tractor for small time logging

[snowman]

 I'm looking for a tractor to log my 40 acres. Don't need high production just want to drag stuff to my sawmill.My trees avg 12 inch DBH and most of my skiddings downhill but not real steep. Great system of old skid trails are already in so moving dirts not a problem. At the moment im thinking 40 hp is what i need but they arn't cheap. Anyone ever try light logging with a small tractor like 20 - 30 hp? I also need it to be able to handle a backhoe attachment. My concern is id tear up a small tractor trying to drag logs so if any of you have experience with this micro logging thing id appreciate input.

[isassi]

All depends on budget. If I were you, and had no other use for the tractor (like agriculture work), I would search e-bay and locals for an older backhoe like an early 530 Case, ect. Gas engine and direct drive, low maintenance and they will hold there value. When you are done, sell it...My 530 will move about anything with one downside: groundclearance under the backhoe unit...but like I was always told, you can't have everything.  ;)

[Ironwood]

8N ford with a front loader (for counter balance), there are hoes out there for these as well. They are cheap and take some abuse. They are everywhere! Also, try to find a Sherman Hi lo Aux. tranny ($500 usually) I have drug lots with mine. GOOD CHEAP TRACTOR. Bullet proof clutch, I've easily toasted newer tractors clutches. Parts are Cheap Cheap, Electronic ignitions are out there and 12 volt conversions are easy. Reid

[Max sawdust]

I have a John Deere 855 wich is a 24 HP Yamar Diesel.  I keep it on very level ground and do not drive it off trail with a load.  I have a Farmi winch to skid log length or tree length to the trail where I pick them up in a modified bucket to be stacked at the landing.  Personally I do not like skidding larger logs behind the tractor, the flip over factor on hills scares me.  I have much better control with the bucked log in the bucket.

For what you are looking at doing I would consider getting a winch.  If you have too you can then get away with a smaller tractor, but if you have the funds get the 40HP you will not regret more HP.

My thoughts on the ideal set up for micro logging would be: 30-40 Hp tractor Farmi winch on the front, small forestry trailer with grapple on the back.

[Burlkraft]

The 8N's are a great little tractor.....Built like a tank.

With the right leverage you can do just about anything.

I have a friend who has a 30 horse Kubota w/loader and an arch and he moves some huge wood with that

He can't lift it but he sure can move it ;) ;) ;)

The Farmi winch is also a great suggestion

[Cedarman]

Get as big a tractor as you can afford.  I would recommend 45 to 55 horsepower.  There are a lot of good used tractors some 30 years old that will work fine.  A logging winch will pay great dividends in time saved and protecting the woods.  Also make sure you build a heavy duty roof and roll bar over the seat.  All it takes is for one pulled log to hit a tree with a dead top that comes down on the tractor to make a believer.  Also, make sure its wide front end.  Make an expanded steel mesh to cover the front to keep bent poles from skewering the radiator.

[slowzuki]

Almost anything over 20 hp will drag a 12" dbh log in dry conditions.  I recommend a logging winch for the 3 point hitch.  If you are clearcutting on level ground you could go with a grapple on the hitch instead.

I use a 50 hp kubota for my own logging work with a borrowed farmi winch.  I pull from the tops, in snow I can drag about 1/2 to 2/3 the weight of the tractor, on dry ground I can drag almost the tractor weight.

If I choke the butts and lift I can drag even more than the tractor weight but I prefer pulling from the tops since they winch with less hangups.

[nurseb]

I logged 10 acres of pine with a 19hp kubota about 10 years ago.   I'm doing a fuels reduction  project now where I am using the same tractor to yank out  fir and pine dbh 6" and 40 ft tall.   Kubotas are amazing!!!!!   I weave in and out of very tignt spots with that little rig.  It leave no ruts even in fairly wet ground.  I am skidding down hill however.   Any tractor is better than no tractor.  Any 4x4 will likely be better.  A 4X4 with loader better still.  A 4x4 with winch and grapple better still.  Intelligence, finesse, and patience combined with even small tractors can do amazing things!!! 

That said, I'd give careful thought to what and how much I wanted to do.   How much logging will you do?   HOw much log yard work?  Will you be farming at all or feeding livestock?  How much income are you generating?  Do you need to expense the tractor in one year or are you going to depreciate it?   When I get all my digging done, road work done, etc I'd like to be using a 50-60 hp with grapple and winch.  Till then I'm using a JD 555 

[woodmills1]

I have a kioti LK3054  30.5 hp 4 wheel drive.  Could I use more power......of course.....does it do a good job.....yes it does.  I dont skid though cause I have a metavic forwarding trailer that I tow.  Don't know what your budget is but check out payeur.com.  They package the kioti's with the metavic setting the tractors up with skid plates, FOPS and more.  If you can find one used at the right price like I did you will get good production.

[Ironwood]

Woodmills,

  My Dad has that tractor. It is the one I smoked the clutch on. I wish new tractors could be as well made as my old 8N. My Dad has had some other issues as well, castings and such. I snaped the rear main pin on a Kioti Backhoe rental unit (it was cast!!! What the #$%% is that about) I haven't been real impressed with most newer tractors quite frankly and some the parts are OUTRAGOUSLY EXPENSIVE, for that matter even costly on some older ones. I have big arms and a small budget, GIVE AN 8N!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


                Reid

[Grappletractor]

Snowman ,,,


What you need is something just like I have .......

picture exceeds forum limit
please use Forum Gallery


I would not try the case 530 w/ the 31 backhoe attachment for logging, ground clearence too low plus no protection for YOU unless you made some kind of hood for it that could take a large tree falling on it .

[Grappletractor]

This is a Massey Ferguson 31 with a Timberwolf factory installed logging attachment . Can easliy unbolted to return tractor to original condition.As you can see it has a grapple but not easliy seen is the winch.
DELETED BY ADMIN

DELETED BY ADMIN

Here's the winch
DELETED BY ADMIN
pictures exceed forum limit
please use Forum Gallery

[slowzuki]

That massey is interesting, never seen or heard of one before set up like that.  Still looks like it would get stuck pretty easy, what type of ground do you run it on?

I'm from and area where skidders get stuck sometimes although they can obviously pull themselves out usually.

[Grappletractor]

More pics of Mr. Grapple The Beast  :D


PICTURE LINKS DELETED

pictures exceed forum limit
please use Forum Gallery

[Grappletractor]

That massey is interesting, never seen or heard of one before set up like that.  Still looks like it would get stuck pretty easy, what type of ground do you run it on?

I'm from and area where skidders get stuck sometimes although they can obviously pull themselves out usually.

It would not be too good in swampy ground. If stuck I believe the winch could assist in getting her out. I cleared my lot for the new house with her and the grapple gripped onto a couple of 18 and better dia logs each some 70 feet or better in length and she pulled em down the hill pretty good .

[Ironwood]

Snowman,

  Actually, contact Dangerous Dan he has a NICE Massey with a loader. No three point, but truely nice. Price is good. He had it listed in the for sale section.

                                                       Reid

[RSteiner]

I used a Ford 8N and a Farmi winch for over 25 years of weekend logging and firewood gathering.  As many have already said it works real well in that role.  The center of gravity is low enough to take into the woods without having to worry about side hills and uneven ground.  If you cna find one equiped with a Sherman Hi-Lo transmission you will have a very nice machine.

The one draw back in using any farm tractor in the woods is a good cage over and around the operator.  Also, a floor pan to protect the operator from being speared from the ocassional stem that finds it way up is a good idea.  When pushing trees and brush with the loader many people have been smacked in the head by a branch or stem that slips off the bucket and up the loader arm, a good freind just about ended his life that way.

I now have a 30 HP Kubota with the same Farmi winch.  Four wheel drive is nice along with power steering but the one thing the newer tractors lack is weight an important ingredient when looking for traction.  Also the modern compact utility tractors do not have the wider wheel base as the older farm tractors of the same horse power, or less did.  This makes them a little less stable on uneven ground and side hills.

I do not know of one person who was ever sorry for buying a bigger tractor.  The older iron holds its value pretty good, the prices will sometimes seem pretty high.  Check out the used market there are some good deals out there.

Randy

[Murf]

Grappletractor's pictures of, well, errr, his grapple tractor   :D  bring up a very good point, one Reid touched on too.

The tractor in the pics has a massive frame that connects directly to the equally beefy rear axle housing.

If you use a standard, compact or small tractor for hauling logs, chances are the pull will be from the 3pth, and since you are trying to hoist and drag at the same time, a good part of the pull-power comes from the upper link.  :  This is not good.

The upper link is designed to be pushed against, not pull on. It will take relatively little pull-power compared to what the tractor is capable of producing to rip it off the tractor.  

I've seen those upper brackets ripped off from as little as hitting a frozen bump of dirt while clearing snow with a rear blade. It has no more strength than the cumulative shear strength of the few bolts that hold it in place.

The older tractors were a little stronger, but it's still pretty easy to bust them doin it wrong.

[Grappletractor]

Hey, you laughing at Grapple ? I'll put her up against some of these wimppy looking little modern tractors any day . :D

[Murf]

Laughing? Me? At poor ole' Grappie? Perish the thought!  :D

The only adjective I used was massive.  ;D

Nothing but tractor envy there.  ;)

Obviously built in a day when a dollar went further, and steel & diesel was cheaper though.  :D

[wesdor]

To address your original question - will a small tractor do the job you want?  (or something like that).

I bought a John Deere 4310 a year ago and have been using it to do much of what you describe.  (nothing bigger than 12 dbh and easy trails).  So far it has done a fine job.  I was going to suggest you look at a Kioti as well, but someone else has covered that.

A couple of suggestions.   First, be sure to get 4wd.  Second, I would want a gear drive tractor.  I probably am way too old school, but the hydrostatic drive just doesn't seem up to doing the kind of work I perceive you will be doing.  

Now if you could lay your hands on a grapple tractor cheap - that would really be a great answer - at least in my opinion.  Most of all, I'm hearing you say you have a lmited budget and that describes my situtaion as well.

Good luck.

[beenthere]

wesdor
I wouldn't turn away from the HST transmission, as I get along great with my Deere4300 in the woods pulling out logs, (and bigger than 12 dbh).  I used to have a gear transmission and could get around just fine with that too. But the HST is much handier to manuever, IMO.  The 4310 has the HST with the ehydro which will not let one kill the engine with overload.

The tractor that I have is not 'dressed' up well for woods work, and serious damage can happen to sticks poking into the underbelly and hooking hydro lines, and things.  A serious belly pan is needed for a better woods tractor, but so far I pick carefully where I go and avoid, if possible, driving over cut tops and brush.  But doesn't take much for a tire to kick up a stick and place it in the most tender spots on a tractor. Part of the game of logging with one. 

[slowzuki]

I'll add my 2 cents, my kubotas a hydro and not prepped for woods work. 

Using a winch and paying attention when cutting your skid trails you can keep any tractor looking new.

Try to use a chain and you have to put your machine places it likely shouldn't go.  It will get worked over worse than a little drunky mouthy guy who spits in the bouncers face.

The HST is nice in the woods.  No jerking, nice smooth movements.  Gear tranny is nice too.  If you can get R-4 industrial tires they usually have a much heavier case.  Ag tires tend to get popped on slash or small stumps.

Don't drive over slash.  You do it a few times and you get lazy, it will rip anything and everything off the underside.  You may not notice until your PS stops working after your idling tractor pumped the fluid out.

Using a winch and compact tractor 3 point hitches.  Pulling from the high point for heavy loads is a no-no, try to use the lower pulley.  When draging the logs out use the pull bar slots or lower pulley.

Have fun and be safe!

[Larry]

I dunno...my 100 HP 4020 JD didn't do a good job...to big and not nuff traction.  My 550 Oliver (similar to Ford 8-9 n's except the motor is on steroids) didn't do a good job either.  My 27 HP 4wd 1720 Ford doesn't do a good job...but does manage to get it done.  Up to 18" dbh tree length.  Somebody got an additional 30 hp and maybe another 1,500 pounds to add to it?  Suspect it would be perfect than.

Few pictures in my gallery.
https://forestryforum.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=527
Don't have a picture of my winch there...but if you do a search you will probably find a pic that I posted.

Spent today whacking off walnut trees and winching em out to my skid trails.  Gonna spend the day tomorrow skidding with the little 1720 so if ya want a pic let me know.

[maple flats]

I have used a 20 HP Ford 1500 4 x 4 ( about 2800 lbs as I have it plus the extra weights I add when needed) with a lot of extra weight when needed on the front(I have 99# always on the front bumper and have a bar that I add up to 200# more for heavy pulls, I don't leave weight on, no power steering and if not pulling too hard to steer) no loader. You do need to be real careful because flipping is a real possibility. I now use a 3 point log arch and have pulled whole trees with it if done as soon as the fall, limb them and pull @ up to 21" big end. I have no belly pan but it would be a good idea. When I pull, big or small I keep one hand on the lift arm control and keep my left foot on the trans case just above the clutch pedal. I also drag with 2 chains, 1 around the log for the arch to drag and a second from the fixed drawbar to to bottom of the log where it hooks to the other chain. I have chains on all four wheels and thus can pull a lot. Before I had the chains I could only pull about 1/2 the load I do now. As I pull I keep the log just off the ground and am always adjusting height as i drive. Not the best or easiest but this is all I have for now. I still occasionally get one hung up while dropping a tree where i need to borrow my brother's ASV with tracks, 70 HP and a log winch the we both own. My tractor does not have enough power to run the winch and I certainly could not carry the winch AND hook to a log and pull it. The only way I can do them this big now is with the log Arch which helps keep the weight real close to the back of the tractor. If I try to pull a heavy one and lift it very high the front spins without and weight on it, must keep the arms lower. This being said 20 HP is not very good for this. I do suggest 30 as a better choice for minimum. Oh, my extra weight is a pipe i mounted to the tractor on the front pipe on which I add 4-50# weight lifting plates?spring clamp, easy on easy off. My ground has almost no rocks and a lot of low spots, mostly black muckish stuff. I can not pull these areas during most of the year but mid winter and late summer I can. The rest of the time I must keep up a foot or 2 above the low spots and use more chain until I get it close enough to eliminate the extra chain.