Standard MS461 or wait for the CM version? Pro's & Con's of Mtronic?

[joe_indi]

What I understand is the new MS382 is based on the MS461 design and alot of their parts interchange.
So if the non M-Tronic 461 can be sold here the 382 should make it too.

The 382 uses the 038 (1119) platform, with modifications for several parts from the 046/460 (1228).
The notable change are on the clutch side. The drum comes off with the removal of an E-clip like in a 460. The drum is a 1128 not a 1119. So also the clutch. The biggest change is the oil pump. The oil pump no longer sits on the side to be driven by the spur and worm gears. It (a 1128) is fitted like on a 460 beneath the clutch, driven by the same worm as on a 460. Brake too is now much simpler. And no more cover with numerous screws to access the clutch area. It has a cover that resembles a 361/362 piece. The starter pawls, rotor, spring etc are all 1128, no longer 1119. And the flywheel has been remolded to engage the smaller 1128 pawls.
The crankcase has lots of mods especially in the cylinder area, to use the entirely new cylinders. 2 stroke has no stratification. 2 mix is exhaust stratified quite similar, as Holmen mentioned to the 461. I saw the 2 stroke version, which had the same 2 pole ignition like the 460. But I suppose the 2 mix version will have the 3 pole unit as in the 461. The piston remains a 52mm with some differences.
The exhaust is ported wide (dual ports), so everyone gets to know when you start up the saw  :D.
But  the 2 mix version may have something different, and if the 461 is the yardstick, I thing it would have a restricted port.
What is noticeable is the highly improved acceleration, in spite of the all metal flywheel.
I wonder what would be the performance of the 2 mix version with its stratification and electronically controlled ignition timing.
The 2 stroke version is a real bundle of power for a 72cc for its size. And if prized right it would give everything in its class a run for their money.

[ZeroJunk]

What is 2 Mix ?   That terminology is new to me.



Never mind, I see Stihl has a page on it.

[HolmenTree]

Thanks Joe, that's a lot of good information.
Now I see how they got the weight down to 13.6 lbs. Very light for a 72cc saw so I'm  seeing this saw is designed for the pro market

I sure hope we get them here.

[WoodBurner19]

Yes thanks Joe great information. Looks like I may wait a little bit for these versions to come out

[SawTroll]

Thanks Joe, that's a lot of good information.
Now I see how they got the weight down to 13.6 lbs. Very light for a 72cc saw so I'm  seeing this saw is designed for the pro market

I sure hope we get them here.

Looks like the 382 has lost almost a pound of weight compared to the 381, but the power specs still are the same 3.9 kW/5.3 hp. That still compares favorably to the 3.6 kW of the 038 Mag II though.

[HolmenTree]

Yes just eliminating that old oil pump design with the all the spur and gear drives, and the over built chain brake would save alot of weight.
But that old design as over built as it was, was as good as aircraft quality in my opinion. Longevity has been proven as 30 year old 038 saws are still working today.

I don't know if there is room for both a new totally redesigned MS442 and MS382 in the North American 70cc market.
The consumer would have excellent choice though. One would be the Ferrari in softwood logging and the other a John Deere in hardwood logging and firewood. 

[joe_indi]

Looks like the 382 has lost almost a pound of weight compared to the 381, but the power specs still are the same 3.9 kW/5.3 hp. That still compares favorably to the 3.6 kW of the 038 Mag II though.

Yes, bore is the same and stroke (maybe ) too. So it delivers 5.3bhp, but how!
The new cylinder and crankcase (interior) designs make a lot of difference in how that 5.3bhp is delivered, with nearly 20% less fuel.
Let it reach the shops here, I will upload some very interesting pictures that would explain the real differences between the 381 and 382, that is if Holmen doesnt beat me to it.  :D

[SawTroll]

Looks like the 382 has lost almost a pound of weight compared to the 381, but the power specs still are the same 3.9 kW/5.3 hp. That still compares favorably to the 3.6 kW of the 038 Mag II though.

Yes, bore is the same and stroke (maybe ) too. So it delivers 5.3bhp, but how!
The new cylinder and crankcase (interior) designs make a lot of difference in how that 5.3bhp is delivered, with nearly 20% less fuel.
Let it reach the shops here, I will upload some very interesting pictures that would explain the real differences between the 381 and 382, that is if Holmen doesn't beat me to it.  :D

Surely - but I still would prefer an original edition 372xp, that has the same power rating, but came with better AV and air filtration (+ likely a better "top end") and takes extremely well to porting etc. + the rather obvious fact that there are no "arctic" version of the 382, which is an absolute must here.

My 372xpg was stolen some years ago.

[joe_indi]

.........the rather obvious fact that there are no "arctic" version of the 382, which is an absolute must here.

Since the base 382 is yet to be introduced, I cannot comment on an Arctic version's priority.
However, I am sure that if Stihl intends the 382 for the NorthAm continent, as in the past, variants would be under consideration.

[SawTroll]

.........the rather obvious fact that there are no "arctic" version of the 382, which is an absolute must here.

Since the base 382 is yet to be introduced, I cannot comment on an Arctic version's priority.
However, I am sure that if Stihl intends the 382 for the NorthAm continent, as in the past, variants would be under consideration.

Arctic versions are very rare in the US, but no so rare in Canada. Those have been German made though, and as the 382 is made in Brazil I doubt there will be one - as far as I know no Arctic versions have been made there before.

Also, I would be very surprised if the 382 appears on the US market, slightly less surprised if it appears on the Canadian one.

[WoodBurner19]

Visited my dealer on Saturday morning. He set aside a MS 461 for me. He also said he was going to Stills annual meeting this Thursday to find out about all their new products and changes. I told him I'd see him again this Saturday to get updated. Then I bought the Stihl cant hook :laugh:

[John Mc]

...Then I bought the Stihl cant hook :laugh:

Which is actually a rebadged LogRite cant hook.

[HolmenTree]

Looks like the 382 has lost almost a pound of weight compared to the 381, but the power specs still are the same 3.9 kW/5.3 hp. That still compares favorably to the 3.6 kW of the 038 Mag II though.

Yes, bore is the same and stroke (maybe ) too. So it delivers 5.3bhp, but how!
The new cylinder and crankcase (interior) designs make a lot of difference in how that 5.3bhp is delivered, with nearly 20% less fuel.
Let it reach the shops here, I will upload some very interesting pictures that would explain the real differences between the 381 and 382, that is if Holmen doesnt beat me to it.  :D

Here's some pics of the MS382 Joe, sure looks like a 461 porting to me.
Very nice! ;)


  

  

 

[HolmenTree]

A few more of those  pics Joe. ;)


  

  

  

  

 

[joe_indi]

 smiley_clapping smiley_clapping

[Ada Shaker]

A few more of those  pics Joe. ;)


  

  

  

  

 

I think your chainsaw has termites moving in Holmen. :D

[HolmenTree]

I think your chainsaw has termites moving in Holmen. :D

:D I sure hope not

[Ada Shaker]

I think your chainsaw has termites moving in Holmen. :D

:D I sure hope not

I see his little head poking out, might have to call him Wally. :D

[khntr85]

To the op... I promise you will love the ms461....I went back and forth about buying a new one.... well long story short I bought one, and got a deal because they didn't have the 441 in stock and that is the saw I set out to buy first.... well let me say I am so HAPPY I got the ms461 over the 441....I use the so so much more than I ever thought I would... it will run the 25" bar in any hardwood like a crazed animal....this thing has so much torque you can pull up on the back handle in a cut and think, *DanG is this saw really eating this 25" like butter... the answer is, YES she does..... I wish I would have bought one as soon as they came out!!!

  Also I dont use my 461 everday, but I have spoke to a lot of guys that do, and they say they are VERY reliable!!!

[WoodBurner19]

To the op... I promise you will love the ms461....I went back and forth about buying a new one.... well long story short I bought one, and got a deal because they didn't have the 441 in stock and that is the saw I set out to buy first.... well let me say I am so HAPPY I got the ms461 over the 441....I use the so so much more than I ever thought I would... it will run the 25" bar in any hardwood like a crazed animal....this thing has so much torque you can pull up on the back handle in a cut and think, *DanG is this saw really eating this 25" like butter... the answer is, YES she does..... I wish I would have bought one as soon as they came out!!!

  Also I dont use my 461 everday, but I have spoke to a lot of guys that do, and they say they are VERY reliable!!!

Thank you for your input! Question is, would you wait for the 462 which should be out soon or go for the 461 now?

[khntr85]

Me personally, I would get the ms461 as is right now....if the ms462 came out today with the m-trounce, I would still get the regular carb ms461.... I just want an adjustable carb myself....i talked to ALOT of people that own and use these 461s hard everyday, and they love them and say they are tanks..... I was even told the guys who fight the forest fires use the ms461, that alone makes a good statement for the toughness of the saw!!!....also the torque this saw has is unreal....

  I am not trying talk you into the saw at all.....its hard telling when and if stihl will release the ms462...with all this said I do believe the ms461 would make your job easier and make you smile!!!

[Ada Shaker]

Suppose it comes down to "Do you want to fiddle with cabi settings or do you just want to cut wood?".

[Big Wood]

i bought a new 461, ported it with a 660 coil, and ran it for a shift. great running saw but didn't take long to miss my husqvarna's. i swear the 461 is worse on the hands then a 660 for me. must be the pitch of the vibrations. it tuned out to 17k happily but i turned her back to 15. occasionally 4 stroked in the cut at that so put her up to 16. i swear it was still rich but i didn't want it to grenade instantly at 17 lol nice torque as well and it would absolutely smoke a ported 372. i switched back to 390 huskies. all the power and smooth. told myself i'm not gonna be switching around with saws anymore. it's all about your preference, if you can handle the stihl vibrations the 461 is a great choice. please don't tell me get a 661. i've owned one as well and the AV is an absolute fail with longer bars. other then the 461 the new saws from stihl are a disappointment.

[khntr85]

Man I wish someone around me ran husky so I could see what the 372/390 felt like to me.....as far as messing with the carb settings, 99% of arborist/loggers don't ever touch the settings on the saw!!!!.... yes a few do, but the ones I know put gas and oil in and cut!!!!

[sandsawmill14]

Man I wish someone around me ran husky so I could see what the 372/390 felt like to me.....as far as messing with the carb settings, 99% of arborist/loggers don't ever touch the settings on the saw!!!!.... yes a few do, but the ones I know put gas and oil in and cut!!!!

thats right and the m-tronics is constantly adjusting  ;) so which is better set it and forget it or constantly adjusting trying to find peak performance ???