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Timbco 415ex??

Started by Firewoodjoe, July 24, 2021, 12:09:38 PM

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Firewoodjoe

Still looking into a harvester on and off. I don't think it will pay but everyone here makes it work. Anyways. 2005 Sisu engine. Good? Bad? Parts through Komatsu I assume? 

chevytaHOE5674

Nothing bad about the Sisu motors. They are owned by Agco and used in various tractors and other equipment so parts shouldn't be a concern.

What head?

Firewoodjoe

Fabtek 4 roller. The machine is actually much nicer than I expected for the hours. 35,000 but a lot has been done in the last 3 years. New engine and newer head. Every 4 roller I've looked at even low hour cat 501s are busted up. This isn't. It looks to be just starting in places as the paint is cracked. But hasn't been fixed anywheres. The machines showes zero problems. I couldn't find anything loose or worn. Pins and bushing are prolly 75-80% and I'd put the drive sprockets at 50%. All hoses look the be fairly new. It was being used daily. They updated to a 501. 

mike_belben

Thats some impressive hours.
Praise The Lord

Firewoodjoe

It sure is. But is a high hour machine in good shape with papers to show replacements better or worse than a 10,000-15,000 hr machine with mostly original components. The wear parts have already been replaced. Tight and right is tight and right no matter the hours. I'm I wrong? I don't know. Like I said I was quit surprised at the condition with the hours it has. I've look at 2014s with 3-4,000 hours in worse shape. And 3 times the money. 

mike_belben

Its hard to say whether any machine will be a cherry or a lemon. Who can know?
Praise The Lord

Corley5

There's a reason it's for sale.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Firewoodjoe

Quote from: Corley5 on July 24, 2021, 03:36:02 PM
There's a reason it's for sale.
Isn't everything for sale for a reason? 

Firewoodjoe

Besides it must have been a good one. That's a full work week all it's life. Not much down time. 

chevytaHOE5674

Or a lot of double shifting after down time. Ran 2 20k+ hour processors, and a 40k+ hour forwarder. All three ran daily but required a good bit of TLC and tinkering to keep running. 

Corley5

I wouldn't touch a 35,000 hour processor with a 20 foot pole.  I don't care how it's been cared for.  Do you want to produce wood or wrench on an old processor?  That's enough hours that metal fatigue in the super structure would be a concern.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Skeans1

Has the rotax been placed in the head and the carrier? Personally with that high of hours I wouldn't touch it, if the welds are done right you'd never tell the difference. With those hours I'd be willing to be the boom has been repaired. I'd check on valve as well as pump parts for availability as well.

chevytaHOE5674

If its the one at Lutkes for 75k you can get one with a whole lot less hours for the same money. I think Kip at Pat's Heavy Equipment has a couple with Rolly IIs for around that prices with a whole lot less hours.

From experience there is no such things as a "cheap" processor. There's expensive low hour sit and produce equipment and "cheap" wrench on it and pray you can produce equipment. 


Firewoodjoe

I understand. But some of you guys say "how many years will your body handle hand cutting" then you say "don't buy a cheap processor" so what's left, rob a bank lol i don't have rich people to help me or anything lol

barbender

You don't want to start out in an old processor like that. It would be one thing if you had grown old together, and you knew it's quirks. But even then, it gets to the point you are paying more for parts than payments on a newer one, not to mention the lost production. That thing will wreck you.
Too many irons in the fire

Firewoodjoe

Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on July 24, 2021, 06:32:01 PM
If its the one at Lutkes for 75k you can get one with a whole lot less hours for the same money. I think Kip at Pat's Heavy Equipment has a couple with Rolly IIs for around that prices with a whole lot less hours.

From experience there is no such things as a "cheap" processor. There's expensive low hour sit and produce equipment and "cheap" wrench on it and pray you can produce equipment.
So that '07 with 8100 hours would be safer? The way I look at that is it must have sat around a lot if those hours are accurate and if it is accurate than it most likely has all original components. So in the next 2-4,000 hours I may put a lot of major parts into. Already needs under carriage. And I bet if it was looked at in person it's got problems. I don't know what the answer is but I do know I've seen low hour headaches. Past 10,000 hours there all the same. And "bad infrastructure" well my equipment should fold right up then 😂 Thanks guys prolly keep looking and saving. 

mike_belben

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on July 24, 2021, 07:33:05 PM
I understand. But some of you guys say "how many years will your body handle hand cutting" then you say "don't buy a cheap processor" so what's left, rob a bank lol i don't have rich people to help me or anything lol
Its a catch 22 isnt it?  Buy the machines to save your body, then work 10 extra years to finance it and not lose your collateral.
The banks sure have it figured out. 
Praise The Lord

chevytaHOE5674

When your looking in that price range they all have problems. Just a matter of how minor or major. Personally I'd rather do an undercarriage over say chasing down a glitchy measuring system, or resealing pumps and valve bodies.

Personally I'd never buy a fabtek 4 roller on anything. If going fixed head it would be a logmax 7000 or possibly a Rolly 2. Then again I'd probably never buy a fixed head tracked carrier either.

Corley5

Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

teakwood

Quote from: Firewoodjoe on July 25, 2021, 07:52:04 AM
Quote from: chevytaHOE5674 on July 24, 2021, 06:32:01 PM
If its the one at Lutkes for 75k you can get one with a whole lot less hours for the same money. I think Kip at Pat's Heavy Equipment has a couple with Rolly IIs for around that prices with a whole lot less hours.

From experience there is no such things as a "cheap" processor. There's expensive low hour sit and produce equipment and "cheap" wrench on it and pray you can produce equipment.
So that '07 with 8100 hours would be safer? The way I look at that is it must have sat around a lot if those hours are accurate and if it is accurate than it most likely has all original components. So in the next 2-4,000 hours I may put a lot of major parts into. Already needs under carriage. And I bet if it was looked at in person it's got problems. I don't know what the answer is but I do know I've seen low hour headaches. Past 10,000 hours there all the same. And "bad infrastructure" well my equipment should fold right up then 😂 Thanks guys prolly keep looking and saving.
the 07 with 8100h isn't safer. after 8000h every machine starts giving troubles and things to tinker on. very valid points from every member here, you have some good points too!
the problem with 35k hours is that every component that hasn't been changed could start to give problems, even metal parts and original welds. every seal, oring, retainer, hose, slewing bearing, the list goes on and on.
My excavator has 8k hours but 21 years old, after sitting for 2years i had to attend several problems, i was already looking for never machines because it was one thing after another. now i fixed everything and she works again as a beauty she is, but i don't fool myself, a 20+ year old machine will sooner or later give me problems again  
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

mike_belben

Quote from: Corley5 on July 25, 2021, 10:04:02 AM
Roll the dice.
Thats it.  


If you cant or wont repair iron you better not buy any.  


My ideal score is a machine that was maintained all along and the owner just got tired of maintaining and is selling it broke, at the broke price, with lots of recent parts.  I cant afford the working price is todays free money bubble market world.    Its especially ideal if i knew the machine to truly be running rather than a stranger.  


Guys say if you can afford a new one you can afford an old one. Hey in 1979 that was some great advice.  Will it still be in 2029 when even the dealers are struggling to figure out the new technology's new problems?  



The corporate side of the trucking industry has decided brand new trucks are only a good bet when traded at about 1/4 of a typical bigrig life cycle for another new one. The steep payment is calculated into operating so the product has to be able to cover that or else yoire just borrowing to have a job. Big trucking companies are debt leveraged and many go belly up at every downturn.


Imo an overwhelming majority of the independant owner op mom n pop trucking outfits have made the best of inhouse rebuilding their good old simple reliable pre-emissions trucks and have survived many market cycles without the debt leveraging.  The problem theyre facing is the good drivers are retired or running their own rigs now, that whole generation is fading away, and all are failing to find good hired drivers.   

The schools are turning out drivers not suitable for 500+ hp old trucks with splitters to tear up, and theyre too whiny to live without APUs and TVs and standup bunks. so labor is whats forcing the adoption of newer trucks, not superior technology.  Many times ive heard 'im done whenever this truck is.'


As the emissions and electronics get further and further advanced that new machine is less and less reliable and repairable by fewer and fewer people at higher and higher cost.  So i posit that the cost/benefit curve of the buy new option is fading every year. With every "industry advancement" the dealers advertise.   
Praise The Lord

stavebuyer

I agree with you about the newer stuff Mike, but the problem is that we have arrived at the time that the "old" is getting so old that is no longer a reliable option either.

I think you almost have to base your business on that equipment you bought is obsolete the day the factory warranty expires. If you can't afford to trade and upgrade to new whenever that day comes your business model is going to fail. The 1979 advice still rings true. I don't like it but you can no longer farm with an H or 8N, log full time with a JD440A, or run a dirt work business with a D4C.

To succeed with the antiques you need uncommon mechanical skill and the drive to work long days 7 days/week to overcome the repairs and limited functionality in order to accumulate some sweat equity into newer stuff and keep on doubling down and hope to cash out before a bad cycle crushes you.


chevytaHOE5674

Buddy of mine ran an old timbco/rolly 2 setup. He worked 7 days a week 12+ hours a day between wrenching, sourcing parts, welding, fabricating, running for parts, and then cutting wood. Over 3 years of that he said he averaged 4~5 loads of wood a week. 

Late last year he got fed up borrowed a pile of money and bought a refurbished Ponsse with large payments to go with. Now he works 5 days a week 10 hours a day and cuts 15~20+ loads a week. He goes home at night and enjoys other hobbies and goes fishing on the weekend.
He is fully aware that by the time he gets some equity in the machine it will be time for it to his the road.

mike_belben

Right.  Its danged if ya do danged if ya dont and roll the dice on the rest.  No guarantees any direction you choose
Praise The Lord

barbender

Mike I would agree with you on repair/refurbish most of the time, but not on CTL processors. If you're going to play the CTL game get something low hour. Rather than buy an old one, you may as well hire on as a mobile mechanic for someone, that's all you will be doing anyways. At least that way you'll get paid for it. A buddy of mine just parked his '03 Ponsse Ergo, it is probably approaching 40K hours. It was producing wood the day it got parked, and as soon as it came to a stop he was selling parts off of it. Because the value of a harvester with that many hours is so low, he figured he'd hang on to the engine and main pumps that were replaced in the last 2000 hours, and sell off the parts that aren't interchangeable with his new machine. I know several guys with high hour machines like that. The only reason they can make it is they have "grown old together" in a manner of speaking, and they know them inside out and all of the machines quirks. If you tried jumping in one of those as your first harvester, I just don't think you're going to make it. If you you can't afford at least a $250K dollar harvester, you can't afford a harvester at all is how I look at it.
Too many irons in the fire

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