo-Lo. Then you remove the rail on the engine side, and put an upright into the crossmember 2x2 holes, and one in the middle. Then you hang the rail on the top of these uprights. That would let you roll a log under the Hi rail, if it's not too tall.
You could do this for a very large log, but it doesn't take that long to remove one of the rails and put it back, like I said earlier above. With a very large log you'll want a machine in there anyway and you might decide the Hi rail was in the way .
Hi-lo conversion just involves the described added hw, probably not cheap but other than with REALLY big logs, should save a lot of time. Left Coast is the distributor, of course.
If QW's machine is a 10" like mine and with that monster B&S 35 hp hunka hunka noisy metal, it is not totally trivial to move, no matter what anyone says, but maybe easier on a concrete pad. I don't have that luxury.
Peterson videos of WPF mills being moved are NOT showing 10" machines. 600+ lbs is not like a wheelbarrow.
As LL says, time is money. Go Hi-lo is my suggestion. Just don't let a big log roll over to the lo rail and dent the aluminum. K-Ching!!
What I've done in the past is knock up a wooden stand that supports the saw carriage. You move the carriage to one end of the rails, then place that under one side of the carriage, and lower the saw onto the stand. This lifts the rollers on that side off the rail. Now you can lift the log side rail out, roll the log in, and drop the rail back in place. WInch the head up again, and the rollers drop back onto the rail.
Gets around the hassle of having to actually remove the heavy saw carriage. You just lift it enough with it's own winch to sneak the rail out.
I just put the jockey wheels back on, then lower it to the ground and push the engine end back over its rail. Then the other rail is free.
Quote from: MbfVA on November 15, 2017, 03:33:19 AM
Hi-lo conversion just involves the described added hw, probably not cheap but other than with REALLY big logs, should save a lot of time. Left Coast is the distributor, of course.
If QW's machine is a 10" like mine and with that monster B&S 35 hp hunka hunka noisy metal, it is not totally trivial to move, no matter what anyone says, but maybe easier on a concrete pad. I don't have that luxury.
Peterson videos of WPF mills being moved are NOT showing 10" machines. 600+ lbs is not like a wheelbarrow.
As LL says, time is money. Go Hi-lo is my suggestion. Just don't let a big log roll over to the lo rail and dent the aluminum. K-Ching!!
Howdy,
The upgrade kit to move from lo/lo to hi/lo is $884.00.
Regards
Gregg
After a lot of thinking about this, I think that building heavy duty rollers to allow me to winch up to 30' logs from the end of the saw concrete bed. A deadman restrained wench mount on the other end would not be in the way of normal mill operation and the log will come on well centered. I'll put some lines on paper and maybe make this a winter project. 3" sch 80 pipe rollers mounted by pillar blocks and bolted to the 6" concrete should make loading easy. Pulling with the dozer or BH should also work. With no risk of damage to the Peterson like the last job we did.
Quinton