WoodMizer LT40 Bedrail Adjustment, issue with shorter pivot rail adjustment.

[will49766]

Hello everyone.   I have a 2018 LT40HD and had to adjust my bed rails last week.  I did the adjustment with the blade height set at 15 inches.  I adjusted the inboard side to 15" and the outboard to 15 1/16.  I was able to get the four main rails perfect.  I'm having trouble with the shorter two pivot rails though.  When I adjust them into specs they are out of alignment with the other 4 rails.  I am using an 8 foot level as a straight edge to check them against the other main four rails.  When I adjust the shorter rails to the correct specs they are lower than the other four main rails by almost 1/8"   Before I started with the adjustments I leveled the mill with the fine adjust outriggers and had the wheels off the ground.  What am I doing wrong here?  Any input will be greatly appreciated.  I have just under 20 hours on my mill, but haven't had a lot of time to use it due to a recent job move.  Been cutting mostly red oak using 7 degree double hard blades.  I was having issues with uneven cuts so I decided to do this adjustment. 

[Stephen1]

That is an interesting one. 
These are my thoughts
Does the manual call for the wheels to be off the ground? I never saw with the wheels up.
Is your top rail level all the way? I bet there is a hump of sorts in the rail and you need to lift more at each end. I always have my ends with weight on them, the intermediate feet are loose. 
I would think an 8' level is not long enough. I would want to go from pivot to pivot arm.
I was told years ago on my old LT40HD not touch the bed rails. I think that is what WM said, but i'm old and have troubles remembering this morning sometimes.
I'm sure others will have some ideas on how to really do the adjustment.

[will49766]

Thanks for your input.  I need to call WoodMizer to get their input on this but I thought posing the question here would be good as well.

Here is what the manual states under the full alignment procedure: "LT40: Adjust the front and third outriggers on the main frame tube down just enough to lift
weight from the trailer tire." I assumed that it meant off the ground, I might be wrong here.

I read somewhere that the rail has an engineered taper to it.  I'm a little worried that my taper might be a little out of kilter actually.  Reason being, my mill was in a an accident at the factory.  The first mill head was totaled.  Apparently the mill got away from the guys when they were towing it in from the parking lot in Indy.  It jumped of the fork lift attachment ball and went rolling down the parking lot.  The head hit something and had to be replaced.  I'm worried now that it might have affected the rail itself since I have really never been able to cut true lumber.  It might just be me though.  I want to make sure.  It's probably worth a trip down to Indy this summer before the warranty runs out.

[barbender]

Are you adjusting the rails, or the head? You have to follow the procedure in the manual to a T. Also, taking weight off the wheels is just that, not completely lifting them off of the ground.

[will49766]

I am only adjusting the rails.  I have never adjusted the head itself.  I don't think that is necessary.  When I first attempted the adjustment I did it with the mill outriggers adjusted so the mill was level without worrying about the wheels, I had no differences.  

[Stephen1]

The wheels always need to be on the ground, if they spin, I have raised the mill to high and start again. If when I kick the middle legs and they are a tad loose, and the water bottle is pretty level I am ready to saw good lumber.
engineered taper is what I was referring to with the front and rear feet taking the brunt of the weight. With my old LT40 I would use the chrome bar to reef the rear foot as high as I could. Ussually lift untill the pins dropped in to hold the legs.
I still do that with my easy adjust. I crank untill the pins pop into thier holes, then I move the head and do the same with the rear legs.
I think that is why you are seeing the swing outriggers being out by the 1\8"
Put a big log on and see what happens.

[will49766]

Thanks Stephen for your input.  I am having a little trouble following though.  I have the fine adjust outriggers, are the pins you are referring to on the outriggers?   I was thinking that it might have to do with the outrigger adjustment and the taper. 

[will49766]

The pins on my outriggers have to be installed before you start to crank them up and they cannot be moved once they are carrying the weight.  I can't think of any other pins...   I think I get what you are saying though.  I will try adjusting the front and rear outriggers up until the wheel(s) barely spin then back down a little until they don't spin, mill level front to back.  Then adjust the other outriggers until they are slightly loose, level front to back, left to right, wheels still not spinning.  Is this correct? I would have to adjust all rails in this condition.

[Chuck White]

The wheels on the mill should NEVER be off the ground when doing an alignment or when sawing!

They provide stability for the mill!

The 1/16 inch adjustment you made on the outboard ends of the bed rails need to be adjusted back to the same as the inboard end, the 1/16 inch adjustment is to be made when you do the sawhead tilt!

It's all outlined in the manual, the alignment steps must be followed step-by-step in order to be correct.

Again, your wheels should always make solid contact with the ground, not just barely touching, they need to bare sawmill weight!

[John S]

I think you should bring your mill into your WM dealer.  I have been told many times by my WM dealer to never adjust the bed rails, they are the reference for your blade alignment.  With 20 hours on your mill, there should not be any alignment issues.

[WV Sawmiller]

   My understanding is first WM techs almost never have to adjust the bed rails unless they have loosened during sawing - they set to original factory locations then adjust the sawhead to the proper height and tilt. As to the legs I understand you raise them until they are bearing weight - i.e you can't move the locking pin without raising with the jack handle if you have the original legs/jacks. I assume with the FAOs, if installed, you just adjust till there is tension. I always make sure my wheels are bearing weight even if I have to put boards under the low side when leveling side to side. Good luck and let us know what the WM techs say when you call them.

[will49766]

  Well I called WoodMizer.  I'm more confused than before actually.  He did indicate that the rails almost never need to be adjusted, that the factory does the adjustment and they are almost never an issue. He did say to check the side supports for alignment though, because they can cause this issue. Funny thing is, my trainer on pickup day checked the first main bedrail to blade alignment and it was off.  He covered how to adjust the rails and adjusted the first main rail in, he showed me how to do it.  I should have had him check the remaining rails though at that time.  I adjusted the rest of the rails this last week, just as he did.  I recorded the entire delivery day training so I could remember and reference back to it later.  If I would have known that this was as big of a deal as it is I would have rejected the delivery and had them build me an entirely new mill.  At this point though I think (I hope) this can be adjusted in with a Complete Alignment, but that's almost an intimidating thing to me.  It would be good for me to learn though.  I just want to make sure people don't misunderstand me.  I have the utmost respect for WoodMizer and think the mill engineering is outstanding.  I should have handled this differently though from day one.  Since I bought the mill I have had a job change and haven't had much time to spend on it.  I guess at this point I just have to learn how to do a complete alignment from start to finish.  


As to the mill setup procedure.  My trainer indicated that the FAO's need to be down far enough to so there is tension just as VW has stated.

Thanks for the input everyone. 

[Chuck White]

The alignment is all spelled out in the manual and is very simple!

If a person can read text, can read a ruler and turn a wrench, they can align a Wood-Mizer.

NOTE:  A mill with 20 hours on it and no physical damage is as good as a new one!

[YellowHammer]

Once you've done an alignment, it gets pretty easy, but it can the intimidating.  I've seen the WM guys do alignment and service on my mill that literally took them a few minutes that I had fumbled and second guessed and stared at, for hours.  Now I can do it much quicker.

If you are close to a WM shop, you might consider trailering to them and watch them do it.

The manual is pretty good, and as folks have said, the adjustments build on themselves, so doing them in order is important.

The mill rail does flex up and down based on the amount of load carried by each outrigger, so make sure its not bowed up or down when laying a straight edge across the bunks.  Personally, I like to use a shorter straight edge, one that covers only three bunks, to minimize the effect of the flex of the frame.  So I'd lay it on the first and second main rails and use that to check the pivot rail.  Its important to keep the tires firmly planted on the ground, they act as stabilizer and shock absorbers when big cants or logs are thumping on the mill bed.

The pivot rails are important, but the key is to make sure the main fixed rails are correct, which it seems they are.  For many applications of shorter logs, 8-10 feet, the pivot rails don't come into play.

[CCCLLC]

I Know you'll get it, just takes time. Sometimes turning bolt alignment is opposite of want you think. When you got it right, fold the pivot bucks out of play when loading logs.That era mill, especially important..

[CCCLLC]

Disregard my last post. 2018 mill is plenty strong on the pivot bunks. I have a 1990 mill and they are a bit lighter. Totally different design on your newer mill.

[will49766]

  I really appreciate everyone's input on this and the encouragement.  I work on airplanes for a living but it's mostly all electrical.  Milling is only a hobby at this point.   It's probably a good thing that this all happened actually because it forces me to learn.  I'm going to try to setup the mill the way Stephen explained first.  If that doesn't bring the measurements in closer then I am going to start from scratch and do the full alignment.  I'm pretty sure at this point with the adjustments the trainer and myself made to the bedrails that it will be best to do a complete alignment. It's not something that I can do right away because I work and live about 4 hours away from the mill.  That will change once our house sells.  I do get up here almost weekly though.  My current job is giving me way more time to spend on the mill.

  Thanks again guys.  I really appreciate the Forestry Forum.  I can't say enough good about it.  One of these years I hope to be able to attend one of your events.

[will49766]

Update...  I finally got some time to work on my mill.  I'm about 90% through the complete alignment procedure.  Here is what I have left:

Blade horizontal tilt alignment.
Final adjust the blade guide flange spacing.
Align the side supports.
Adjust the clamp stop/stop bolts.
Adjust the saw head tilt.
Then adjust the blade height scale.

The bed rails and pivot rails are now pretty closely aligned. 

Question:  I have searched WoodMizer's web site for the alignment tubes (PN: S12831) called out for the side support adjustment.  I don't see them listed on their site.  What do you guys use for performing this step?  Can I just go buy square tubing from Home Depot for this? 

Also, I have decided to upgrade my setworks from SimpleSet to Accuset2.  I am going to do this modification myself as soon as I get a sale on my house up here, hopefully this fall.  I have read up on how to perform the modification.  Maybe I will make a post about how to do that when the time comes. 

To say the least, I have learned a LOT about my mill!  Very enjoyable.

[WV Sawmiller]

   I would think any square tube from any source should work if they have not been damaged. However I can't see why a pair of 8' metal or fiberglass levels would not work just as well or better if they are the same size and also not damaged.

[terrifictimbersllc]

Two levels of the same dimension a great idea. I have been using a piece of 3/8 plate glass about 10"wide x36long I happened to have.

[YellowHammer]

I use two 4 foot pieces of extruded aluminum, very straight 80/20, across the mill bed, then use a 12" speed square on top of them, and push the back of the square against the backstops to confirm the backstop alignment.  It should be done at least two times per backstop, once at a full 90° and also partially laid down.  

FWIW, my backstops are set about 1/16" or so inboard so they will straighten up with clamping pressure.  

[will49766]

Good idea on the 8 foot levels but I decided to go with extruded aluminum due to cost, at least for now.   I did use the one 8 foot level I currently own to adjust in the Clamp Stop and Stop bolts.  That worked well.

Thanks for all the input.  Very helpfull!