NYS rough cut lumber codes intensifying.

[4x4American]

http://nyfb.informz.net/informzdataservice/onlineversion/ind/bWFpbGluZ2luc3RhbmNlaWQ9NDAyMjEwNyZzdWJzY3JpYmVyaWQ9MA==

[chance33]

I would like to know what company or PAC is fronting the political contributions for this action. I'm getting to a point where I could support "no more political contributions from corporations, PACs or unions. If the supreme court can't see the folly of their earlier decision then we are in real trouble.

[4x4American]

What happened to America, land of the free, home of the brave? 

[Ocklawahaboy]

We've had that in our county for years.  It is as much of a PITA as you fear it will be.

[johnnyllama]

Most building inspectors in our area already won't allow rough cut lumber as structural members as it's unstamped with any grade. Most agricultural buildings don't require building permits and inspections though, at least not while I was building, for the last 35 yrs. or so. Not sure about other towns outside my area of NY.

[beenthere]

Here is how WI handles it for the sawyers cutting dimension lumber. They offer a course in grading and if one passes the course, can provide local use lumber.

dimension lumber grading course

[69bronco]

They tried this crap before in the northeast corner of the state. People came together and defeated it, we need to take a minute and send a response to try and squash this!! Rough cut lumber built this country, despite what big money has to say!

[jwilly3879]

In the Adirondacks rough cut lumber is a good part of the local economy. It provides a few jobs and keeps the cash local. There is energy saved by reduced transportation and it allows construction that tends to increase revenue for the local governments.

In addition to logging with my son, my other job is as a Code Enforcement Officer and I am a retired contractor. Rough lumber has a place in the construction industry but occasionally it is used in the wrong place with catastrophic results. Grade stamped lumber provides some assurance to the inspector that the material is adequate for the application as well shifting liability issues to the producing mill.

At issue here is the question of liability when something goes wrong, especially in today's lawsuit happy society.

That's my take on this and I have been opposed to prohibiting rough cut for years.

[Joe Hillmann]

Here is how WI handles it for the sawyers cutting dimension lumber. They offer a course in grading and if one passes the course, can provide local use lumber.

dimension lumber grading course

So once once a person takes that class are they then able to grade lumber for buildings that require a permit?  There is no charge for any of it?  If that is the case I may look as signing up for that class.  There could be great value in it.

[Foxtrapper]

This is nothing new.  This state has been trying to force country folks out for as long as I can remember.  They do it by taking our jobs.  Farming is all but gone in my neck of the state.  Amish are moving out at breakneck speeds, not sure where they are going, but they are leaving in droves..remember, Cuomo told us there was no place in this state for us, and that is exactly what he ment.  You can see it in the fracking ban, and now this..uggh, I dislike the state government... >:(

[sealark37]

New York seems intent upon enticing everyone west of the Hudson into leaving the state for good.  I would guess that Cuomo does not trust people who can take care of themselves.  Regards, Clark

[Foxtrapper]

In the Adirondacks rough cut lumber is a good part of the local economy. It provides a few jobs and keeps the cash local. There is energy saved by reduced transportation and it allows construction that tends to increase revenue for the local governments.

In addition to logging with my son, my other job is as a Code Enforcement Officer and I am a retired contractor. Rough lumber has a place in the construction industry but occasionally it is used in the wrong place with catastrophic results. Grade stamped lumber provides some assurance to the inspector that the material is adequate for the application as well shifting liability issues to the producing mill.

At issue here is the question of liability when something goes wrong, especially in today's lawsuit happy society.

That's my take on this and I have been opposed to prohibiting rough cut for years.

I haven't seen any ruff cut lumber houses fall down, besides which it is as much the building of the building as the materials used.  I'd put ruff cut up against any wood product produced.  I'm not sure how our ancestors ever made it without all these regulations.  It's more of a money grab than anything else..

[beenthere]

Joe
As I read the flier in the link. Says what one can do.. and there is a limitation.

This course is designed to provide the required background knowledge that is
necessary for a sawmill operator to be able to sell local-use dimension lumber for use in
residential construction.

[Brad_S.]

They tried this crap before in the northeast corner of the state. People came together and defeated it, we need to take a minute and send a response to try and squash this!! Rough cut lumber built this country, despite what big money has to say!

Sawmill manufacturer Timber Harvester based in Waterloo was instrumental in organizing a collation to battle the proposed law last time. They are now gone...someone will need to step up but I doubt there will be any takers and  this will pass unopposed.

[Joe Hillmann]

Joe
As I read the flier in the link. Says what one can do.. and there is a limitation.

This course is designed to provide the required background knowledge that is
necessary for a sawmill operator to be able to sell local-use dimension lumber for use in
residential construction.

I know this is sidetracking this thread but it fits in so I am going to do it anyways.

I did some searching for Wisconsin local use dimensional lumber grading and this is what I found out (this only applies to Wisconsin so those in other states need to look up their own laws).

If you take the class and pass some type of test (couldn't find much any information on the test, such as if it is included with the class or if it costs money) that you can then sell ungraded dimensional lumber for local use in residential building.  You basically sign your name to the lumber that you sell saying that is meets or exudes the specs for what type of lumber you are selling it for. 

For use in residential building it can only be used if you are selling it directly to the person who will be living in the home or someone acting on their behalf (this is to prevent someone from building a house using substandard lumber with the intention of selling it right away.  If the person who is going to be living in the home then they have a vested interest in not using sub standard material)  Also the lumber can only be used if the local building inspector decides to allow it (the local building inspector gets the final say, and if they say they won't allow ungraded lumber you can't use it, regardless of what the law says.)

Of course you can still use ungraded lumber for anything that doesn't require a building permit.

[beenthere]

Joe
Not sidetracking, as this WI way of handling non-graded dimension lumber may be the way forward for NY.
And I think you summarized the situation in WI very well, as I understand it.

[4x4American]

It could be the way forward for NY, but the law makers don't care they'd rather just ban it like they ban everything. 

You're right Foxtrapper, he did say that.  I'd like to have words with that guy in person.

[4x4American]

Hud-Son is based out of NY, and they have a decent following.  Maybe they would help take a stand.  There's a Wood-Mizer location in Hannibal NY.  Maybe they could help?

[thechknhwk]

Call your state representatives and complain loudly, email, call write, and then do it again.  Get people you know to do it.  There is something all of us can do.  I submitted the web form to support rough cut lumber.  Call hudson and the NY WM site and let them know about this, they may be able to further mobilize.  Whatever you do don't roll over.  The international uniform building code is was written by the United nations, and part of their "sustainable development" initiative.  This could have a local factor being pushed by an ICLEI chapter (local governments for sustainability) which is under UN control as well.  They will use the code book to root you off your land and take your livelihood, IMO.

"Please comment on the proposal today by sending your message to New York State Building Code Council by Thursday, February 6th. If you have questions about the proposal or how to submit your comments, call NYFB at 1-800-342-4143."

[logboy]

As far as our Wisconsin law goes, you still have to grade the lumber, and it still needs to meet the standards within the law.  You're not selling standard mill run for someone to build with. The standards within the law are actually set a little stricter than commercially graded lumber, so in theory you're producing a higher quality product than you can get from the local lumberyard. You're basically going to grade the lumber much in the same way that a commercial grader would.  You then have to do a bit of paperwork, saying it meets a certain grade when you turn around and sell directly to the homeowner who is going to inhabit the home.  The lumber can only be used for a one or two family dwelling, not commercial purposes.  This course does NOT enable you to make up your own grading stamp and start your own lumber yard selling to contractors.

Ultimately, the call comes down to the building inspector.  If they decide to reject all of the rough sawn lumber, they can do that.  They can also say that the grade needs to be higher than the law states, or they can just accept it as is within the confines of the law.  If you have a stickler for a building inspector, or one who is well connected to the local lumber yard, you might run into troubles.

I got my grading permit a few years ago through the class in Stevens Point.  I'm not sure I will ever use it for anyone other than myself, but it was definitely beneficial to go and learn.  Now I grade all my structural lumber coming right off the mill, even if it's only for myself.  The course is only one day long, and the test is easy.  Besides, you go over the material so much that by the end you have it memorized anyway.  I recommend that everyone go and take the course.  I framed houses for years, and I still learned a lot about framing lumber that I handled every single day.  This course will only enhance your knowledge around your mill.

[logboy]

Sorry to piggyback the thread.

Wisconsin Local-Use Dimension Lumber Grading Short-Course scheduled for Monday, February 23, 2015.

The one-day short-course required for someone to gain certification to grade under the Wisconsin Local Use Dimension Lumber Grading system will again be offered for Wisconsin sawmill operators on Monday, February 23, 2015. The course will be held at the DNR Service Center in Rhinelander. This course is designed to provide the required background knowledge that is necessary for a sawmill operator to be able to sell local-use dimension lumber for use in residential construction. (Note: Local-use dimension lumber is lumber that is not grade-stamped under the authority of a grading association.) Successful completion of this course and passing the associated test is required for anyone that wishes to produce and sell local-use dimension lumber in Wisconsin that will be used in residential construction.

The short-course is done on an intensive basis and is one day in length, beginning at 9:00 AM and ending by around 4:00 PM (at the latest). There will be no fee for attending - HOWEVER - preregistration is required – there will be NO WALK-IN REGISTRATION -seats will be assigned on the basis of requests as received until the seat limit is reached, space is limited to about 15 persons maximum for each course to allow for more interactive discussion.

Registration for the course must be received before the deadline of February 13th, 2015. This early registration deadline is to permit time to confirm registrations and to deliver a copy of information for attending and a copy of the manual to allow persons to read and study the manual in advance. To register you may email, phone in or FAX your registration (email is preferred). When you register, simply indicate you wish to attend the WLUDL grading course, and be sure to include your full contact information including phone number, email address (if available) and full mailing address, in addition to the names of people who will be attending and the business name if appropriate. Your registration will then be confirmed (by email, phone or FAX, mail or phone). Along with the grading manual, directions to the DNR Service Center in Rhinelander and other information will be forwarded to you by e-mail or mail.

To register: email to: Collin.Buntrock@Wisconsin.Gov
Or phone: Collin Buntrock (715) 365-4704 – leave message on answering machine
or FAX to: (715) 365-8932
Any questions call: Collin Buntrock (715) 365-4704

[beenthere]

Very good summary logboy. Glad you chimed in on this, and hope others take your suggestion to take the course.
Thanks for posting the material in the link too.

[logboy]

No problem. I remember seeing the email in my inbox, I just had to go back and find it. Its a good course to take, and being free, the price is right. I may post a new thread so our fellow cheeseheads dont gloss over this one and miss it.

[Peter Drouin]

And after a while you can see which log will make good 2x4. Or a log that will make 1" that don't need a grade.
There is a bocce code, I can't help if a guy puts 2x12 floor joist 10' on center. I have had no trouble so far .

[johnnyllama]

Just some clarification here, not trying to change the thread, as it is certainlly a valid topic. The International building code was not written by the United Nations and has nothing to do with them. It was a combination of the three seperate building codes in this country that dated back to the 1940's, written by officials of those organizations , which became the IBC. Many states have adopted these codes but not all. It was an attempt to unify the codes across the country while still allowing for some regional differences. For instance, insulation requirements are different for NY and Florida, etc.
  While I think our rough cut lumber in most cases meets or exceeds the needs for residential construction, I can also see the argument from a code enforcement officials side. They have some liability risk when they approve a framing inspection and if they don't know a wood species for instance or a grade, they are taking the word of the builder or lumber supplier if there is no visible stamp or paperwork. In my plus 35 years of general contracting I built everything from custom homes to 100,000 plus sq.ft. student housing and I have seen too many times cases of nitpicking inspectors on a power trip, to building material suppliers who lied about their products. It's a complicated issue, but it seems like some compromise could be reached. Bottom line though, even though dealing with building codes is a pata, codes are needed. Buildings DO fall down, I've seen it {although not because of rough cut lumber:) }!
  As a side note,  local and National Homebuilders Associations are currently fighting another attempt to require residential sprinkler systems in all new homes, an even bigger fight!