Going to need a planer for my various projects going forward. Can be a stationary type, as I can make a cart to move. Prefer a self feeding one. $1,500 or so budget.
Also how does a planer/molder work?
Thanks
As to how they work - you put ugly, nasty, fresh off the mill, wood in one side and out the other pops perfection, dental crown moulding. :D At least that is the theory. In all seriousness there is a big difference between a planer and a moulder. What is is you need to make?
Williams and Hussey
Find a decent used one with knives for the price you're looking for. Capacity is a little limited but it depends on what you are looking to do.
Edit: rereading your post, it looks like you primary want a planer so my suggestion isn't too relevant.
I bought a Grizzly 12" planer/molder off Craigslist that's probably in that price range new.
I used it as a molder once, but I mostly just need a few feet of something, so make that by hand with molding planes. It did fine as a molder too, but is pretty slow, since you have to do multiple passes.
As a planer, it is surprisingly good, for a finish planer. The feed rollers are rubber, and with sharp knives, the pieces come out with little left to do to them.
I use it as the final pass when I'm making replacement window sash, and use that surface as the outside, which will be painted, without touching it again.
Check with WDH and see where he got that tree smoother from. :D
I would look for a used one in your price range. There are deals to be had if you are patient waiting on machines that were previously owned by cabinet shops, schools, old men that are no longer here and their survivors want the stuff gone, or folks who went big into a hobby and now are focused on other squirrels.
Good luck with your search.
I bought a Grizzly 15" wide planer, G0453px model. Has a helical cutterhead, and works well. It is not a commercial grade, but works well for planing several boards at a time. Do not expect it to plane boards by the truck load. Motor will get hot and shut down. But you can run it for an hour at a time and it is fine. Dust collection on it is great, have not broken one tooth on the planer. Turned the cutters last year for the first time. If you are going to make trim for your new house, get a shaper with power feed.
If you do look for used equipment be careful that the equipment is not 3 phase. A lot of the larger planers from businesses and institutions are 3 phase. Yes there are devices that can be bought or rigged up to convert single phase household to 3 phase but its can cost quite a bit.
There are a lot of 15" Deltas and delta clones out there that do a reasonable job with single phase power. For $1500 you can buy a new Grizzly version (with standard knives). I think Delta gave up trying to compete in this market as I think they were buying them from the same shops in Taiwan that the other clone firms do. Nevertheless its a four post design and lot beefier than the portable 12" and 13" units.
A big upgrade is carbide insert heads in place of knives. The inserts last longer and the inserts can be rotated for new edge while the knifes usually need removing and sent out for sharpening. Older units can be retrofitted to carbide but in the 15" range its $800 to $1000 experience. Carbide heads are decidedly quieter.
You might look at the hawk planer. I think they are made in KS so almost local to you. Also, you can put in molding knives or a gang saw if you are making molding. New price may be above your budget, but worth a look!
Quote from: Southside on July 26, 2021, 09:05:51 AM
As to how they work - you put ugly, nasty, fresh off the mill, wood in one side and out the other pops perfection, dental crown moulding. :D At least that is the theory. In all seriousness there is a big difference between a planer and a moulder. What is is you need to make?
Ha, ha. I guess I should've put it if a molder combo is worth buying vs a stand alone
@peakbagger (https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=profile;u=44288) yes, many are 3 phase. Have had to watch that on some other things. Sounds like the insert head is a lot better
Thanks everyone else also so far
I wouldn't recommend that anyone get that Grizzly planer/molder, I mentioned earlier, as their only planer. One that size will put you to sleep taking any material off to amount to anything. I only use it for the last pass on finish work.
If you're going to smooth much wood at all, you need weight, and horsepower. I don't know of any combination planer/molder that's in that category. There may be one, but I would expect it would be Way out of a 1500 dollar budget.
It would be worth your time seeing some different ones run some wood.
I ended up buying a WEN with the spiral head. Doesn't take off a ton of material per pass but very happy with how it works and it was less than $400 when I bought it.
If you are looking for a basic homeowner planer this may be worth looking at. I am very happy. One day I may spend more money and get a nicer one but for what I am doing the end result is a nice smooth board.
Quote from: Sedgehammer on July 26, 2021, 08:06:35 AM
Going to need a planer for my various projects going forward.
What sorts of various projects would these be? Hard to recommend something without knowing what you want it to do.
Alan
I don't know anything about moulders. I think the best "lunchbox" planer is the Dewalt 735. It is a 13" planer that does a very good job. If I were to buy a new planer/moulder I'm sure it would be from Grizzly. They sell a 13" planer/molder and molding knives to go with it. About $1500.
I've purchased two used Woodmaster 718 each for under the $1500. I've had to add some blades, and other items but they were both usable as planers just as I found them. Search Craig's list, etc and keep your eyes open. They seem to be well built heavy duty units (several hundred pounds each) and have lots of application/capabilities. They work very well for me.
I had a foley/belsaw 12" planer/molder that I considered putting some money into, but decided to spend the money on a shaper and feeder to make flooring.
Size of the material you'll be running through it determines what size of planer/moulder you'll need. I have two woodmaster planer/moulders. One is a 712(takes 7" tall by 12" wide material) and a 725(7" by 25"). I bought them both used, so they were relatively inexpensive. $400 for the little one and $850 for the big one. I use the small one exclusively for trim/moulding/siding and the big one for planing boards and slabs. I'd like to get the attachment to hook routers up to cut the tongue and groove for flooring but haven't made that jump yet. If you're doing boards and some moulding, I'd suggest a 12", but if you're looking at doing slabs or large glue-ups for cabinets then I'd go bigger.
Levi
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/P2180002.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1627428184)
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10125/P2180006.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1627428184)
A Belsaw at work. Pictures were from 17 years ago when I ran all the trim for a 4,000 square foot house. They can be found frequently in the $200 to $400 range. Most will need a new rubber infeed roller (cheap) from Belsaw. They will have a motor from 2 to 5 horsepower. Anything works but the 5 hp will take a 1/8" bite when planing a 12" oak board. At one time I think I had four of them set up for different tasks. I always got molding knives custom made in Kansas City. Fax em a drawing and had a knife two days later at reasonable cost.
A Woodmaster would do the same with dust collection, variable speed, and probably a few other neat options.
A locale craftsman, Gary Striegler, is the poster boy for Woodmaster. He teaches, writes, and builds award winning seven figure homes. l linked to his trim page for examples of what can be done with simple machines. Gary Striegler Trim (https://craftsmanbuildersnwa.com/our-work/gallery/view/category/7) This guy really walks the talk. Excellent craftsman and just a fine person.
Next up would be the Williams & Hussey along with the Grizzly clone called the Shop Fox W1812. I've had both. Less rejects when molding over the Belsaw but they don't do a very good job planing and limited to 7" width.
good info all, thanks
I am looking at some used belsaw units, but am looking for a heliacal head if possible
As to what I'll be using it all for. That's an unknown as I don't know how far down the rabbit hole I will go with doing all the work or how fine my wife wants the beams, floor joists and related
Is a powermatic 100 any good?
I like them. Old iron is good in my opinion; I have a lot of old iron.
Sometimes too old can be bad though. The drive gears tend to wear out on heavily used machines. (like if you were buying it from a cabinet shop or the like)
If you're looking at older machines, the price difference between a 12in and a 15in machine can be negligible and you'll never feel bad about having that extra 3inches.
I have had a Powermatic 16 inch planer for about 30 years, It has been fine.
Quote from: Sedgehammer on September 15, 2021, 09:04:23 AM
Is a powermatic 100 any good?
Yes, Powermatic 100's are a sought after small planer. There are a lot of references and threads regarding that planer on OWWM.org
Doug in SW IA
Couldn't find anything in my price range close enough. Most of the woodmasters were 12". Bought a grizzly 15" G1021 on wheeled cart. The guys dad did some hobby wood working with it. Paid $400
Going to order a helical head for it me thinks I can. Any brand preferred ?
Check if grizzly has the option to order a helical head. Sometimes they offer the upgrade.
No sense in spending shelix money on a grizzly machine for what you're doing.
Just my 2 cents.
Quote from: VB-Milling on September 17, 2021, 11:28:03 PM
Check if grizzly has the option to order a helical head. Sometimes they offer the upgrade.
No sense in spending shelix money on a grizzly machine for what you're doing.
Just my 2 cents.
Shelix and grizzly are both $748. Can buy a Elephas for $572 thru amazonian
I would say helical heads are worth it in any machine. Shelix are made in USA and grizzly heads are not if that matters. I believe the shelix heads will be the same diameter as original and the grizzly will be smaller diameter.
The point of getting a helical head for me is that all I have to do is either clean or turn the cutters, and do not have to remove the blades, sharpen and re-install. Putting blades in a cutterhead and getting them set correctly and even are not easy when you are young, but when you are old and need reading glasses to read your tape measure, makes helical the only way to go for me.
Quote from: farmfromkansas on September 19, 2021, 04:56:35 PM
The point of getting a helical head for me is that all I have to do is either clean or turn the cutters, and do not have to remove the blades, sharpen and re-install. Putting blades in a cutterhead and getting them set correctly and even are not easy when you are young, but when you are old and need reading glasses to read your tape measure, makes helical the only way to go for me.
This is my thoughts pretty much summed up
We are in a similar situation as the original poster.
We sell rough cut lumber(Cedar, Hemlock, and Tamarack) but every year we have a few customers that ask for decking boards. I think I could get away with just surfacing the top face and the two top edge round overs. Final boards would be 1" x 5 1/2". Would a 2.5hp belsaw moulder have enough grunt to make it in a single pass? I do not want to invest in a larger machine just now as I'm unsure if demand would justify it.
I don't mind it being a slow process as if it does sell well, I will be able to justify a larger machine.
I'm sure this will pick up some comments but I'm not necessarily drinking the cool-aid on helical heads. Not sure I would be in a huge rush to pay the premium for one.
I have machines with traditional high speed steel cutters, Hammer (Felder) blades and Byrd Shelix cutters. My favorite is easily the Hammer (Felder) system - fast change, affordable and smooth cuts. Traditionals are what they are - reliable and get the job done. Helical heads cut relatively smooth and are quiet but they certainly aren't the end-all; they can be very frustrating when they are problematic.
As a hobbyist, I didn't use my machines a great deal until I retired. Had several cutters snap and come flying out of the machine on the first use of a new 20" Powermatic. Powermatic didn't seem overly interested at the time but they did send me 10 replacement cutters. I lost a couple more cutters every time I used the machine, including some of the Powermatic replacements, so I decided to try some German made replacements. They seemed to work and I eventually ended up replacing all 100 cutters @ $5 per on my nickel. I did speak to Byrd (U.S. maker of the cutting head) and they had some interesting excuse which I would not even begin trying to repeat. They were certainly nice enough and also willing to sell me cutters they were confidant would not break. Low and behold, German made cutters. So my planer only ended up costing $500 more and few dozen hours time than what I expected when I placed the order. All of this and you get to pay a premium up front for the heads as well - such a deal.
And don't think those cutters just pop in and out. Oh no, the cutters need to be cleaned before rotating, the seats must be cleaned before mounting, the threads must be cleaned on both the head and screws, and you must follow the proper tightening procedure which includes "drawing" the cutter into place using the taper of the screw and torqueing the screw to exact spec.
I bought a 25" Woodmaster about the same time as my Powermatic. Ordered a 25" optional helical head for it. Box has never been opened and it is stored neatly under one of my benches. Maybe I'll try it some cold winter day when I have plenty of time and patience.
Just my experience. A bit different perspective than the normal helical praise.
Good report. Always helps to hear about various people's experiences. I've never had a cutter break, but maybe my cutters happen to German. It's been at least 10 years since I bought any cutters so could be things have changed in cutter land.
I find that having both a helical head planer and a conventional head planer to be a good thing. Some tasks seem to go better on one style vs. the other. Good to have options.
Personally I prefer rotating cutters to aligning knives. Really I'd choose to avoid both jobs if I could. Maybe I need a better approach to setting knives.
Nice report. It'll be interesting to hear if others have had cutters break for no reason.
I've had cutters break for no reason, especially Chinese ones.
By far, the easiest planer blade management system is the European "Tersa" style head. Fast, easy and no adjusting required. Plus the blades are inexpensive.
When changing carbide cutters in a wide head, you really have to spend some time cleaning the head before the insert will sit right.
It is an all day job for me to clean the heads and turn all of cutters in my 25" Oliver jointer/planer. Fortunately I don't have to do it very often.
As far as Moulder's are concerned, for every piece of crown molding we make in ours, we make 10,000 pieces of tongue and groove. Thus a moulder with side cutter heads is more practical for me than something like a W&H face moulder.
Everything has a cost . Either in time or money . One of the things I'm looking for is not having the 'wave' on the finished wood with the helical
Quote from: scsmith42 on February 09, 2022, 08:43:39 PM
I've had cutters break for no reason, especially Chinese ones.
By far, the easiest planer blade management system is the European "Tersa" style head. Fast, easy and no adjusting required. Plus the blades are inexpensive.
When changing carbide cutters in a wide head, you really have to spend some time cleaning the head before the insert will sit right.
It is an all day job for me to clean the heads and turn all of cutters in my 25" Oliver jointer/planer. Fortunately I don't have to do it very often.
As far as Moulder's are concerned, for every piece of crown molding we make in ours, we make 10,000 pieces of tongue and groove. Thus a moulder with side cutter heads is more practical for me than something like a W&H face moulder.
I changed the cutters on my 20 planer with spiral head and thought i saved some dollars with the chinese replacement knifes, long story short half broke when installing and i ended up using half of them and half of the old cutter. even the good ones keep braking apart days and weeks later, don't buy the chinese crap. bought 100 new Makita cutters for 500$.
and yes although i'm a fan of spiral heads the changing/turning of the cutters takes several hours. but then they last for months if you really use your planer. for a hobbyist they last years.
Quote from: Sedgehammer on February 12, 2022, 10:25:44 AMOne of the things I'm looking for is not having the 'wave' on the finished wood with the helical
then buy the straight spiral head where the cutters (14x 14x 2mm) are aligned 90 degree to the cut. the helical spiral head does a shear cut (15x 15x 2.5mm, slightly round cutters)
my planer has a straight spiral and does a perfect finish, the jointer has a shear cut spiral head and does leave some "waves" on the finish board, depending on the speed you feed the board thru
Likely not he best, hopefully not the worst, but I got a WEN. It will plane 6" thick and 12.5 wide. I paid about $350.
I bought the spiral head WEN. I have been happy with everything except chipping some of the cutters almost immediately. Other than that its been a good machine and leaves an incredible surface finish.