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Author Topic: old wood stoves  (Read 42016 times)

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Offline Paul_H

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2010, 01:21:30 PM »
I have a woodstove but it relies on a circulating fan to push the air to the rest of the house.If the power goes out,I can keep a low fire to maintain temps above freezing.We also have a generator ready to hook up.

Quote
So what are you going to do when the power goes out, run a generater to run your pellet stove??

Why not? Even people with woodstoves like to have some lights and maybe a little tv for a few hours a day.
Do pellet stoves still come with a 12v hookup? Friends of ours had a hookup at the back to connect a 12v auto battery that would run the pellet stove auger and fan for hours.The battery could be topped up on the charger during the time the generator runs at night.
eg  tregar  meste  på  Tulla, for  ho  var  krulla  i  ulla.

Offline Qweaver

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2010, 02:43:18 PM »
So what are you going to do when the power goes out, run a generater to run your pellet stove?? I guess the power dosen't go out where you live. I'd say most people who have an old wood stove have them so they don't have to rely on a power company or pellet manufacter for they're heat. At least I do.
Yep, we have a 7500 watt generator/welder setting downstairs that takes just a minute to start. I keep 10 gal of gas on hand and a full tank in the generator.  We also have 2 portable propane heaters that require no electric to operate.  I would need the generator even if I had a woodstove because I have a mechanical room downstairs that could freeze without the small electric heater that we use to keep that room above 32.  I could put a small propane heater down there if I had to.
We had a Hearthstone woodstove and I loved it's looks and the heat that it made.  I just got tired of carting bug filled wood in several times a day and we could never stop the stove from smoking when the wind blew hard.  I have several friends that have woodstoves and all of them complain about smoking in high wind.  The older I get the less I want to spend large portions of time making firewood.  I guess I'm just taking the easy way out.  We have a Geothermal heatpump and I wouldn't have to run a stove at all... but we like it.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Offline downeast

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2010, 03:50:23 PM »
Why have a pellet stove?
1.Fill it once a day
2.Clean fuel
3. About the same cost for fuel if you have to buy the wood
4.Clean it every 2 to 3 days
5. Very little ash
6. 5 heat adjustments
I could go on.  I would never consider going back to a wood stove.
[/quote]

Why not to use pellets.
1. High energy to manufacture. Ain't green.
2. Fewer BTUs per ton than most hardwood = less heat.
3. Inconsistent quality e.g. loose binders making dust.
4. VERY noisy grinding = no romantic evening by "the fire".
5. Pellet stoves need high maintenance for 24/7 heating-cleaning, motor breakdowns.
6. The stoves are butt ugly. ;D
7. For the snow belt, the stoves don't put out--heat that is.
8. Pellets look like rat droppings. :D
9. Inconsistent and unreliable supply in ALL parts of N. America.
10. I don't like them. :o
11. How the H are you going to get Mr. GoodBody if you can't cut real wood ?
12. What do I do with my chainsaws ? Cut 2" pellets to size ?  :(
and.......
13. Pellets put firewood sellers out of business.

More to come...............

Offline downeast

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2010, 04:14:02 PM »
We had a Hearthstone woodstove and I loved it's looks and the heat that it made.  I just got tired of carting bug filled wood in several times a day and we could never stop the stove from smoking when the wind blew hard.  I have several friends that have woodstoves and all of them complain about smoking in high wind.  The older I get the less I want to spend large portions of time making firewood.  I guess I'm just taking the easy way out.  We have a Geothermal heatpump and I wouldn't have to run a stove at all... but we like it.

Flue downdrafts are an easy fix: the right cap, the correct height, enough heat in the fire to keep the flue draft. I can count on one 4 fingered hand the number of times we get a downdraft usually with low barometer, higher temps in the 40's, and slow low fires IF we're not careful. You can bet we have some Force 6+ winter winds here.

"Making firewood" has got to be part of your life if heating with wood. It's a choice, often tough, sweaty, filthy, risky. I love it since we harvest ONLY in winter here: hard ground, no moldy armpits, no bugs, mostly snow cover. BTW: no serious vipers in Maine !  It keeps this __ (fill in age here ) body in good shape for summer, gives us an excuse to have a beer after woods work. Geothermal = $$$$$$$. Big, big $$$.  The firewood is done as a part of managing the woodlots anyhow. Boy do I love the $$$$ savings. Next summer, we're off to Norway thanks to the money saved.  We do use propane for cooking and hot water ( Rinnai tankless) . We have neighbors in their mid-80's who had to stop cutting their own last year after he had a hip replacement. And, they still heat AND cook year-round with wood.

Hey, we're up north, it is often cold ( say below zero with snow and winds ). The wood racks are loaded once per day, out of a cart. No more. That's not so tough. Or is it ? When I start whining about it, it will be time to not come down for breakfast.  :D

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2010, 04:21:03 PM »
I'd freeze to death without wood.  ;) Even if I lost power my forced air furnace would keep me warm as heat rises as we know. ;) In all the years I've lived here, over 40, never went without power for more than 2 hours. However your BTU per ton of pellets vs split firewood theory doesn't hold up to a candle I'm afraid. ;) Trouble with any pellet stoves I've seen around is they are undersized for the space they are required to heat in many instances. ;)
“No amount of belief makes something a fact.” James Randi

Offline downeast

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2010, 05:02:42 PM »
I'd freeze to death without wood.  ;) Even if I lost power my forced air furnace would keep me warm as heat rises as we know. ;) In all the years I've lived here, over 40, never went without power for more than 2 hours. However your BTU per ton of pellets vs split firewood theory doesn't hold up to a candle I'm afraid. ;) Trouble with any pellet stoves I've seen around is they are undersized for the space they are required to heat in many instances. ;)

What's the BTU/candle ?   ;)  You are questioning a sage.  ;)
BTU to BTU, apples to apples, lb to lb : split logs > any pellets. No theory. Bet your first born.  ;)

Offline Qweaver

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2010, 11:27:51 PM »
I'd freeze to death without wood.  ;) Even if I lost power my forced air furnace would keep me warm as heat rises as we know. ;) In all the years I've lived here, over 40, never went without power for more than 2 hours. However your BTU per ton of pellets vs split firewood theory doesn't hold up to a candle I'm afraid. ;) Trouble with any pellet stoves I've seen around is they are undersized for the space they are required to heat in many instances. ;)

What's the BTU/candle ?   ;)  You are questioning a sage.  ;)
BTU to BTU, apples to apples, lb to lb : split logs > any pellets. No theory. Bet your first born.  ;)

Well...When I looked at the Forest Products Laboratory ● State & Private Forestry Technology Marketing Unit charts I find that the Net Heating Value of:  Pellets =13,600,000 BTU per ton       Air Dried Wood = 10,560,000 BTU per ton

But the real bottom line is, to each his own.  If you like the wood prep and burning process, then I don't care if you do that and you should not care that obtaining and burning pellets is what I like to do. 
I grew up in a house where the only source of heat was wood and coal and I have had several periods over the years where we burned wood, including our current house.  Since we have changed to pellets, I am very happy with the cost, ambiance and ease of use. I'll burn about 2 tons of pellets this winter at $220 a ton.  Not too bad.  My Uncles house is about 1500 SqFt and he expects to use 3 tons and his only heats with pellets. 

My fuel gathering takes the most of one morning and I unload with my TLB forks and the whole 3 tons takes up about 1/3 of 1 bay in my shed.  There has never been a pellet shortage in my state.   I also consider how mobile I will be in another 10 years and I'm trying configure my lifestyle so that I will be able to deal with that.  Enjoy your woodstove...I like them too...at someone else's house.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Offline zopi

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2010, 07:54:13 PM »
Naploeon sucks. period.  bought an insert from them..cheap built...cheap gutz...not gonna spend that money again.

Don't get me wrong...the design of the thing is ok, but the construction sucks...cheap little fan that wore out quick with some frightening wiring...and they used kao board to line the bottom of the secondary burn chamber..that wore out quick so I went with soft boiler block...that wore out but slower...gonna tack a piece of plate in there and slide some half height insulating firebrick in there and see how that works...firebox is too small too. gotta get into graingers or somesuch and find a blower which doth not sucketh...

I need to find or build something better...been messing with numbers around the measurements of this thing, basically working off of design specs for BBQ pits...some things come up close as far as heat output some things don't work...may just dupilcate the design with a little larger firebox.


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Offline downeast

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2010, 08:39:05 AM »

Well...When I looked at the Forest Products Laboratory ● State & Private Forestry Technology Marketing Unit charts I find that the Net Heating Value of:  Pellets =13,600,000 BTU per ton       Air Dried Wood = 10,560,000 BTU per ton
But the real bottom line is, to each his own.  If you like the wood prep and burning process, then I don't care if you do that and you should not care that obtaining and burning pellets is what I like to do. 
I grew up in a house where the only source of heat was wood and coal and I have had several periods over the years where we burned wood, including our current house.  Since we have changed to pellets, I am very happy with the cost, ambiance and ease of use. I'll burn about 2 tons of pellets this winter at $220 a ton.  Not too bad.  My Uncles house is about 1500 SqFt and he expects to use 3 tons and his only heats with pellets. 
My fuel gathering takes the most of one morning and I unload with my TLB forks and the whole 3 tons takes up about 1/3 of 1 bay in my shed.  There has never been a pellet shortage in my state.   I also consider how mobile I will be in another 10 years and I'm trying configure my lifestyle so that I will be able to deal with that.  Enjoy your woodstove...I like them too...at someone else's house.

Like all statistics, it depends. Cord wood BTU value varies, and pellet quality goes all over the BTU scale. There is NO standardization for manufacturing pellets for heat content anywhere: softwoods, hardwoods, scrap, chips, rotted fiber.

Remember that the total BTU load for homes in our snowbelt are much higher than in W. VA or Texas ( Texas !). From the limited experience here in northern Maine, pellet stoves have
 proved by users' experience to be maintenance intensive, medium term unreliable  (motors in a dusty environment), and just don't put out enough heat for the money paid. There are not 10 year old pellet burners putting out anywhere here, at least like our wood stoves and furnaces, and boilers.

Add to that an uneven supply here of pellets to meet a marketed demand in the few years here that pellet stoves have been marketed and hyped as "clean" and easy and cheap. :(   Can a 75 year old 90 lb lady hump a 40 lb bag of pellets into the hopper ??? :o

BTW: what's a "TLB" fork ? Don't have that .....yet. ;D


Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2010, 09:47:51 AM »
Like I told ya before, those pellet stoves your comparing are undersized for the space they are heating. Regional btu requirements need to be factored in as you suggest. ;D

Heck, if they can make a furnace to burn sawdust on an auger system they will make a more reliable one to burn pellets. Raw sawdust is a lot more dirty than pellets. The neighbors had a sawdust fed furnace for years and burnt green sawdust. Aside for the flu fires they had all the time from burning the green sawdust, it worked well. Never froze to death anyway. When they changed out that furnace for a firewood furnace, they still burned green and still had flu fires. That's proof positive, "in situ", to me that green wood clogs up the flu a lot worse than seasoned. I've lived here over 40 years and never had a flu problem and this house is over 100 years old. :D
“No amount of belief makes something a fact.” James Randi

Offline Qweaver

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2010, 12:03:27 PM »

Remember that the total BTU load for homes in our snowbelt are much higher than in W. VA or Texas ( Texas !). From the limited experience here in northern Maine, pellet stoves have
 proved by users' experience to be maintenance intensive, medium term unreliable  (motors in a dusty environment), and just don't put out enough heat for the money paid. There are not 10 year old pellet burners putting out anywhere here, at least like our wood stoves and furnaces, and boilers.

Add to that an uneven supply here of pellets to meet a marketed demand in the few years here that pellet stoves have been marketed and hyped as "clean" and easy and cheap. :(   Can a 75 year old 90 lb lady hump a 40 lb bag of pellets into the hopper ??? :o

BTW: what's a "TLB" fork ? Don't have that .....yet. ;D


My John Deere 110 TLB has the same  mounting system as a skid steer and I have the pallet fork setup.

Our temps have rarely been above freezing since the end of October and are usually in the mid to low 20s.  I don't know where you are getting your info about stove sizing but I never have to run my stove above the middle setting.
My pellet stove has 5 setting levels and I usually run it on the second setting until the temps get into the teens and then the 3rd setting keeps the house at 70.  I know several people that use pellet stoves and all of them are happy with how they heat and what it costs to run them.  Have you actually used a pellet stove?  If not, how can you pass judgement.  I have years of experience with wood stoves and I prefer pellets.  Here it W.Va. they make sense.    I'd rather spend my free time riding motorcycles, white water rafting, or almost anything else besides cutting, splitting and stacking firewood.  BUT...to each his own.
BTW, we have a friend in Houston Texas that had a $400 electric bill last month. Largely due to increased heating costs. 
PS  I just got off of the phone with a friend that owns a tree service and a large part of their income is from selling firewood and they have been sold out for over a month and he did not know of anyone else that had any or was going to be making any soon.  But Swishers, Fosters, Walmart, and Lowes all have plenty of pellets.  Lowes price is $220 a ton.  Not real cheap but pretty good for the middle of the winter. 
 
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Offline Weekend_Sawyer

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2010, 01:46:46 PM »

 I like my Sierra woodstoves 



 I have the same stove in the basement. Loads from the front or side. I load it from the side and it will take a 26" log 
I also like to cut split and stack firewood.  ;D

Jon
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Offline countryjonez

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2010, 08:12:41 PM »
i have an older sqire stove that i use to heat my old house. it will hold wood for 8-10 hours when i choke it down for the night. its a monster of a stove,but my problem with it is the lack of an ash pan.other than that its a keeper.
If God be for us who can be against us ?

Offline downeast

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2010, 02:41:42 PM »
Qweaver:

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, what is TLB ???  I am truly ignorant.
The firewood thing is what academics call gestault ( like TLB ?) . For me in glorious retirement it is mostly an enjoyable experience as part of managing woodlands. TSI ( take that TLA ), some sawlogs harvested, the usual blowdowns to clear, and along with all that firewood harvesting.

Winter is when it's easier to get around the woodlot here --- hard ground, no swampy mush to get equipment bogged down, soft snow most years, cold weather to work in, no bugs. Late spring, summer, early fall are sweet times to do those other things: competitions, the sea, climbs, drinking, trips, gigs playing. The woods stuff is for us also productive exercise, besides the extreme savings of $$$ in high fossil fuel costs.

You're correct: to each his own. I'll drink to that ( Laphroaig if you want to send a 1/5  ;D )

Offline Qweaver

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2010, 08:18:00 PM »
TLB = Tractor, Loader, Backhoe.   I've handled all of my logs with a loader equipped with forks. ;)
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Offline downeast

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2010, 09:59:33 PM »
TLB = Tractor, Loader, Backhoe.   I've handled all of my logs with a loader equipped with forks. ;)

 8) Thx.
We try to avoid TLA's (Three Letter Acronyms)  like the plague. Used too often in mil talk and bureaucrats.
A tractor with a front end loader and power take-offs was considered from the profits from the full harvest 10 years ago. This here is small time logging for not a lot of $$$$. I wanted the body workout anyhow: 6-8 cords firewood, 8-12 pulp. some sawlogs. For ~ 1/4 the cost of even the smallest 4WD tractor with attachments the better choice was a Honda 4WD ATV with trailer. Our woodlands are tough going: hills, bony rocks, wet areas for any tractor, lumpy trails. The Honda Foreman with soft 3psi tires will go anywhere. At times the humping is a PITA, in snow for sure. It beats the gerbil exercise machines people love . :o

Offline zopi

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2010, 08:55:00 PM »
acronyms suck. so sayeth the career military guy...I have made a habit of interrupting every meeting i am forced to go to and making some bureauRat explain his buzzwords and acronyms...

:D tax dollars at work...
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Offline PC-Urban-Sawyer

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2010, 09:25:47 PM »
acronyms suck. so sayeth the career military guy...I have made a habit of interrupting every meeting i am forced to go to and making some bureauRat explain his buzzwords and acronyms...

:D tax dollars at work...

Zopi,

My old CO would say that POD is DOA  ;D Of course that was in the MSO USN... Where the ships were built of wood and the men were made of metal (non-magnetic, of course)...

Herb
EMC SW USN(Ret)



Offline downeast

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2010, 07:18:43 AM »
acronyms suck. so sayeth the career military guy...I have made a habit of interrupting every meeting i am forced to go to and making some bureauRat explain his buzzwords and acronyms...
:D tax dollars at work...

Zopi,

My old CO would say that POD is DOA  ;D Of course that was in the MSO USN... Where the ships were built of wood and the men were made of metal (non-magnetic, of course)...Herb EMC SW USN(Ret)

WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT ---what gives with all those fool letters ??? :D :o

Offline downeast

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Re: old wood stoves
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2010, 07:27:49 AM »
Like I told ya before, those pellet stoves your comparing are undersized for the space they are heating. Regional btu requirements need to be factored in as you suggest. ;D

Heck, if they can make a furnace to burn sawdust on an auger system they will make a more reliable one to burn pellets. Raw sawdust is a lot more dirty than pellets. The neighbors had a sawdust fed furnace for years and burnt green sawdust. Aside for the flu fires they had all the time from burning the green sawdust, it worked well. Never froze to death anyway. When they changed out that furnace for a firewood furnace, they still burned green and still had flu fires. That's proof positive, "in situ", to me that green wood clogs up the flu a lot worse than seasoned. I've lived here over 40 years and never had a flu problem and this house is over 100 years old. :D

Big difference in quality and scale for the sawdust furnaces comapred to tiny pellet heaters. We did look at the Vermont system for using mill waste in public buildings and schools on a "field trip" for using them here. The state subsidizes the furnaces and mills for supplyiong the waste. The mechanisms and motors are isolated from the fuel. There are huge bins outside the buildings. The furnaces heat many 1000's of ft² structures efficiently.
The tiny pellet stoves are rated equivalent to similar wood stoves for output. Most do not have industrial rated mechanisms or motors. Their reliability is not good. The pellet supply is notoriously irregular and in price.


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