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old wood stoves

Started by 567paloggger, January 14, 2010, 05:14:38 PM

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downeast

Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 25, 2010, 04:21:03 PM
I'd freeze to death without wood.  ;) Even if I lost power my forced air furnace would keep me warm as heat rises as we know. ;) In all the years I've lived here, over 40, never went without power for more than 2 hours. However your BTU per ton of pellets vs split firewood theory doesn't hold up to a candle I'm afraid. ;) Trouble with any pellet stoves I've seen around is they are undersized for the space they are required to heat in many instances. ;)

What's the BTU/candle ?   ;)  You are questioning a sage.  ;)
BTU to BTU, apples to apples, lb to lb : split logs > any pellets. No theory. Bet your first born.  ;)

Qweaver

Quote from: downeast on February 25, 2010, 05:02:42 PM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 25, 2010, 04:21:03 PM
I'd freeze to death without wood.  ;) Even if I lost power my forced air furnace would keep me warm as heat rises as we know. ;) In all the years I've lived here, over 40, never went without power for more than 2 hours. However your BTU per ton of pellets vs split firewood theory doesn't hold up to a candle I'm afraid. ;) Trouble with any pellet stoves I've seen around is they are undersized for the space they are required to heat in many instances. ;)

What's the BTU/candle ?   ;)  You are questioning a sage.  ;)
BTU to BTU, apples to apples, lb to lb : split logs > any pellets. No theory. Bet your first born.  ;)

Well...When I looked at the Forest Products Laboratory ● State & Private Forestry Technology Marketing Unit charts I find that the Net Heating Value of:  Pellets =13,600,000 BTU per ton       Air Dried Wood = 10,560,000 BTU per ton

But the real bottom line is, to each his own.  If you like the wood prep and burning process, then I don't care if you do that and you should not care that obtaining and burning pellets is what I like to do. 
I grew up in a house where the only source of heat was wood and coal and I have had several periods over the years where we burned wood, including our current house.  Since we have changed to pellets, I am very happy with the cost, ambiance and ease of use. I'll burn about 2 tons of pellets this winter at $220 a ton.  Not too bad.  My Uncles house is about 1500 SqFt and he expects to use 3 tons and his only heats with pellets. 

My fuel gathering takes the most of one morning and I unload with my TLB forks and the whole 3 tons takes up about 1/3 of 1 bay in my shed.  There has never been a pellet shortage in my state.   I also consider how mobile I will be in another 10 years and I'm trying configure my lifestyle so that I will be able to deal with that.  Enjoy your woodstove...I like them too...at someone else's house.
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

zopi

Naploeon sucks. period.  bought an insert from them..cheap built...cheap gutz...not gonna spend that money again.

Don't get me wrong...the design of the thing is ok, but the construction sucks...cheap little fan that wore out quick with some frightening wiring...and they used kao board to line the bottom of the secondary burn chamber..that wore out quick so I went with soft boiler block...that wore out but slower...gonna tack a piece of plate in there and slide some half height insulating firebrick in there and see how that works...firebox is too small too. gotta get into graingers or somesuch and find a blower which doth not sucketh...

I need to find or build something better...been messing with numbers around the measurements of this thing, basically working off of design specs for BBQ pits...some things come up close as far as heat output some things don't work...may just dupilcate the design with a little larger firebox.


Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

downeast

Quote from: Qweaver on February 25, 2010, 11:27:51 PM

Well...When I looked at the Forest Products Laboratory ● State & Private Forestry Technology Marketing Unit charts I find that the Net Heating Value of:  Pellets =13,600,000 BTU per ton       Air Dried Wood = 10,560,000 BTU per ton
But the real bottom line is, to each his own.  If you like the wood prep and burning process, then I don't care if you do that and you should not care that obtaining and burning pellets is what I like to do. 
I grew up in a house where the only source of heat was wood and coal and I have had several periods over the years where we burned wood, including our current house.  Since we have changed to pellets, I am very happy with the cost, ambiance and ease of use. I'll burn about 2 tons of pellets this winter at $220 a ton.  Not too bad.  My Uncles house is about 1500 SqFt and he expects to use 3 tons and his only heats with pellets. 
My fuel gathering takes the most of one morning and I unload with my TLB forks and the whole 3 tons takes up about 1/3 of 1 bay in my shed.  There has never been a pellet shortage in my state.   I also consider how mobile I will be in another 10 years and I'm trying configure my lifestyle so that I will be able to deal with that.  Enjoy your woodstove...I like them too...at someone else's house.

Like all statistics, it depends. Cord wood BTU value varies, and pellet quality goes all over the BTU scale. There is NO standardization for manufacturing pellets for heat content anywhere: softwoods, hardwoods, scrap, chips, rotted fiber.

Remember that the total BTU load for homes in our snowbelt are much higher than in W. VA or Texas ( Texas !). From the limited experience here in northern Maine, pellet stoves have
proved by users' experience to be maintenance intensive, medium term unreliable  (motors in a dusty environment), and just don't put out enough heat for the money paid. There are not 10 year old pellet burners putting out anywhere here, at least like our wood stoves and furnaces, and boilers.

Add to that an uneven supply here of pellets to meet a marketed demand in the few years here that pellet stoves have been marketed and hyped as "clean" and easy and cheap. :(   Can a 75 year old 90 lb lady hump a 40 lb bag of pellets into the hopper ??? :o

BTW: what's a "TLB" fork ? Don't have that .....yet. ;D


SwampDonkey

Like I told ya before, those pellet stoves your comparing are undersized for the space they are heating. Regional btu requirements need to be factored in as you suggest. ;D

Heck, if they can make a furnace to burn sawdust on an auger system they will make a more reliable one to burn pellets. Raw sawdust is a lot more dirty than pellets. The neighbors had a sawdust fed furnace for years and burnt green sawdust. Aside for the flu fires they had all the time from burning the green sawdust, it worked well. Never froze to death anyway. When they changed out that furnace for a firewood furnace, they still burned green and still had flu fires. That's proof positive, "in situ", to me that green wood clogs up the flu a lot worse than seasoned. I've lived here over 40 years and never had a flu problem and this house is over 100 years old. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Qweaver

Quote from: downeast on February 28, 2010, 08:39:05 AM

Remember that the total BTU load for homes in our snowbelt are much higher than in W. VA or Texas ( Texas !). From the limited experience here in northern Maine, pellet stoves have
proved by users' experience to be maintenance intensive, medium term unreliable  (motors in a dusty environment), and just don't put out enough heat for the money paid. There are not 10 year old pellet burners putting out anywhere here, at least like our wood stoves and furnaces, and boilers.

Add to that an uneven supply here of pellets to meet a marketed demand in the few years here that pellet stoves have been marketed and hyped as "clean" and easy and cheap. :(   Can a 75 year old 90 lb lady hump a 40 lb bag of pellets into the hopper ??? :o

BTW: what's a "TLB" fork ? Don't have that .....yet. ;D


My John Deere 110 TLB has the same  mounting system as a skid steer and I have the pallet fork setup.

Our temps have rarely been above freezing since the end of October and are usually in the mid to low 20s.  I don't know where you are getting your info about stove sizing but I never have to run my stove above the middle setting.
My pellet stove has 5 setting levels and I usually run it on the second setting until the temps get into the teens and then the 3rd setting keeps the house at 70.  I know several people that use pellet stoves and all of them are happy with how they heat and what it costs to run them.  Have you actually used a pellet stove?  If not, how can you pass judgement.  I have years of experience with wood stoves and I prefer pellets.  Here it W.Va. they make sense.    I'd rather spend my free time riding motorcycles, white water rafting, or almost anything else besides cutting, splitting and stacking firewood.  BUT...to each his own.
BTW, we have a friend in Houston Texas that had a $400 electric bill last month. Largely due to increased heating costs. 
PS  I just got off of the phone with a friend that owns a tree service and a large part of their income is from selling firewood and they have been sold out for over a month and he did not know of anyone else that had any or was going to be making any soon.  But Swishers, Fosters, Walmart, and Lowes all have plenty of pellets.  Lowes price is $220 a ton.  Not real cheap but pretty good for the middle of the winter. 
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

Weekend_Sawyer


I like my Sierra woodstoves 



I have the same stove in the basement. Loads from the front or side. I load it from the side and it will take a 26" log 
I also like to cut split and stack firewood.  ;D

Jon
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

countryjonez

i have an older sqire stove that i use to heat my old house. it will hold wood for 8-10 hours when i choke it down for the night. its a monster of a stove,but my problem with it is the lack of an ash pan.other than that its a keeper.
If God be for us who can be against us ?

downeast

Qweaver:

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, what is TLB ???  I am truly ignorant.
The firewood thing is what academics call gestault ( like TLB ?) . For me in glorious retirement it is mostly an enjoyable experience as part of managing woodlands. TSI ( take that TLA ), some sawlogs harvested, the usual blowdowns to clear, and along with all that firewood harvesting.

Winter is when it's easier to get around the woodlot here --- hard ground, no swampy mush to get equipment bogged down, soft snow most years, cold weather to work in, no bugs. Late spring, summer, early fall are sweet times to do those other things: competitions, the sea, climbs, drinking, trips, gigs playing. The woods stuff is for us also productive exercise, besides the extreme savings of $$$ in high fossil fuel costs.

You're correct: to each his own. I'll drink to that ( Laphroaig if you want to send a 1/5  ;D )

Qweaver

TLB = Tractor, Loader, Backhoe.   I've handled all of my logs with a loader equipped with forks. ;)
So Many Toys...So Little Time  WM LT28 , 15 trailers, Case 450 Dozer, John Deere 110 TLB, Peterson WPF 10",  AIM Grapple, Kubota 2501 :D

downeast

Quote from: Qweaver on March 01, 2010, 08:18:00 PM
TLB = Tractor, Loader, Backhoe.   I've handled all of my logs with a loader equipped with forks. ;)

8) Thx.
We try to avoid TLA's (Three Letter Acronyms)  like the plague. Used too often in mil talk and bureaucrats.
A tractor with a front end loader and power take-offs was considered from the profits from the full harvest 10 years ago. This here is small time logging for not a lot of $$$$. I wanted the body workout anyhow: 6-8 cords firewood, 8-12 pulp. some sawlogs. For ~ 1/4 the cost of even the smallest 4WD tractor with attachments the better choice was a Honda 4WD ATV with trailer. Our woodlands are tough going: hills, bony rocks, wet areas for any tractor, lumpy trails. The Honda Foreman with soft 3psi tires will go anywhere. At times the humping is a PITA, in snow for sure. It beats the gerbil exercise machines people love . :o

zopi

acronyms suck. so sayeth the career military guy...I have made a habit of interrupting every meeting i am forced to go to and making some bureauRat explain his buzzwords and acronyms...

:D tax dollars at work...
Got Wood?
LT-15G GO chassis added.
WM sharpener and setter
And lots of junk.

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Quote from: zopi on March 02, 2010, 08:55:00 PM
acronyms suck. so sayeth the career military guy...I have made a habit of interrupting every meeting i am forced to go to and making some bureauRat explain his buzzwords and acronyms...

:D tax dollars at work...

Zopi,

My old CO would say that POD is DOA  ;D Of course that was in the MSO USN... Where the ships were built of wood and the men were made of metal (non-magnetic, of course)...

Herb
EMC SW USN(Ret)



downeast

Quote from: PC-Urban-Sawyer on March 02, 2010, 09:25:47 PM
Quote from: zopi on March 02, 2010, 08:55:00 PM
acronyms suck. so sayeth the career military guy...I have made a habit of interrupting every meeting i am forced to go to and making some bureauRat explain his buzzwords and acronyms...
:D tax dollars at work...

Zopi,

My old CO would say that POD is DOA  ;D Of course that was in the MSO USN... Where the ships were built of wood and the men were made of metal (non-magnetic, of course)...Herb EMC SW USN(Ret)

WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT ---what gives with all those fool letters ??? :D :o

downeast

Quote from: SwampDonkey on February 28, 2010, 09:47:51 AM
Like I told ya before, those pellet stoves your comparing are undersized for the space they are heating. Regional btu requirements need to be factored in as you suggest. ;D

Heck, if they can make a furnace to burn sawdust on an auger system they will make a more reliable one to burn pellets. Raw sawdust is a lot more dirty than pellets. The neighbors had a sawdust fed furnace for years and burnt green sawdust. Aside for the flu fires they had all the time from burning the green sawdust, it worked well. Never froze to death anyway. When they changed out that furnace for a firewood furnace, they still burned green and still had flu fires. That's proof positive, "in situ", to me that green wood clogs up the flu a lot worse than seasoned. I've lived here over 40 years and never had a flu problem and this house is over 100 years old. :D

Big difference in quality and scale for the sawdust furnaces comapred to tiny pellet heaters. We did look at the Vermont system for using mill waste in public buildings and schools on a "field trip" for using them here. The state subsidizes the furnaces and mills for supplyiong the waste. The mechanisms and motors are isolated from the fuel. There are huge bins outside the buildings. The furnaces heat many 1000's of ft² structures efficiently.
The tiny pellet stoves are rated equivalent to similar wood stoves for output. Most do not have industrial rated mechanisms or motors. Their reliability is not good. The pellet supply is notoriously irregular and in price.

SwampDonkey

The heating plant in Fredericton has heated the university (UNB) and residences as well as the regional hospital for 30 years. I don't know why the state would have to subsidize a mill for it's sawdust. This plant is fed my a commercial sawmill with waste that can't be pulped, just another revenue stream for the mill. Has a 40 000 lb./hrr. capacity waste wood-fired boiler (and two 120 000 lb./hrr.) capacity fossil fuel boilers.) The central heating plant also produces steam to heat buildings operated by St. Thomas University and the Research and Productivity Council, and to heat and cool Dr. Everett Chalmers Hospital. These three facilities consume approximately 30 percent of the steam that is produced by the plant.

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/Publications/commercial/m27-01-1364e.cfm?attr=20

Information is 10 years old.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

PC-Urban-Sawyer

Quote from: downeast on March 03, 2010, 07:18:43 AM
Quote from: PC-Urban-Sawyer on March 02, 2010, 09:25:47 PM
Quote from: zopi on March 02, 2010, 08:55:00 PM
acronyms suck. so sayeth the career military guy...I have made a habit of interrupting every meeting i am forced to go to and making some bureauRat explain his buzzwords and acronyms...
:D tax dollars at work...

Zopi,

My old CO would say that POD is DOA  ;D Of course that was in the MSO USN... Where the ships were built of wood and the men were made of metal (non-magnetic, of course)...Herb EMC SW USN(Ret)

WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT ---what gives with all those fool letters ??? :D :o

Downeast,

Just having a bit of fun with Zopi...

CO = Commanding Officer
POD = Plan Of the Day
DOA = Dead On Arrival
MSO = Minesweep, Oceangoing
USN = United States Navy
EMC = Electrician's Mate Chief
SW = Surface Warefare qualified
Ret = Retired

Hope that helps ;D

Herb

downeast

Quote from: PC-Urban-Sawyer on March 03, 2010, 09:23:01 PM
Zopi,
My old CO would say that POD is DOA  ;D Of course that was in the MSO USN... Where the ships were built of wood and the men were made of metal (non-magnetic, of course)...Herb EMC SW USN(Ret)
WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT ---what gives with all those fool letters ??? :D :o
[/quote]
Downeast,
Just having a bit of fun with Zopi...

CO = Commanding Officer
POD = Plan Of the Day
DOA = Dead On Arrival
MSO = Minesweep, Oceangoing
USN = United States Navy
EMC = Electrician's Mate Chief
SW = Surface Warefare qualified
Ret = Retired

Hope that helps ;D

Herb
[/quote]

Herb.
Stop showing off the useless  :D.
As a former dirt man, I know all of the above ( so bright ) except those water ranks.  ;D
No need to know SW, or MSO, or even USN. We had our own transport.  :o
Keep up the TLA's.

Bill

Used to have a Fisher Papa Bear - worked real good ( and I burned whatever was free back in those days ) in my first house. Had to clean the chimney once and awhile  ( or burn a real hot fire on a cold rainy night ? - not recommended at all but when you're young ) .

Also had a Shenandoah wood stove with coal grate - nice little bimetal thermostat to regulate the air - it still sits in the basement waiting to furnish that long awaited " cabin in the Rockies ".

Now using a Consolidated Dutchwest wood/coal stove with a glass ( ceramic ? ) door. The gaskets are starting to go ( can smell the smoke sometimes ) and I took the catalyst out to burn coal ( like they said ) . Since I mostly use wood now I may put it back - told it 'll cut back on chimney cleanings - and I now let the wood sit - covered only - for a year or two before burning.  Except for the gaskets ( not a problem with the other stoves -esp Fisher being welded airtight ) not a bad stove for 24x7 .

downeast

Quote from: Qweaver on February 08, 2010, 01:55:02 PM
Quote from: Ironwood on January 17, 2010, 06:32:36 PM
Oh, yeah, we have a Copper Clad in the basement (my bestman's wedding gift to us), s when TSHF we will cooking on that baby. I still cant understand the logic of a pellet stove, unless it can burn corn and your a corn farmer.  ::)

Ironwood
Why have a pellet stove?
1.Fill it once a day
2.Clean fuel
3. About the same cost for fuel if you have to buy the wood
4.Clean it every 2 to 3 days
5. Very little ash
6. 5 heat adjustments
I could go on.  I would never consider going back to a wood stove.

Here we go again: just say "no" to pellets. Let's do the numbers---

1. Yes pellets are "clean". So is my wood; just takes some light sweeping up when loading and racking for the day.

2. And no Virginia, the cost of pellets is not the same as CSD hardwood BTU to BTU. Besides most of us cut our own='free'.

3. Load once/day for what amount of heat ? Pellet stoves in snow country don't put out. ;D  (Heat)

4. Irregular, unreliable supply everywhere, even here in Maine. Some pellet makers do a good job , others not. Some is hardwood, some soft.
    "Clinkers" in the pellets (debris such as stones!) do wonders for the motor and auger.

5. Ease of use huh ? What 75 Y.O. lady can hump a 40 lb bag into a hopper ?

6. Pellet stoves break down-- and often IF used for heating. The rig needs continual maintenance and cleaning. Tiny motors don't work MTBR in heat.

7. Yes, I am a PB (Pellet Bigot). The hype is too much.

8. And how about that romantic eveing beside......the grinding clinking of the auger !!!  >:(

9. For you greenies out there: the pellet process is a high energy user. Just thought you'd want to know.

10.  Have I said: "I don't like pellet stoves" ? ::)

11. Oh yeah, how in the H do you stack all those tiny tiny rabbit pellets ? :D

Don_Papenburg

The energy used can not be that bad as abag of pellets or a ton of bagged pellets is priced reasonable . 
So once you pay for the bag o pellets that cost of mfg is wiped out .    That is a bad argument . It is like the greenies telling  us that the MFGing of concrete is a large energy consumer .  But that is all figured into the cost . If you buy the product the  cost of energy is paid for  and no longer a factor .  That is to say the energy to produce the pellet  can not now be brought forward to figure in to the energy that you use to operate your stove .  IE. If it cost 100 BTUs to produce the pellet  and 10 BTUs to operate the stove .  You have only 10 BTUs in cost of operating the stove .  Not 110 BTUs   The greenbacks have erased the 100 BTUs.

You leave them on the pallet in the sacks they came in  so you do not have to stack them. 

As for the old lady and the 40 lb. Bag  she opens it and scoops out a small bucket full and dumps that into the stove .

Don't try to make things harder than need be  .

I don't use pellets . I heat with wood  ,  Lickwood   






Lickwood petrolium  gas.      Real easy, set the Honeywell to the desired number and the house stays at that temp like magic.
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Shagy

Have a  Fisher at my camp. been there for yrs. We have had to open the doors and windows many times to cool down the camp but the bull dog just slides a little closer to the stove. If this stove could talk.... Ohhh Boy
The problem with common scene is that it's not so common...... Mark Twain

StephenRice

As far as pellet stoves are concerned, how come I have not heard anyone talking about using cherry pits?  I guess they are just not available where you guys are at, but I believe they sell a lot of them in Michigan and I think that the heat produced is considerable.  And, what about corn?  Any stoves capable of using wood chips?  It seems like that would be a good way to go if possible due to the large amount of limbs often wasted.  It does not seem like it would be hard to dry wood chips in even a home made drum style kiln dryer.

Anyone using a Timberline wood stove?  I remember them from when I was young and really liked their simplicity.  They were dangerous to children because they got so hot, but that also translated to good heating for the house with their good plate steel construction.  I often wanted to build my own stove similar in style to the old Timberlines.

Also, I installed a new soapstone wood stove for an old fella some years ago.  It was from the Woodstock Soapstone Company from New Hampshire.  Anyone used one of those or like it?  The one I installed had a triple catalytic converter and was pretty efficient.  The soapstone would hold the heat for quite a while, even after the fire went out.

I also like those big old-fashioned kitchen stoves that had an oven in them.  Anyone got one of those?
"Pure gold fears no fire!" - (Ancient Chinese proverb)  What do you fear?

SwampDonkey

Kitchen wood stoves yes, for the most part they are the Enterprise/Fawcett company out of Sackville. My uncle still cooks on his in fall and winter, I remember grandmother had hot water off it in winter, but they removed that part. We had one here to until dad remodeled the house. There are still a good many around in older houses. I was at one old home not many years ago, maybe 3, and the old lady was doing all the cooking on the wood stove in summer. No electric stove there. ;D The old timer was enjoying the heat and it was probably 75 degrees outside. He spend all his spare time cutting firewood. Piles and piles of firewood all over the farm. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

doctorb

We still have a working Harrowsmith wood stove from cental Ontario in our cabin.  May be 40-50 years old by now.  I had to replace the glass because of cracking and found out they have been out of business for some time.  Anyone else have one?

Doctorb
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

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