New to me TD-8E, Logging & Homesteading

[Koot Kraftsman]

Hello everyone!

Last year I bought some mountain property in the middle of the Kootenai National Forest in extreme NW Montana. I plan to make the big move and start building my shop, home, etc. up there next spring.  I'll be doing all the work myself, using the resources from the land where I can during the build.  To assist in my journey, I originally bought a JD 450 (straight) crawler loader with winch, log arch, and forks since I was going to be logging all the timber myself and restored it. Fast forward year later I ended up buying another 450, this time a 450B crawler loader with 4-1 bucket and 93A backhoe which I am in the middle of a full restoration on.  I bought this machine because I not only got a great deal on it and I know how to work on them, I will be needing the backhoe and the 4-1 bucket.  

Fast forward another year... I ended up putting my straight 450 up for sale, I mean how many 450s does one guy need haha.  The funny thing is that a guy made me an offer I couldn't refuse... he's a local logger and needed a machine in his price range with a winch that he could also use to load logs.  His offer was either 1.) full asking price in cash or 2.) A 1974 TD-8E (fully functioning) with 6-way blade, $5K, a 3 year old ported 372xp, a 2100CD, a 200T, a new climbing rig and lastly, he'd teach me how to properly climb (I'm self taught and no doubt doing it very poorly and unsafe).  Needless to say, I took the second option and now have 3 bad ass saws, $ towards my future and a new dozer in my front yard. The 6-way blade and power/size of a TD-8E will be a tremendous help in re-establishing/repairing the roads through my land, site prep and logging.

I have pulled the skid plates, all covers and panels, pressure washed, dug out the decades of grease, oil and earth, pressure washed again and am now ready for the inspection/maintenance phase.  I have manuals on the way but until then, I am searching for info... I have found out "some" info but not a whole lot.  

Now that my machine with a winch is gone and I still need to do some logging, The first big question I have is what winches fit on a TD-8E and how can I tell if my machine is even configured to accept a winch?  I have heard the Gearmatic-19 fits but are there any other winches that fit or are a better, stronger options? Are there any log arch options or would I need to make one? Anything I need to watch out for on a gearmatic-19?  Are they good or not?

The next, and most pressing question (since I'm at that stage)... I need to change all the filters and fluids, if anyone out there has gone through this and knows where all the filters are on the machine, filter numbers and what fluids to run, that would be awesome!

Thanks!!!

 

[mike_belben]

Sounds like you really came out ahead.  Youll love a 6 way for finishing behind the drott after it roughs out.  I think i have the same machine that you kept.  4 in 1 with a pin on extendahoe and forestry cab.  Mine is a 79.  


I dont have any first hand experience with the IHs but redpowermag forum is full of die hard binder fans that will know every inch of your machine. I know they made good iron in their day.  Almost ended up with a real cheap 175 ih crawler but it was just too heavy for me to transport. 

[Koot Kraftsman]

Yeah, the 450 was a good fit for what he needed and he got the TD-8E from his Grandpap for a steal... was a machine in his possession that didn't exactly fit his needs which made it much easier for him to let it go, so it worked out great for both of us.  Because we don't live too far away from one another and we're both saws and tree  stuff in general we've actually become friends of a sort.  

You're right, the 6-way blade is SOOO much nicer for smoothing things out and, well, pushing dirt lol but the 450B will come in handy for moving dirt and hoe operations... lots of water lines, septic,  and drainage trench work to be done. Of course the 4-1 bucket or the forks will be nice for loading logs onto my sawmill. Just need to find a winch for this puppy (assuming mine can accept a winch) or I'll be dragging logs up the mountain via snatch blocks from the main road.

I have been lucky enough to acquire the truck and trailer I'll need to haul these monsters to Montana and , 2012 F550 tugging a 20' Trail King goose neck rated for 25,950 lbs.  Pretty sweet rig for your average Joe, I feel blessed for sure.

[mike_belben]

Ive done what yer gonna do.  Get the CDL now or pay 5 to 10x more in fines and out of service orders.  Its BS but thats the jist of it.  


Youll want a 10wheeler dump soon to make some money with your iron after.  

For short skids i have no issues with pulling choked logs backwards off the blade.  A 6 way can roll them around very nicely and prevent rubbing everything up. 

[Koot Kraftsman]

Regarding the CDL, I have gone back and forth with the requirement of a CDL.  I just called the state troopers in charge of enforcing commercial hauling regulations, gave them my exact setup and what I'd be hauling and they answered (very quickly I might add) that because I personally own the truck, trailer and equipment that I'm hauling and because it is all for personal use and am in no way, shape or form trying to make a money in a commercial setting, then I DO NOT require a CDL.  I even asked them about the whole exceeding 26,001 lb issue and they said none of it matters because I do not meet the criteria for needing a Commercial Drivers License, period.  They said I could buy an 18 wheeler with trailer just to haul my own personal property around and still wouldn't need a CDL.  They did say however, that I need to make sure I keep the bill of sale for all of it with me when I travel.

On a personal note, I am comfortable with hauling heavy loads and respect the load and the safety of others as well as my own.  I thank you for your concern though, I fought that battle for the last two years until I got to the bottom of it.

Thankfully I am retired and have no need to make money on the side or anything but a dump trailer would sure be nice for all the stone I will be hauling around lol.

I never pull in reverse from anything hooked up to hydraulics after blowing cylinders doing that on an old Oliver a few years back.  I always skid from the tow bar.

[mike_belben]

You made calls until you found the answer you wanted to hear.  I did the same thing.  But that person wont be there when youre seeing blues, getting impounded and facing charges.  Every state you drive through gets to take a bite at you, some are lax and some are vicious.


The lawbook can say one thing and the trooper is writing extra infractions on the ticket BECAUSE youre showing them the actual book.    Hopefully you get lucky...if not, youll get a lesson out on the road about how states prey on gray area trucks.  Medium duty is a cash register.

My day in the barrel cost $3k and i wasnt even loaded. Private truck, all legal, Juice brakes, 19k combined, empty trailer. They took it all. Hopefully you fare better.  I wish i put that $3k into the cdl first.  I got it and got paid to drive/move years later.

[Koot Kraftsman]

You made calls until you found the answer you wanted to hear.  I did the same thing.  But that person wont be there when youre seeing blues, getting impounded and facing charges.  Every state you drive through gets to take a bite at you, some are lax and some are vicious.


The lawbook can say one thing and the trooper is writing extra infractions on the ticket BECAUSE youre showing them the actual book.    Hopefully you get lucky...if not, youll get a lesson out on the road about how states prey on gray area trucks.  Medium duty is a cash register.

My day in the barrel cost $3k and i wasnt even loaded. Private truck, all legal, Juice brakes, 19k combined, empty trailer. They took it all. Hopefully you fare better.  I wish i put that $3k into the cdl first.  I got it and got paid to drive/move years later.

I hear ya brother, I do.  I have been thinking about getting my CDL "just in case"... Although I don't need side money right now I'd be an idiot to think I know exactly what the future holds and owning a rig to haul and equipment to work would be the fastest way to put money in my pocket for sure and with no CDL those options are off the table.  Did you go to school or just challenge the test?  I have no idea what's involved.  I did get the book and start studying a year or so ago.

[Southside]

Maybe your state has one of those odd distinctions between a Class A and a CDL, thus the answer you got from the Trooper.  There are some states that allow Ag operation of out of class vehicles, in certain circumstances, but you darn well better have a load of wheat on and not a piece of forestry iron.  There are also allowances for RV's that weigh over 26,001 lbs being operated on a Class C (passenger vehicle) license, but otherwise if you are driving something that weighs over 26,001 lbs you need either a Class B or a Class A if the trailer is over 10,000 lbs, even for non commercial use.  Thus the Class A, non CDL licenses that do exist.  

[tacks Y]

I have a TD8E also and it has the Gearmatic 19 on it. Much better machine than the 450 the TD8E has wet clutches and in 15-20 years no problems. Its been a good machine, I did do 1 final drive when I got it. So check oil in them and if low check bearings.

I hauled my small wheel loader through the communist state of NY. Got pulled in to a DOT ck. I had slip from dealer and a CDL but no medical, cop finally says get out of here before I find something to write you up for. He missed the lack of state insp on the trailer HA Ha

[Don P]

For those reasons I got the class A CDL, the big iron cops got no sense of humor. The local community college had a class and with their financial aid it was close to free. Having a CDL opens up a whole other lack of sympathy if you get pulled in anything tho, but it also got me out of one with a slap that would have gotten me fried, there are plenty of good, regular folks local cops.

[Corley5]

  I've got a 2001 F550 4X4 with a 17,500 GVWR.  I can't pull much of a trailer with it without being over 26,001 GCWR.  So I don't ;D

[Bruno of NH]

I'm going to try getting mushroom farm plates 

[Old Greenhorn]

I'm going to try getting mushroom farm plates

Let me know how that works out for you. ;D

[chevytaHOE5674]

I haul hay and equipment around locally for my farm on farm plates are farm exemption. Anything from over 100 miles away that won't fit on a bumper pull trailer (looks less illegal), its easier and more cost effective to pay someone to haul it that has the proper license, insurance, inspections, etc.

As for TD8 they are good old machines when taken care of. Be aware that IH has been out of the industrial equipment game forever, they were bought out by about 10 different people over the years. Many parts like seals, bearings, etc are easy to come by. But if you ever need hardparts be ready to comb thru salvage yards. 

[mike_belben]

i just realized from tacks Y mentioning wet clutches that i missed your 450 is a deere.. mine is a case 450.  theyre wonky to drive with left and right gearboxes, but no clutches to stick from sitting.  guy i drove truck for had a quarry and harvested fieldstone off lease tracts with a fleet of deere 450 crawler loaders.  they were always needing work under the seat. i swore off dry clutches.  it was by luck that i didnt accidentally buy one before i knew what i was getting into.

[mike_belben]

I hear ya brother, I do.  I have been thinking about getting my CDL "just in case"... Although I don't need side money right now I'd be an idiot to think I know exactly what the future holds and owning a rig to haul and equipment to work would be the fastest way to put money in my pocket for sure and with no CDL those options are off the table.  Did you go to school or just challenge the test?  I have no idea what's involved.  I did get the book and start studying a year or so ago.

really only pointing it out to be helpful.. my mistakes caused the whole family a lot of heartache that we still havent recooperated from 4 years later.  a class A is a very good investment.  it pays for itself in fines not endured once you start crossing state lines.  i did an 800 mile drive to court and plea bargained to keep my license and that was just a state i passed through.. the stakes are very high!


i didnt go to school.  but i did learn about school rackets after i learned about crooked DOT cop rackets.  what a debacle, looking back.  so after i got railed there was no choice but to get the CDL before i could go back to retrieve any more of my stuff.  my new state (tn) allows 3rd party testers such as schools to administer a state exam.  well they are few and far between and hard to find if they arent on the list the DMV gives you when you pass your permit. so the driving school will have these starry eyed kids trapped there 40 hours a week for a month or two and paying $3-6k for what any driver could teach you in 2 days for 50 bucks or whatever.  they are disgruntled.  the school has a big incentive to make them feel like theyre getting a deal on what is really quite easy to any farm kid who can float a gear. my 8 year old can drive a semi.  


anyways, i got suckered into $375 a pop roadtests, where i was only invited in to fail in front of the assembled full time students to prove the value of their classes.  their pretrip was a rigged knock knock secret handshake sequence of actions and statements that one of the instructors secretly showed me because we were both marines.  semper fi. so i passed that, but there was a series of other setups that caused me to point out 3x and fail.  i had been driving a big truck with a big trailer and 13 speed across the east coast for a few years by then but couldnt pass a cone test.  i didnt realize it was a scam until the state shut them down.


got lucky and found a tech school much closer to me with a testpad and an honest tester.  hundred bucks and passed easy.. we talked about cattle farming and raising kids the whole ride, it was like going for a cruise with a buddy.  


out on the road full time for a year on the east coast and southeast regional flatbed i only had to interact with a handful of cops and most were good.. one helped me cook a logbook entry to get my 10 hour OOS lifted and get on my way.. he stopped me over a headlight that legit quit working 2 hours after i checked it.  that 379 ate headlights.      in virginia i met the same trooper twice and he shoulda been shot.  just a rotten human being. like the ones in middletown new york.


when i wasnt being harrassed by a badge wielding hitler looking to line their own pocket, trucking was fine.  hundreds and hundreds of weigh stations, zero issue.  its the hard boiled cop that loves making others miserable you cant plan for.  everything good...  blues in the mirror.. everything goes bad in an instant.  the no parking tow company ransom is another surprise.  you fall asleep by accident for a few minutes parked out of the way at a walmart or side of a store lot etc, wake up to your nose on a towtruck and they say $600 cash if i put it in gear, $300 cash to let you down now.  point being, carry lots of money for the pirates. they are all over the road lurking as legit businesses.  

my out of service tow before the CDL was 15 minutes away and $990. then a plea bargain, fees to the court, 800 mile drive to court and $2100 to get the trailer back.. i broke no laws.  it started with being in a rest area asleep with a maine plate and continually escalated.  just a crooked cop racket with a kickback tow company.  theyre all across the nation, ask any professional driver.   that only covers half the issues of a long move.  breaking the truck half way from your two homes is a whole other thread!  


the biggest issue with CDL is its not really standardized nationally.  each state is allowed for political reasons to enforce little details their own way.  this makes state boarders a toll booth.  you come out of one state legal into another that has an intentional disparity.  theres the bears, revenuing off trucks at the border every single day.  same with rest area shoulder parking.  virginia has a policy of skipping the campers and hammering the trucks.  that also happened to me.  parking on the shoulder 2 spots outside the marked spot at a rest area is a 3 point offense in VA even if you are still in the rest area.  same as reckless driving or speeding.  a career wrecker.  if i was from VA i would never truck there.


if i have scared you into getting your A license i have done you a huge favor.  

[g_man]

I have a TD7G your 8E's little brother. I tried to get a winch for mine. Could find the winch but bearing/shaft and mounting plate were a problem. They are both made to use a Gearmatic 19 like you said but you also need an 8E mounting plate that bolts on the back of your dozer and has mounting for the winch and a reduction gear set. Plus you need a drive shaft bearing assembly for the 8E. You take off the round inspection cover and bolt the bearing where the cove was. There is a longish shaft that goes into the transmission and connects into the back side of the of the input shaft.

Your hydraulic filter is in the tank - back right. Remove the ring of bolts on the cap flange and it pulls out. The transmission high pressuee filter is in the battery box - rear left. And you should probably find a screen suction filter under the floor boards.

gg

[mike_belben]

If you cant find the right winch in time, look for a big hydraulic braden or tulsa winch with freewheel and rig up a high roller made from a dozer or excavator bottom roll.   You dont want a low winch and you surely dont want one that has to be powered out every time.

You run your loader valve exhaust line to the inlet side of a cylinder center single spool for the winch.  Then the outlet of that back to tank.  Just dont ever use both valves at the same time. 

[Koot Kraftsman]

Thanks for all the input and info, it's all helping out a lot as I work through the machine and Mike, I do believe I will start looking into the CDL, I still believe in my heart that I am completely legal without one but you make a lot of valid points regarding the financial cost, lost time and stress that proving such legal innocence would bring on, even if you win the case.  I have dealt with people like the ones you speak of and know they are out there, which makes me want to have  CDL simply so that I can have smooth trips back and forth between here and Montana.  The good news is that I'm not on the East Coast anymore and will NEVER return to that region of the nation, West Coast either for that matter.  The cops between here and Montana are mainly good but I know the bad ones are everywhere. 

Just got all the fluids and filters from my local ag dealer and off I go.  I will be looking closer but I haven't found this elusive suction strainer that's supposed to be under the floorboards of my right foot, do '74 models have this strainer? 

If you have an early IH TD-8E, what all fluids do YOU run?

[Dom]

The King of Obsolete has a few IH cats, and placed a tractor engine in one of them. He knows his IH crawlers very well and has info on his website. A few cats were salvaged from under water, but I can't recall of they caterpillars or IH.

The crawler should serve you well!

[treemuncher]

For your winch search, be sure to check out https://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/construction-attachment/for-sale/category/104/winch  On the main page, it's under attachments at the bottom of the page and then winches. 

For more information on your dozer, check into HeavyEquipmentForums.com  There is a category for Dozers and there are lots of helpful people on there, just like this ForestryForum site here.

I will also recommend getting your CDL and keeping it. It will cut out a lot of hassles and open plenty of opportunities in life. I agree with everything Mike said about VA and NY - two of the worst states that I've ever been through, along with MAssholes and the rest of the Northeast populated regions where too many cops & registry officials have become the Gestapo with a sadistic taste for commercial vehicles.

In TN, I was able to get my test done by a private tester rather than deal with the state employees and gamble on a Cartman with hemorrhoids just waiting to ruin my day. The day I took my test, my licensed co-driver backed out on me and I drove over alone. That would not have flown well with a state tester!

I never took any special instructions. I was self taught to drive a big truck after I purchased my first Mack with a Quadraplex tranny about 10 miles away from my shop. I read the owner's manual and went on from there to learn shifting and driving. The state issued CDL books informed me of most everything else I needed to know regarding the legal stuff. The test, other than the road test part, was showing that you knew the components of the truck and what to look for on a pre-trip inspection. You also need to understand air brakes and how they work. It was pretty easy. The road test was 5 miles and backing up in a large parking lot. A single axle test truck with air brakes and a small lowboy would be the easiest cheat to ace the test.

I guess the hardest part of keeping a CDL is having to take the medical certification every 2 years. But, I'm legal and I breath easier than I did when I was bootlegging it.

[Don P]

Just got all the fluids and filters from my local ag dealer and off I go.  I will be looking closer but I haven't found this elusive suction strainer that's supposed to be under the floorboards of my right foot, do '74 models have this strainer? 

I'm not sure about yours, ours was on the right sidewall under the floorboards, kind of obscured by lines over the top, about the size of a soup can, aluminum with a center bolt. Sheesh my memory sucks, its only been a few weeks but I think I removed a bracket above it for wrench access then wire brushed, removed the center bolt and dropped the canister and screen out, cleaned and reassembled.

I think Case Hi Trans is the spec but we went with cheaper ag supply trans fluid.

Thanks for the hydraulic filter heads up, I don't think we've been there yet, we did replace the one in the battery box, air, oil and fuel. We put a new alternator on but I don't think it's charging, threw in a meter for tomorrow, it looked like there were 2 alternator wiring harnesses so there might be some tracing to do.

We've just got rippers on the rear and I've already been over the edge and barely grabbing where the thought of "a winch might be nice about now" has run through my head. I'd like to see what you come up with.

[mike_belben]

I still believe in my heart that I am completely legal

Im on your team bub.  I dont think it should be a law at all but i dont make or enforce the rules.  The ones who do are on the prowl.  Sadly thats who you gotta get the license to protect yourself from.      :-\


When we gonna see pics of your new irons?

[Koot Kraftsman]

I just got back from a VA appointment but on the way back picked up 2 buckets of HyTran from a case/IH dealer.  They were only Ag, not construction but they had the fluid.  They sure think highly of their HyTran... that was stupid expensive.  

I planned on swapping out fluids anyways so this time isn't a big deal but how often is the strainer supposed to be cleaned?  If I have to drain all the fluid out every time, that could get expensive, I've never been a fan of putting old fluids back into a machine.

I'd be under the crawler right now looking for that strainer but I've got a job to mill some lumber before I can get started diggin' in on ol' Harvey.  Yup, I'm "that guy" that gives names to all of his vehicles, equipment and special tools, I'm guessing I get that from my Naval career.  I named it Harvey not because it's an International Harvester crawler but because when I went to inspect her (yeah, I know, a gal with a guys name lol) before making the trade, it was crawling with daddy long legs, so I started googling daddy long legs and it turns out, they are not only not a "spider", they are commonly called "Harvestman" so... Harvey it is.

I'll try and get some pics today and get them posted but be forewarned, she's not the prettiest girl at the dance.  She is clean though, and running/operating strong... and I'd like to keep her that way haha.

[Southside]

(yeah, I know, a gal with a guys name

Hey - so he identifies as a she, or she identifies as a he, or it identifies as a spider, as long as it pushes dirt...:D