need help keeping brush cutter blade sharp

[GJB1958]

I'm running an Echo SRM-410U 42cc brush cutter that came with a 10 inch/80 tooth blade to cut willows, alder, and associated brush (typically under two-inch diameter) in a Doug Fir reprod unit in WA.  Both that blade and a replacement 40 tooth blade both start to dull after about 30 minutes of work and are essentially useless before an hour passes.  Invariably, I end up using a handsaw instead of stopping for a half hour to resharpen blades, which seems absolutely stupid.

Can anybody give me a little insight into a simple solution that will keep my blades sharp longer, or perhaps a better blade option.  I'm wondering what magic the guys use who work with brush cutters on a daily basis.

Thanks!

[PC-Urban-Sawyer]

Ask @SampDonkey, he's the expert with that type tool.

[GRANITEstateMP]

I've had good luck sending my disc's out to a local shop, same one that doesn't my processor chains.  They come back pretty dang sharp, and hold a better edge than new.  That being said, living in NH, I tend to find a rock before dulling a blade from trees :-\

[gman98]

Well it depends what kind of blades you have.  The blades that echo provides are garbage for any series use.  I recommend going with a maxi-200 style blade or similar blade made for clearing/thinning saw work.  They can be sharpened with a 7/32nd chainsaw file.

Clearing saw blades are made from a softer steel.  That means they take a good edge, but you must sharpen them often to keep them cutting good.  And it also helps if you keep them out of the dirt and rocks.

[celliott]

+1 on the maxi style blades, you'll be WAY happier. Very easy and quick to sharpen, and cut much better as well. I'd say I can sharpen one if it isn't rocked bad, faster than touching up a 16" chain.

[John Mc]

If that 80 tooth blade you have is what I'm thinking it is, it's what Stihl refers to as a "scratcher" blade. I can't stand those things.

I like the Maxi blades that gman98 referred to. I think it was Swamp Donkey who first told me about them. You mentioned you are using a 10" blade.  I've only ever seen the Maxi blades in 8" and 9", however (though I have not done an exhaustive search for 10").

I use an 8" on my brush cutter. Here's a link to one similar to what I use:
Husqvarna Maxi 200-26T Brush Cutter Blade

You may need a different size on your saw. Mine has a smaller engine than yours.

It sharpens easily with a 7/32"round file. If you are not comfortable sharpening freehand, this type of guide (designed for use when sharpening a chainsaw) will also work on this brush blade. Just make sure you get one designed to work with a 7/32" file.
   

[GJB1958]

Thank you all.  I'll check out those Maxi blades and give one a spin.

[Skeans1]

Are you precon thinning a unit? If so why not just use a saw like all the other guys do?

[John Mc]

Are you precon thinning a unit? If so why not just use a saw like all the other guys do?

Perhaps because for the type of work he described, a brush saw / clearing saw is the better tool for the job?

[Skeans1]

Are you precon thinning a unit? If so why not just use a saw like all the other guys do?

Perhaps because for the type of work he described, a brush saw / clearing saw is the better tool for the job?

Normally it's called slashing out here we've tried both ways and normally a smaller saw is faster especially if you want the whole stem down and cut up to premote Douglas fir growth.

[John Mc]

Are you precon thinning a unit? If so why not just use a saw like all the other guys do?

Perhaps because for the type of work he described, a brush saw / clearing saw is the better tool for the job?

Normally it's called slashing out here we've tried both ways and normally a smaller saw is faster especially if you want the whole stem down and cut up to premote Douglas fir growth.

I don't know anyone doing this professionally here in the northeast that chooses to use a chainsaw for this type of work if they have a brush saw available (talking about doing a full day worth of this type of work, not just cutting the occasional stem when you already have a chainsaw in your hands). On the other hand, they are not cutting the stems up either, which might change the workflow significantly. changing back and forth from one tool to another frequently is a pain in the neck.

[GJB1958]

Thanks again for all your responses.  The last couple posts are right on track.  I'm slashing in an attempt to help the fir completely capture the site (before I get too old to deal with it later).  This wouldn't be a big deal in good soils 'cause the fir normally outgrows almost everything.  These soils are not so great, so the brush is very competitive and I find it easier to just spend a day a year on the 10 acres.  

I do use a small Stihl saw with a 16 inch bar if I'm just working in one small area, but if I'm attempting to treat more than three acres, my back and shoulders are too old to handle the weight and awkward positions necessary to cut the multi-stemmed willows and Scotch Broom that regrow (every stinkin' year!) with that saw.  The brush cutter has only been a failure because of how fast the blade dulls.  

After considering the ideas presented here, I think I'm going to first try this blade from Amazon.  I think this will do really well, and I can sharpen it quickly if I hit soils or gravel.   If that fails, I'll try the Maxi. 

Amazon.com : Forester Chainsaw Tooth 9" Brush Blade with 3/16" Round File 2 Piece Bundle : Garden & Outdoor  

[John Mc]

I hope that Forester "chainsaw"-type blade works for you. I tried one and found it a real pain in the rear end, plus it took more power to drive than the Maxi.

[GJB1958]

Thanks John Mc - I'll try to remember to post how well it worked - probably give it a try in April, just after the trees and brush leaf out.  It is Amazon's #1 seller and rates really high with users, many of which state very long cutting times before sharpening (if you keep it out of the dirt).  

[John Mc]

Thanks John Mc - I'll try to remember to post how well it worked - probably give it a try in April, just after the trees and brush leaf out.  It is Amazon's #1 seller and rates really high with users, many of which state very long cutting times before sharpening (if you keep it out of the dirt).  

Looking forward to hearing. Part of my problem with it was the greater power needed. Another is the rocky, rough terrain here. Once you hit a rock, the Forester takes more effort to resharpen.
As far as long lasting, As long as I didn't hit rocks the Forester did last longer than the Husqvarna Scarlet blades I had been using. It was hard to judge whether it lasted longer than the Maxi blade. On my saw, the Forester blade cut slower (possibly because it needed more power than my saw had?). If you measured how long it lasted in terms of hours of use, it might have had a slight edge. However, since the Maxi cut faster (probably due to the narrower kerf?) I think it probably cut more stems than the Forester did. This is just a gut feeling. I wasn't out there with a stopwatch and a tally sheet counting stems cut.
I do know the Maxi was a lot quicker to sharpen than the Forester.

We need @SwampDonkey to comment on this thread.

[SwampDonkey]

Even in a plantation type cleaning we still use Maxi blades here. In plantation we never cut up brush, it is felled on the ground and not left hung up on the planted spruce. Dual purpose to cleaning is to also space the trees and cut one or two extra of the stems off that grew in a plug. So like your natural softwood out there your also promoting them by spacing them. If I recall, western softwood is spaced wider apart than it is here so it is even easier to keep the brush off the trees. Work with the hill across the contour and not up and down. In fact when we get a work strip on a hill, we walk to the bottom on cut trails or skid trails and work back up. A lot better than lugging all that gear at the end of a day up hill 300 -500 meters to the road. :D And that brush will keep the deer out to. I would make myself work paths from your transportation area. A lot nicer than walking back to the wheeler or truck through brush. You always have a leading edge of your work that the brush falls away from. So your never wading brush when the gas runs out. Walk the edge over to the trail where the gas jug and file is (and water). Work smart and make your work strips 100 feet apart where a trail defines the perimeter. ;D Cutting up brush out in the woods is wasted effort. It's different than up around the house where you want park appeal. Let the worms, weather and fungus eat it. :D
Yup, use a maxi blade and a file guide. Here in the Maritimes, if you had one of them chainsaw type blades and arrived on a work sight, everyone would look at ya funny. 'What are ya going to do with that?' ;) Your silviculture gurus out there make you work twice as hard than you need to be. ;) Here in the Maritimes, as tiny as we are by land area, we've used clearing saws on a pile of ground in 30 years. We are still pre-commercial thinning while most other regions hardly do anything. ;D And they have even tried mechanical means, which of course failed from the start.

[Skeans1]

 

 

 
At least from what I've been told they're shooting for 350 to an acre with Doug fir being the main, then Hemlock/spruce,  then alder. This stand is roughly 15 years old.
What kind of spacing are you guys running out there ?Swamp Donkey?

[John Mc]

Cutting up brush out in the woods is wasted effort. It's different than up around the house where you want park appeal. Let the worms, weather and fungus eat it

I agree, at least in my area. However, our woods seem to be made of asbestos: they rarely burn, and when a field fire burns up to the edge of them, it usually burns out a couple of yards into the forest. As SD mentioned, the brush does help keep the deer from getting in and browsing all the regen. A good brush pile (if you choose to take the time to make one) also makes great habitat for other animals.

I wonder if lopping brush down to get it on the ground (where it will rot faster) is more of a concern where forest fires are more of an issue?

[Skeans1]

We rarely see fire out here in NW Oregon and SW Washington or at least where I am, I was always told and have see where something leaning into a fir cause a dog leg or a scar. I wonder if some of the reason for the saws still here is the old growth stumps and steep ground.

[SwampDonkey]

At least from what I’ve been told they’re shooting for 350 to an acre with Doug fir being the main, then Hemlock/spruce,  then alder. This stand is roughly 15 years old.
What kind of spacing are you guys running out there ?Swamp Donkey?

1000 - 1500 per acre on public land and around 800-1000  on mill ground and private. Truth be told, because of the age of the trees we are presented with, it is closer to 800 across the board but tighter where the trees are actually ones that fit criteria and not over 9 meters all. I mean we are in some 25-40 year old trees that were left behind as advanced undergrowth. A lot of it junk fir that is rotten in the middle. It was funny, last fall I think I was thinning from below a lot of the time, with overstory trees 50 years old or more and nothing to hold all that precious. :D :D  Little, younger stuff was in the skid trails that was proper thinning size. But someone forgot to read the manual where it states no thinning from below or umbrella shaped suppressed fir. Fine, I don't mind, but what is growing way up there 40+ ft in the canopy ain't going to improve none. And that kind of cutting is just as slow sometimes as thick young stuff with all the tugging and chopping up to get down. :D I can tell ya, there isn't any young blood lasting all season cutting it. Had a couple young fella's three years ago show up, they was done before the season ended. Should have seen their saw blades, just a little sliver of iron left on the teeth, couldn't imagine cutting much, and they didn't.   :D :D Wasn't long before they would only cut a couple of tanks off and head home. Never showed early either. :D

On the BC north coast islands they did thinning different than we do here, they was also pruning up the trees. Now I could see if that paid more at the mill, but up here your getting nothing more for a clear log than you do for a plantation one with knots. So we ain't doing that here, it don't bring extra dollars at the mill so why work for nothing? :D :D

Also at their spacing out there, our fir and spruce would resprout new limbs anyway. But I do think it was only hemlock they pruned, since it was 80% of the regen where I was.

[GJB1958]

Interesting stuff.  I checked with a local company a couple years ago about slashing a 60 acre lot I was thinking about buying.  I think they wanted $650/acre to slash a six-year-old Doug Fir plantation that had heavy natural reprod Red Alder throughout.  I thought about that one too long.  Someone bought it while I was pondering.

The wife gave me a two day pass so I took my brush saw out for a run a couple days ago.  The blade worked flawlessly.  I could zip through 3 inch willows like a hot knife through butter.  The Echo motor has tons of power but it's heavy as hell and I was fighting trailing blackberries, which would get tangled up on the shaft and around the blade shield, so I only lasted 2.5 hours before my back was screaming at me.  The blade was still cutting well at that point, so it was a major improvement over the stock Echo blades.  

I'm kind of babying that unit.  I manage it for deer production as well.  The fir is mostly above browse level so I only need to keep them in full sun.  I have an elevated blind set up in there, so often my goal is just trying to keep the brush down low for use as deer food (and away from crop trees), but also high enough that it provides enough cover for deer that they don't feel exposed (while keeping it low enough that I can see them if they're up and moving).  I cut a lot of the hardwoods at chest level so the bucks have something to thrash besides crop trees.  Once the canopy starts to close, I'll have to take them out of the mix completely. 

If the soils were better and the fir grew faster, I'd be done managing it, but I'm just trying to coax it along and keep hunting it for the next four or five years if possible.  

 

[Skeans1]

How old is this stand?

[SwampDonkey]

Looks free to grow so far.

[GJB1958]

Yup.  Pretty much free to grow now.  I keep going back in to try to keep the Scotch Broom out.  Viability of those seeds is somewhere above 50 years, so if l slack off on controlling it, my kids will have to deal with a much worse problem in 2070.  I'll probably keep knocking down the unwanted hardwoods till the place gets unhuntable from the stand, do a PCT in about 8 - 10 years and the fun will be over. 

I put the stand in there last summer.  Shot a decent buck on my second sit during muzzleloader season.

[SwampDonkey]

Gotta have some kind of reward, might as well be the eat'n kind. ;D

Scots broom looks like another invasive escaped from gardens and nurseries.