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Author Topic: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53  (Read 2041 times)

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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2022, 08:45:15 AM »
It will take a slightly but noticeably longer time to heat up the big turkey, but in reality, the length of time to cook the turkey will be based on whether it's thawed or still frozen, or how wet the wood is when you put it in.

If you use several thousand pounds of top weights, and do hot kiln swaps, then the heat up time is much faster because the mass of the weight will heat up the kiln much faster than the electric strips themselves.  Thermal ballast.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it wonít roll, its not a log; itís still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, theyíre burned, and you canít fix them.  So donít burn the cookies.

Sawing is fun for the first couple hundred boards.

Offline K-Guy

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2022, 08:48:55 AM »
Robert is correct(I hate saying that. ;D) but another factor is if the slab is insulated or not. Insulated containers also do not have insulated floors and that can make a difference.
Nyle Service Dept.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Offline doc henderson

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2022, 10:20:43 AM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_thermal_unit

more water takes more heat to increase the temp.  so, more wood takes more heat, or same heat for more wood takes longer.  I think to compare the container vs the slab, you need to know more about the two in terms of insulation.  for things "mostly water" the btu definition helps.  more water takes more heat.  with thermal mass such as weight and concrete, there is energy to load it with heat that delays the temp rise in the kiln, and a prolonged cooling off (loss of heat) after it is turned off.  so, I like that many (Jake and Robert) try to quickly change out the kiln without letting things cool off.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Offline Larry

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2022, 11:35:56 AM »
When I built my kiln I put 1-1/2" of foam down before pouring the slab.  I also wrapped the edges of the slab with the same stuff.

Seemed like it was taking far too long to heat up especially in cold weather.  I bought the cheap Harbor Freight laser temperature gun.  Brought the kiln up to operating temperature for a couple of days.  Checked temperature of all the walls and ceiling.  They were all within a few degrees of each other.  The floor was about 10 degrees cooler.  I reasoned that the concrete was acting as a heat sink.  With this in mind I built a R-30 insulated floor on top the concrete....had extra height in the kiln to allow this.  Kiln comes up to temperature both for drying and heat treating much faster.  Walls, ceiling, and floor are now all the same temperature (within a couple degrees).  I thought this was a worth while improvement for my kiln.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2022, 12:34:22 PM »
I sprayed foam insulation on the concrete floor and it helped my kiln also. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it wonít roll, its not a log; itís still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, theyíre burned, and you canít fix them.  So donít burn the cookies.

Sawing is fun for the first couple hundred boards.

Offline doc henderson

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2022, 01:53:40 PM »
YH did you have framing to spay into on the floor then cover with sheathing?
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2022, 08:54:28 PM »
No, I sprayed it directly onto the concrete floor including the oak leaves, the bark chips, even the dead bugs.  I had a couple extra cans left over and wasn't expecting to, so didn't clean the floor.  I just sprayed everything.  I have concrete riser blocks that are about 3" tall that the runners of the pallets sit on, so nothing really ever touches the floor.  I sprayed the floor between the risers and so it looks like it snowed inside.  the foam also glues the riser blocks down so locks them in place also.  One of the main reasons I wanted to use the spray foam was to completely and permanently seal up all the cracks on every joint, including the floor to ceiling, as well as all the other possible leaks.

As easy as it was to do, I wish I had done it years ago.    
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it wonít roll, its not a log; itís still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, theyíre burned, and you canít fix them.  So donít burn the cookies.

Sawing is fun for the first couple hundred boards.

Offline customsawyer

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2022, 03:48:21 AM »
I dry a good bit of pine. I don't have to air dry it before I put it in the kiln but it sure helps. The dryer it is going in allows me to get the temp up quicker or to put more wood in each load. I've broken so many of the Nyle rules that it isn't even funny. Keep in mind that pine is about as easy to dry as it gets.
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head planer, 30" double surface planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2022, 08:36:18 AM »
Rules are meant to be broken, because rules are usually just suggestions anyway. :D :D  
And @customsawyer Jake ain't one for coloring in the lines anyway!  Me either...so I said, "the heck with it" and sprayed the floor with foam before I could back out and say "This is crazy."  Lots of stink bugs are now entombed in the foam.   :D :D
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it wonít roll, its not a log; itís still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, theyíre burned, and you canít fix them.  So donít burn the cookies.

Sawing is fun for the first couple hundred boards.

Offline K-Guy

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2022, 08:48:44 AM »

I think Jake writes his contracts in crayon too. :D

Because that way there are no gray areas.
Nyle Service Dept.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- D. Adams

Offline customsawyer

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2022, 01:02:17 AM »
Some of them crayons don't taste bad either so I've been told from some of my Marine friends. :D
Two LT70s, Nyle L200 kiln, 4 head planer, 30" double surface planer, Lucas dedicated slabber, Slabmizer, and enough rolling stock and chainsaws to keep it all running.
www.thecustomsawyer.com

Online blackhawk

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2022, 03:36:14 PM »
I wanted to see if anyone can see any faults with my plan for the power vent.  The way it is designed, it mounts with the fan side against the interior walls, blowing to the outside.  The whole thing will end up sticking out into my kiln about 12".  Plus the louvers will be on the inside of the kiln.  My plan is to remove the louvers and mount them with the flange side against the outside wall as shown in the 2nd pic below.  Then I will flip the fan over to blow in the opposite direction.  I am also going to rotate the connection box 90 degrees on the side.  Doing this, I can push the sheet metal frame into my wall all the way up against the connection box.  This will only leave about 4 inches sticking out into the kiln this way.  The fan will be blowing towards the louvers, pushing them open instead of sucking them open.  The louvers on the outside will now keep the critters out.  (May have to add a little flashing on the top of the louver frame for rain.)



 

Lucas 7-23 with slabber.  Shopbot CNC 48x96

Offline K-Guy

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2022, 08:18:59 AM »

I doubt it will work, your unit will not have enough airflow to keep critters out. I have spoken to people that tried an idea they had many times over the years and they rarely work.
Nyle Service Dept.
A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
- D. Adams

Online blackhawk

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2022, 08:53:18 AM »
Keeping the critters out is not my main goal.  The main purpose is to reduce the depth that the powered vent protrudes inside of my kiln.  I want to mount the louvers on the outside and have the fan push the louvers open.  Then I can mount the sheet metal shroud deeper into the wall cavity.  The 2nd benefit of this is having the louvers on the outside will provide a more finished look.
Lucas 7-23 with slabber.  Shopbot CNC 48x96

Offline Larry

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2022, 10:48:47 AM »
The design is a bit on the clunky side and like you I had the same thoughts.  After more thinking I didn't want to bury the electric connection box in the wall and the projection of the unit in the chamber is not a problem as it is unusable space.  My vent is on the same wall as the compressor.

I ended up mounting as Nyle intended.  I lined the hole to the outside with aluminum.  On the outside I fabricated a vent with a cedar frame, plexiglass fixed louvers, and backed with screen to keep bugs out.  If the fan quits, replacement will be fairly easy and quick.

After I got it installed, I put 3" of rigid foam around it with a flap for the intake if I want to completely shut it down, like for heat treating.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2022, 10:04:12 AM »
I went ahead and tried reversing the vent fan.  It works perfect in this orientation.  The louvers open right up with no problem.  Actually, the louvers are designed to open with a fan pushing them open per the manufacturer's instruction sheet that was in the box.  Here is a pic with the fan running showing the louvers open.  I rotated the connection box as shown in the pic.  I am not going to mount the connection box inside the wall but I will push the sheet metal into the wall until it hits the box.  



Lucas 7-23 with slabber.  Shopbot CNC 48x96

Offline Larry

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Re: Kiln chamber design for Nyle L53
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2022, 09:01:27 PM »
Looks good.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.


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