I have some questions. To give a little back ground first. Been working a 25 acre lot with my 21hp Kubota tractor for a selective cut for the last few winters(land owner not in a big hurry). I have been aproached to selective cut close to 100 acre lot and with that possability, am considering a small skidder. So here are my questions:
1)Can I get something decent for $10-15K? or is this where they are work 2 days repair the next 4 machines?
2)What models should I be looking for? Been around tractors for several years, but not skidders, so I am looking for somewhat easy to work on and operate.
3)One man show with a chainsaw. Would a forewarder make more sense? or is this alot more money?
4)Do people rent out there machines? I figure the skidder would only be used during the winter months. Might make more sense to rent 3or4 months out of the year.
I figure I would be able to spend up to $15k before it makes more sense to up grade my tractor for the rest of my business.
I realize it boils down to me for what is best for me, but a little guidence would be nice.
Thanks Mainiac
I think you could find a decent older machine for that money. If I were in your shoes I think I would look around for a John Deere 440, TJ 208-230 or a TF C4-C5. There all decent smaller machines. Also depends on dealers in your area to get parts and service. Buying an older machine you have to figure in for some break downs. I feel that the John Deere's are more operator friendly but the Timberjacks and Tree Farmers are easier to work on.
I get all kinds of these logging and forestry publications every week month some just devoted to selling used equipment. There is always a good selection of used machines out there and entry level skidders. $15k can get you a fairly decent cable machine. A little more for a decent forwarder. Either will be much better than any farm tractor type arrangement. To answer is a forwarder or cable skidder is better? Well, you can do it all with a cable skidder, but with the forwarder you can deck the wood more effectively and sort it better/easier. A cable skidder is what most guys start out with because you need it to do the hills and it will work for any situation. But then a lot of them just wish they had a forwarder, I know I much prefer it working alone. I can go out and cut some timber and take the skidder right out, load up 3-4 cords on there and head back out to the landing and make real nice pretty piles any trucker would love to haul off of :) that is nice...
that kind of money can buy you a pretty good ol machine,and you will never get done with a tractor in 5 days what you can a skidder in 2 or 3
Quote from: Mark K on December 11, 2010, 11:37:14 AM
I think you could find a decent older machine for that money. If I were in your shoes I think I would look around for a John Deere 440, TJ 208-230 or a TF C4-C5. There all decent smaller machines. Also depends on dealers in your area to get parts and service. Buying an older machine you have to figure in for some break downs. I feel that the John Deere's are more operator friendly but the Timberjacks and Tree Farmers are easier to work on.
Couldn't agree more.. I have a '69 JD 440 Its small and easy to operate.. Even the reapairs arn't too complicated. (Some of the hyd Valves are tricky and need a Deere Dealer to fix them) but for the most part if you can turn a wrench they can be fixed.. A 440 can be had for anywhere from $5k-$25K. You just gotta check over the machines really good.. Everyone knows a $20K macghine could be a bigger pile of junk than a $7k machine. My dad bought his '69 440 in '95 for $5500, ready too work, with 2 spare parts skidders and misc parts, in 2004 My brother bought a '67 440 for $3000, ready to work.. deals are to be had just gota watch for them
I bought my c5 for $6000 and the only fix i have had since i have had it was the starter solenoid. you can get good deals on decent equip.you can find a good fowarder for your price range too. Get a treefarmer or TJ. i was a one man show with ocassional help. when i was cutting in VA, i could have a good loader and skidder and maybe even a truck for $15,000. check machinerytrader.com or your local craigslist. you are going to have breakdowns, its part of logging, whatever you decide to get check it over really good. A forwarder might work for you really good. there is an massey/iron mule 5000 on forestryequipmentsales.com also http://www.forestryequipmentsales.com/listing/5826/Massey_Iron_Mule_5000_Forwarder.html
dont jump on the first thing you find though. it took me about a year to find a machine i liked.
you will have a hard time finding a forwarder in that price range in maine, they were never very popular here.
if i were you i would take a trip up to nash equipment in colebrook and look around. he has alot of inventory and you can see what you like and dont like. even if you dont buy there you can learn alot.
also a skidder isnt the answer for everyone. a larger tractor would get you more production. one logger where i grew up had a skidder and a tractor and given his choice would use the tractor because it was easier to see off of, get on and off, the power steering was more responsive and he could pile wood higher with the bucket.
skidders are nice, but not the answer every time. and 10-15k is a big investment for somthing you plan to use 3-4 months of the year. and i dont know of any place that rents them. i think one store in bangor used to have a TJ but havent seen in thier yard for several years.
Maine372- What size tractor did he run? 4x4 or 2 wheel drive?
How about a crawler?? When I started, I had a International TD6 Then bought a Caterpillar d2 With winch. You can pick them up fairly cheep.
i love those old international dozers, my neighbor sold one of the first ones ever made about a year ago
I have three International TD6's and six Cat D2's. I think the Internationals are easier to operate and in a lot of ways the better machine. But the Cats are more available and resell for more. I am crazy about any thing with tracks. Never seem to have enough of them.
i have a deere 450c crawler with loader and backhoe with the clamp, just got a new water pump put on it this past week. i was going to buy a small one with a winch to skid with till i found my C5
Dozers are good but slow. Skidders are better but are only good for one thing - logging. The right size tractor can do the work and be used all year around for other jobs. A 4x4 tractor 50 hp or bigger with a winch can do a lot of work.
the tractor was an 80hp 4x4 newholland. with the farmi 501
i made a decent living for about a year with a 40hp deere and farmi 351
i had to get out of it because i couldnt sell the wood i was cutting, not because i couldnt skid enough to make money at it. admitedly i was working in a fairly developed area. small lots and short skids.
I wouldn't waste my time up in Colebrook, NH as advised, you're just going to see prices that will scare you into thinking a skidder isn't a good idea. Check the internet sites for equipment, you'll see the prices of the place in NH vs. everywhere else and see what I'm talking about.
You say right now that your skidder may only be used 3-4 months out of the year, but you also didn't shut the door on the possibility that you might use it more than that. You might really like it and choose to use it more, or other opportunities for more woodlots might arise. Your price range isn't crippling and you can get a lot of machine for that price.
I'd look for private sales. Uncle Henry's here in Maine, equipment websites, etc. Talk to some loggers in your area, they'll know who has what, what they're looking to sell, and how much they want to get. Listen hard enough and you'll pick up some tips and some inside scoop about how that machine was cared for (or not).
We had tractors here of all sizes on the farm. We had 400 acres of woods, but we always went to the woods with the skidder. A tractor would be sitting on the yard to load the straight truck or we hired a self loader truck if trucking was a ways to go. We cut firewood, and logs and cedar and sometimes aspen pulp. We never pulped hardwood tops or upper logs, as that was always firewood. Seems that dad was always cutting firewood for all these buildings and houses to keep heated. :D
I absolutely agree with Skiddah. Nash Equipment skidders are way overpriced and from what I have seen, I wouldn't give them $10,000.00 for the best three skidders they have. I have purchased a few things from Nash over the years, but never anything with a motor in it.
i didnt say it was a good place to buy, i said it was a good place to learn. for somone who doesnt know anything they can see whats availible.
Mainiac,
There are tons of great working skidders for sale here in NB for that price. Tractors may be a more versatile machine for projects other than skidding wood but skidders are much more efficient for bringing wood to the landing. Although I haven't owned a forwarder I can't see how they would be better to work with than a line skidder except during the muddy season(s)
I have decided to keep my eyes open for either a larger 45+HP 4x4 tractor or a skidder. Right now, there does not appear to be much iron for sale here in Maine. I am just starting my search though.
I appreciate all the input from everyone.
Mainiac
I use a 40hp NH 4WD kinda in the woods in the winter time on my land.When snow gets deep it struggles to go through the snow.Does fine until I start to plow alot of snow with the front axle.When snow gets deep I have to stay in one area and than use add on to the cable to stay in the woods.This is only for firewood too.Not trying to steer you away from a tractor,but this is what I do every winter. I myself like a tractor better,because I can do more with it on my land. But I'm not trying to make money with it year around. That 80hp tractor probably has more ground clearance and I know is heavier than my 40hp so would go through the snow better too,I would think.
Forgot to mention too,probably any tractor you buy will have 4 ply tires on it and the tires won't be loaded.There's another expense down the road.Those 4 plys won't last in the woods,couple years at the most and that's being careful with them.Should have chains too.
A couple years ago I ran my friends 70 hp kubota cutting on his farm wood lot. I must say I was impressed with what it would do. It was no skidder but you could make a living with it.. I lived in Camden for a while and remember some places being ungodly rocky and some nice and flat. People in that area probably and more interested in good quality work than a full on logging job. If you were to order a new tractor I'd get one with wheels which would fit an available forestry tire size (16.9-30) Those tires would last the life of the tractor.
Also there was a guy logging islands and had a barge and landing craft who operated out of Rockland is he still in business?
I have used a 21hp tractor in the woods before although it would power a small winch ok when it came to haulin the log out things could get tough,
I was wondering if you are cutting a tree here and there and trying to leave a small foot print if it would make sense to use the tractor and winch to get the tree to the side of the logging road and get a small porter to pick the trees up and haul out, ... or put a winch on the front of a small porter and just use that. This would keep the logs much cleaner and reduce the wear and tear on the logging trails.
thinking out loud.
Each piece of equipment in the woods requires an operator to get it there, unless one wants to do a lot of hiking back out to get the second one. :)
But then, the hike does leave small footprints. ;D
15K will get you a pretty decent Iron Mule up and running. Even if you bought one for 10K and spent 5K getting it in working order, it might not be a bad idea.
Quote from: beenthere on December 13, 2010, 01:38:49 PM
Each piece of equipment in the woods requires an operator to get it there, unless one wants to do a lot of hiking back out to get the second one. :)
But then, the hike does leave small footprints. ;D
Never thought of that, of course me being a bit on the lazy side, I was thinking to do the cutting & winching first then drive the tractor back to get the porter to pick up the logs, which got me to thinking that an "all in one" machine might be better.
I just had my taylor skidder worked on,they rebuilt both diff all 4 axle seals and bushings in the planataries,then rebuilt the 4-53,all for around 6k.I haven't seen a bill yet,will have it and the skidder middle of next week.Merry Christmas to me :(.
I use the tractor to haul the saws and gas-oil to the cut, and use to winch to bunch.sometimes cutting for 2 days,then use the skidder to move the logs to landing.I then process the trees to logs and use tractor to sort and stack.Works for me, and when I get behind I'll hire a chopper to catch up.
With the poor wood market here in Maine and the Large # of wood cutters out of business, I for One would opt for a Larger Tractor. As has been said, there's only one thing you can use a skidder for. There's a number of things you can use a tractor for.
In the summer I use my tractor to dig a few holes with the backhoe and till a few gardens, mow a few fields for extra money and too pay for maintenance. In winter (if we have any frost in the ground) I cut my own firewood and some pulp for extra $$. I'm lucky that I have my own land too do this on. Having that said, If you are cutting for someone else on their land you have to share the profit so having a piece of equipment that can move the most wood at one time is better.
David
Quote from: Maine372 on December 11, 2010, 09:08:04 PM
if i were you i would take a trip up to nash equipment in colebrook and look around. he has alot of inventory and you can see what you like and dont like. even if you dont buy there you can learn alot.
All i can say about this is watch out for Nash equipment, he buys equipment from private owners and jacks the price way up look for single owner private sellers with low hours, good deals are out there just have to be found, nash isnt the place to go trust me..
It's interesting to see how many people use the farm tractors for logging I was not aware so many people did. Me I would love to have a nice 4 wheel drive tractor, a New Holland or John Deere maybe, with a nice loader that would be ideal, but I would be so busy with it around the farm and sawmill that I would not have time to take it in the woods. Not to mention I would be very worried about wrecking it.
And you guys out East that are looking for skidders or any other type of logging equipment , don't be afraid to cast your nets a little farther out. Pick up some trade papers from the lake states or down south. It is not that difficult to arrange trucking for not a lot of money sometimes. One time when I was in the market for skidders I got to looking down south, finally ended up in Alabama. A friend and I drove down to look at a nice John Deere which I ended up not buying, but he ended up buying a morbark 24" whole tree chipper from the guy. It was a real eye opener looking at the equipment places down there, this one place called Warrior equipment was amazing they had 40 acres of used machines. There had to be 20 acres of just burnt machines I never saw anything like it. Sometimes it really pays to travel, for a used or even new machine purchase.
Warrior was Clark dealer for a while and I called on them as service rep. There is so much pulp wood logging in the south that there are a lot of smaller older machines there. When you have a lot of choices prices tend to be a little lower, also machines haven't been exposed to 20 and 30 below zero weather which is hard on equipment.
Quote from: northwoods1 on December 11, 2010, 01:26:45 PM
I can go out and cut some timber and take the skidder right out, load up 3-4 cords on there and head back out to the landing and make real nice pretty piles any trucker would love to haul off of :) that is nice...
UP here the only way to deck wood for a Michigan truck is with a forwarder or loader of some type because the truck drivers don't like climbing down and moving any more than they have too. And I have never seen or heard of a skidder being able to high pile wood to 15-20+ feet.
Now many of the small jobbers that pile with a skidder also hire Wisconsin sized trucks as they don't have high enough production to fill a Michigan truck in a timely fashion.
Northwoods 1, I finally bought a landini for the guard on shaft to front x and the fuel tank up on top of the engine.Just didn't trust the ones with plastic tanks on the sides.And don't let them deliever w/o forestry tires :(. 60hp is power enough but not enough on weight,mines 7k with loader and winch,grapple hanging off the buchet.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10257/39/landini_5860_with_tajfun_winch_%28Custom%29.jpg)
wow it loaded,tried 8x on the nice logs thd.
went through smyrna mills maine in aroostook county there was a 540-b grapple with winch for sale at rc logging supplys
Do yourself a favor and stay away from "Smashed" Equip. in Colebrook. Sure you could find a decent skidder there but price is 2x what it's worth.
That's par for the course if you go shopping in those places in NB. They want big money often times for worn out iron.
Quote from: timbuck2 on April 19, 2011, 10:29:09 AM
Do yourself a favor and stay away from "Smashed" Equip. in Colebrook. Sure you could find a decent skidder there but price is 2x what it's worth.
When the old man was alive, you could show up w/a paper bag full of cash and the prices would drop considerably. They paint a machine worth $5k and then put $25k on the price tag.
Maineac Theres a 72 440b JD for 10500 in the Uncle Henrys this week There a good skidder