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Author Topic: For the Chainsaw Millers...  (Read 904 times)

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Offline VB-Milling

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For the Chainsaw Millers...
« on: May 02, 2021, 08:40:01 AM »
I recently posted about my small sideyard CSM'ing operation.  I've got a pretty basic setup.  Chinese knockoff alaskan mill, 14ft aluminum ladder, Husky 460 Rancher 24" bar, various ripping chains, mostly OREGON 72RD084G 84 Drive Link 3/8-Inch Ripping Saw Chain.

Something has changed drastically since the last time I milled with any regularity.  Yes, CSM'ing is slow...but lately, its REALLY slow and more physical with rocking of the saw needed.  The chips are fine dust which is indicative of a dull chain.  Sharpened the chain, dressed the rakers, no change.  Changed to a brand new chain, no change.  Changed to a cross cut chain, no change, but nice chips when crosscutting.  Same issues in various kinds of wood (pine, cedar, and I think I tried maple as well)

So if its maybe not the chain, and the saw is running great, I looked to the bar.  I always clean the bar before starting to mill.  Making sure the oil passages are clear, the groove is clear, sprocket spins freely etc.  Checking all of that again, I'm back to square one.

I seem to remember getting nice long ribbons of shavings when I first started and that has slowly faded.  Could it be time for a new bar?  I'm sort of at a loss for what the problem is.

With a waiting period of 4+ months on a BSM, I'd like to keep CSM'ing through the summer to get stuff stacked and drying for projects next year.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  
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Online Tacotodd

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2021, 08:57:47 AM »
Since youve got more chains, try to make your depth gauges a few thousands lower and constantly experiment. Chains are ultimately a consumable product, like fuel & bar oil, but not to the same degree. If it gets to grabby, its time to start sharpening the cutters until the grabby goes away.

Always experiment. You wont know until you try. Thats how most of us got through life.
Trying harder everyday.

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2021, 09:05:18 AM »
Assuming the chains and bars are right, ribbons happen when there is some angle between the chain the axis of the log.  Perpendicular makes dust, angles make ribbons.  Parallel makes long strings.  For CSM work, somewhere in the middle is a good place.

I suspect you were feeding the Alaskan at a slight angle which would give long chips, and now you are feeding it very perpendicular which means the chain is perfectly cross cutting the grain and it will make powder dust.

I always liked a nice angle or so instead of perpendicular to the log 
YellowHammerisms:

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If it wont roll, its not a log; its still a piece of tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not pieces of trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, theyre burned, and you cant fix them.  Dont burn the cookies.

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2021, 09:12:37 AM »
YH got it right. Thats called noodling for the uninitiated. Its faster because it just seems like it goes better, but, like everything else that any man enjoys, its usually kinda dangerous to one degree or another. Bottom line, be careful in any thing that you do. 
Trying harder everyday.

Offline SpaceBus

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2021, 09:31:30 AM »
A few questions to try and diagnose what's going on. I have only had my mill since last summer and just milling when I have logs available. However, with my limited experience I have made plenty of mistakes and burned up a couple of bars, so let's see if you are having similar issues that I've had for the past year. 

Are you sure the saw is running at 100%? 
How is the finish on the boards/slabs?
Are you getting a consistent thickness for the whole slab?
Can you post some pics of the bar? 

I agree with Tacotodd that your rakers may need to come down lower than you think as you wear down the cutters. I don't go by any kind of set guide or measurement, rather I take them down until it cuts the way I want. 
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Offline VB-Milling

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2021, 09:45:04 AM »
Since youve got more chains, try to make your depth gauges a few thousands lower and constantly experiment. Chains are ultimately a consumable product, like fuel & bar oil, but not to the same degree. If it gets to grabby, its time to start sharpening the cutters until the grabby goes away.

Always experiment. You wont know until you try. Thats how most of us got through life.


Assuming the chains and bars are right, ribbons happen when there is some angle between the chain the axis of the log.  Perpendicular makes dust, angles make ribbons.  Parallel makes long strings.  For CSM work, somewhere in the middle is a good place.

I suspect you were feeding the Alaskan at a slight angle which would give long chips, and now you are feeding it very perpendicular which means the chain is perfectly cross cutting the grain and it will make powder dust.

I always liked a nice angle or so instead of perpendicular to the log

Because I'm new to sharpening my own chains, I've been apprehensive about experimenting, but point taken about chains being consumables like anything else.  I shouldn't be afraid to screw a few of them up while sharpening or adjusting the rakers.

Good information on the feeding angles, I had no idea.  I just assumed fine sawdust meant dull chain.  Now I know!   I will experiment with how I feed the mill and see what happens.
Waiting on my HM126 delivery...Expected Sep 2021

Offline SpaceBus

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2021, 09:49:18 AM »
How are you sharpening the chain? 
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Offline VB-Milling

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2021, 09:51:55 AM »
So in looking more into this issue, I think I screwed up.

It looks like some .050 in. Gauge chains made their way into my rotation and I have a .058 in. Gauge bar that came stock.  Am I wearing a strange groove into the .058 in. Gauge factory bar?  Should I order a new bar?  What is the .058 in. Gauge measurement?
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Offline VB-Milling

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2021, 09:54:39 AM »
A few questions to try and diagnose what's going on. I have only had my mill since last summer and just milling when I have logs available. However, with my limited experience I have made plenty of mistakes and burned up a couple of bars, so let's see if you are having similar issues that I've had for the past year.

Are you sure the saw is running at 100%?
How is the finish on the boards/slabs?
Are you getting a consistent thickness for the whole slab?
Can you post some pics of the bar?

I agree with Tacotodd that your rakers may need to come down lower than you think as you wear down the cutters. I don't go by any kind of set guide or measurement, rather I take them down until it cuts the way I want.
100% sure the saw is operating in tip top shape
The finish is pretty good, minimal chain marks or ridges.  I can try and get some pics today
I haven't measured with anything more than a tape measure, but they are pretty darn consistent down to the 1/8" I would say
I can try and get some pics today.

How are you sharpening the chain?
By hand on the saw locked in a vise.

Waiting on my HM126 delivery...Expected Sep 2021

Offline Iwawoodwork

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2021, 12:08:18 PM »
Think seriously about getting a electric chain sharpener, that way you can do a better job of keeping the tooth angle the same , even a Harbor Freight sharpener about $30.00 will keep the teeth uniform.

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2021, 12:26:17 PM »
So in looking more into this issue, I think I screwed up.

It looks like some .050 in. Gauge chains made their way into my rotation and I have a .058 in. Gauge bar that came stock.  Am I wearing a strange groove into the .058 in. Gauge factory bar?  Should I order a new bar?  What is the .058 in. Gauge measurement?


There's your trouble, the chain is laying over.
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2021, 12:59:09 PM »
Exactly, even if it wasnt worn out it probably is now if you were using 050 chain.  The chain can cock to one side and then the drive link wears out the bottom of the groove wider than the top.  So now all chain will lay over (cock to one side).  This will happen anyway with the proper gauge chain.  It helps to run the chain pretty tight and to keep the bar dressed at 90 degrees, and to close the rails at the top once in a while tapping with a hammer on your vise flat both sides. 

.050 is .050 inches, fifty thousanths of an inch. 

Get a new bar and see how that works.  If you dont need a new bar yet then hang it up on the wall, you'll need it soon anyway.
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Offline VB-Milling

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2021, 03:37:39 PM »
Exactly, even if it wasnt worn out it probably is now if you were using 050 chain.  The chain can cock to one side and then the drive link wears out the bottom of the groove wider than the top.  So now all chain will lay over (cock to one side).  This will happen anyway with the proper gauge chain.  It helps to run the chain pretty tight and to keep the bar dressed at 90 degrees, and to close the rails at the top once in a while tapping with a hammer on your vise flat both sides.

.050 is .050 inches, fifty thousanths of an inch.

Get a new bar and see how that works.  If you dont need a new bar yet then hang it up on the wall, you'll need it soon anyway.


There's your trouble, the chain is laying over.

Thanks for the explanation.  Makes sense now.  I ordered a few new chains from Bailey's a week or so ago.  I'll get a new 0.058in bar to match that chain and see how it goes.
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2021, 03:49:54 PM »
 

 

 

 

Not as obvious in the maple and pine, but its clear in the cedar how I've been walking the mill down the log rather than consistently feeding it.
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2021, 04:22:25 PM »
Remember, the harder, drier the wood the harder it will be and the harder to csm. Pine should be nice and easy with possible curls. Maple, not as much. Also are you using milking chain and set to the correct angles? They are not the same for cross cut.

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2021, 04:23:05 PM »
That .050 in an .058 guage bar was likely your whole problem. If you didn't run it with the .050 a bunch, I'd guess your bar is fine. Put an .058 chain on and try it. I bought a firewood processor through an online auction last fall. It only had about 35 hours on it, but the original owner had managed to screw up several things on it that caused me hours of head scratching and troubleshooting. One of those items was the saw chain. It would feed and cut great, but then randomly stop 3/4 of the way through the cut. After a bunch of troubleshooting, I finally figured out that the meathead had put a .063 404 pitch chainsaw chain on the .080 guage 404 harvester bar. I put the correct chain on it and all is well.
  Hand filing teeth consistently can be tricky. Rakers even more so. You can just count your strokes, there are also filing plates available that guide the file to the correct depth. 
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2021, 06:30:28 PM »
The Granberg bar mounted grinder jig works well and I have had better luck with it on the mill than the file jig. The file jigs seem to do best with crosscutting profiles. I think the files leave a more coarse edge, like scissors or shears would have, compared to the very smooth cutter I get after using the grinder. Having equal length cutters and rakers seem to be more important when milling compared to cross cutting. 
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2021, 10:16:01 PM »
One thing we'll do is make the initial cut from the ladder running with the bar perpendicular to the log. The next cut we'll run diagonal to try to hit the high spots and improve the surface level. The next cut is either perp or diagonal the other direction. Basically trying to avoid riding in and duplicating any surface irregularities from the previous cut.

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2021, 10:39:17 PM »
I am one who acquires what others discard.  This bar wouldnt buck a piece of firewood with a new chain.  Itd cut a crescent and stall in the cut until it smoked and sparked.. Weve all been there.  


I made a bar rail closer and got pretty good at fitting rails to drivers and dressing/squaring them up.


This is the lumber finish that junk bar produces when the chain cant keel over in the saddle.  



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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2021, 12:40:41 AM »
Yeah, weve ALL made some, uh, silly mistakes concerning a chainsaw, but youll learn, thats how we progress (in general). But the trick IS TO LEARN. None of US are perfect, but we can only try harder for the next day and the next time. Like OGHs sign-off on his staying out of trouble thread, tomorrow is another day, and so it always will be, for us at least. 

Just be careful when youre using the powered grinders, it is too easy to get to aggressive with them and ruin a chain. Heat damage AND never being able to hand sharpen again. But (thank you heaven) its a consumable. Less expensive than a new saw & easier to buy & replace than piston rings.
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2021, 07:29:23 AM »
I am one who acquires what others discard.  This bar wouldnt buck a piece of firewood with a new chain.  Itd cut a crescent and stall in the cut until it smoked and sparked.. Weve all been there.  


I made a bar rail closer and got pretty good at fitting rails to drivers and dressing/squaring them up.


This is the lumber finish that junk bar produces when the chain cant keel over in the saddle.  


(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

I still have the two bars I smoked when I first got the mill. Both are Oregon Powermatch/Powercut bars with about 1/8"+ gap between the chain and the bar when fully tensioned close to the powerhead. The hand crank makes it very easy to kill a bar I'm learning. 
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2021, 07:57:10 AM »
Are you using a steel cable on the hand crank?  Its better to use a piece of nylon rope or cord, pretty thin, so that it stretches and provides a better, smoother, softer pull.  

How are you oiling?  I ran a CSM for the better part of a year and never gapped a bar.  I did wear out the powerhead eventually.  I used lots of oil, and eventually even used a water drip from my garden hose.  

CSMillimg is hard on everything.  

If you want to see your saw cutting ribbons and strings, lay it parallel to the log, and dog from the end of the log, as if you were trimming off a root flare.

Sounds like you found a problem with the chain and bar.  Good catch.
 
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2021, 08:04:22 AM »
Remember, the harder, drier the wood the harder it will be and the harder to csm. Pine should be nice and easy with possible curls. Maple, not as much. Also are you using milking chain and set to the correct angles? They are not the same for cross cut.

I use a ripping chain with factory set angles.  15 degrees if I remember correctly.
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Offline VB-Milling

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2021, 08:08:27 AM »
That .050 in an .058 guage bar was likely your whole problem. If you didn't run it with the .050 a bunch, I'd guess your bar is fine. Put an .058 chain on and try it. I bought a firewood processor through an online auction last fall. It only had about 35 hours on it, but the original owner had managed to screw up several things on it that caused me hours of head scratching and troubleshooting. One of those items was the saw chain. It would feed and cut great, but then randomly stop 3/4 of the way through the cut. After a bunch of troubleshooting, I finally figured out that the meathead had put a .063 404 pitch chainsaw chain on the .080 guage 404 harvester bar. I put the correct chain on it and all is well.
  Hand filing teeth consistently can be tricky. Rakers even more so. You can just count your strokes, there are also filing plates available that guide the file to the correct depth.
I put a brand new 0.058 chain on it (granted it was a cross cut chain), but I had the same result so I think the bar is pooched.

From what I'm hearing, it sounds if I'm planning to mill with any regularity, I should get a chain saw sharpener.  I have a couple guides for filing the rakers, but they seem less than consistent.

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2021, 08:10:24 AM »
The Granberg bar mounted grinder jig works well and I have had better luck with it on the mill than the file jig. The file jigs seem to do best with crosscutting profiles. I think the files leave a more coarse edge, like scissors or shears would have, compared to the very smooth cutter I get after using the grinder. Having equal length cutters and rakers seem to be more important when milling compared to cross cutting.

I will look into that.  CSM'ing is more fun when you don't have to fight your way down the log more than necessary!
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2021, 08:11:44 AM »
One thing we'll do is make the initial cut from the ladder running with the bar perpendicular to the log. The next cut we'll run diagonal to try to hit the high spots and improve the surface level. The next cut is either perp or diagonal the other direction. Basically trying to avoid riding in and duplicating any surface irregularities from the previous cut.


Making multiple passes never occurred to me, but it makes sense as that first surface dictates the quality of the rest of the cuts.  Thanks!

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2021, 08:14:01 AM »
I am one who acquires what others discard.  This bar wouldnt buck a piece of firewood with a new chain.  Itd cut a crescent and stall in the cut until it smoked and sparked.. Weve all been there.  


I made a bar rail closer and got pretty good at fitting rails to drivers and dressing/squaring them up.

Once I have a new bar in hand, I'll definitely be playing around with the "junk" bar and see if I can revive it.  It would be nice to have 2 or more bars anyways.

Is your bar rail closer something you made to fit in a vise?
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2021, 08:17:43 AM »
Yeah, weve ALL made some, uh, silly mistakes concerning a chainsaw, but youll learn, thats how we progress (in general). But the trick IS TO LEARN. None of US are perfect, but we can only try harder for the next day and the next time. Like OGHs sign-off on his staying out of trouble thread, tomorrow is another day, and so it always will be, for us at least.

Just be careful when youre using the powered grinders, it is too easy to get to aggressive with them and ruin a chain. Heat damage AND never being able to hand sharpen again. But (thank you heaven) its a consumable. Less expensive than a new saw & easier to buy & replace than piston rings.
I'll make many more CSM'ing mistakes and I look forward to all the lessons from it.  Then we can start the process all over again when I start BSM'ing LOL.

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2021, 08:20:56 AM »
I started off with a homemade alaskan and that needed a ton of muscle to move at all.  I rigged up a string winch to act as my tip end partner and it worked but i always had a seesaw cut pattern that made obviously chainsawed lumber.


Needing planks from a chainsaw, i finally made a junkpile track and carriage for the sawhead to ride on and its 10x better than alaskan.  Partly due to the clean lumber finish and partly due to the ease of clamping a log and maintaining squareness because of backstops.  Never laddering and no tee squares etc.  The saw also does not need winching anymore.. It just walks along.   Not fast like a bandmill and the feedrate is the feedrate no matter how much you push.  But you dont really have to push hard like an alaskan.  Just keep it running and keep pressure and itll creep forward throwing wood out the side.  When it takes more oomph to go forward something needs looking at. Stop right there and itll cost less.


I dont have any more bar wear issues since im not absolutely cranking the bar and chain into the wood.  Theres a lot less friction.  Doesnt really matter what i have on for a chain.  New or sharpened down, 10* or 30*  ...its pretty consistent.


I do a lot of pauses to idle off heat and about 3 or 4x per 10 foot log ill give a squirt of oil at the tip to shed heat.  If the chain will sizzle oil youve got to make some changes or its gonna eat up.


However.. Once the chain is leaning over theres doom on the way.  Nothing cuts when the bar kerf wallows.  If youre gonna stick with CSM you better tool up to maintain bar kerfs.  You can start with .050 bar and chain then dress them to .058 and finally .063 before making signs out of them or whatever.  The tops of the rails will continually get narrower but it isnt the width of the rail top that keeps the chain sitting on it straight.  Its the fit of the driver into the cheeks of the bar sideplates.  Like a long keel on a boat.   It cant rock if the keel is physically restrained in some type of saddle.  Unfortunately chains seem to be harder than rails these days.  IMO bars should be a bit harder and chains soft so that your drivers wear away and you just replace the chain back to tolerance.
Psalm 37:16

Offline VB-Milling

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2021, 08:24:08 AM »
Are you using a steel cable on the hand crank?  Its better to use a piece of nylon rope or cord, pretty thin, so that it stretches and provides a better, smoother, softer pull.  

How are you oiling?  I ran a CSM for the better part of a year and never gapped a bar.  I did wear out the powerhead eventually.  I used lots of oil, and eventually even used a water drip from my garden hose.  

CSMillimg is hard on everything.  

If you want to see your saw cutting ribbons and strings, lay it parallel to the log, and dog from the end of the log, as if you were trimming off a root flare.

Sounds like you found a problem with the chain and bar.  Good catch.
 
No hand crank setup.  Pushing it down the log with a hand on the powerhead and a hand on the mill handle.

Oiling just using the factory setup.  Trying to be diligent about keeping the galleys freeflowing.  Top off the bar oil every fuel fill up.

When I started to look into buying a bigger powerhead for those larger logs, getting a legit Granberg or similar with a hand crank and aux oiler, getting actual adjustable guide rails instead of a ladder etc etc, I realized I'd be pretty close in cost to a hobby level BSM so that is the direction I'm heading in.

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #30 on: May 03, 2021, 08:32:28 AM »
Needing planks from a chainsaw, i finally made a junkpile track and carriage for the sawhead to ride on and its 10x better than alaskan.  Partly due to the clean lumber finish and partly due to the ease of clamping a log and maintaining squareness because of backstops.  Never laddering and no tee squares etc.  The saw also does not need winching anymore.. It just walks along.

However.. Once the chain is leaning over theres doom on the way.  Nothing cuts when the bar kerf wallows.  If youre gonna stick with CSM you better tool up to maintain bar kerfs.  You can start with .050 bar and chain then dress them to .058 and finally .063 before making signs out of them or whatever.  The tops of the rails will continually get narrower but it isnt the width of the rail top that keeps the chain sitting on it straight.  Its the fit of the driver into the cheeks of the bar sideplates.  Like a long keel on a boat.   It cant rock if the keel is physically restrained in some type of saddle.  Unfortunately chains seem to be harder than rails these days.  IMO bars should be a bit harder and chains soft so that your drivers wear away and you just replace the chain back to tolerance.


The track and carriage sounds similar to what I see on Norwood's site and probably many others .

https://www.norwoodsawmills.com/portamill-pm14

Your last paragraph is much appreciated and is explaining exactly what I was still a little confused on so thank you for that.
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2021, 08:41:44 AM »
You really need a beltsander with an adjustable fence/table and a good tee square to get the fence adjusted to the belt.  Now sand the rail tops until they clean up equally.  


Imagine a train on a track where water has washed out the passenger side ballast and the tie is soft with termites.  That train will continually dip toward the passenger side.  Now imagine the train rides in a very narrow subway tunnel.  Its gonna keep hitting the wall.   

Now in wood, youre chain cutters are moving and the wood bears witness to the pothole in your track.  So its not JUST your sideplates.. Its also the tops of the tracks.  Youve simply got to stay ontop of all aspects of bar maintenance and accept them as begrudging consumables. 
Psalm 37:16

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2021, 08:59:25 AM »
You really need a beltsander with an adjustable fence/table and a good tee square to get the fence adjusted to the belt.  Now sand the rail tops until they clean up equally.  


Imagine a train on a track where water has washed out the passenger side ballast and the tie is soft with termites.  That train will continually dip toward the passenger side.  Now imagine the train rides in a very narrow subway tunnel.  Its gonna keep hitting the wall.  

Now in wood, youre chain cutters are moving and the wood bears witness to the pothole in your track.  So its not JUST your sideplates.. Its also the tops of the tracks.  Youve simply got to stay ontop of all aspects of bar maintenance and accept them as begrudging consumables.

Thanks Mike.  Makes perfect sense.  I've got a fully outfitted 2 car garage woodshop with all the toys so doing what your saying with the belt sander will be easy.  Staying on top of it is the hard part LOL  :D
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2021, 09:34:28 AM »
Hello VB ,
Maybe I've missed it but what saw are you milling with?
If it's 80cc or more you may want to lower the depth gauges much lower than guides will allow. Once you have bar and chain issues sorted out of course. In my opinion when you are making sawdust like a circular sawmill does the milling is enjoyable. If you feel your chain is sharp, but seems slow with more of a powdery sawdust, take a swipe or two of those depth gauges and try it. 

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2021, 09:38:52 AM »
Pferd Universal Edge Sharpener Guide Bar Dresser

These work very well for keeping bar rails true.
Bar rail closers can be found too, be carefull not to close the rails too much.

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2021, 09:41:55 AM »
Hello VB ,
Maybe I've missed it but what saw are you milling with?

It was buried back in my first post.  Its a Husky 460 Rancher.  60cc if I remember correctly.  It was as much saw as I could afford at the time.

I took a lot of flack for buying a Husqvarna while living 3 miles from the Stihl headquarters and manufacturing plant in the US.  :D
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2021, 09:55:31 AM »
That's funny about being 3 miles from Stihl headquarters!
 Being in the 60cc class, go slow when lowering depth gauges,
but I still think you'll want to go lower than you would for cross cutting.

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2021, 10:42:43 AM »
For an Alaskan mill style, a hand crank is easy to fabricate and works extremely well.  Get a piece of steel rod from Lowes, bend a handle on it, slide it in two holes you drill in the uprights, feed on some nylon cord (note in the photo how it is fed under the crossbar) and get to cranking.  The small diameter crank rod gives huge leverage and the stretchy nylon cord gives forgiveness.  

Just pull the trigger and start cranking.  



 

 

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it wont roll, its not a log; its still a piece of tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not pieces of trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, theyre burned, and you cant fix them.  Dont burn the cookies.

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2021, 11:19:44 AM »
For an Alaskan mill style, a hand crank is easy to fabricate and works extremely well.  Get a piece of steel rod from Lowes, bend a handle on it, slide it in two holes you drill in the uprights, feed on some nylon cord (note in the photo how it is fed under the crossbar) and get to cranking.  The small diameter crank rod gives huge leverage and the stretchy nylon cord gives forgiveness.  

Just pull the trigger and start cranking.  

Oh boy!  I sure like that design!

I'll check my metal scrap bin and see what I can come up with.  I know I got some rod in there somewhere!

Thanks for the pics YH! 



 
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2021, 12:08:03 PM »
Link to @YellowHammer original thread with a bit more detail in case anyone is looking for more information.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=65570.msg979358#msg979358

I think I can make something work from this pile I had kicking around.  Every time I organize all my junk, I just keep telling myself it will pay dividends when I don't have to waste time running around for stuff.



 
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2021, 12:11:40 PM »
Pferd Universal Edge Sharpener Guide Bar Dresser

These work very well for keeping bar rails true.
Bar rail closers can be found too, be carefull not to close the rails too much.
I hate that tool.  But i will second not to close up too much which is easily done.  An equally ground chisel can flare them back open and pieces of grinding disc or sandpaper on a razor can hone up the burrs in the kerf.  Cutoff discs work in .063 and and maybe .058 but i dont think i have any fine enough for .050.  Think ive used a twistlock zip wheel for 050 with the pad and paper pulled away from each other.  Its tedious.
Psalm 37:16

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2021, 12:28:35 PM »
I hate that tool.  But i will second not to close up too much which is easily done.  An equally ground chisel can flare them back open and pieces of grinding disc or sandpaper on a razor can hone up the burrs in the kerf.  Cutoff discs work in .063 and and maybe .058 but i dont think i have any fine enough for .050.  Think ive used a twistlock zip wheel for 050 with the pad and paper pulled away from each other.  Its tedious.
I appreciate the feedback.  I'll be playing with the old bar when the new bar comes in.

Pferd Universal Edge Sharpener Guide Bar Dresser

These work very well for keeping bar rails true.
Bar rail closers can be found too, be carefull not to close the rails too much.
I appreciate the link.  I'm hoping I can take what I've learned from this thread and get myself through the 10 or so logs I have to mill up.
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2021, 04:27:09 PM »
Pferd Universal Edge Sharpener Guide Bar Dresser

These work very well for keeping bar rails true.
Bar rail closers can be found too, be carefull not to close the rails too much.
I hate that tool.  But i will second not to close up too much which is easily done.  An equally ground chisel can flare them back open and pieces of grinding disc or sandpaper on a razor can hone up the burrs in the kerf.  Cutoff discs work in .063 and and maybe .058 but i dont think i have any fine enough for .050.  Think ive used a twistlock zip wheel for 050 with the pad and paper pulled away from each other.  Its tedious.
Mike I am curious why you hate it?
I've got bars that each have hundreds of thousands of board feet on them as well as hundreds of cords of treelength and pulp. Only maintenance is with that Pferd.

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2021, 04:28:32 PM »
I'll take it for zero dollars and a half hour!  Thanks @YellowHammer 

Shaft is from an old Craftsman RAS and the handle is from a broken boat winch.

When I get my new chains and bar, I'll take it for a test drive.



 

 

 

 
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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2021, 04:54:19 PM »
Dont look Ethellll;  but it was too late.    

Another one addicted 🥰😔
Trying harder everyday.

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2021, 05:46:04 PM »
Nice.  Pretty fancy for a CSM.  Youll really like this contraption.  Remember to feed the string low through the crossbar to keep the rig from jacking up under load.  Dont forget the high dollar screw in the other end of the log to loop the string.  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it wont roll, its not a log; its still a piece of tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not pieces of trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, theyre burned, and you cant fix them.  Dont burn the cookies.

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2021, 10:15:29 PM »
Mike I am curious why you hate it?
It may well just be me sucking at it, i got one early on and it didnt take me long to dull up all sides of the knife or to get one of the worst splinters ive ever had.  As a metalworker ive had some doozies but theres no sliver like a bar sliver.


One pass on the beltsander imo is much superior to a pferd.  Now in the woods theres obviously no argument for a beltsander.  


So its a good tool that i still reserve the right to hate. 
Psalm 37:16

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Re: For the Chainsaw Millers...
« Reply #47 on: May 08, 2021, 02:01:41 PM »
The new chain and matched 0.058" bar was like night and day to the mismatched chain and bar gauge.  That was definitely the issue.  The hand crank fanciness was just icing on the cake.  Thanks to everyone who helped me get through this issue.  Milled a couple slabs each of white oak and lob pine.  This should get me by until my BSM gets here in Sept.



 

 

 
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