Honda 20 seized ?

[sprucebunny]

So I'm guessing that if I can't get that big nut to turn either way with about 50 pounds of force on a 2 foot breaker bar that the engine is seized ???

 

Last summer I put Blue Creeper down the spark plug holes twice and same for Marvel Mystery oil. I get a good solid clunk from the starter/solenoid but no action.

[Weekend_Sawyer]

Pull the plugs and make sure a cylinder isn't filled with gas. That'll keep it from turning. But probably not in both directions. I'm thinking she's seized.
Too bad, That's the engine I have on my mill that's 17 years old now.

[Bruno of NH]

Did you move it with the gas on ?

[OntarioAl]

Pull the heads you may be surprised as to what you may find.
My Honda clone water pump was seized, I leave down by the creek for the purpose of watering the garden it resides there all summer.
Along comes Mrs. Mud Dauber explores the muffler and exhaust system finds the exhaust valve open and proceeds to build a nest on top of the piston.
I found it locked up solid when I went to start It tried Marvel Mystery oil and auto tranny fluid no dice locked up solid I had a backup pump and I tore into the seized engine during the winter.  Well surprise surprise  surprise I found the problem mud from the top of the piston to the head.
Al
  

[sprucebunny]

This one was also made in 2002.

I might take it apart someday but for now, I'll just get another base engine. It has never been great. Already replaced the carb. There are just too many other broken things in my life  to take the hard ( but maybe cheaper..) road with this.

Can't budge that nut with the plugs out.

There are no signs of activity or water in the exhaust. There is always a tin can over the exhaust and a canvas tarp over the whole motor.

Here's the really sad part.


 
Had to melt the upper right of cover because bolt didn't work. But the hour meter has always worked ...  :

So do I need a puller of some kind to get the clutch off ?


 
Or should some Blue Creeper and violence do the trick ?

[Bruno of NH]

You will need a puller 
Check out the harbor freight 22hp predator 
It will bolt right up
There is one in Littleton or they will ship it to your house

[sprucebunny]

Thanks for the idea, Bruno but with my luck and the choice between a 3 month warrentee and a 3 year warrentee, I think I'll stick with Honda.

I looked at the similar Kohler and B&S but they are more expensive than Honda with shorter warrentees and I'd need to buy a new muffler and clutch.

This is the only Honda product ( other than a car...) that has been terrible. I have 2 generators, a 13 HP and 4 ATVs that have all been rock solid.

In doing some research, other people have had similar issues with random bad idle, one cylinder cutting out, and poor throttle response. I'm hoping the newer model is better. Or maybe I'll just be a little luckier this time.
Oh! and this engine would Never start if it was less than 40 degrees out which seems like very good sawing weather to me !

[Bruno of NH]

You could also look for a robin/Subaru, they are now owned by Yamaha .
I just got a 14hp for my edger
I have one on my generator and power washer.
Good engines and warranty. 
I got the 14hp from a place in Pa great service.
I know of two mill companies switched to robin because of issues with the Honda's. 
The 14hp started 2nd pull.

[luap]

This one was also made in 2002.

I might take it apart someday but for now, I'll just get another base engine. It has never been great. Already replaced the carb. There are just too many other broken things in my life  to take the hard ( but maybe cheaper..) road with this.

Can't budge that nut with the plugs out.

There are no signs of activity or water in the exhaust. There is always a tin can over the exhaust and a canvas tarp over the whole motor.

Here's the really sad part.


 
Had to melt the upper right of cover because bolt didn't work. But the hour meter has always worked ...  :

So do I need a puller of some kind to get the clutch off ?


 
Or should some Blue Creeper and violence do the trick ?

A good way to seal up the exhaust is to gently insert steel wool into the exhaust pipe. Custom fit for any small engine. Works great on any stored motor.

[sprucebunny]

Thanks for the reminder, luap.

Robin/Subaru only goes up to 14 HP and isn't really supported anymore.

Can't find a Yamaha MX775V-EFI without a mower attached to it and it weighs 32 pounds more (33%)

There is a Honda dealer nearby. I'm going to talk to them.

[John Bartley]

Pull the fan shroud and see if the ignition coils are rusted to the magnets?   See if there's a mouse house under the flywheel.  This much disassembly takes almost no time and might save you a pile of moolah.

[sprucebunny]

John, I'll look into those things. There was a mouse house or two in the fan.

What brand of engine is on your mill ??? Has it run well ?

[thecfarm]

69 hours  That's too bad. :(

[sprucebunny]

Yes, it is Ray. It ran so badly and randomly that I gave up. At the time, I couldn't find anyone else with issues except for the no start in cold.

Yesterday I found several people with the same problems with both the GX620 and newer Gx630...Guess Honda doesn't know what's wrong or doesn't care.

Had about the same experience with a Honda CRV.

I wish Toyota made small engines 

[hamish]

As mentioned pull the cylinder heads and also all the shrouds and the flywheel...........its a Honda, going to be something simple.

[John Bartley]

John, I'll look into those things. There was a mouse house or two in the fan.

What brand of engine is on your mill ??? Has it run well ?

My mill is powered by a Kohler CH25.  It's been very good for the eleven years I've owned the mill. The one thing the Kohlers are known for is blowing the head gaskets between the cylinder and the push rod gallery.  You'll know right away when that happens because of the blue smoke that happens.
Just a note .... I know people tend to look down on Briggs a bit, but I've seen Briggs engines go many, many hours with no trouble.  A Vanguard 16hp v-twin I serviced in the 1990's, used on a local airport's Ferris front cutter mower had run to something like four or five thousand hours (I forget exactly how much) before it finally lost an oil pan gasket and had to be repaired ..... for the first time.  I've seen others do similar hours with good maintenance.

[Bruno of NH]

The Briggs vanguard engines are good

[sprucebunny]

Pull the fan shroud and see if the ignition coils are rusted to the magnets?   See if there's a mouse house under the flywheel.  This much disassembly takes almost no time and might save you a pile of moolah.

Yes, ignition coil(s) rusted to magnet. It turns now. Just have to figure out how to get rid of the mostly surface rust. Then I need to figure out why it always ran so crappy..... Should I just buy new coils ?

I'd rather work on a 6 cylinder anyday  :D

[Bruno of NH]

Yes buy new coils
Goggle it 
They don't cost much

[barbender]

Sprucebunny, I don't remember if you listed the symptoms of the engines poor performance,  but if it ran, but with poor power and not smoothly, I would tend to think towards a fuel system issue. Those carbs are pretty simple. Make sure you have decent fuel flow to the carb. If that checks out I'd remove the carb, it might just have a bunch of crud in the float bowl or something else simple like that. Hondas are a great motor and more trouble free than anything else, in my experience- it's well worth fixing!

[sprucebunny]

Barbender, one cylinder stops working, it idles badly or not at all, stumbles and stalls when going to idle. It has been a total pain. I replaced the carb about 2 engine hours ago with no improvement. I just ordered a new fuel pump for $10. And the coils earlier. I'm considering a new flywheel if those things don't fix it ($90)
Thanks

[beav]

I agree with barbender... It seems to me you have a moisture problem. If the coils rusted to the flywheel it's wet in there. I bet it is getting into the fuel system as well and causing your problems. I would scrape and sand the rust off of the coils and flywheel, get some new plugs, drain and replace the fuel (non ethanol please)  drain the carb, prolly polyurethane the coils and flywheel, add some seafoam, and then let er rip.
Your engine is barely broken in.
Maybe then a new cover too.
Honda's are as good as a small engine gets

[bushhog920]

 
my engine was making a bad grinding noise turned out to be a rat snake in the flywheel

  

 

[SwampDonkey]

Mincemeat pie? :D

[47sawdust]

My standby generator starts itself once a week and runs for 30 minutes.I believe sawmills or any other equipment with small engines would do well to be started and run at frequent intervals to keep the top end lubricated and exercise other moving parts.
My WM has a 24 hp. Honda on it.It has been a good motor.It frequently goes extended periods w/o use ,but it is in a covered mill shed and I have been exercising it more frequently.
Sorry for your troubles and I hope you get it sorted out.

[RAYAR]

Pull the fan shroud and see if the ignition coils are rusted to the magnets?

Yes, ignition coil(s) rusted to magnet. It turns now. Just have to figure out how to get rid of the mostly surface rust. Then I need to figure out why it always ran so crappy..... Should I just buy new coils ?

I'd rather work on a 6 cylinder anyday  :D

Do you keep this engine wrapped in plastic or non-breathable cover when not in use? This would contribute to the rusty coil condition.
Ray

[luap]

You say you replaced the carb, but what about the fuel shutoff solenoid? They will  get gunked up also.

[LeeB]

Change the plugs. My little splitter with a honda got to where it would run about a 5 minutes and then die. Then it would start right back up. As time went on it got worse and only run maybe 40-60 seconds, backfire and then die. Changed the plug and now it runs good again.

[Dana Stanley]

If the coils are rusted to the flywheel, as others states, your issues may have been rust and moisture on the flywheel/coils all along. New coils, and clean the flywheel good, it will likely run like a top. 

[btulloh]

Just checkin' in on your progress, SB.  Your engine must be purring like a kitten and makin' sawdust again.   8)