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Author Topic: You filthy swine!  (Read 13213 times)

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Offline Ianab

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #300 on: September 16, 2021, 03:34:46 AM »
Now onto your bread question.  Caution - soap box ahead.  My answer, no don't do it, and don't feed it to pigs either.  Now let me qualify that, if you told me that you and the kids had no food and the chickens were your winter food source and they will die without the bread - then feed it to them.  But you are trying to develop a system that works to grow a product you can sell, so you need to be able to duplicate the results, and don't want to rely on outside inputs that might not be there down the road.  In addition that bread really isn't very nutritious.  The germ is gone from the grain, if it's white bread then it's been bleached, the grain has been heated to a temperature that the nutrient profile has changed, and it's full of other products that won't do your stock any good.  


Agree with this. Bread isn't a balanced diet for chickens any more than it is for humans. As Part of their diet it wont cause a problem, but it's lacking on the vitamins and protein etc. 


Signs go up in local parks now about not feeding bread to the ducks. While ducks can safely eat some bread, if that's their main diet they get a disease where their feathers don't form properly and they can't fly. They suggest taking some poultry food pellets instead for the kids to feed them. More of a balanced diet. Haven't seen the issue at the local pond, but it's not that busy, so the ducks get enough natural foraging to make up for the breads "empty calories". 


If you watch free range chickens they are always digging in the leaves looking for insects etc or picking at some greens. In the Islands chickens simply run wild, if the locals want to keep chickens, they simply feed them and they they now have chickens. In fact, leave your rental door open and you will soon have chickens. :D  Basically no predators there, so chickens just run wild.

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Online mike_belben

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #301 on: September 16, 2021, 10:36:45 AM »
we have a lot of wild chickens here too.  ive had a few stay here a spell, usually fighting birds thatve lost and go off seeking their own turf. 


thanks a ton for all the info jim.  i do actually remember reading about feeding chicken litter and thought what is wrong with people, that is some desperation.  when covid started being news i was driving the truck and live beef was dropping in the middle of a protein buying frenzy at any price. i knew there was an anomaly in play and i needed to start understanding it.  that had me reading slaughter guidelines after you told me theres just the 4 conglomerates. 

its funny that russian hackers hit JBS right in the middle of it, just after colony pipeline.. but it only affected the USA, not mexico or brazil. meanwhile china ramped up its exporting of our pork back to themselves via their ownership in smithfield. totally random, i am certain. 


this morning i had about 15 birds out of the brooder and walking the floor even with clipped wings.  guess those extra feathers really helped. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline newoodguy78

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #302 on: September 16, 2021, 11:11:01 AM »
Mike I wonder if those feather popping birds are all the same sex? Its interesting that so many starting getting feathers after they were fed the bugs. Seems like it would take longer to have that effect but who knows. Keep up the good work 

Online mike_belben

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #303 on: September 16, 2021, 11:46:13 AM »
thanks NWG.  no clue, could be.. i havent sexed them and probably wont bother.  the head size on the bigger and now more feathered birds is quite a lot larger than the fluffy runts.  im just eyeballing things here,, i cant tell one bird from the other as they shuffle about and im not gonna get into much of a study.  too much other work to do around here.

so a memory that popped up.. 

when i was a kid i helped my bosses son in law frank, halve up his pigs a few times.  wed bring them on a tarp in his truckbed, burned clean, gutted, washed and sawed in half, to a tiny butcher shop run basically out of a house thats been long torn down and replaced with a mcmansion.  frank raised trash pigs.  lots of bread and sour milk and oj.   down here i helped do 3 pure grain confinement hogs and had some of that meat but cant remember too distinctly.  it was good for sure, especially jowls, but the details escape me anymore.   

if i can get some free pigs this year i will do a round of bread run just so i can say yup, this is how a processed food pigs tastes and have a baseline to identify differences in diets.  i have no money to be wasting so a grass and trash pig is better than no pig.  

this guy is modifying his pig herd back toward digesting heavy greens via milk fermentation and duckweek skims which is what make me look into fermenting grass so non ruminants can actually digest more of the fibers. 

  look at the red color in that meat.  he grinds his own grains in a hammermill too.  sharp, hard working guy, not just some keyboard eco savior. 


this is old news but it looks like it may be a handy resource, farm to consumer legal defense fund.  hopefully you never need assistance from them.
Breakthrough on Custom Slaughter in Tennessee - Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund


Isaiah 63:10

Offline Southside

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #304 on: September 16, 2021, 12:22:39 PM »
FTC is a good group. We are members, they have answered a few questions that have come up from time to time.
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Online mike_belben

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #305 on: September 16, 2021, 02:49:39 PM »
over half the flock has decided the new thing is fly out and poop all over so theyre jailbirds now.






toss a pile of soldier fly down while the green mash feeding frenzy is going on.  every bird that came off the slop for bsfl was feathered.  this was the only unfeathered rump i saw eat one so i marked him.






this is a fair contrast, one of my biggest and one of my smallest.  note the runt isnt interested in a bucket full of insect meal and the 16 day old who is has plummage on the way. 





after digging into "dark cutter" loss data in livestock, ive begun giving them hand hugs so that slaughter day is less stressful.  some actually like it.  one lets me rub his belly.
Isaiah 63:10

Online mike_belben

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #306 on: September 18, 2021, 11:08:37 AM »
well, sad news this morning. lost two runts in one night.

i came out to feed and there was a limp chick mashed into the bedding with its head and neck kinda dug under the corner of a feed trough.  judging by the poop on one side im sure it was sat on by the crowd which are now comprised about 80% of big birds.. probably triple the weight of the runts.  the runts have not gained at all while i went from having one or two big boys to mostly big boys and a few dang big boys.  side note for myself later when ive forgotten.. size is more consistent than maturity, some big boys have plummage and some are still fuzz.  the big boys all list eating as their favorite activity.  there are smaller birds that are more mature too.  despite all looking the same theres a lot of uniqueness hiding in there.

so anyway i fetch out what i figured was dead, its mouth was full of bedding from struggle. and it coughed back to life. i did all the stuff i could but long story short i couldnt save it and it died in my hands.  10 minutes later i look deep under the poly iso roof strip that holds the lamp up and holds some heat down for them to huddle, and theres another, on the huddle fringe that surely got the same stomp treatment. im pretty sure it was gimpy.  went through all the same stuff and he also heaved and breathed his last in my palms a half hour later.  


i have decided that i have to keep all birds in the same weight class to safely live in one brooder to prevent crushing. dual brooders is a solution for the future but not for right now. im gonna go buy a sack of 7 grain and just put my runts in it to keep them gaining.  there are positively flavor preferences in different birds that only emerge when you give them options.  some cherry pick the mash looking for corn.  some gag down greens.  some like the vinegary liquid.  a few will stay out of the mash feeding frenzy to dig thru bedding looking for that last piece of crumbles dust.  i was only putting crumbles to distract them in the morning so i could do my chores.  they mob my hand now and i need something to keep them busy so i can fish around in the brooder.  nearly every one of them can fly out and if they arent fed asap, its a carpet of darting birds to step on. 

the valiant 27 march on to a slaughter.  
Isaiah 63:10

Online mike_belben

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #307 on: September 18, 2021, 07:50:48 PM »
Ugh.. A 3rd runt today was trampled to death by the huddle when we went to town.  I bought a genuine heat lamp and red bulb to hopefully spread the huddle out.  Im gonna put in a divider right now. 


7 grain scratch was $13.xx two days ago.  It was $17 today.  The co-op bought the feed mill in town so theres no competition anymore.   The cracked corn in there is too big and hard for the chicks so im gonna sift what they get now and only give the fines.  Gonna add some to my ferment mix so itll soften and pre-digest.  These pigs are screaming to be fed every time i walk in.  
Isaiah 63:10

Online mike_belben

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #308 on: September 30, 2021, 09:59:17 AM »
Its day 30.  The birds have been outside for about 4 nights i guess.









23 of 30 remain and mortality is as follows.. This is mostly note taking for my own reference.  

1 died on day 2, gimpy leg, just died.  Nothing to do with me.

Next 3 were runts that got squished in the huddle within 1.5 days and its mostly my fault, i had too little heatlamp and too small of a focal point.  It was solved by buying a real lamp with a 250w red bulb to put on the other side and split the huddle up.  However the runts being squished is a pretty common issue with this crazy breeding where genetic stackup gives you a same aged flock with much different sizes.  The all dominant gened bird is twice the size of the all regressive gened bird and will just walk right over or perch on little guys face like a hes a stump.  Next season i will start with two brooders and a sickbay.. like a lead and a follow series so that slow gainers stay grouped by size and big growers will move up a grade to walk on birds their own size. 

The next death was the first genuine uh oh a few days later.  A runty bird not wanting to get up or eat.  I put a lot of priority on this bird and isolated him from flock abuse. One of his legs turned red like blood under the skin and others wanted to peck.  He slowly died the following day.  Maybe an injury i didnt see occur?

The last two were today, when 2 of my dogs dug a nice little hole underneath and at sunrise two adventurers decided to see whats beyond the flock.  Well.. It pays to stay in the pen.  Theres two worn out hides this morning and my whoopin hand is a little sore.  
Isaiah 63:10

Online Old Greenhorn

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #309 on: September 30, 2021, 04:58:47 PM »
Mike, I've been following along with this. Sorry to hear about poor gimpy, I was pullin' for him. My buddy Bill, down the road, who I am running a sawmill for, got about 30 chicks in the spring, obviously they have been out and about for a while now and producing in so far as I can tell. I know nothing about chickens except they are required for productive sawmilling, somehow. Also, they supply lots of eggs. I like eggs and have them about everyday. I haven't bought any eggs since maybe April. Bill won't sell me eggs, he gives them to me, about 2 dozen at a time. They have about 12 dozen on their kitchen counter right now.
 Anyway, yesterday I went up to the house for eggs and I see a bunch of fuzzy chicks running around. I asked "where did these come from?" "Well" Bill says "you see there is a chicken, and then there is a rooster and they.." 'Yeah I get that but...' "well every year there is some dang chicken that plants some eggs in the woods and sits on 'em until they hatch, I can't keep track of them all." "If they survive, they survive, if not, oh well". He keeps his birds in a coop at night (foxes and coyotes here) but they free range all day and get into mischief or come watch me at the sawmill, or get in the garden. Today when I was dropping off egg cartons for re-fill  ;D I noticed those chicks playing rugby with a cherry tomato in the garden and another full clutch of eggs hidden under the tomato plants. I guess these guys are hardy stock. Chickens are interesting critters, that's for sure.
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Offline barbender

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #310 on: September 30, 2021, 11:06:17 PM »
OG, our chicken operation is similar and on occasion a hen will show up with a dozen or so chicks in tow🤷‍♂️😊 
Too many irons in the fire

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #311 on: October 01, 2021, 09:40:35 AM »
so i am quickly learn all the feed savings in the world is wasted on one predator outbreak.  and unfortunately i own the predators.  well.. maybe its fortunate, if i can reconfigure them.  they do after all keep the predators i cant program excluded.

the struggle has been keeping the dogs from midnight adventures to go paw a hole in the dark and then just watch and wait for a meal. at daylight an adventuresome chick will go check out the new scenery and there is the dog just on the other side of the coop in ambush.  

i have kept adding wood to block the pawing and the dogs respect it during daylight for a while and then cant help themselves any more.  i checked this morning before sunrise, no disturbance.  40 minutes later, every piece of wood is pulled out and theres a gutted bird on the ground.  

so now im sitting at the table with a dead bird in view on the ground outside and the shock collar remote, we are gonna play electroshock therapy one dog at a time until the smell of chicken makes them quake in fear.

i knew daily moves was not gonna work with pity, she was wild and is way too acute of a hunter, im sure many a road chicken went down her throat. the dog has actually patterned me and the birds, she never lets herself be seen near the coop.  i guess im gonna put dunnage around the perimeter staked down with rebar now.
Isaiah 63:10

Offline Southside

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #312 on: October 01, 2021, 10:41:26 AM »
Can you run a perimeter wire around the coop hooked to the charger? Put it so the dog paw gets the shock.
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Online mike_belben

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #313 on: October 01, 2021, 11:27:42 AM »
not before they kill them all but in time yes.  

they had a good breakfast.  census is down to 19 and there is not one feather laying anywhere. we will see who craps out the most beaks. 
Isaiah 63:10

Offline barbender

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #314 on: October 01, 2021, 11:33:38 AM »
I've broke even bird dogs of chicken killing by tying the dead chicken around their neck where they can't reach it. Our birds free range right around our dogs (admittedly, the dogs we have dont have the look of real killers- 2 corgis, an aussie/heeler cross, and Walt the pug. Although Walt does have one confirmed kill😂)
Too many irons in the fire

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #315 on: October 01, 2021, 12:02:00 PM »
I've broke even bird dogs of chicken killing by tying the dead chicken around their neck where they can't reach it. Our birds free range right around our dogs (admittedly, the dogs we have dont have the look of real killers- 2 corgis, an aussie/heeler cross, and Walt the pug. Although Walt does have one confirmed kill😂)
I wonder the reasoning behind that ? Interesting 

Offline Wudman

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #316 on: October 01, 2021, 12:51:47 PM »
You can put expanded wire or cattle panels around the perimeter of your pen as well.  Lay them flat so your dog would have to dig 4 feet to get to the house.  Hinge them so they fold up out of the way to move.

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #317 on: October 01, 2021, 01:11:43 PM »
thats brilliant wud, thanks for that. 


they all got the chicken shock but i am at trust level zero again. it was going pretty well for a few days. 
Isaiah 63:10

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #318 on: October 01, 2021, 04:52:19 PM »
try the dead chicken trick.  it worked on our dogs x 3.  never lost anymore chickens and they free ranged in the yard.  a Lab, as Blue Healer, and a German Shepard.
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Offline Southside

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Re: You filthy swine!
« Reply #319 on: October 01, 2021, 08:46:12 PM »
I don't know, I think Walt was set up as the fall guy. I mean, look at the guy!  :D
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