Can't figure this one out (Identified)

[pbenven]

Hi, this is my first post. I'm in extreme southern Quebec, very close to Malone, NY. I have these trees in my field that don't seem to show up in my Audubon field guide. They have very large (7-10") heart-shaped leaves with small saw-tooth. The closest matching leaf in the guide is a Royal Paulonia (sp?). I don't think those grow up here and the bark type doesn't match. It's very smooth, grey with lighter grey blotches. The largest one is about 20' high and has a 6-8" trunk. They grow really fast so the wood is soft. Small (under 1") white flowers in late spring.
I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to tree identification, but I would at least like to be able to name the trees on my own property.

Thanks,

Paul

[Tom]

Hey Paul,
welcome to the Forestry Forum.

This is a good place to ask what kind of tree you have because we are all trying to figure out what our trees are.  It has gotten to be a game and I have been putting a lot of stuff up from the Southeast just for challenge sake.  We are having  fun trying to ID this stuff and welcome something from your neighborhood.  I hope that you join in on some of our other shananigins 'cause we're having a blast.  Join in and help us figure this out.

Do you have the means of submitting a picture?

[Tom]

Paul,

Without more to go on I suggest that you look at pictures of Basswood, Eastern Redbud and Northern Catalpa. Perhaps you can find a different picture than the one in the Audobon book just to get a better comparison.

It would help if you could provide some more information along the lines of.
Leaf configuration (simple or compound)
flower cofiguration(# of petals, color, location)
fruit (berrie, nut, droop etc.)
Barks looks at bottom of trunk as well as up in the tree or on younger branches.

If you have ever used a dichotomous key then you will know things to look for. If not then a look at www.hort.uconn.edu will give you an example.

[pbenven]

Tom,

A digital camera is still on the wish list.

I have Basswood trees (Linden to some folks up here)growing naturally and also 4 Northen Catalpas (Indian Bean, Cigar tree) on my front lawn. The shape of the leaves are similar to the Basswood, except they are much larger. The size is closer to the Northen Catalpa, just not as pointy. The bark is very smooth, like a Maple or even Beech.

I'll take a better look tomorrow, noting the the things you said to check for. I'll also try and get my hands on a camera.

After we figure this one out, I have a few more to go.

Paul

[Tom]

This looks like a real challenge.  I will have to go back in my brain cells and try to recall some of those superlatives I learned in the Navy.  I think I may need them before this exercise is over :D 8)

You seem to be in the northern reaches of the Sycamore and your description seems to fit it and the Planetree.  Both you will find in the Audubon guide. Take a look at these and see if they are familiar to you.  The Sycamore grows very fast but its wood is not soft.  (flowers might be questionable)

[pbenven]

Alright, I'm going to go back on what I wrote earlier and say it's some kind of Linden. The leaves match, although these smaller trees seem to have larger leaves (7 - 9"). Do they get smaller with the age of the tree? Also, the bark is much different from that of the mature trees - dark grey, smooth, and somewhat shiny. I cut off a branch to bring back to the garage for "analysis" (too many horse flies in the field) - very fragrant.
Until I get my hands on a camera, I'll live with this identification.

Paul

[L. Wakefield]

   This time of year, linden may be in bloom. Small fragrant flowers, and they are borne on a stalk that has a different type of flat 'leaf' thing that is different from the heart shaped leaf. Some lindens only flower every other year. i don't know whether or not the wood itself is fragrant. American linden is also called basswood.   lw

[Jeff]

Hi Paul,

I had a conversation on the live help with Tom this Morning and I told him I thought I had the answer, but I think you now may be your own best detective. I thought you had young examples of mature trees known to you. Many species of trees have larger leaves when immature. Take the Royal Paulonia as an extreme example. They have leaves as large as 3 feet in the first couple years!

I also noticed this with a species I will put in the leave I.D. after I get my pictures developed. Leaves as large as 12 inches on the young trees and more like 5 to 6 on the mature trees.

[Tom]

That's pretty observant Jeff.  Now that you mention it I have seen "Huge" leaves on water oak when the tree is quite young and especially if it is growing in a thicket.  Leaves that would be 3/4 the size of your palm when an adult tree leaf would be no wider than two fingers.  I never paid any attention to it before from an identification standpoint.

Paul, wish real hard for the camera.  Mine has been a world of enjoyment to me. Almost as much fun as my metal detector and a lot more convenient.