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Where should I buy logs for milling to be used for a timber frame barn?

Started by LetsBuild, December 31, 2013, 01:24:08 PM

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LetsBuild

I am planning on buying a WM LT35HD with the intent to build three buildings. A 36x60 shop, a 36x80 gambrel roof barn and a cape cod style home (all timber framed).

I would like to know what kind of wood I should be using. I am leaning towards Douglas Fir or White Pine.

I would like to know who I might go through to get it. (I live in Western NY)

How much would it cost roughly for the wood and what is the typical delivery cost? Is Douglas Fir a lot more than white pine?

I want to be able to saw large timbers and be free of heart so larger pine would be needed....would fir be better than white pine then?

Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!!

Brian_Weekley

Welcome to the forum.

I would choose trees native to your area.  White pine or hemlock would be local choices in NY.  Beams 6x6 or larger are typically heartcut for timber framing.  The sawyers and experienced timber framers will give you the expert advice.
e aho laula

Dave Shepard

I agree with Brian, use a local species. White pine is my favorite. It's nice to work and very forgiving regarding internal stresses and drying. Hemlock is stronger, a little bit trickier to work, and can be splintery in the finished product. It can also have shake, which is a sort of delamination of the rings. I wouldn't use it in the house, barns would be better as long as you don't rub up against the timbers too often. :D
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ChadS

If you plan on using the barn for horses use hemlock it will reduce the potential for the horses to crib . I would also use green hemlock in roofing purlins if you are using metal roofing.once the wood dries  you will never get the  roofing fasteners out. For the shop I would use white pine and the house I would use white pine or red oak if you want to be fancy. White pine seems like an easy wood for beginners.

S.Hyland

I am in WNY as well and I get all my timber locally. I wouldn't try to get free of heart for anything thicker than 6", like Brian said. Logs for free of heart timbers are going to be really hard to find and prohibitive in price. Just out of curiosity, why were you wanting all free of heart timbers? 
A local equivalent to Doug Fir is Larch. Larch looks very much like Doug Fir and is fairly close on strength. I use it pretty frequently. However, it does have a tendency to twist, which should be accounted for in the joinery, and also has a higher rate of shrinkage than something like Pine, so it does check more.
White Pine, while not particularly strong, is easy to work and has a low rate of shrinkage. Consequently, it has relatively few checks and is also very stable dimensionally ( less chance of twisting, bowing, etc.). It's a good wood for timber framing!
Regardless of species, you want winter cut logs. It makes a difference.
I would talk to local loggers and foresters about log supply. Depending on where you are in NY I might be able to give you specific names of guys I know.
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LetsBuild

Thank you guys for the posts!

S.Hyland I was told that logs free of heart are the best because they will not twist or bow. Since I am new to this maybe I took those words as gospel when I shouldn't have. I have the feeling that the process is going to be a little slow so I wanted lumber that wouldn't change shape much from the time the beams are made to raising. I would be interested in knowing some names of guys you have liked working with. (I am about 30 miles south of Rochester).


Thehardway

I was born in Batavia, NY and lived in Hamlin/Brockport area.  Lots of relatives in the Attica area.  We used to have some real nice Hemlock stands near Attica.  Its been 40 years since I was there so I don;t know if the blight has got them all or not.  You should have a pretty good selection of species available locally but Douglas Fir will not be one of them.  I would cross Doug Fir off the list unless you want to pay a small fortune to have it shipped in from out west and at that point it would not be cost effective. As mentioned, maybe some Larch would substitute.

Most TF work is now done with Boxed Heart.

The Free of Heart wood is good only in cases where you had very large first growth timber and it has been well dried and is stable.  Out west there was a good bit of TF done from first growth Fir and Redwood but you are talking about trees that were way larger than you would be sawing on your LT 35.  You might find some Oak or Maple that you could saw FOHC but IMHO it would still be better as Boxed Heart Center because you are going to be using it in a relatively green state and you want shrinkage to be uniform, By boxing the heart, you have even shrinkage on all sides unless the tree had a lot of internal stress.

EWP, Hemlock, Red Oak, Black Oak, White Oak, Maple, Cherry, Yellow (tulip)Poplar, Ash, Yellow Pine, Walnut.  All are suitable for various parts of frames and use of a variety can give a beautiful look.

Posts are best made of hardwood, softwoods can be used but they will be larger and take up more floorspace for equivalent strength.  Horizontal beams are best made with high strength to weight species unless you want a massive look.

You might want to give the Folks at Hud-Son forest equipment (one of the board sponsors and not far from you, just east of Rome) and ask them if they have any equipment owners near you as they sell looging trailers and log handling equipment.   Talk to some small time loggers and strike a deal. If you are closer than the mill they are hauling to, you can likely get a pretty good deal. My advice is make your cut list and select species by use.  Secure what you can locally.  Maybe buy one load of 16' oak logs for posts and a load EWP or hemlock for horizontal beams, and a load of Poplar for siding.  Fill in all the scantlings and braces with maple, cherry, walnut, etc. that you can get cutting down trees for the neighbors or scavenging cutovers blowdowns, etc. If you must have EWP, there is some very high quality stuff available to the north of you in the Adirondack region if you are willing to pay to have it trucked down.

Honestly you are best to select and cut your own trees once you know what you are looking for.  Lots of the twisting and warping issues come from trees that have spiral grain or grew in challenging situations.  Picking your own trees eliminates some of the guess work.

Part of your thought should be how to unload the logs and move them to your saw as well.  Smaller loggers often use trucks or trailers with a grapple and can handle that part of the project. 

Have fun and be safe.   Big logs can hurt you pretty bad.
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