Husqvarna 562xp West Coast or East Coast Setup?

[weimedog]

Funny what happens when you spend a day or three on a saw. Learn all kind of things. SO I was "re-engaging" with saws a bit, watched a couple of video's because that's my "TV" or movie time. Had one making a big case about long bars and related saw setups......and it was playing in my mind as I was working....does that "wisdom" from a very influential YouTuber play here? On my farm? Doing what I do? How about my customers? Do I reconfigure all my saws to a more "YouTube" spec setup and will that be more productive? Hay, I have an open mind... But ultimately empirical data rules my decisions. So JUST getting back into the woods. A PERFECT time to consider whole sale changes on saw setup OR re-learn lessons from the past that have guided me to this point in time....so this video is about that. Follow with trends defined by the more influential saw guys, or just fall back into familiar patterns...

West Coast Setup & East Coast Tree's, Is That Long Bar & Full Wrap Really Necessary? - YouTube

[HemlockKing]

If I half to cut firewood laying on the ground I will say although not necessary I enjoy a Longer bar so I don't need to bend over(back problems). 

[weimedog]

If I half to cut firewood laying on the ground I will say although not necessary I enjoy a Longer bar so I don't need to bend over(back problems).

I sell log length to a guy using a processor  And being old, when it really counts or I have a few logs, I use a tractor to lift the logs when bucking to keep the chain out of the dirt and make things more accessible to me.

[Skeans1]

I've cut a lot of ground you'd be back barring all day if you didn't have a full wrap. To the bar length a 28 or 32 on those little 562's makes a nice light little falling saw once the oem west coast dawgs are replaced.

[Real1shepherd]

Bait.

It's interesting that there's this perceived and often perpetuated 'war' going on against west coast rigged saw people and basically, everyone else.

Truth be told, we don't care how you guys rig your saws and we're not advocating that you 'west coast rig' your saws. We have told you patiently, why we cut the way we do and why our saws are rigged the way they are.

Maybe it would make more sense, Walter, to quit stirring the pot. Rig your saws however it works best for you and just be happy about it.

Kevin  

[barbender]

2 very different worlds, why would the saws be set up the same?

[Real1shepherd]

Exactly! Rig your saw the way it's comfortable and efficient for your cutting endeavors........

Kevin

[weimedog]

Exactly! Rig your saw the way it's comfortable and efficient for your cutting endeavors........

Kevin

Which was the point of the video. So I guess I don't understand the "war" comment or stir the pot reaction & mentality. A lot of smart folks have picked over a lot of options for a very long time. So embrace what works, even show it off.

[weimedog]

Put this one together back when I was doing those kit saws ( Jump in 3 minutes or so ) He has since moved on to HTSS 372's, 562's and 572's as weight is the issue more than anything now.  Everyone has a technique that fits their budget & requirements, most of the "big guys" are all mechanical. Being a farmer & small guy, this is also how I've done the same for years, only my tractor is an old beater John Deere And I'm now only using 372 builds or 562's when it isn't Hobby time.

Farmertec ms660 - Holzfforma g660 Test Saws Bucking Logs - YouTube

[Real1shepherd]

No competent saw user on any forum I know of is pushing or advocating the use of large dawgs, large cc saws and full-wrap handles for the average cutter.

On the contrary, those of us that use those and are used to it, are continually asked to defend why we do. They are merely TOOLS that we use to make our day-to-day scale. It makes absolutely no sense to advocate their use for the average cutter in smaller timber.

If the 'collectors' want to brag about long bars, full-wraps and big dawgs, so be it.....they don't have a clue about actual use day-to-day.

Kevin

[weimedog]

Guess we are on the same page then. I really like to see how others cutters evolve to do what they do, often interesting commentary. 

[HolmenTree]

1988 I had a chance to start out as a timber faller apprentice for Mac Bloedel at Sayward on northern Vancouver Island.  I even took a tour with a faller where he was working on his day off.
I quickly came to realize I have no desire to hand fall in the PNW.
Underbrush 5 feet over my head a rabbit couldn't run through (Johnny Horton, Battle of New Orleans :D)
Big timber with root flairs chest high and you could fall 10 feet into a root hole and no one would ever find you.

Nope I'm a Manitoba flat lander and this is where I decided to stay :D

[Real1shepherd]

It wasn't that bad.....but you either got into it or went on to something else. Rain was always problematic. Springboards make quick work of those large root mass trees. Without them, you're more or less like beavers gnawing on the base....lol.

By comparison, you guys that climb and top, my hat's off to you. That's something I never had any interest in.

Also, it was very cool to watch the 'orange invasion' come through the various shows. Started out MAC and the big Homies...then Squeals and then Husky devoured them all. Maybe not that way these days, but that's the way it was then.

I was a faller when the Husky 2100CD came out and time and time again I saw it replace everything else. The naysayers will tell you it was the price and happenstance, but that's rubbish. The big saw proved itself even to the old timers. We ran up to 6' bars on them....with nothing more than muffler mods and plugged governors. Walker was doing mild, woods porting on them and those saws were talked about a lot. But most of us lived day to day and sending a saw off to Walker just wasn't an option.....especially if you were trampin' around the shows like I was.

I admired the actual fallers who had homes, wives and kids.....you know, like a life away from the woods....lol. That wasn't going to happen for me until later on.  

Kevin

[HolmenTree]

Yes in my single years I stayed in alot of camps, ate good slept good as everyone had their own room. One of the  benefits of the IWA union.
When I got married and had kids with a home I drove Monday to Friday the 1 hour drive to camp in a 1981 Ford Bronco.

Yes the west coast rain turned me off too as we didn't work in the occasional Manitoba rain. But we work all winter in knee deep snow and down to -40 below.
Great production in oversize spruce with frozen limbs snapping off with the skidders.
Mid 1970's and 1980s we  started out with Jonsereds 621 80 90 630 670 910 920 then on to Stihls and Huskies. The eastern french guys liked the Huskies and Partners and a few loved the Sachs Dolmars.

Yeah the climbing and technical rigging urban tree removal gig worked out great from the transition from logging.
The trick is it's best to work for yourself , never for some other company.
One just has to buy a chipper mounted  dump trailer, stump grinder and a Muck truck powerbarrow and your in business.


 

 

 

 

 

[Real1shepherd]

We didn't have the loggin' camp thing in my experiences. I wouldn't have known how to act if someone actually fed me....lol.  It was catch a ride on a crummy with the rest of the guys @5am(or earlier), usually. Some gypos let us bring our rigs if the site was accessible. Not on union sites. I didn't like working for the big union companies after working for gypos. The pace was too slow and the guys seemed half asleep.

But then......come Friday I'd have to track down the bullbucker or whomever had the paychecks. That got to be a real hunt & peck game with a lot of outfits. You work that hard and take all those risks, they should man up and bring you your check. That's actually why I quit loggin';I wound up in CO at the end and they were cheating me on my scale and had this involved process on how I got paid. Time to move on in life I thought.

Kevin

[HolmenTree]

I had about 20 good years hand falling for a cable skidder,  cut and skid 2 man crew logging tree length softwood limbed and topped piled at the landing. My partner owned the skidder and it got paid as much as the man.

Yep even though we were union we gave er hell on piecework rate for 7-8 hours 5 days a week. My skidder operator would help me out back blading and running over limbs and making me trails in the snow along the face. Also push over chichots.

I'd be there every time to help him pull out the mainline and help choke up half the chokers.
Very rare did we have a dispute with our weekly scale on Thursday. If we did we'd get a check scale.
We got hourly rate travel time  return from camp to the cut site.

Camp life was good , in the cafeteria for breakfast at 6 am, I made my own lunch at the lunch making table. Filled our thermos with tea, lots of fruit and dessert to choose from.
Then on to the steam table fill my plate with eggs how I wanted them, bacon, sausages, hash browns, pancakes.
Get back to camp after work at 4:00 either on the company bus or in my partners truck if he didn't have to work on his skidder.
Hang the work clothes up in the drying room, then in the shower then   go for supper. Room and board $2 a day. Weekends off.
We'd take a month off in summer and a couple weeks off for Christmas,  if it was longer I'd go fall for contractors.

Then the differences become obvious,  with the contractor most times I got ripped off badly on the scale. Their camps were converted school buses or camper trailers, make your own meals and buy your own groceries.
On the union job in the 20 years we never had a fatality,  contractors had lots of guys killed.
Reason was most times they were working 7 days a week and burning themselves out.
Union job you could high ball Monday to Friday, rest up on the weekend and high ball again Monday morning.

In the end mechanical harvesting with bunchers,  processor,  grapple skidders replaced us and I took the transfer to the Lumber Division in town and graded lumber for 10 years and doing residential treework on the side and on weekends.
Then full time running my own tree service for the last 17 years.

Life is good now at 63, still got a few more years to slay trees before my wife retires.
Wouldn't be where I am if I didn't pick up that Jonsered 621 when I was a kid.

[sawguy21]

You guys are bringing back some memories. I stayed in a few well managed camps with my own room, clean bed and DanG good meals. A well run camp got and kept good people. Others not so much. I remember one where we arrived after lunch, the only thing left was mushroom soup which was good and bread rolls. Not a place I wanted to stay in, the cook was in her nightie playing cards with the night crew. These guys likely couldn't get work elsewhere.
I have never worked on the east coast, I only know what I have followed on this forum. Obviously the techniques are quite different but we have all developed what works best for us, there is no right or wrong.

[Ed]

Figured out many years ago double dogs were the best way to go on a felling saw....later I added full wrap handles, made life much safer cutting from the "opposite" side of the tree.
Not a fan of a longer bar than necessary, a 20" is fine for 90% of what l cut. I'll take a second saw with a longer bar when needed as l'm not far from my vehicle.

I need to clarify tree size plays a big role...cutting "utility poles" I just use a 16" bar and a normal saw, an 026 or 254xp. Larger trees is where l get picky about what l'm using.

Ed

[weimedog]

West coast experience seems to be big, organized, professional, and about production. I never experienced any of that, just had to bounce along and learn the hard way. I started with a Homelite XL-12 doing firewood for my dad and neighbors. Then as a teenager trying to pay for a motorcycle racing habit did work from building rock walls to tree removal. My parents would send me to my grandfathers Alabama farm as well....saw time piled up was for fence work, clearing pastures, and eventually working for a pulp wood operation with Poulan "Bow Blade" saws. Kind of left a mark. Those teen/early 20's years were dominated by girls, saws, and racing I guess with school and college as a side show. Again with the  "one way is the only way because we did it that way crowd" , wonder where those bow blades fit in Certainly were slick for bucking those sections of pulp wood.

After a stint as an engineer & world traveling went back to where more focused "saw" work happened. ( Never really stopped doing firewood ) when I built an excavation company. Clear cutting for roads and lots. Kind of a brutal operation. My excavator was sometimes more efficient than a saw....but lots of saw time during that time. And while the Husqvarna's were cool I looked back into time and renewed the interest in Homelites, 925's to be specific. And for years that was a blending of hobby and real work.

And 20 years ago that "Hobby/Work" blend continued into the farm life as we moved to where we are now and have done firewood & farm related things ever since. From logging for tax money clearing roads/trails/fence lines etc. Morphed into doing saw builds & repairs on the side for at least 10 years now. The engineer/hobby side was simply curious so I made it a point to learn about my saw customers worlds. How they operate & what works for them, why they choose what they have. Been really interesting for me.

So typical for many in my type of life is firewood production, I have to produce 7-10 full cords a year to heat the house. We heat totally by wood and have since 2006. Still have to clear fence lines, downed tree's, and roads. I have over 100 acres of woods to work in be it harvesting for firewood or logs for tax money/fun money. Cut in 12 miles of trails back in the 2002-2004 time frame, logged for extra income from 2004-2010 timeframe, cut a road 2018-2019 and will be doing another clearing for a road this next year or two. During those "spurts" of tree felling activities doing the road clearing, some will be sold for timber, some to a couple of firewood sellers, etc. A lot of saw time will be accumulated....again.

Being a "hobby" type vs. a pro, I try.....everything..... that looks interesting. From Big saws to ported saws, from antiques to the newest on the market. AND over time trends on what works best reveille themselves even to the farmers of the world The one thing that has absolutely become clear to me is there are many solutions to the various approaches and I am secure in the decisions I've made for myself. Also have realized some "experts" are clueless to my world and the advice doesn't translate from theirs to mine. Therefor humble enough to never assume what I have done is the only or most efficient way for someone else. SO my approach is to just do what I do, show it on video for the channel and folks will derive what they can.

I've ended up with a couple of tweaked by me 562/560's as the main saws.... took 8 years to settle on that. And a stock 565 as back up. 20 & 24 inch bars. Occasionally a 28. Everything else is for show or for hobby.

Question to Willard, what saw do you run most of the time when no one's paying attention? How is it set up? Not broke down into tasks like felling, topping, climbing, limbing etc., JUST raw trigger time. We all understand the "specialized" work sometimes needs a focused saws. What saw gets the most time. ( One of my tree service customers says a top handle, another his 562HTSS  that goes everywhere, even up in the bucket )

[Skeans1]

 

 

 I've always had a soft spot for these 562's they have just enough grunt they can pull a 32 if you need to my only main complaint is the factory dawgs I had a custom set built for the kind of work I'm normally doing. 

[Real1shepherd]

Before I left the west coast for CO, I noticed there was a lot of drug use going on....that would prove to be fatal in the riggin'. No thanks for any of that. You had to be fit and in the best physical shape possible...drugs don't allow for that and get people killed.

Biggest barrier in west coat loggin' for me was nepotism. I was just some 'kid'; from wherever who they thought they could cheat me on scale. If they had been my uncle, brother-in-law, cousin or whatever(which was the custom), it would have been a lot different. They weren't bright enough to realize here's a smart, hard workin' kid, let's be fair and give him a chance. Much easier just to cheat a stranger and let them move on if dissatisfied. And they would often tell me, 'You're just setting yourself up being a stranger here.'

But yeah, except on the steep stuff, fallers were replaced wholesale by harvesters. I almost got into horse loggin' in northern Idaho. There were places they wouldn't allow mechanized loggin', but would allow horse loggin' bids. I just couldn't get financed. Guy in Ashley, ID was horse loggin'....he was famous in those parts.

Kevin

[DHansen]

Great thread to read, very educational for me.  Different styles of cutting and tools to match the work.

[HolmenTree]

Question to Willard, what saw do you run most of the time when no one's paying attention? How is it set up? Not broke down into tasks like felling, topping, climbing, limbing etc., JUST raw trigger time. We all understand the "specialized" work sometimes needs a focused saws. What saw gets the most time. ( One of my tree service customers says a top handle, another his 562HTSS  that goes everywhere, even up in the bucket )

Walter, that was a great read thanks for sharing that.
I'm kind of in a reverse situation,  I was born raised on a farm of making that style of living and then on today still working with my hands.
In 5 years plans are to sell out, move south out of the wilderness and retire near a big city on a acreage close to a International airport.
Hobby wise I've now forgotten about the muscle car build, building the dream home, restoring vintage tractors and get into tractor pulling. :D
No fixing saws in the off season and dealing with removing trees and stumps for customers.

Hobbies will be performance saw builds, traveling and timbersports with fishing on the side throughout USA and Canada.

Saw use in my solo operated tree service is predominantly Stihl and Husqvarna, always will be.
My main saws are a 044Av-20" 562XP-18"  066AV-28" and T536 LiXP
with a 16".

I got sidetracked finding the near brand new 1989 044AV last year. I had  plans for the Stihl 500i which would have been my last new saw. It's no choke just prime and pull the starter rope procedure sounds like a blessing plus the excellent power to weight ratio.
But the 044 has solved my hot start issue with the 562 as I work occassionally in humid hot conditions. The 562-18"/24" now cuts the dirty sappy wood, the 044-20"/25" collectible gets the clean hardwoods.
The 066-28" lowers stumps and noodle splits oversize rounds.

The Husqvarna 536 battery saw does the occasional climbing removals but unlike alot of urban tree services who rely on climbing and bucket trucks with no confidence in felling trees, I remove most of my trees from the ground.
My handiest tool is a 8 foot tall slingshot for installing rigging and climbing ropes.
Last pics are quotes you would understand.


 

 

 

[DHansen]

Holmen Tree, you mentioned a 562xp with a hot restart issue.  I ask as I have a 576 xp that after a refuel it will restart, rev and stall.  Lean stall out.  After about five of these start rev and stall, it's fine for the whole tank.  I can live with it, but it is irritating.

[HolmenTree]

Holmen Tree, you mentioned a 562xp with a hot restart issue.  I ask as I have a 576 xp that after a refuel it will restart, rev and stall.  Lean stall out.  After about five of these start rev and stall, it's fine for the whole tank.  I can live with it, but it is irritating.

Is your 576 a AutoTune? If it is maybe time to take it in to your Husqvarna dealer and get it checked out on their software.

My 2012 562XP just floods during restart if overheated.
I have done modifications to the top cover to help with the heat sink which helped quite a bit, but I avoid using it if it's a extra warm humid day.
The 044 doesn't miss a beat, it has excellent thermal isolation. 

[DHansen]

It is auto tune.  Idles and runs great.  Good work horse of a saw.  Only issue is a hot restart after refueling.  I have to set the choke and pull once. It pops and I push the choke in.  Pull again and it fires, revs up for 3-5 seconds and died.   I have to full choke again, pull once it pops, push in choke and it fires up, revs up 3-5 seconds and stalls.  I repeat this about four times and she stays running.   If I shut it off hot and do not refuel the saw, it restarts fine.  And no need to full choke.  It's weird, I tried a new fuel pump.  It's not a huge issue, just annoying. 

[Spike60]

I can happily say that the hot start issue has more or less gone away. The newer 545/550 M2's and the 565/572 never really had it to begine with. And the 562 improvements have raised the threshold to where you aren't going to see a problem until the ambient temp gets up around 90° F.

Basing that of course on how many complaints I get from customers. Used to be plenty of them in warm weather. Those occasional complaints that I do see are always from guys working in very hot weather. So a couple days in the 90's and sure enough some saws roll in with hot start complaints. And not all auto-tune by any means either; had a 346 show up last week. At this point, I just say there's nothing I can do, it's gonna happen on 90 degree days. Had it happen to me with an old 55.

Couple lessons over the years. The fast idle position makes a big difference. Even on non-AT saws, but most important on the AT's. The full trigger "throw start" is not a good idea unless the saw is flooded. Which can happen when guys get frustrated and put the choke on.

And this advice from one of my tree servive customers who was doing a tree job in that hot weather: They had 4 saws; 2 Huskys and 2 stihls. All of them were having hot start problems. Believe it or not, the solution was to set them down in the shade instead of in the sun. Then all 4 saws started fine. Sounds too easy, doesn't it? But sometimes it's just a matter of a few degrees making all the difference. Think of the difference between parking your truck in the sun or in the shade.

[weimedog]

Must be a statistical thing as well as none of mine have shown a hot stat issue. This summer I've had a couple of 90 degree days as well with the 562 and 565. Neither showed that quirk.

[Real1shepherd]

I can happily say that the hot start issue has more or less gone away. The newer 545/550 M2's and the 565/572 never really had it to begine with. And the 562 improvements have raised the threshold to where you aren't going to see a problem until the ambient temp gets up around 90° F.

Basing that of course on how many complaints I get from customers. Used to be plenty of them in warm weather. Those occasional complaints that I do see are always from guys working in very hot weather. So a couple days in the 90's and sure enough some saws roll in with hot start complaints. And not all auto-tune by any means either; had a 346 show up last week. At this point, I just say there's nothing I can do, it's gonna happen on 90 degree days. Had it happen to me with an old 55.

Couple lessons over the years. The fast idle position makes a big difference. Even on non-AT saws, but most important on the AT's. The full trigger "throw start" is not a good idea unless the saw is flooded. Which can happen when guys get frustrated and put the choke on.

And this advice from one of my tree servive customers who was doing a tree job in that hot weather: They had 4 saws; 2 Huskys and 2 stihls. All of them were having hot start problems. Believe it or not, the solution was to set them down in the shade instead of in the sun. Then all 4 saws started fine. Sounds too easy, doesn't it? But sometimes it's just a matter of a few degrees making all the difference. Think of the difference between parking your truck in the sun or in the shade.

I mentioned this before about the old Jonsereds....on hot days loggin';if you don't park them in the shade after shutting off, you'll have the devil to pay. I see that this carries over into modern saws even today.

Kevin

[Spike60]

Must be a statistical thing as well as none of mine have shown a hot stat issue. This summer I've had a couple of 90 degree days as well with the 562 and 565. Neither showed that quirk.

Of course it is. And neither have any of mine this summer. 550M2, 562, 555, 565; and the 555 is an early model. 
We've stressed many times in the videos that folks shouldn't think in absolutes with any of this stuff. But it's common that people want to apply a characteristic, be it good or bad, to all of them. Some folks are wired to think that way, and fear that a problem that they read about will affect their saw. Some people, no matter what breaks or wears out ask, "Is this a known problem?" Replied to some guy last week that it's a "known problem" that if you put a lot of miles on your Audi, you'll have to spend $1500 on tires. I am SO ready to retire.  :D

[Tacotodd]

Bob, from my retail experience, it's IMPOSSIBLE to please everyone all of the time, THEY JUST DON'T GET IT. Like that person that I had one time that came in and asked me what an O2 sensor in the exhaust is for & she gave me a go to Hades look when I told her that it's for measuring how much O2 was in the exhaust! Boys, I DON'T miss retail! But I DO miss talking to my REALISTIC customers, because we often had conversations that didn't have anything to do with replacement auto parts. THAT'S what I miss 

[Sprinter]

As long as we are off topic, in the old days tractors had a water tank next to the gas with a petcock to allow water to drip into the manifold. Once the engine was hot enough a little water allowed you to use steam power. Don't know if it was farmer or engineer but it worked. 

[Tacotodd]

I'm thinking that it's for helping the engine to self chip the carbon off of different parts of the combustion chamber, but chainsaws don't even idle at many old gas tractor engines at full tilt. But that's information that I was told so it may or may not be correct. I just don't know. But still interesting no matter what it's for ;)

[Tacotodd]

BTW, I'd bet that someone like @mike_belben knows ;D

[mike_belben]

steam clean will keep the rings and valves unfouled. youd just have to be sure you are only running water injection under heavy load.  im gonna call it a long term maintenance item on a tractor. 

it also is used to this day on high power turbocharged gas and diesel race toys.  on a gasser you can run more spark advance and not hit detonation or melt the turbine wheel off.. its a sort of combustion coolant and flame speed retardant.  if you add methanol to the water mix there is also a power additive function.  some will spray nitrous into a turbine housing just to get enough fire for the monsterous turbo to actually get spooled up on engine thats too small.  we talking 50 60 80 + psi.  outrageous stuff. power that explodes girdled blocks and makes heads come through hoods.  restraint straps on engine parts.  


diesels can get away with more pump timing under crazy boost with water, or also added power on water meth (washer fluid) or straight meth or nitrous to spool ridiculous turbos also. 


im a decade removed from being really good at explaining race toys so forgive me if theres something in there ive fudged a little, or newer better tech out i no longer care about. 

[DHansen]

Spike and others, thank you for the information and comments.  And yes, it has been when the saw has been if full sun and running hard.  Hot soak condition.  Dumb of me, I always keep the gas can in the shade.  Makes sense to put the saw there also.  And we have been having a unusually hot summer.  I really do appreciate the great advice, thank you.

[lxskllr]

Maybe a small white cloth draped over the top would help when it's parked. It could do double duty as a sweat rag and a saw cover. Wipe off sweat, and dry it on the saw. Use 100% cotton so it doesn't melt, and watch the muffler.

[Tacotodd]

@mike_belben thank you very much for the response & detailed information. As always, it's just good to see you on the chainsaw threads because we're not blessed with your presence very often.

[Real1shepherd]

Spike and others, thank you for the information and comments.  And yes, it has been when the saw has been if full sun and running hard.  Hot soak condition.  Dumb of me, I always keep the gas can in the shade.  Makes sense to put the saw there also.  And we have been having a unusually hot summer.  I really do appreciate the great advice, thank you.

It was pretty easy to see when I was loggin';parked in the sun, unscrew the gas cap and you'd sometimes see the gas 'boiling'....park in the shade and there's were no issues. Because the saws were hard to start in the sun, I'd instinctively always checked the gas tank for fuel. Then is dawned on me that saws parked in the shade never had any hot restart issues.....lol.  

Kevin

[DHansen]

I apologise for the major thread drift. And appreciate the education.  

So do I need a full wrap handle? !

[weimedog]

Typical Day Getting Firewood.... Imagine Using A big Heavy saw here if u will.

How Much Is A Saw "Gas Tank" Of Work? Best Firewood Saw? - YouTube