Stair Design and placement

[John P.]

I am finishing the second floor of my barn project. At the moment, I cannot continue putting in the flooring until I have built or at least figured out where to put the stairs. The design is based off of an alternating tread style stair, with an angle of 60 degrees. I'm not sure where to put the staircase - would like to maximize space on both floors, hence the compact stair style. Total height to landing is 140.5".

The render below shows one possible location - right where the entry door is. The only caveat is - the head height at the landing in this location isn't ideal. I can stand up, but there's a beam which is sort of in the way. 

This is not a living space - it's a project work area, office, so will not get a lot of traffic up/down.

Originally, I was looking at spots A / B as marked on the diagram below, but I'd like to preserve the North wall for a long work area.







Any advice would be appreciated!

[Jim_Rogers]

I'm not sure if you need to meet code or not. But usually, I try to. That means you'll need at least a 3' square landing at the top of the stairs as well as at the bottom.
You'll also need to have at minimum of 6'8" head clearance at each landing and at each stair, on the way up or down.
To do that sometimes I put in a landing halfway between floors. This allows for a 90° turn in the run of the stairs. Sometimes a 180° turn in the run of the stairs.
In your case the angle is not standard, and it will be a challenge for sure.
Good luck and keep thinking about different locations and landings.

Jim Rogers

[Don P]

Can you bump out the near gable end over the garage door with a balcony and regular stairs down that land along/ beyond the downstairs walk door?

[John P.]

Regarding code: up to this point everything has been to code... the stairs may diverge from compliance mainly because to put in a complaint set would take up a huge area and I really would like to get as much square footage out of what I built as possible.

As for doing a bump-out/balcony... sigh. It was something I considered when I started the project, but at this point with siding done, windows in, I just don't have it in me. It's amazing I've gotten as much floor in as I have. Not depressed or complaining about the project, mind you, just want to see it finished so I can finally use the space for projects, and not a never-ending barn project.

[Ljohnsaw]

You say an office/project space (upstairs).  What kind of projects?  Will you need to haul stuff up and down the stairs/ship's ladder?  Another thing with code is normal stairs need to be 36" wide.  That really affected my cabin design.  What about just installing a pull-down staircase like for attic access?  Then, when not needed, the lower floor is clear.

[John P.]

You say an office/project space (upstairs).  What kind of projects?  Will you need to haul stuff up and down the stairs/ship's ladder?  Another thing with code is normal stairs need to be 36" wide.  That really affected my cabin design.  What about just installing a pull-down staircase like for attic access?  Then, when not needed, the lower floor is clear.

Small projects - electronics, sewing, watch repair, 3D printing, hobbyish sort of things, plus a desk and chair for work (I do web development, and have been working from home since COVID - been using the barn to work in during the nicer months).

The lower space will be woodworking tools and larger projects. I've debated putting in a hatch in the middle in the event I need to bring up something large - haven't ruled that out yet.

And attic ladders - I've looked at those. Trouble is... I know myself. It would never get folded up so why bother?

Windows on either side allow for emergence egress (with the help of a metal chain emergency ladder), so I'm not as concerned about exiting the second floor in an emergency.

Price-wise, just looking at dimensional lumber... for #1 SYP 2x material, if I made the stringer with a 2x10 and treads the same, I'd be looking at around $300 in materials... ideally would keep the project under $500. The more money I save, the less I care to get it right the first time around, though the hole cannot be relocated as easily.

Generally, my plan is to make pockets for the stringers, use screws+glue to hold it together, and (maybe) replace the screws with wooden dowels when the glue dries.

[SwampDonkey]

An alternating tread would scramble my brains going up and down. If you slip off a tread, your foot is going to drop twice as far. Think about it, if you are carrying items.
Your stair treads being inside will not be as secure as notched into the stringers. Best hope the glue lam does not break free because the screws may sheer.
;)

[Ljohnsaw]

And attic ladders - I've looked at those. Trouble is... I know myself. It would never get folded up so why bother?

Not saying you would fold it up all the time.  Just that you have the option to close it up if you need the uninterrupted floor space downstairs or if you are creating a lot of dust (woodworking) and don't want it migrating upstairs.  That, alone, would convince me!

[firefighter ontheside]

What is ceiling height on first floor.  What about stairs with a landing at a height that still allows head room as you make the turn.  On first floor stairs along outside wall, then stairs from landing to second floor come up into second floor where there is more head room.  I don't like the alternating treads either.  Seems like a good opportunity to break an ankle.  

[Ljohnsaw]

What is ceiling height on first floor. What about stairs with a landing at a height that still allows head room as you make the turn. On first floor stairs along outside wall, then stairs from landing to second floor come up into second floor where there is more head room

It would have to be a 180° turn on the landing because of the way the floor joists run.  It would still be less than 3' width when coming up through the second floor floorboards.  But that would be the most "standard" solution.

[firefighter ontheside]

That's what I was thinking was a 180 deg turn.  

[John P.]

I'll draw something up and see how the 180 turn works.

Height from concrete to second floor top surface - 140.5"... the 6x8's stick down 7.5" which gives me 133" of true headroom from the floor.

As for construction, I would route 1/4" pockets into the stringer, and use screws to hold the treads to the stringers - glue would not be necessary but would hopefully stiffen the structure and reduce squeaks.

[firefighter ontheside]

So then you could decide how much headroom you need on the landing and subtract that from 133".  That would give you the height of the landing.

[Tom King]

I had a situation where I needed to fit a staircase in a tight space in 1980.  In one of my old books, there was a how-to about building "Dancing Stairs".

I don't remember all the details, but they walked fine.  Much better than a ships ladder type, or typical spiral.

I couldn't find much on the internet, but did find this:

"Dancing" Staircase - Fine Homebuilding

They mention the book in that link.  In the book I have, it didn't call that line the springing line, but the "line of going".