Logging winches.... the good, bad and ugly???

[kusky]

I am new to the forum and to tractor ownership.  I am actively researching logging winches available to me (I live in southwestern New Hampshire). I plan to use it for personal use and not much more. I am going to be using it on a Kubota with 52HP and 46 at PTO.  I have seen available to me Farmi, Norse, Igland, Wienstein and Tajfun. I might be missing one but that is about it. I am leaning towards Farmi or Norse right now.

What I'd like is your opinion and personal experiences with those listed above and any others available to me within Northern New England area. Thanks in advance!

[nas]

I have a Wallenstein and I love it 8)  Made in Canada too eh. ;D 8)

Nick

[Piston]

Welcome to the forum!  I wish I had some experience to give you good advice on the winches, but since I don't, I'll just be following along with this thread lurking in the shadows learning about winches as well  :D

But ya, welcome.

[MHineman]

  I have a Wallenstein FX90.  I got it just over a year ago.  I use it on a 40hp Foton tractor. 
  It works great.  I've never had a problem with it.
  I researched the Farmi and Norse too, but I couldn't find any close to me here in Central Indiana.  I bought my winch new about 20 miles from home.
  I think I gave about $3,400 for my winch and that seemed about the same $ as the Farmi.
  The design seems to be about the same so I'd go with the best price and closest source to you for the size winch you need.
  My winch is rated at 9,000 lbs pull and weighs in at about 900 lbs.

[thecfarm]

kusky,welcome to the forum.  Must be looking at Labonville at the Norse. I have a 40hp tractor with the 450 and the butt plate pivots. I had it since '93. My father and me worked it in the works for 3-4 years. Worked it steady and real hard. Lots of long pulls and  white pine, 3 feet across was normal for us. Only had the chain jump off once and that was last year. Chain and sprocket looked fine, has not happened since.That's is just about the only trouble I had with it. Now it lives a life of ease just doing my firewood. I would get another one,if I needed it.Make up some shorts chains. I have some 3½ feet long. Now that I am just cutting small stuff no need for the 8 foot chains. Much easier to pull a foot of chain through a chocker instead of 4 feet. Seems like all winches come with 8 foot chains.Try to winch in as straight as possible. Do not winch at any shape angles or off to the side. You can tip the tractor over that way. Any of the winches you mentioned will do the job. You will really like it and wished you would of bought it sooner. Makes life and logging so much easier.We use to use chains to get the logs out. It worked,but really takes 2 to make the job easier. That is a nice size tractor for the woods. For digging rocks too.

[FFLM]

Welcome Kusky, I am across the river in south east vermont.  I have used Norse and Farmi winches and like the Farmi.   Look on craigs list, I saw a used 501 Farmi that looked in great shape. 
Good luck
FFLM

[postville]

I have a Farmi and it is great. The lower pulley is well designed, just swing to the side to get the cable in or out. Lots of other small details that were well thought out. Cable has a separate brake that comes off as you pull out the cable so it will not over spool and tangle. The main brake is a notched drum that really holds.
I have had it for 4 years and never have had a problem. We have a good local dealer- Three Rivers Forestry, who delivered it, cut the driveshaft to length and got me started.
They have made and sold these for a long time. Must be doing something right. Bob

[MHineman]

  postville, Those descriptions sound exactly like my Wallenstein.  I think they (Wallenstein) stole the engineering from Farmi since I think Farmi had those features first.
  Another piece of equipment you really need tp get is a self-releasing snatch block.  I got mine from Three Rivers Forestry.  They are great to deal with and have good prices.

[kusky]

Thanks for the input so far.  I've been a lurking guest for a week or more and felt like this forum would be a good place to get my simple as well as more complex questions reagrding low impact personal logging answered.

"thecfarm": Yes, I have been looking at Labonville (online) as well as having a call into Farmi Forestry out of NY state about winches.  I noticed one of the last posts mentioned cutting the shaft down.  I am wondering how one figures out the proper length to cut the shaft?  Is there a video or step by step available that anyone might know of?  I have come across Three Rivers Forestry online.

[jocco]

I would be more concerned with getting the right one for the tractor size. To small no good same as to big. All those are reputable brands they all have there share of knick kacks or features.  USED check condition some guys beat them up bad also watch for obsolete makes or models.

[g_man]

I have a Farmi and it has been trouble free for over ten years. Don't think you can go wrong with Farmi. Don't know about the others.

[MHineman]

  The Wallenstein Operators manual is available online at: http://www.embmfg.com/File.aspx?id=d54d7bcc-90cc-4381-a9eb-860ebe936f66&display=full.
  This manual comes with the winch and shows how to setup the unit and operate it.
  Page 21 of 59 in the .PDF shows how to measure and cut the PTO drive to the proper length.  I'm sure the same procedure applies to the Farmi and Norse.
 

[JohnM]

  The Wallenstein Operators manual is available online at:

+1 for Wallenstein owners, it's been a great machine.

MHineman, thanks for that link!  I bought mine used and never got the manual, it's an older model but it looks as if everything still applies.  (and yes I know I could have gone to Wallenstein's site anytime and got it..........I have no excuse... :-[ )

As others have said just pick the right size for the tractor, they all work and are all good machines.  Except that one...ew no, don't pick that one!   ;) :D

[MHineman]

  Check the serial number on your winch.  I seem to remember that the manual was for those of a specific serial number and up.  I seem to remember that Wallenstein made some older models that didn't work as well.
  Then they incorporated (stole?) some funtionality from the Farmi and made it a good winch.
  I'm not sure of this, but it was implied by the reference to after a certain serial number.
  I actually went to the Wallenstein site BEFORE buying the winch.  I wanted to know more about the winch and how a manufacturer makes information available often tells me a lot about how they will support you after the sale.
  So far the unit is made well enough that I haven't needed any support, so I can't comment on that.

[apm]

Hi kusky, I would think the Fransgard should be sold up there. I've got one of them and it's great. My guess is all of the major brands are more than adequate.

Greg

[wesdor]

Another Wallenstein owner.  I have the FX90 and love it.

There are other really good manufacturers out there (as you have observed).  I suggest you find the best local dealer and see what brand they have. I believe you have some Tajfun dears in your area and probably Wallenstein as well

Having a winch has been a real help this year.  I only wish I had made the decision a few years earlier

Good luck

[kusky]

  The Wallenstein Operators manual is available online at: http://www.embmfg.com/File.aspx?id=d54d7bcc-90cc-4381-a9eb-860ebe936f66&display=full.
  This manual comes with the winch and shows how to setup the unit and operate it.
  Page 21 of 59 in the .PDF shows how to measure and cut the PTO drive to the proper length.  I'm sure the same procedure applies to the Farmi and Norse.

I checked out the PDF and it makes sense.  Measure twice (or three times) cut once rule.  I was planning on taking the shaft to work and cutting on a lathe but it looks much easier and quicker in the manual.  I could be up and running in a short amount of time. Thanks for the info MHineman.

[thecfarm]

A sawsall,skilsaw or anything with a metal cutting blade will work. Those PTO shafts are hollow and really not much to them.

[MHineman]

A sawsall,skilsaw or anything with a metal cutting blade will work. Those PTO shafts are hollow and really not much to them.

That's right.  Just be sure to remove the burrs.

[WindyAcres]

Hello,

I am using an International 384 (early 80s), 2WD Tractor and a new Farmi Winch (JL 351P - 7700 lbs pulling capacity)  to manage our woodlot (65 acres). This combination works great for us  . Farmi Winches have a very good reputation.

I had to pull up a bigger yellow birch today and it is amazing how smooth it works! Can`t wait to mill it up (once it gets a little warmer.. so probably in July or something  :( )



 

I have helped somebody getting some firewood (maple, yellow birch, ash..) last year.. He has a stronger tractor (New Holland, 4WD, 55 hp) with the same winch (Farmi 351) and it works great too. We also cut down some bigger Red Spruce, no problem...  That winch can pull that tractor over. If I had a bigger tractor (I don`t think I need one but..) I might be thinking about the JL501, especially if you have some really big stuff. It might be overkill, but you know..  ;) I am going to get a Stihl 441 soon (the 361 would probably do it but I want some real poer beside my 260

I would be careful with the Wallenstein. Campare them good (is the axle machined and does it have bearings with lubrication? Do the pulleys have bearings&lubrication? What about rust resistant coating? How is the clutch build? How do you adjust the breake piece? Does the blade have a cross bar so that it doesn`t dig in so deep?...).

Fabian

PS
Yes, the snatch block can be a great help.

[redneck]

Our family has had a farmi winch for 20+ years and still works good. no major issues

[Hermio]

My summary is that everyone seems to like the winch they have, regardless of brand. So, if I finally can afford a winch, I would probably get a Norse based on price, though a Farmi or Tajfun may be a bit safer. For now, I just pull in steps with a chain and a quick hitch, until I can get the tractor right up to the log. Then I close couple and lift the log with the hitch, and drag the same way I would if I had a winch. I have pulled a few 6000# logs this way, with my Mahindra 5035, which weighs about 9000# with no rear attachments and a really heavy FEL with 4-way bucket.

[mf40diesel]

My father and I have been hammering on a Farmi 301, that is roughly 35 years old.  I wish it had a stronger line pull, but it works pretty darn good.  I am hoping in the future to replace it with a Tajfun, as I personally think they seem to be the cadillacs;  I haven't used one however.

Besides the safety issues to yourself as the operator, what I have found is one must be real careful with their machine.  I also have intentions of armoring up my tractor to make it more woods compatible.  But as of now I have ripped some wiring apart from underneath and bent a few brackets and that is mostly with brush in over grown fields, not even slash per se. 

[GAB]

Kusky:
First off - Welcome to the forum.
The only winches I have used were two v2800 by Fransgard owned by two friends.  I would buy one if in good condition as that model is no longer manufactured.
Both of these winches worked very well.  However how one attaches a log can make a hugh difference on the results.  For instance one fellow tried to move a log and couldn't.  I just turned the choker around the log so that it would cause the log to turn when pulled on, and he was able to safely get it out.  Same tractor, same winch, same log, and different results.  There is a lot of physics involved in moving wood.
I noticed recently that the St. Johnsbury dealer for Fransgard is advertising a temporary lower price. 
Gerald

[John Mc]

...I also have intentions of armoring up my tractor to make it more woods compatible.  But as of now I have ripped some wiring apart from underneath and bent a few brackets and that is mostly with brush in over grown fields, not even slash per se.

I just had a belly pan, limb risers, and FOPS added to my tractor this past summer - if figured after 14 years and debris knocking the HST filter off twice, it was time to do something about it. (My damage also occurred in fields, not in the woods)

[1styear]

Has anyone used the portable winch? It is powered by a gas engine and secures to a tree and other things. I have nice trees for cutting and they are of course on a steep incline down a small mountain. The hills are too steep for my tractor. Plus I cannot run a straight line to the trees. Any input would be appreciated.  :new_year:

[John Mc]

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, 1stYear. Where are you from?

I've used a portable winch once, and had it demonstrated by a Game of Logging instructor. I could see where it would be very handy in a situation such as yours. They are faster than a 12V electric ATV-type winch (not to mention much more suited to dragging logs), but they are significantly slower than a logging winch on the back of a tractor. The unit I saw seemed well designed and built.  If I didn't own a 3pt hitch logging winch for my tractor, I would probably have one of these.

[1styear]

I live in SE Oklahoma, My main concern is will it pull the extra weight from being on a slope. Most of my trees are hardwood oak and hickory

[John Mc]

How big are the trees?

The demonstration I saw was on hilly ground, pulling Beech logs. We did not have to double the line with a snatch block to get more power, but that is always an option if you need it. You may also want to get a skidding cone, or make some sort of skidding plate to keep the front end of the log from digging in. If you are really concerned about the drag, you could look into adding and arch to lift the end of the log, so it rolls rather than drags. (Forum sponsor LogRite makes some great arches).

[1styear]

The trees are about 30' long and the diameter are between 24" to 28 "  Thank you, John for your response

[Remle]

The problem of not being able to pull them up in a straight line is not a problem if you use snatch blocks at points along the route where you want the log to turn directions. Their are even self releasing snatch blocks, if you put "snatch blocks " in the search function at the top of the page and change the parameter to Entire Forum you will get a good perspective about them and a couple of videos using them by some of the forestry members..

[John Mc]

The trees are about 30' long and the diameter are between 24" to 28 "  Thank you, John for your response

That's beyond my limited experience seeing one of these winches in use. There are members here who use them regularly and can chime in.  Also, I think the manufacturer has videos of the winch in use on their web site, or you could check Youtube for videos - someone has probably taken one of it hauling out a good-sized tree.

If you've already got a tractor, you might want to look at a 3 Pt hitch winch. By the time you get a portable winch, rope, a logging arch (if you think the slope and tree size will be too much for the winch to drag on the ground), you could have bought a logging winch for your tractor.  I like the portable winch - it's a great design, but if I had to choos between that and the logging winch on my tractor, there would be NO question.

As Remie mentioned, you can solve a lot of problems with a self-releasing snatch block. They are not cheap, but they greatly increase the utility of a winch (I have two of them. I very rarely use both on one pull.)

[1styear]

Thanks a lot for the information.

[1styear]

Just bought a farmi 351p winch. The dealer personally drove the winch to my home, "a 12 hour drive." He assembled the winch to the tractor and winched a couple of trees. He also gave me a discount and included the screen, 3 choker chains, and a self release snatch block, basically for free. 

[thecfarm]

1styear,You will like the winch.

[47sawdust]

1styear,
That is a great dealer,you will not be disappointed with your winch.

[g_man]

Congrats on your new Farmi. Sounds like a great dealer !!  As the others have said, you will love your winch and snatch block.  Work safe.

gg

[ahlkey]

The Farmi JL351P is an excellent winch and with the lower block + an additional Snatchblock you will have surprising a lot of pulling capacity.  I sold my Farmi and currently have the FX120 from Wallenstein but Farmi seems a step above the others in my view. 

[1styear]

Yes,  what a difference! Now I can collect those trees which were impossible to retrieve with no sweating and swearing involve.

[thecfarm]

1styear,you must have diffeant trees then me. I still have to sweat and swear at mine.  :D

[1styear]

Give me some more time, I will catch up with the sweating and swearing. I am just starting.

[g_man]

1styear,you must have diffeant trees then me. I still have to sweat and swear at mine.  :D

:D :D

[Ed_K]

 Just bringing this thd up for a caution for anyone with a 3 pt winch where you have a second lever winch brake.
If you get the cable too tight like trying to get a tree off a stump, DON'T try to push on the lever with you hand, use the rope and the pulleys that are there. I cracked a rib this morning when it finally let go. Tractor and winch moved back at me quicker than I could move. Made for a very sore day trying to start chainsaws all day  :(.

[thecfarm]

As I say,I won't do that again.