DSI

[ohiowoodchuck]

This is just a rough guess, I could be off and don't take it as the gospel but it appears that my white oak gets about 1-2ft a year. I have one ridge top that has some ash on it and back in 2013 when I bought the place it was around 5-6ft and after a wind storm and knocking a few Virginia pines out of the way it appears to be around the 15-18ft margins. That's just a rough guess. I could be off and don't want to make it sound like I'm story telling. I'll get some pictures next time out. I really didn't think you guys would be interested in that kind of stuff, since it's not really logging so to speak. I just have a strong desire to have the place looking like it did when I was a kid before they veneered it in the 90's. I just hate the sight of a clear cut but understand it's purposes. I have one whole hill side that will probably get it due to small growth and not any really good trees. I have large stands of Virginia pine scattered out and I was going to knock them all down, but since there's no market that I can find. I'll just let them stand for roast trees for the turkeys. It sure is nice to stand on one hill side and look at the other in the fall and see all the oak still holding on to there leaves. It sure was depressing when I first bought the place though.

[mike_belben]

Underproductive land needs overproductive landowners.

[ohiowoodchuck]

That's true, but man is it a huge undertaking at times. Between working up in the woods, starting from scratch on building a house, putting in septic, water lines, electric etc plus working a full time job. It sure makes you just want to throw your hands up in the air. I could start a whole ten year plan thread of my own with the amount of work I've done and the pictures I got. I finally hired out some of my work. The Amish are supposed to come in March and frame up and dry in my pole barn.

[John Mc]

Thanks for the pointers stephen, id love a clearing saw but it isnt in the cards for now.  Someone gave me a broken stihl 55r i think it is and ive been hoping to get it fixed and put on a saw chain cutter head but no money for the parts it needs right now.

IMO, those saw chain cutter heads on a clearing saw are waste of time. The ones that look more like a circular saw blade are a whole lot more productive in the woods. Swamp Donkey and a couple others on there have a lot of experience with those saws. A few years ago, SD recommended a specific type/brand of replacement blade. I can't find the link right now, but think it was called a "Maxi" blade. It seemed to be a much better grade of steel and a whole lot more solid than the cheap blade that came with my clearing saw.

[Hans1]

 Great pictures and work being done. Does your area have any funding through the state for TSI work. I just got an approval for 35 acres of edge feathering on a Farm a recently purchased. The goals of the edge feathering is more habitat minded but I also use it to release some quality crop trees. 
  You are creating a show place as to what can be accomplished with hard work and dedication to the future generations. 

[mike_belben]

Yes, USDA equip program is one and i cant recall name of the other.  I do mention them when i am trying to sell TSI to big plot owners.  But theyre reimbursements and require money out of pocket for professional management plan, the reimbursement isnt guaranteed.  

In my case its not gonna stay forest, im building a business out front and a secluded cabin home out back.  

John, thanks for the info, ill do some research.  It wont bother me at all to make a circular saw adapter.   I have plenty of carbide steel demon blades for my worm drive that are too chunky for steel anymore but probably great in sapplings.  Id cut every other tooth if needed.

[mike_belben]

That's true, but man is it a huge undertaking at times. Between working up in the woods, starting from scratch on building a house, putting in septic, water lines, electric etc plus working a full time job. It sure makes you just want to throw your hands up in the air. I could start a whole ten year plan thread of my own with the amount of work I've done and the pictures I got. I finally hired out some of my work. The Amish are supposed to come in March and frame up and dry in my pole barn.

Ha.. I thought you were talking about me at first!  Wife and i had 2 kids, lost 2 houses and moved to a field 990 miles away. Id say ive made about 10 trips and have 20 to go.  Still have a machine shop to move.  Then probably my dad, so make that another 20. 
But, with future generations in mind, its been worth every bump and bruise.  My boy found a pair of axe heads in the dirt this morning and said dad can you make me an axe.  I said no, but ill make one for your son.  
The trees you leave behind will be a living messenger to the generation you never meet.  I want mine to say "i did this because i love you."

[TKehl]

Moving on to red maple.  Extremely prolific shade tolerant reproducer whose seed has no deer value im aware of.

Don't know about deer, but the goats will tear up the seeds the fall in the yard.  The kids have to get any helicopters they want before the goats come back for the night or they will not be one left.

Even so, not enough reason for me to leave them in the woods compared to the downsides.  The ones we have are in the yard that I planted when I was 8-10 years old.

[John Mc]

John, thanks for the info, ill do some research.  It wont bother me at all to make a circular saw adapter.   I have plenty of carbide steel demon blades for my worm drive that are too chunky for steel anymore but probably great in sapplings.  Id cut every other tooth if needed.

Do NOT use a regular Circular saw blade!! They cannot take the RPMs of a clearing saw (and they may not react well to hitting a rock) - you risk creating a shrapnel launcher.

Here is a link to the type of blade I am talking about:
Husqvarna Maxi Brush Cutter Blade

This is just one brand, and it may not fit the saw you have (OD of the blade and the arbor hole size vary among brands and models).

This Maxi-style blade seems to hold up better than Husqvarna Scarlet Blade. The Scarlet blade does not hold up as well as the Maxi style. However, both the Scarlett and Maxi cut better than the chainsaw style cutter blade, IMO.

(I am not liking the new way the forum handles links. No control over how it appears in the post, and I'm not sure why it's replacing some of the displayed text with "robot check") (EDIT: thanks Jeff - I went back and fixed how the links displayed based on your tip.)

[teakwood]

"Funny thing with the snakes is ive had more issues with them right in my living area than out in the brush.  I dont like snakes but after a few sleepless nights with mice scratching through the cabinets and ductwork, i realize me and black snakes can actually be pals.  As long as they stay out of my boots outside. "


never had a snake in my shoe but i sure hate it when a scorpion sleeps in it

[mike_belben]

Did see scorpions at 29 palms once, they can keep em!

Thanks for setting me straight john. 

[thecfarm]

I like to check on the maple suckers too. The deer can find them better than me.
I did a small thinning one winter. I cut the tree down and left the tops. I would haul out the so called logs. I would leave the tops over night or 2-3 days. Than haul the tops out and cut down some more trees. This was in an area that I did not want any brush on the ground. The tops was being hauled to a brush pile. The deer would chomp the ends of the limbs. I tried to leave 2-3 tops at a time. Don't want the deer to fight over them,which they will.

[lopet]

You just keep those little creatures in CR teakwood.

[teakwood]

They're not venomous it just hurts like hell for about 15min. I actually prefer a scorpion sting than a wasp or bee, for me there is no swelling on scorpion stings.

On the other hand my best friend get a sore tongue for 2 days if he gets stung by a dark scorpion. the clear ones aren't that bad    

[mike_belben]

So the dark ones dont like being licked then.  Noted.

[g_man]

You are doing a lot of good stuff there Mike. Everything seems really well thought out. One of our goals is being wildlife friendly too. Trying to nurse red oak saplings and poles along after the previous owner made a liquidation cut is a big thing. The other day while I was working in the area I released an old wild apple tree that sits in the middle of the woods. I believe in brush piles too. Rabbits, squirrels, turkeys, grouse, and some song birds like the winter wren, hermit thrush, oven bird, and white throated sparrow love them. But this is small stuff compared to what you are doing. 





gg

[John Mc]

G_man, you need to check out Vermont Coverts: Woodlands for Wildlife.  They have one of their 3 day training workshops coming up in May (Free food and lodging while you are there). It focuses on teaching landowners about managing for wildlife and a healthy forest, and integrating those goals with others such as timber value, recreation, etc. The May workshop is in Starksboro, just a few miles from my house.

[mike_belben]

Beautiful work!  That brush lodge is pretty sweet.  Would love to see summer pics around that apple clearing.  Deer are gonna love that. 

[g_man]

G_man, you need to check out Vermont Coverts: Woodlands for Wildlife.  They have one of their 3 day training workshops coming up in May (Free food and lodging while you are there). It focuses on teaching landowners about managing for wildlife and a healthy forest, and integrating those goals with others such as timber value, recreation, etc. The May workshop is in Starksboro, just a few miles from my house.

That is a good message to get out there to any one in or near VT interested in good land stewardship practices, the things John mentioned, and much more like invasives recognition and control. I was a member of the Spring 2008 class John, and have continued to learn more thru workshops and group visits to other land owners woodland to see what they do. Vermont Coverts: Woodlands for Wildlife is a great group.

gg

[thecfarm]

Might even be state money with what you are doing. You would have to open your land to the public,like walking trails. Seem like there was a memeber here or I spoke to someone about this. What stuck with me,The state is paying me to do what I was going to do anyways. ;D 

[John Mc]

Might even be state money with what you are doing. You would have to open your land to the public,like walking trails. Seem like there was a memeber here or I spoke to someone about this. What stuck with me,The state is paying me to do what I was going to do anyways. ;D

There is Federal money available through NRCS via the EQIP program for wildlife habitat management work. Here in VT, the NRCS office in the area will send out an expert to walk your land with you. They will provide you with a written recommendation of things you can do. It's then your decision whether to sign a contract and do the practices they recommend (either yourself or hire it done) and get reimbursed for some of the costs - or you can say "no thanks" and skip the contract. Even if you don't sign the contract and get the cost-sharing funds, you still end up with a great list of recommendations of things that are suited for your property.

[mike_belben]

Equip appeared to be the better paying of the two programs i investigated to help sell a tsi job.  I know for sure USDA had one.

[John Mc]

Equip appeared to be the better paying of the two programs i investigated to help sell a tsi job.  I know for sure USDA had one.

EQIP is wildlife focused, so is a good fit on the work you are describing, Mike. You can often get other TSI-related things included in it if they have some wildlife purpose (crop tree release, especially for mast trees which provide food for wildlife), patch cuts for early successional/regeneration purposes, etc. They also seem to be very interested in erosion control these days, so things like installing waterbars or broad-based dips, and possibly bridges and culverts may be eligible.

[John Mc]

G_man, you need to check out Vermont Coverts: Woodlands for Wildlife. ...

That is a good message to get out there to any one in or near VT interested in good land stewardship practices, the things John mentioned, and much more like invasives recognition and control. I was a member of the Spring 2008 class John, and have continued to learn more thru workshops and group visits to other land owners woodland to see what they do. Vermont Coverts: Woodlands for Wildlife is a great group.

gg

G_man - I suspect we have had this conversation before. I went through the training in 2002. I eventually served on their board and spent a couple years as president (2009-10). I recently rejoined the board after several years off.

There are similar programs in other states: I know NH has one, as does CT. I think MA has one. NY has the Master Forest Owners Program (Even if you don't go through the NY program, you can sign up to have one of the folks who have gone through it come walk your land with you to share experiences and swap ideas). Most of these programs are built around the idea of peer-to-peer networking: that is, landowners helping each other by sharing information and techniques. Most of the programs are run through their state's forestry extension programs. Vermont's is unique in that it spun off and has been an independent non-profit for the last couple of decades.

For anyone who is interested, the Resources & Links page on the VT Coverts site has links to programs in other states (mostly New England). That links page is currently missing the New York Master Forest Owner's program, but you can find that with a simple google search.

[mike_belben]

Found a doe today.  what the coyotes left of her, unfortunately. Thats the third full grown deer ive found, nevermind the ones i havent.  Really need to trim them dogs back pretty soon.  


So i kinda profiled the characteristics ive found with hickory, black gum and red maple earlier.  Ill get back to that series with poplar.  One strength is it grows really fast and straight without being bushy.  Its like the pine of a hardwood forest, you can fit many stems in a small space. A poplar sappling stand reminds me of a bamboo forest.  Theyre as thirsty as maple and love being neer creeks.   They sprout a lot of vertical branches when hinge cut or pinned down and have big broad leaves that are exceptional at providing visual cover.  If i need a green wall somewhere, like to block deer's line of sight for me to get to a stand, a snapped off or twisty poplar is my first choice to hinge cut.   

I dont think they provide much in the way of deer food, but i will have to monitor that this summer to be sure.  Perhaps theyll eat the leaves.  Definitely no signs of interest in bud tips.  I imagine poplar is pretty important for birds and bees but dont hold me to it.

This is one year old growth.



Funny thing about coppiced poplar, its kinda kinked and twisty.  Natural seedlings come up much straighter in single stems most of the time.  Below is a pair of antennas that sprouting off a culled sappling stump.  Note the kinks






Bottom one that has already coppiced i hinged a year ago, top one last week to open up better shooting lane.  You can see the railing and steps on that gum tree in background.




That tangle in back ground is a bedding area.  One of many now.