Wheel loader to support sawmill

[Dave Shepard]

 If you have all this equipment, your mobilization cost  will be huge. How large are these sawing jobs going to be?

[Brucer]

I've used a Cat 910 loader for several years and it's a great machine. The only downside is that I need to pull 4 pins to switch from the bucket to the forks. Other than that it's done everything I asked it to.

Be aware that the loader geometry won't keep a set of forks parallel to the ground as you raise them. If you're trying to load a truck, or stack lifts of lumber, you will have to tilt the forks as you lift them.

Some numbers from the Cat performance handbook:
  Static tipping load - straight ahead - 10,000 pounds
  Static tipping load - full turn - 9200 pounds.
  Operating weight - 14,200 pounds.
  Engine - 3204 - 65 HP.

I regularly moved 52' Douglas-Fir logs with the forks set 60" wide. Just had to get the log's balance point correct (and drive slowly).

A couple of times I tried to pick a log out of the bottom of a pile that was frozen together -- lifted the back end of the machine with no trouble :D.

Something else to check out. The 910 comes in two versions -- conventional 3 speeds forward / 1 reverse, or 3 forward / 3 back. The guy I rent my machine from has one of each and I've worked with both of them.

The 3 & 3 transmission shifts forward / reverse by moving the lever in the appropriate direction. The gear selection is done by rotating the handle on the shift lever. This lets you shift forward or backward in the same gear.

[barbender]

Moving a 16,000 pound machine on a 1 ton/20K gooseneck is doable, I've hauled my 17K skidder on my 14k gooseneck, just get plenty of the weight on the rear axle of the truck and it's ok- but not every day. And that's on flat ground, I don't think I'd want that load behind me in mountains. In fact, I KNOW I wouldn't. Not to mention, you will be working the snot out of your truck's drivetrain. How will you be reimbursed for that? I think (my opinion, it's free ;)) you are putting yourself out too much, and asking too many things of one machine. I've been proven wrong many a time, though. If you find a niche skidding, decking and sawing customer's logs (you do have high value timber you're working with, that's certainly a plus) and can make money at all phases of the operation, that would be a nice gig. I hope it works for you.

[ButchC]

I have a W11B and it is ALL I want behind my 1 ton truck and 14,000 GVW gooseneck trailer when hauling both bucket and forks however it does have the optional heavy counter weight due to having a quick tach and I have forks and a bucket. I have no idea what it is rated for lifting but I just this week handled some 40" x 12' Maple logs and it was childs play for it.  We use it a lot and it has been trouble free, dont know what else to say about it? The quick attach is proprietary and the only minus.

[mdo]

Ohio_bill

Excellent machine AC 840.  Fits on a 10 ton trailer, but do NOT pull it with a one ton truck.  Mine has moved thousands of wood processing logs safely,  Huge amounts of big round bales and even more manure.  Add grapples to that loader and is a mean machine.  Old and dependable.  I see you are a senior member and also a junior to me.   I am about 2 1/2 hrs north of you and around Wooster. 

[T-mobile dimension]

Longtime lurker,
I hate to say it but your schedule is spot on with my thought process. I actually have a 99 t800 kenworth that was going to be turned into a water truck but decided against that so it's for sell. I am trying to keep this operation very simple and as low overhead so I though the truck can go. Maybe I should keep it???  I got great deal on it

Brucer,
The 910 sounds better and better. Do you think the 3 speed reverse version is worth having?  I was thinking it might be unnecessary and more to break?
Also I have seen a few IT12's for sale, they look just like a 910. I think they weigh closer to 16500 though, I can't imagen the different loader arm itself adds 2000 lbs compared to the 910. Does anyone know where the extra weight comes from. Maybe it is all around a little bigger? 
As for all the reach lift suggestions I think they are too expensive for my budget at this time.  These old wheel loaders seem to cost half as much so I am leaning there way. There was someone selling s couple old pettibone reach lifts fir $8k. I didn't know I'd parts were available for them though.

ButchC, 
The w11b seems like it would be very economical to maintain. I know the cummins motor very well and I think the whole machine is pieced together with common parts that are used in other brands of equipment as well.  The other thing that is very very appealing is how easy they are to get in and out of the cab. Only concern was it being too small.  It is rated for 3800 lbs  but that 40" maple log must have been a lot heavier than that?  Sorry I have no experience with maple.

What most of my business is going to come from are 3 acre land conversions. Maybe you guys have heard about the cannabis/marijuana industry that is taking over our county?  The county decideded to hand out permits to allow people to commercially grow cannibus. They are allowed to clear up to 3 acres of timber land and we have thousands of 3 acre cuts going on. The problem we have is
#1 most didn't get a timber harvest permit to sell the trees
#2 most of our mills shut down here. The ones that are left have this thing going on where they only buy logs from certified sustainable forests.  If you cut a tree you have to replant two more or something. Clearing land to grow pot doesn't count as sustainable.
I think it is a short lived industry because there is nothing economical about farming in the mountains where there is no water!!!  However I got nothing else going on right now so I think I'm going for it. They are building houses out there, they have logs and they need lumber. It seems like a no brainer right? 
Tons of useful information here thank you all

[TKehl]

Here is my contrarian view.   :-\

A lot of people like the MD mills for portability.  Instead of hauling equipment, have you thought about a log arch/winch for your pickup to move most of the logs.  Anything too large to move that way, set your mill up around the log using a winch to roll it away from the rest of the trunk.  Of course, I don't know your climate or terrain.  May require a tractor or UTV +arch instead of a truck.  Maybe a more portable mill (Lucas/Peterson/Turbo) mill makes sense.

The loggers around here don't want to move a skidder for less than 10-15 acres (unless it's good walnut).  I'm hearing you want to move it for 3 or less.  I wouldn't be excited about that.

Next question:  Does the target market have money?  My guess is a large percentage will want you to cut on shares.  In my head I picture a target market that eat LOVE for lunch and PEACE for supper with lots of time and labor available, but shallow pockets.   :D  Or I could have a preclusion for stereotypes of what I saw in college?   ???  It is also possible that both are correct.   :

[T-mobile dimension]

These growers are unlike the hippies of yesterday. They have been doing this all along but they are no longer hiding because it is "legal".  For the last 3-4 years the norm would be to grow several hundred pounds of there "flowers" each year and sell for $1500-2000 each lb. what I see is they have all lost the concept of saving money or spending it sensibly.  Many  buy a brand new $60000+ Diesel pickup and have it totally trashed 6 months later, but that is  ok they will get a better one next fall lol.  This is why I believe it is short lived. As soon as real farmers get ahold of the market these other want-to-be farmers will run out of money in a matter of months or less. It is actually comical to me.  I think I have a few years of busy times though but I could be wrong.

[nativewolf]

You have to like selling to a cash rich client base that can't report it for tax reasons, what else are they going to do with the money 8); hire someone to mill lumber! 

Sounds like a very good plan to me.  In fact, I'd see about putting together a nice wood drying shed, long long one.  These folks could be cutting some really nice stuff on little lots and it could be high dollar lumber if you could aggregate together a container load every month.  Ship it to Japan or down the coast to SF or LA. 

[ButchC]

Not sure if this helps you bu had the 11B out so I picked up some logs that were handy, sorry nothing huge but it handled these Ash 14-18" logs easily. I think an 11B would do anything you need. Problem is the smaller used machines often cost more than larger ones. Mine has  2 auxiliary valves and the quick hitch that I believe are optional.

[T-mobile dimension]

Well I thought I had my mind made on the W11b case yesterday,  then I took my mill to the next job.
I stood in front of the butt cut for perspective. I am 6'-0" and it almost comes to my shoulder. The customer wants everything to be left in 20 foot lengths.
If I could drag this one and roll it into the mill that would be ok. I don't know if I could do that though. Probably just set up over it. 

w

[paul case]

Wow, has that thing got some thick bark or what? Peel that off and it might only come to your waist!

PC

[T-mobile dimension]

Yeah that one is 48" of wood. But the bark is nearly 6" thick.

[barbender]

Looks like some serious taper, too!

[longtime lurker]

Looks like around here so far as equipment needs. You could do 80% of the logs with a little machine but the other 20% comprise half the volume of wood and you got to have big machines to handle them.

I'd be thinking home made, outsized, reinforced to a fare thee well, log arch for shifting them. Dont need much machine to drag them around once you got the nose of the log up. And similarly you dont need much machine to roll them up skids, or you cn lift one end of the log around at a time if you need to. All takes time which is money of course but if its occasional big logs you can do it that way.

But if you get a lot of those bigger logs you better keep the KW.... you're going to need it to haul your 950 sized loader around. :D

[Darrel]

Well I thought I had my mind made on the W11b case yesterday,  then I took my mill to the next job.
I stood in front of the butt cut for perspective. I am 6'-0" and it almost comes to my shoulder. The customer wants everything to be left in 20 foot lengths.
If I could drag this one and roll it into the mill that would be ok. I don't know if I could do that though. Probably just set up over it. 

w

This reminds me of Pacific Lumbers logging train when I was a kid. It would take the whole train just to hall one tree from Yager creek to the mill in Scotia.

[JustinW_NZ]

So - so true..

We went down the path a bought a machine a little bigger than the 910cat (10 ton - cat924 class?)
If we need to it gets moved via truck and the customer pays as part of the job.
HOWEVER we have just spent a year at the last job so that easily makes it worth it....
For something close and local i would drive it to site as it is road legal.

I find the slightly bigger machine a lot safer at moving the bigger logs and also i dont like to be 'on the edge' while positioning logs on the mill as if the machine and log tips forward on the road, no foul, but if it does it onto your expensive mill?!?!

Quickhitch in my books is fantastic too - Usualy find on site theres other work that people will hire the loader for - moving dirt or gravel etc...
I also find the loader way faster at moving wood bundles and placing than our small or large forklifts.

We bought the machine new - so yes it came at a cost, BUT it is the only thing I hardly ever put a spanner too though and it seems to be a good advertisement.

Cheers
Justin

Looks like around here so far as equipment needs. You could do 80% of the logs with a little machine but the other 20% comprise half the volume of wood and you got to have big machines to handle them.

I'd be thinking home made, outsized, reinforced to a fare thee well, log arch for shifting them. Dont need much machine to drag them around once you got the nose of the log up. And similarly you dont need much machine to roll them up skids, or you cn lift one end of the log around at a time if you need to. All takes time which is money of course but if its occasional big logs you can do it that way.

But if you get a lot of those bigger logs you better keep the KW.... you're going to need it to haul your 950 sized loader around. :D

[T-mobile dimension]

Alright I pulled the trigger on the W11b. Being able to move it with my pickup was ultimately what sold me on it.  It is as easy to jump in and out as a pickup, which seems way more convenient than the narrow ladder going up the 910.   I might be building a logging arch to move the big pigs
I'll post pics when i get it home

[T-mobile dimension]

I have been using my loader for a couple weeks so I wanted to fallow up on the forum. So far I really like it. It will pick up a big log though I have found the limit. A 36"x18 foot redwood log got the back tires off the ground. Logs a few inches in dia. smaller it had no problem if I had the rear tires loaded and on flat ground I think it would have lifted it.
I like how low the cab is. I am constant jumping in and out when I am positioning a log or stack of lumber and this loader is nice for that. None step and you are in the cab. With the cab on the front half the visibility is good though I find that I have to look behind me to see if I am articulated or straight when I am maneuvering in tight places. Not a big deal but something I dislike. The cat 910 I was considering is built much more heavy duty than the cases. the cat frame looks like it is 1-1/2 solid steel where the case is 1/4".  All in all though I am pleased. Total price after shipping was 13,800
Hours

[Darrel]

Thanks for the pictures. That looks to me like a pretty sweet piece of equipment.