Thinking Upgrade: LT40 Super Or LT50?

[SawyerTed]

I am considering selling my mill and upgrading.  I can deal with the lead times on the new mills and am thinking the return on the used mill will ease the cost increases in a new mill. I have interested buyers in line. I am not soliciting buyers here. 

I've priced the LT 40 Super Hydraulic with the 39.5 diesel and I've priced the LT50 gas with 38 hp gas.  The price for the diesel 40 is more than the gas 50.  I'm leaning toward the LT 50 for the other features like the chain turner and hydraulic back stops. 

I don't feel comfortable with the price of the 50 diesel at north of $60k.  Afford isn't the problem but tying up my money here is.

I know the torque of the diesel is preferred but am I handicapping the LT 50 with the gas motor?

Will the diesel LT40 out perform the LT50 with gas?

[barbender]

Personally I can't see paying the money for a premium mill without the premium engine to match.

[Southside]

I went through that same exercise, and you saw where I ended up. 

If this mill may, in some way, be utilized with your other business then speed, operator comfort, and capacity can be considered. 

Of the two options you listed, I would go with the diesel 50. The backstops and chain turner will make a significant difference in throughput. 

[stavebuyer]

Diesel 50 with a roll your own stand-alone hydro pack and feed it with a live deck. 

[WV Sawmiller]

  He did not list the diesel 50 as an option. He asked Super 40 Diesel or LT50 gas.

[btulloh]

 He did not list the diesel 50 as an option. He asked Super 40 Diesel or LT50 gas.

True, but it's easy and fun for the rest of us to spend his money.  lol lol

[SawyerTed]

I resemble this comment... :D

[Magicman]

I have run this option up my flagpole many times, even a couple of weeks ago when the almost exact question was asked by Crossroads. 

My choice would be an LT40 Diesel SuperHydraulic Wide @~$55K.  ;D   I realize that my blade cost would increase for the great majority of my sawing......but I could not pass up the Wide opportunity.

[SawyerTed]

Magicman you and @Bruno of NH are two of a small group I was hoping would weigh in.

@Southside, I recall asking you the same question when I was at your place. Your reply here is 100% consistent!

Thank you

[Walnut Beast]

You better get comfortable with getting the 50 with the Diesel. Or you will be wishing you would have 😂

[SawyerTed]

I'm thinking 5 days of 1,400 bf would pay the difference in the LT50 gas and LT50 diesel.  

[Walnut Beast]

That's the right idea 💡. Thinking how it's going to work to justify 👍

[Southside]

Talk with @customsawyer I can picture your upgrade serving at your other place in a similar capacity as when he had one of his 70's up the road.  

[Stephen1]

I would buy 50wide with diesel and control station. I saw mostly urban ugly logs, the chain turner and hyrdraulic backstops and add some powered toe boards , they would vastly improve the handling of logs. 
I would have a mill with great resale because of the production sawing it could do. 
The only thing missing with the 40 is the chain turner and HY Back stops. 
I don't think you will ever regret a Diesel on a any sawmill. 

[Crossroads]

I've pretty much convinced myself to get the lt50 wide on order with the diesel as soon as the snow melts and I get back to making some money. 

[Bruno of NH]

When time comes it would be hard for me to pass up an Lt50 wide command control with the 38hp gas.
I know I'm the minority with the has engine.

[customsawyer]

I've never had a mill without a diesel. I started with LT40 SHD with Kubota diesel in 2002. I would have got a LT70 at that time but it hadn't come out yet. I always try to get the max out of any piece of equipment I get. I can't say how the gas performs. I will say that I have heard some with a gas engine wish they had gone diesel. Never heard anyone with a diesel say they wish they had went with a gas. Keep in mind the more productive a mill is the more help and support equipment you need to handle the increase production. Even with all of my equipment I have I don't get the production that a LT70 can produce most of the time. I don't have enough hired help nor do I really want them. I will say that it sure is nice to have it when I want it though.

[stavebuyer]

The proper support set up will get you more production than a diesel without it. 

If you are sawing for a living; the fixed cost of a band mill is among the smallest out lays you will have.

[YellowHammer]

I guess my answer is always the same....Get as Much as You Can.  I'm on my 3rd sawmill.  Every one I bought, I thought it would be enough, including the current LT-70 Wide Super.  Then I went bigger and badder, and never regretted it.

I don't even remember how much my Super 70 Wide cost, and whatever difference it was, has long been made up in increased production and decreased wear and tear on me.

So....without doubt, I would get the LT-50 with the biggest gas engine it has, if gas is what you want, over the LT-40 Super with diesel.  No doubt about it.

The chain turner allows me to do things with a log that a monkey couldn't do with a hot banana.  I even use it for a toe roller and log clamp.  It's very useful.

I much prefer the vertical backstops to the old style rotate up backstops, and they extend quite a bit taller, anyway.

Even with the double hydro pumps of the 50, it will be fast, much faster than the LT-40 Super, simply because the chain turner is faster than the claw turner.

A diesel is a diesel.  It's got grunt....and I like to use the grunt.  

[Unclefish]

Just my experience. 
Also not sure what these new woodmizers come with for diesel engine. If it has DEF. And is anything like what we are going through in the diesel school bus industry with Cummins 6.7L. Motors are great but the emissions side is a nightmare. Also right now with the times we are in good luck getting them fixed. We have  newer under warranty vehicles sitting at dealer waiting for emission parts for more than 3months. How do you expect to make money when it's broken down at dealer.  Alot of companies are going back to gasoline motors. US included. I have an older LT40 super hyd.with the Cat/Perkins love it. But if wanted to trade me for a brand new machine with emissions style diesel engine on it. I would walk away laughing at you.

[customsawyer]

From my understanding you don't get into DEF fluid until you are over 75 hp. The smaller engines will have to regen on the exhaust side but haven't heard any complaints out of that. I will say that I like both of my 2006 models not having it.

[Bruno of NH]

Ford built the new gas 7.3 Godzila because the oil fields in the north are going back to gas . 

[Stephen1]

From my understanding you don't get into DEF fluid until you are over 75 hp. The smaller engines will have to regen on the exhaust side but haven't heard any complaints out of that. I will say that I like both of my 2006 models not having it.

When I see 2006 model, as CS has. My thoughts are WOW! Look how many years you get run  a mill for what you paid. We also are the only ones we need to keep it running with lots of help from WM Tech support. Not like my forklft, or Truck or even propane bobcat. I need specialised help to keep them going . Then you get to sell it for a fair $$$. What other piece of equipment has such a small depreciation?

[Bruno of NH]

We have had cold weather 
-30 to -35 wind chill thats harder on starting then just the cold.
Put the key in the mill , hear the fuel pump prime , hit start and off the gas engine goes .

[customsawyer]

From my understanding you don't get into DEF fluid until you are over 75 hp. The smaller engines will have to regen on the exhaust side but haven't heard any complaints out of that. I will say that I like both of my 2006 models not having it.

When I see 2006 model, as CS has. My thoughts are WOW! Look how many years you get run  a mill for what you paid. We also are the only pnes we need to keep it running with lots og help from WM Tech support. Not like my forklft, or Truck or even propane bobcat. I need specialised help to keep them going . Then you get to sell it for a fair $$$. What other piece of equipment has such a small depreciation?

Keep in mind one of them has over 15000 hours of extremely hard labor. When Sparks was still with WM he came down and saw what I was doing with that mill. Most of the time when they needed a new gadget for a LT70 tested he would send me a test piece. I finally asked him why he always sent it to me. He said "If it will hold up to what you are doing than we don't have to worry about it".  

[barbender]

Haha one of our Ponsse processor operators is known for finding engineering weak points- "it's holding up on Alan's machine" is how Ponsse determines if something is built strong enough😂 On the weekends he's a top level stock car racer...

[SawyerTed]

YellowHammer, your logic is similar to my thinking.  I want the diesel.  Can I justify it?  That's what I'm wrestling with. 

The torque question is the biggest.  The following is as best I can ascertain.  The 25hp gas I have now makes around 40 ft lb   The 38 hp gas makes around 60 ft lb.@2,400 rpm  The 35.9 diesel makes around 75ft pounds @1,800 rpm. 

I'm trying to get some feel for how much difference + 15 ft lb of torque will make in sawing production between the 38 gas and 35.9 diesel. 

Right now log and cant handling slows me down.  I feel like the biggest gains in production will come from increased hydraulic speeds and the chain log turner.

When all is running well with good help we can make an average of 275 bft per hour.  Would it be safe to say 550 bft per hour is reasonable under similar conditions using an LT 50?  

[customsawyer]

It's also a increase in quality. Since you don't lose as much blade speed your lumber comes out better.

[richhiway]

I run a fleet of over 50 trucks and heavy equipment. I have a cummins ram truck personally. At work we went back to gas engines in the pick ups and one tons. I also went to gas in a 18 inch bandit chipper. The chipper has a 350 Chevy and will outpace the 140 Cat dsl by 25%. It does like gasoline though!
The repair costs on the smaller trucks far outpaced the fuel savings.In local driving the difference between gas and dsl is less then it used to be. While over all reliable you can not compare pre emission and mechanical dsls to modern ones. They are complex and expensive to buy, maintain and repair.
If you are going to run every day all day the diesel will pay you back in fuel savings.(Don't forget to add the cost of fuel additives, anti gel and def) Fuel injected gas engines offer good power and economy. Gas engines also last longer then ever,so the there is less difference in longevity. 
And like Bruno said, gas engines start in the cold.
Also there is a shortage of DEF in the pacific rim. That will create a price increase here,if not shortages. 
(mill engines don't use it)

[richhiway]

YellowHammer, your logic is similar to my thinking.  I want the diesel.  Can I justify it?  That's what I'm wrestling with.

The torque question is the biggest.  The following is as best I can ascertain.  The 25hp gas I have now makes around 40 ft lb   The 38 hp gas makes around 60 ft lb.@2,400 rpm  The 35.9 diesel makes around 75ft pounds @1,800 rpm.

I'm trying to get some feel for how much difference + 15 ft lb of torque will make in sawing production between the 38 gas and 35.9 diesel.

Right now log and cant handling slows me down.  I feel like the biggest gains in production will come from increased hydraulic speeds and the chain log turner.

When all is running well with good help we can make an average of 275 bft per hour.  Would it be safe to say 550 bft per hour is reasonable under similar conditions using an LT 50?  

A vehicle with a transmission will take a engine near its torque peak. You would have to really bury that blade to use all the ft lbs a engine on a mill makes. I would bet 90% of the time a mill engine is at less then 60% load. If you ran at max your exhaust would be glowing red.

[Magicman]

The differences and choice between an LT40 and LT50 will be made to suit your personal use.  Not so much with the engine choice.

You need to spend your money once and without regrets later so do it wisely.  Diesel.

[OH logger]

Everytime I've bought more machine than I thought I needed I eventually forget what it costed and don't regret it EVER. Now every time I've tried skimping on machine I usually live to regret it. You'll eventually forget exactly what the machine cost but if it's not productive enough you'll be reminded of that DAILY. That just my Experience anyways. I dont have a sawmill yet but plenty of logging and firewood equip. 

[barbender]

I will say, I am leery of the tier IV diesels. I was reading a horror story on FB of an outfit running an LT70 with a Yanmar diesel. Had an engine failure, and according to them these engines aren't available right now due to supply chain issues. I told them to find a mechanical Kubota or whatever, slap it on and get running. They clam without the interface with the ECU from the original engine the rest of the co trolls on the mill won't function. I found that odd, but maybe that's how it is. To be fair, this could've happened to a gas engine too. Probably more a symptom of the complexity of equipment now, and the times we're in.

[SawyerTed]

This is becoming serious now!  The Admiral, PhD, boss and finance officer (aka my wife) has approved the upgrade. Now I'm really in the upgrade market.   8) 8)

She likes the board return, Lubemizer, chain log turner, the command control and the increased production.  I presented much reduced production numbers from the website numbers. 450 bft to 500 bft.  She actually used Yellowhammer's "less wear and tear" on me.  She watched one of the videos and asked why I didn't buy an LT50 to begin with.  😂. My mistake 4 years ago is I didn't show her the LT50!

[Bruno of NH]

Awesome 
Nice mill 

[Magicman]

You work for a very wise CEO.  8)

You didn't list the Debarker nor Wide??  Just curious.  ;D

[Walnut Beast]

Now since she approved it maybe it's time to give the 70 a serious look 😂. She might not be as understanding on that one 😂

[SawyerTed]

The debarker is an absolute and the wide is easily put in. She just didn't comment on them.  

The 70 would be a cosmic shift in the alignment of the universe!  I showed her a video of the 70 just so I didn't make the same mistake as I did with the 35.   I quote her verbatim "You don't need that!" :D :D :D  She didn't "see" the difference between the 50 and the 70.  Hard to justify the additional $20k. 

[Old Greenhorn]

Now since she approved it maybe it's time to give the 70 a serious look 😂. She might not be as understanding on that one 😂

HAHAHAHA! I was just thinking EXACTLY the same thing. Really you won't regret the 50 after the first few hours of learning curve. You are younger, smarter, and faster than me and I am sure, in fact certain, that you will be screaming along with this mill in no time and wondering why you debated so hard.
 I am slow and old, but on the 50 I have brief moments of brilliance where logs flip and turn, and cuts run at lightening speeds (on good days when the stars align and I have had my geritol  ;D). You will make that thing sing, no doubt.
 Best of luck, your CEO is a very sharp business-person.

[Old Greenhorn]

I should add: I would pay 5 bucks for a photo of the schlitz eating grin on your face as you are flying down those logs once it gets delivered and you get past the 'new mill' hesitation. So once that happens, if you come back here and see this, and I am still live, the offer stands good. Tell the CEO so she can make a note. :D

[stavebuyer]

I didn't realize the only diesel option now for the LT50 is the 36hp Yanmar. When I bought my 70s they had a 49HP Yanmar as the diesel option for the LT50 and the 55HP on the 70.

Knowing the world changed that much I would buy the Kohler and put the 8k towards a log deck and hydraulic power pack.

[Bruno of NH]

I didn't realize the only diesel option now for the LT50 is the 36hp Yanmar. When I bought my 70s they had a 49HP Yanmar as the diesel option for the LT50 and the 55HP on the 70.

Knowing the world changed that much I would buy the Kohler and put the 8k towards a log deck and hydraulic power pack.

I'm with you on this one
As said before I'm in the minority liking gas 

[terrifictimbersllc]

When I was deciding what to upgrade to from 2001 40 super 42hp Kubota in 2019 i didn't feel great about getting a 35hp diesel non turbo and the only larger option was the 55hp on the 70. That swayed my decision to get my present mill.

P.s. Should add that in that decision I had already decided the new mill would be a wide one.

[KenMac]

I'm trying to understand why Wood Mizer limits engine availability on the 50. Seems to me they would sell more mills with more available upgrades. Anyone have any insight on this?

[terrifictimbersllc]

I thought it was compliance with some rule about capabilities of 50 vs 70s.

[samandothers]

This is becoming serious now!  The Admiral, PhD, boss and finance officer (aka my wife) has approved the upgrade. Now I'm really in the upgrade market.   8) 8)

You might need to get the 'Admiral' a new rod and reel!

Oh, and continue to bait the hook!

[Bruno of NH]

I can't see @ Peter Drouin upgrading to get a diesel mill with less hp than the one he has. 
Other mill manufactures can use bigger diesel engines 
Why not WM ?
I hope they come out with a 48hp gas .

[newoodguy78]

Bruno I still remember Peter sawing up to your place. I don't think less hp is a term he understands  :D he can definitely make his mill sing. 

How much gas are you putting through your mill in a day when running hard?

[Bruno of NH]

2.5 to 3.5 gal  most days 

[Southside]

Given what you saw for logs, if one of those engine options would work well with a 1.5" band over the other than I would give that serious consideration.  The difference in quality and performance between a 1.25" and a 1.5" is significant.  Having said that the 50 still has 19" wheels, so a 0.055 band isn't going to be happy there.  

Like I said, I went through this exercise and diverted along the way.  

[Walnut Beast]

The 70 is extra money but you get it all with that unit. Does anybody know if you put the deposit down on the mill if the price drops from when you do it till you get it if they honor the sale price if it drops?

[longtime lurker]

Just an observation and obviously I don't know the ins and outs of the various machines, but somewhere in there somebody said save the 8k price difference between petrol and diesel and put it into decks and power pack and that made a degree of sense. Time spent handling logs is time with saw not in wood.

With lead times what they are today could you install the decks etc around your existing mill and get the production boost there now while waiting for the new mill? If five days of 1400 BF will cover it, and you currently get around 250 an hour...  you don't need a lot of production increase for those decks to have paid themselves off before the new mill ever gets there.

Just thinking sideways...

[ladylake]

2.5 to 3.5 gal  most days

Thats really good, running hard my old 27hp Kohler would use 1 gph and my brothers 38 hp Kohler would use  1 1/4 gph.  My 30 hp diesel uses 1/2 gph and has the same power as the 38 hp Kohler.  Steve

[YellowHammer]

I had the 35 hp Yanmar in my LT40 I think and it was a very nice engine.  Zero problems, very good on fuel, a tank a day.  

I ran .055 DH blades on my LT40 because the .045 couldn't hold up to feed speed.  Much flatter cuts than the .045.  Don't pay for the power if you don't use it.  However, I bet with the Silvertips, the breakage rate would go way down. 
  

 

[SawyerTed]

I've been mulling over the comments here.  So many ideas with merit.  I suppose I need another day or two before I pull the trigger on the new mill. 

I do appreciate the insights and value the expertise willingly shared. 

Now it is back to the websites to study options. Baker, TimberKing and Cooks aren't out of the question but the LT50 seems like the "most likely to succeed" candidate. 

[terrifictimbersllc]

I don't have anything to support this quantitative wise but it's my feeling that going from .045 to .055 thick blades and possibly going from 1 1/4 to 1 1/2, to a lesser degree, consume some of the extra power that I gained by going from 42 to 55 hp (2001 Kubota to 2019 Yanmar). It takes more power to pull the thicker blade through the wood. It's not like I can saw twice as fast with the 55 Yanmar than I could saw with the 42 Kubota. 

[Magicman]

When my original 40hp turbo Lombardini engine started knocking I replaced it with the only option available from Wood-Mizer which was the non-turbo "38" hp Lombardini. 

When the blade hit the first log I immediately knew/felt the difference.  Yes the 38 would saw but I had to reduce my sawing speed. 

Enter an opportunity to buy a "new, still in the crate" 40hp turbo engine exactly like my original.  I had my shop to service the 38 for storage and it now sits in the crate with 1400 hours on it.

Again I immediately knew/felt the difference between a non-turbo and a turbo engine which now has 1100 hours on it.  Yes I have a spare non-turbo engine and hopefully I will never need it.

Sorry Ted, I ain't helping but Dennis made a good point illustrating his reason for opting for the 70.

[SawyerTed]

 Magicman, the LT70 just doesn't fit the business model, the payback plan of the bosses budget.  😂  

So the Doc and I are enjoying a snowy day in a little mountain cabin near the northern end of the Shenandoah Valley. We have had heart-to-heart and dollars-to-donuts conversations with a sharp pencil.

Here's where we have arrived.  The LT70 is 'too much tool" for the job.  An LT40 Super Hydraulic with 38 hp gas is too little tool.  So is the LT50 with gas.

The LT40 with 35.9 diesel and the LT50 diesel are the final choices. The chain turner is the difference maker. 

Cost of the LT40 is $55k cost of the LT50 is $59k (before taxes).  The LT50 stays within the payback period.  The LT70 exceeds the payback period.  

Given the excellent advice here, the CEO and I are going to pull the trigger on the LT50 Diesel this week. Oh, and for the difference. we will be getting the wide version. 

[Crossroads]

I have a feeling you'll not be sorry, congratulations!

[Walnut Beast]

Good Choice 💪👍

[Percy]

Magicman, the LT70 just doesn't fit the business model, the payback plan of the bosses budget.  😂  

So the Doc and I are enjoying a snowy day in a little mountain cabin near the northern end of the Shenandoah Valley. We have had heart-to-heart and dollars-to-donuts conversations with a sharp pencil.

Here's where we have arrived.  The LT70 is 'too much tool" for the job.  An LT40 Super Hydraulic with 38 hp gas is too little tool.  So is the LT50 with gas.

The LT40 with 35.9 diesel and the LT50 diesel are the final choices. The chain turner is the difference maker.

Cost of the LT40 is $55k cost of the LT50 is $59k (before taxes).  The LT50 stays within the payback period.  The LT70 exceeds the payback period.  

Given the excellent advice here, the CEO and I are going to pull the trigger on the LT50 Diesel this week. Oh, and for the difference. we will be getting the wide version.

I like your method of deciding.....Went through it many years ago upgrading from an LT40 to a LT70(2003). At approximately the same time, a friend bought a super LT40 with same motor as my 70 and its cutting feed rate was just as fast as my 70....till log turning time and dragback time. The 70's beefy dragback  has never failed me in 18 years but my buddies died about 6 months into the program..Someone on this board upgraded their dragback to a "70" style. Other than losing a couple three inches on the throat size, it appeared to be a great mod. Something to ponder.....

[Magicman]

I am with you and in agreement (for what that is worth).  Our choices would only be slightly different but for almost the same reason.  Justifiable payback  $$   ;) 

[Bruno of NH]

I'm happy for you 
You made a wise choice 
Bruno gas man of NH   :D

[Dave Shepard]

What is your limit, if you have one, for sawing in the cold? I won't be out there if it's less than 20, and that's only if I absolutely have to run the mill. Probably less of a worry in the less glaciated parts of the country. My 51 Perkapiller will start, with it's usual quirks, at that temp no problem.

[Stephen1]

Great choice. It will be interesting too hear what the wait time is? Walk along or comand station?

[Bruno of NH]

It's -5 f no wind
Any wind chill added to that I'm done.
This last Friday afternoon was past my max but stayed sawing till quitting time.
I try listening to music and singing to get the cold off my mind.
But I'm aware of the cold breaking equipment. 
Sometimes a dumb choice about making a little money can cost you lots of money when something breaks.

[Peter Drouin]

I love my 40 supper with the 51 cat. If it't 15° and going up, I'm cutting logs.
Yesterday I was working on the Hot Rod shop putting up board and batting. At -4°, the 1x2 batting was splitting when I nailed it on. Had to stop with the batting. ;D
One thing about cutting frozen logs, They will dull the blades fast. 
I was thinking when the Hot Rod shop is done. I will close the sawmill at the new year and open on April 1
Then I will have time to work on the Hot Rod. ;D
Good luck sawyer Ted.

[SawyerTed]

Command control is what I'm thinking right now.  It's that wear and tear thing.  Emily said I wouldn't be getting a sawdust shower with command control and I wouldn't have to walk around the dang tire. 

We don't get many days below 30°.  I don't have a minimum sawing temperature but do avoid cold with wind or precipitation. 

[Stephen1]

Command control is what I'm thinking right now.  It's that wear and tear thing.  Emily said I wouldn't be getting a sawdust shower with command control and I wouldn't have to walk around the dang tire.

We don't get many days below 30°.  I don't have a minimum sawing temperature but do avoid cold with wind or precipitation.

The sawdust shower is my reasoning, especially from those large logs. 
We should be asking the southern boys if they stop sawing when it gets to hot? 

[Magicman]

I would still be getting the 'sawdust shower' when the wind is wrong because mine would have an Operator's Seat.  ;D


 
That picture was taken 20 years ago just a few days after I got my sawmill.  8)

[Larry]

Command control is what I'm thinking right now.  It's that wear and tear thing.  Emily said I wouldn't be getting a sawdust shower with command control and I wouldn't have to walk around the dang tire.

Probably the biggest reason for me buying my TK-2000 12 years ago was the remote operator station.  First thought was to keep me out of the sawdust and the second was I wanted dragback as I saw alone most of the time.

Things didn't quite work out quite as I had planned.  The control station does keep me out of the sawdust most of the time but when the wind is wrong it's just as bad as a walk or ride along. 

With the dragback and control station I can sticker stack as the mill is sawing the next board.  The idea is to only handle the board/slab one time.  With some 8' logs and most all 10' logs their is no wasted time.  I'm stacking and the mill is milling.  The engine size and speed of sawing is well matched to me doing it this way.

An unexpected benefit of the control station and dragback is when I do have help.  No big increase in production, but the helper can do the job with far less physical effort.  Means a lot on those hot summer days.  I also think handling a board or slab at waist level that has been dragged back is safer than pulling one off the log. 
 

[KenMac]

Command control is what I'm thinking right now.  It's that wear and tear thing.  Emily said I wouldn't be getting a sawdust shower with command control and I wouldn't have to walk around the dang tire.

Probably the biggest reason for me buying my TK-2000 12 years ago was the remote operator station.  First thought was to keep me out of the sawdust and the second was I wanted dragback as I saw alone most of the time.

Things didn't quite work out quite as I had planned.  The control station does keep me out of the sawdust most of the time but when the wind is wrong it's just as bad as a walk or ride along.  

With the dragback and control station I can sticker stack as the mill is sawing the next board.  The idea is to only handle the board/slab one time.  With some 8' logs and most all 10' logs their is no wasted time.  I'm stacking and the mill is milling.  The engine size and speed of sawing is well matched to me doing it this way.

An unexpected benefit of the control station and dragback is when I do have help.  No big increase in production, but the helper can do the job with far less physical effort.  Means a lot on those hot summer days.  I also think handling a board or slab at waist level that has been dragged back is safer than pulling one off the log.  

I agree totally with this reasoning. My Cook's is similar and very helpful when alone or with help.

[YellowHammer]

People know my thoughts on it....I wouldn't own a mill without a command console, a dragback, dragback arms, fingers and shoes. Plus a simple gravity roller table and a forklift.   

As a single unified working system, it allows me, with an artificial hip and a bad knee, the ability to saw (most) every day, stack, and sticker by myself with an absolute minimum of movement.  

Having cruise control is a plus, also, but I can saw multiple boards at once, such as when quartersawing or vertical grain sawing, without having to stop, and can drag back a whole stack at one time, and land them in the table or pallet, no hands.  A command and control station is a sure way to Take Steps to Save Steps.  

Or in the case of my latest Yellowhammerism which I absentmindedly tongue in cheek mentioned in one of my videos and a couple customers have since commented on "Sawing is fun for the first couple hundred boards of the day, and then it just becomes work."  

I like to walk my dog, but not my sawmill.  

 

[Crossroads]

When I get my shed built yellowhammer, I plan to set up similar to you. 

[barbender]

If I ever upgrade my LT40 Super, it would be to get Command Control. 

Ted, sounds like you have an excellent CEO. Bonus?😊

[longtime lurker]

It's -5 f no wind
Any wind chill added to that I'm done.
This last Friday afternoon was past my max but stayed sawing till quitting time.
I try listening to music and singing to get the cold off my mind.
But I'm aware of the cold breaking equipment.
Sometimes a dumb choice about making a little money can cost you lots of money when something breaks.

96° feels like 110° here today. Didn't break a sweat until a little after 7 am which was positively balmy after the last few weeks which were stupid hot... saw a "feels like 119°" at one point and stayed away from the weatherman the rest of the week lest it scare me. :D
Won't break equipment in this but you will kill men real quick if you aren't careful. Dehydration/ heat stress/ cannot drink water in as fast as it's running out of ya. Hard to believe we're on the same planet huh?

[Bruno of NH]

It's -5 f no wind
Any wind chill added to that I'm done.
This last Friday afternoon was past my max but stayed sawing till quitting time.
I try listening to music and singing to get the cold off my mind.
But I'm aware of the cold breaking equipment.
Sometimes a dumb choice about making a little money can cost you lots of money when something breaks.

96° feels like 110° here today. Didn't break a sweat until a little after 7 am which was positively balmy after the last few weeks which were stupid hot... saw a "feels like 119°" at one point and stayed away from the weatherman the rest of the week lest it scare me. :D
Won't break equipment in this but you will kill men real quick if you aren't careful. Dehydration/ heat stress/ cannot drink water in as fast as it's running out of ya. Hard to believe we're on the same planet huh?

With heat like that I wouldn't 
Get anyone to work
We are just not conditioned for that kind of heat in New Hampshire. 

[Walnut Beast]

Sales is quick on the phone! Less than a minute. Had some questions here that nobody seem to know so I made a call to Woodmizer and they did have the answers. And current 15 to 16 months lead to delivery

[Crossroads]

Sales is quick on the phone! Less than a minute. Had some questions here that nobody seem to know so I made a call to Woodmizer and they did have the answers. And current 15 to 16 months lead to delivery

Did you order a new mill?

[farmfromkansas]

You mentioned Cooks in a post, wondered why you don't look at the AC36 with the 49hp diesel?  You get 26" bandwheels,  a chain turner, seems like a pretty long life mill. Yes I know you have to buy a wide mill if you want that.

[SawyerTed]

We know what we know...

What I know is Woodmizer has been very interested in my success.  I've tried to to talk to Cook's.  Good people but we don't talk the same language.   

I've consider Baker but not quite the right match either

[KenMac]

We know what we know...

What I know is Woodmizer has been very interested in my success.  I've tried to to talk to Cook's.  Good people but we don't talk the same language.  

I've consider Baker but not quite the right match either

I think the problem at Cook's is they don't have enough people to handle sales and customer service properly. Blades and such are no problem but mills and equipment is a different story.

[Walnut Beast]

Sales is quick on the phone! Less than a minute. Had some questions here that nobody seem to know so I made a call to Woodmizer and they did have the answers. And current 15 to 16 months lead to delivery

Did you order a new mill?

Inquiring and checking on a 70 

[Southside]

What questions did you have? 

[Walnut Beast]

On when you place the order if during that time the price goes down or sale/ rebate if they will honor it. And they will. That 70 package with what you get is pretty tuff to beat compared with everyone else since prices have went up on the other brands

[Walnut Beast]

Don't like the Indiana sales tax. None in Missouri on sawmills 

[Southside]

The operator station / setup and computer ability is second to none. Your hands never have to leave the joysticks and it's very intuitive to operate. 

[stavebuyer]

Don't like the Indiana sales tax. None in Missouri on sawmills

I have no idea about sales tax laws and rates in your state; but KY requires you pay use tax on anything you bring across the state line. If you paid sales tax to say MO and the rate was lower you still owed KY the difference.

Some states offer exemptions for farm or business use.

Sometimes it can be cheaper to have a mill delivered as you pay the tax rate in your home state if you don't have an exemption certificate.

[Raym]

Well, for what its worth, I will offer my advice/opinion based on my experience. I ordered my super 40 with 47hp yanmar, command control and all other options in 2014. It was way more mill than I needed but the reasons were that when I needed to saw, I wanted to saw with a premium sawmill. Also if business did not work out as planned I wanted something that had resale value.

As it turned out, other aspects of my (startup) business was so successful that the sawing portion never got a chance to get off of the ground. For the almost 8 years I held onto the mill because it was so enjoyable to operate when I had the chance. Fast forward to 2022....I did sell it for 20% more than I paid for it in 2014.

So....my suggestion....get the 70 if you have the funds, forget about your best guess ROI's. you cannot predict the future. you cant go wrong with too much mill, but you can with too little....

[PoginyHill]

Don't like the Indiana sales tax. None in Missouri on sawmills

I have no idea about sales tax laws and rates in your state; but KY requires you pay use tax on anything you bring across the state line. If you paid sales tax to say MO and the rate was lower you still owed KY the difference.

Some states offer exemptions for farm or business use.

Sometimes it can be cheaper to have a mill delivered as you pay the tax rate in your home state if you don't have an exemption certificate.

Since the constitution prohibits states levying any "duties" on stuff bought from another states, states with a sales tax actually call it a sales and use tax. So you're technically not taxed for bringing it into the state, but for using it in your state. The reconciliation is done (for states with income tax) on your income tax return, but few people actually do that. Some states are cracking down as they look for more tax money.

[GAB]

Don't like the Indiana sales tax. None in Missouri on sawmills

I have no idea about sales tax laws and rates in your state; but KY requires you pay use tax on anything you bring across the state line. If you paid sales tax to say MO and the rate was lower you still owed KY the difference.

Some states offer exemptions for farm or business use.

Sometimes it can be cheaper to have a mill delivered as you pay the tax rate in your home state if you don't have an exemption certificate.

Since the constitution prohibits states levying any "duties" on stuff bought from another states, states with a sales tax actually call it a sales and use tax. So you're technically not taxed for bringing it into the state, but for using it in your state. The reconciliation is done (for states with income tax) on your income tax return, but few people actually do that. Some states are cracking down as they look for more tax money.

PoginyHill:
In my opinion you needed to add to squander at the end of your last sentence.
If I had anything to do with the state budget I can assure you there are a lot of line items that would disappear.
GAB

[SawyerTed]

The decision has been made.  8)  The LT50 Wide is on order, 35.9 Yanmar diesel, debarker, lubemizer, high performance blade guides and command control. 8)

Specific lead times were not discussed but the dealer shared that Wood-Mizer is expected to begin to shorten those lead times this year.  The lead times are less about Wood-Mizer's capacity to manufacture the mills but more about components have been in short supply (similar to the automaker's supply issues).  But suppliers are beginning to recover from some of the challenges of the Texas polar freeze last year and the pandemic.

So for the time being, I am going to continue to saw with the LT 35 and squirrel away some funds to ease the hit to the bank account.  

[Andries]

Well done Ted and Company! 
All it took was nearly 100 posts of quality advice from the FF and quality time in a small cabin in the Shenandoah Valley with your CFO-MD. 
It's a difficult decision with a ton of variables, you made it look easy! 

[SawyerTed]

It's a difficult decision with a ton of variables, you made it look easy!

I appreciate the kind words.  This thread was somewhat of a confirmation of what I was already thinking.
Don't be led to believe that the life of this thread was the window of time that this decision took.  It is a decision that I have studied pretty hard since April of 2021.  I have weighed a lot of factors since then.

[YellowHammer]

Excellent choice.

[Magicman]

Congratulations on a well thought out plan based upon your projected sawing profile.  You can go forward knowing that you did not make a hasty nor impulse decision.  :P

[Walnut Beast]

Sounds pretty sound. You really wanted the diesel and chain log turner. Nothing but smiles now 👍👍