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long term storage of dry goods.

Started by doc henderson, September 27, 2022, 04:57:57 PM

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kantuckid

Quote from: beenthere on October 03, 2022, 10:45:25 AM
kykid
It must work for them. People don't enter with theft in mind, or the gangs of kids that run through and wreck or steal things then run out quickly. People don't end up at checkout without at least the store credit card. Likely not like whatever wanders in to do mischief or harm in other store settings.
And the goods are quality.
Must work, because these stores do a ton of business.

But each of us has choices.

Looking up (google) how to keep bugs out of food, there are some containers that work. Plastic is not listed as one of them. Tupperware didn't look good, as well as plastic ziploc bags.
In the grocery business I learned a long time ago that a sealed bag/container doesn't prevent buggy grain products.
 They are IN THERE, already. 
We don't have gangs of kids at my Walmart, lots of regular folks, many middle income and below here. Lots of old farts too :D. 
Shoplifting in box stores: it happens both places and less so in non-bagging stores like Costco and Sam's club. Between bulk pkg and non bagging some shoplifting controls itself. Note that HD & Lowes don't have such stores. 
They all damned well have a loss prevention in place, that I can assure you of! 
Sure it works for them it's capitalism, not a secret plan. 
 Pretty tough to stick 175 pickles in a jar bigger than a whales head in yer pocket? :D  or score some stolen Cheerios in boxes intended for an institutional kitchen, etc., etc.. Choices abound, that part we agree on. Saving enough to pay to shop in a store always further down the road by an hour each way, I'll pass on them. Two people can only eat so much stuff, we are a long, long ways from justifying a Costco or Sam's Club membership dollar wise even if I did live there. 
Wine and diamonds, my two favorite buys :D 
If yer not making corn bread with Martha White Hotrize yer missing the boat. 

Does our USA guvment still stockpile butter, etc??  
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

SwampDonkey

Quote from: kantuckid on October 04, 2022, 09:12:19 AM

Does our USA guvment still stockpile butter, etc??  
I thought it was cheese. And I thought the less fortunate didn't want anything to do with it. Who wants to eat cheese every meal? ;D I only want a little bite of hard chedder 5 year aged, maybe 3 times a week but not a meal's worth. :D It does make awesome home made mac-and-cheese though. Far superior to boxed stuff. ;D

Purity corn meal has been an old staple for eons up here. But substitutes we do have and work fine. Speerville is the brand name and it's stone ground and nothing added to it. Can't think it's too difficult to grind corn. :D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Raider Bill

Quote from: SwampDonkey on October 04, 2022, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: kantuckid on October 04, 2022, 09:12:19 AM

Does our USA guvment still stockpile butter, etc??  
I thought it was cheese. And I thought the less fortunate didn't want anything to do with it. Who wants to eat cheese every meal? ;D I only want a little bite of hard chedder 5 year aged, maybe 3 times a week but not a meal's worth. :D It does make awesome home made mac-and-cheese though. Far superior to boxed stuff. ;D

Purity corn meal has been an old staple for eons up here. But substitutes we do have and work fine. Speerville is the brand name and it's stone ground and nothing added to it. Can't think it's too difficult to grind corn. :D :D
No cheese made a better grilled cheese sammy than gubbermint cheese.
The peanut butter made a heck of folding choke sammy too.
The First 70 years of childhood is always the hardest.

21incher

Try using a heavyweight vacuum bag pulled to 24 or more inches of vacuum like I said. Nothing will live to chew it's  way out. If your house is infected with the critters they can eat their way in but that is a whole different  problem that you should  get an exterminator to professionally solve so you don't get diseases. Some add an oxygen absorber  to the bag before sealing  and some heat treat also at 140 deg for 2 hours also but it's not necessary to you remove all the oxygen. Freezing will not kill most bugs or eggs so don't  bother trying. If you don't  handle items correctly and constantly  keep an eye on what goes in and out you should not try to store anything. We have stored a lot of food and always bought  bulk over the years and never had one single problem  with bugs or critters.  Stick to cans if you're not going to invest time and energy to prepare  and monitor the process. If you have bugs living in your closets and walls get proper help because it's  not healthy  living  with  them.
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

kantuckid

Quote from: Raider Bill on October 04, 2022, 04:06:08 PM
Quote from: SwampDonkey on October 04, 2022, 01:56:22 PM
Quote from: kantuckid on October 04, 2022, 09:12:19 AM

Does our USA guvment still stockpile butter, etc??  
I thought it was cheese. And I thought the less fortunate didn't want anything to do with it. Who wants to eat cheese every meal? ;D I only want a little bite of hard chedder 5 year aged, maybe 3 times a week but not a meal's worth. :D It does make awesome home made mac-and-cheese though. Far superior to boxed stuff. ;D

Purity corn meal has been an old staple for eons up here. But substitutes we do have and work fine. Speerville is the brand name and it's stone ground and nothing added to it. Can't think it's too difficult to grind corn. :D :D
No cheese made a better grilled cheese sammy than gubbermint cheese.
The peanut butter made a heck of folding choke sammy too.
Some years back they tossed that cheese off the back of a county truck here. We were given some chunks but honestly, I like real cheese, not American Processed pretend cheese. Yer right though, it makes an OK mac & cheese-wife uses Velvetta for GK's who live on that stuff. 
For many years my native KS had commodities as the food stamp program, not retail stamps. There was a "store" at the state fairgrounds in Topeka and other cities around where you filled yer cart with government foods same as school kitchens get-or used to get? Inew to guys who worked for the local gas company and were in lots of homes, they told stories of huge stashes for the foods going to waste. Hundreds of lbs of foods in basements piled high by people who'd take it and then not cook it. Lots of that stuff was also stolen from school kitchens. PB made a great deer bait for one e.g.. 
Hot Rize has the convenience of ingredients already in there, not some special grind. When I first moved here to KY, old timers all grew hickory cane corns for grinding. Pretty much a dead idea now except for a few Eule Gibbon types. :D  
Martha White-it is a SE USA staple food. Grind wise, there are coaser grinds that work better for Masa or other Hispanic ground corns-sort of Polenta style for some, mush for others. My fave is JalapeƱo cornbread, peppers, onions and I love the stuff! This summer we began to eat our okra and maters spread onto split cornbread sticks. VG indeeed. 
In KS, my Mom made a more sugary, slightly cakelike cornbread unlike what I eat at home. Bit like Jiffy mix which we sold maybe 5-6 cases a week in KS store I worked in.  
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

kantuckid

Quote from: 21incher on October 04, 2022, 04:10:19 PM
Try using a heavyweight vacuum bag pulled to 24 or more inches of vacuum like I said. Nothing will live to chew it's  way out. If your house is infected with the critters they can eat their way in but that is a whole different  problem that you should  get an exterminator to professionally solve so you don't get diseases. Some add an oxygen absorber  to the bag before sealing  and some heat treat also at 140 deg for 2 hours also but it's not necessary to you remove all the oxygen. Freezing will not kill most bugs or eggs so don't  bother trying. If you don't  handle items correctly and constantly  keep an eye on what goes in and out you should not try to store anything. We have stored a lot of food and always bought  bulk over the years and never had one single problem  with bugs or critters.  Stick to cans if you're not going to invest time and energy to prepare  and monitor the process. If you have bugs living in your closets and walls get proper help because it's  not healthy  living  with  them.
We used pros for bugs in a super market, it did help with bugs attracted to shelving but nothing to do with self contained infestation which is different. I suppose it occurs during growing, harvest, or packaging & processing. 
I worked in supermarkets for 5.5 years and saw people bring us buggy foods the entire time. Real happy housewife's :D
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

doc henderson

I bought corn and peanuts to feed squirrels and put it on the back sun porch.  I think they made it into the house from there.  lots of cleaning but they come back.  got rid of a bunch of stuff.  they will not kill if you eat them, but not everyone like a little moth in there diet.
Timber king 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor powered by a 12 volt tarp motor

SwampDonkey

Here's the local flour mill. My dad sold them wheat for years when old Stew Flyshacker owned it. He was from Washington State and was also a forester. The corn meal is not ground fine enough for making corn bread without cooking it ahead. It's more of a cereal corn. But I'm not someone who eats corn that way. In fact no one in these parts ever did to my knowledge and I knew lots of depression era folks.  :D

I buy their spelt and buckwheat flours to make my own pancakes. A little baking powder added in by me, and an egg and milk. Olive oil on the cast iron griddle. ;D

https://www.speervilleflourmill.ca/natural-foods/
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

taylorsmissbeehaven

Mary read somewhere to wipe the pantry down with 1 part vinegar and 3 parts water. We did so and had great results. Got a load of hard plastic containers from Amazon this week and will be using them now. Brian
Opportunity is missed by most because it shows up wearing bib overalls and looks like work.

beenthere

QuoteWe did so and had great results.

Not doubting, but what are you measuring/observing to get "great results"?  
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

taylorsmissbeehaven

There were no little moths left early in the morning around the light. Not real scientific but was a positive in our minds. After I first discovered the problem we had quite a few of the little buggers buzzing around the kitchen. Seems they were gone the day after the vinegar wipe down .Not sure if they were leftovers or still emerging from the pantry. I was cleaning anyway and like vinegar.
Opportunity is missed by most because it shows up wearing bib overalls and looks like work.

Paul_H

Quote from: doc henderson on September 27, 2022, 04:57:57 PM
OK so I am getting the idea that the supply chain is not getting fixed just because covid is no longer a global pandemic, but an ongoing new normal.  I am hearing from my assistant scout master who is a foreman at a Kroger warehouse, that most trucks are coming in half full.  or not at all and occ. a full truck that is four shipments combined.  



IT'S WORSE THAN THEY ARE TELLING YOU. | Hundreds of Millions will starve. - YouTube
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

kantuckid

He has some valid points for certain. He's far from the only guy who gets around or knows whats happening in the futures market. Farmers that once got their info from a local grain storage place or a radio and /or newspaper report listened to or read over lunch, now have phone apps and pay for puter info that keeps them afloat. Far more farms have had grain storage and drier operations for a long time.  
Huge numbers of people watch all markets for a living, far beyond the scope of that mans travels he mentions.
As droughts continue we may see certain crops now grown in commifornia no longer there. We just might see some land in FL become a food growing area instead of house plants or subdivisions that washed away.  Lots of the housing in FL sits on food growing places that can supplant CA's fertile valleys that need Colorado River water thats not coming. See lake Powell & Lake Mead.
Much available land in the other eastern arable, wetter areas of the USA are not in crop production. I have wondered as we see grains in short supply, just how much the immensely increased pet food area will become less attractive in the marketplace? Touchy area indeed as more of the higher grade foods we have grown flow into pet foods.
Either way, other than logical buying ahead I am not adopting a new hobby of food storage. I have a huge pile of pork rib tips and a loin to BBQ today that cost less than one nigh eating out. Once cooked it re-freezes and stores much longer-all bought on markdown at wallyworld. Let's talk about solutions, nots doomsday stuff.
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

SwampDonkey

Some regions are different than others. Saskatchewan grain is a whole different level than back east here in NB. All the driers that have sprung up here in the last 10 years is for corn. When dad looked into drying wheat 30 years ago at a local facility, it cost more than the grain was going to pay. :D :D The flour that is produced here is small niche stuff. About 400 hundred acres of wheat would be more than enough to feed it's needs. ;D In the stores you'll see huge sacks of Robin Hood or store brand flour and a little small shelf area with small bags of niche stuff with big prices. Small potatoes. :D Locally, there were no Canadian papers or radio about grains. If you heard anything it was from US radio stations. There used to be research papers about grains, never saw anything with market $$ talked about. You'd get some sense of what was happening listening to US radio but this ain't Saskatchewan. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

21incher

Well weather we need it or not we now can go at least 6 months in an emergency. Never thought I would say this but seems food may become unaffordable with a limited selection to many in the future. One never knows these days and what ever happens will most likely change the diet of many. Picked up another 8 (2) pound boxes boxes of my favorite pasta and sealed it up like the rest. Picked up some more freezer burger, sausage, blocks of grater cheese, and have 100 jars of our canned tomatoes and sauce so my favorite meal of pasta with meatballs or sausage and sauce will be on the menu for quite some time good times or bad. Will be starting a grow tent full of lettuce and greens for salads all winter next month as always because it is so good fresh picked.


 

 
Root cellar is full of butternuts, garlic, onions, sweet potatoes, white potatoes, shallots, that will last till April as always so plenty of good eating in there along with beans, rice, soup, and dehydrated treats. Picking up a couple bushels of Fuji apples in 2 weeks when the harvest starts and they store well all winter also.  2 freezers full of meat ( great prices as ranchers have been dumping their livestock recently ) and and garden veggies as a bonus for variety. Back yard full of deer should it be needed. 
 Actually we hate to go out shopping in the winter and do just about the same every year without thinking about it. Will this year be different? I feel it will but it won't affect how we eat or live. Plenty of seeds dried to start next years crop and repeat our boring life.
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

Paul_H

Quote from: kantuckid on October 12, 2022, 09:15:36 AM. Let's talk about solutions, nots doomsday stuff.
If reality bothers you then opt out of the conversation. There have been plenty of solutions offered in this thread and many more will come. My cousin who is the same age as you (1944) and has bad knees from football and a long logging career is still cutting hay,raising cattle and is teaching younger people while working together with them. He doctors his own cattle,dogs and cats and is still learning and teaching.
He understands the world is not a perfect place but chooses to get up off his tail everyday and do something to make it a little better. 

Proverbs 22:3 The wise see dangers before they are engulfed by them whereas fools, through dullness or boldness, march right on.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

newoodguy78

Quote from: kantuckid on October 12, 2022, 09:15:36 AM
He has some valid points for certain. He's far from the only guy who gets around or knows whats happening in the futures market. Farmers that once got their info from a local grain storage place or a radio and /or newspaper report listened to or read over lunch, now have phone apps and pay for puter info that keeps them afloat. Far more farms have had grain storage and drier operations for a long time.  
Huge numbers of people watch all markets for a living, far beyond the scope of that mans travels he mentions.
As droughts continue we may see certain crops now grown in commifornia no longer there. We just might see some land in FL become a food growing area instead of house plants or subdivisions that washed away.  Lots of the housing in FL sits on food growing places that can supplant CA's fertile valleys that need Colorado River water thats not coming. See lake Powell & Lake Mead.
Much available land in the other eastern arable, wetter areas of the USA are not in crop production. I have wondered as we see grains in short supply, just how much the immensely increased pet food area will become less attractive in the marketplace? Touchy area indeed as more of the higher grade foods we have grown flow into pet foods.
Either way, other than logical buying ahead I am not adopting a new hobby of food storage. I have a huge pile of pork rib tips and a loin to BBQ today that cost less than one nigh eating out. Once cooked it re-freezes and stores much longer-all bought on markdown at wallyworld. Let's talk about solutions, nots doomsday stuff.
There may be available crop land in the East. Just because it's there certainly doesn't mean it's worth farming. Others wil know better than me but when it comes to grain and commodity type crops the profit margins if any are very slim even in a good year. Things like small fields and even stony ground that the eastern part of the US is known for take the chance of making anything right out of it fast. 
When harvesting grain the machine needs to be doing what it's designed for not running around town field to field chasing acres. 

21incher

There are thousands of acres of cropland up by me that has been used for over 100 years. It is very  productive if properly fertilized.  Up to now that hasn't been a problem.  From what I have heard the cost of fertilizer has skyrocketed but the crops are basically sold the previous year so up to now yields have been high with prenegotiated costs. Next years crops will see tremendous price increases to keep up with  the increases in fertilizer and GMO patented seeds. We have many  large farms that lease any farmable lands in the area that need a certain number of bushels per acre to survive and that takes tons of fertilizer.  So remember the prices you pay in a store are a year behind inflation and the farmers are now struggling  to find financing with the rising interest rates to finance planting next years crops. Just because  there has always  been plenty  of farming land available doesn't guarantee it will all be planted next spring. 
I remember  when I was young and there were bad crop  years the government would  pull cheese and peanut butter  from surplus storage and distribute  it to schools. In grade school almost  every  lunch included cheese and peanut butter.  Not sure what they have stored up now so I'm not taking  chances. 
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

beenthere

When I was in school, we sometimes had surplus food supplied.. remember potatoes, cheese, and peanut butter. But we took our own lunch in a lunch pail or bucket. No school lunches made for kids. 
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Southside

They are not cheap, but if you really want to preserve food for a long time get a chamber vacuum sealer.  Completely different technology than the kitchen style that sucks the air out of the bag.  

Our beef is all USDA inspected since it's sold in retail stores under our brand and it comes back to us in a chamber vac pouch.  We had some this spring that had been in the freezer for almost four years, burger, steak, and stew meat.  It got pushed to the bottom of a freezer and buried no idea how many times.  You could not tell the difference from that to beef that had been harvested the month before.  I was shocked.  

We bought a Vac Master VP 540 chamber vac for the chicken we process and the results are awesome. The bags are cheaper than typical heat shrink poultry bags and the presentation and seal are far superior.  We can seal three whole chickens at one time in one minute with ours. 

Had a can of Gatorade powder that arrived with the metal top crinkled so to keep the bugs out I tossed it into one of the vac bags and into the machine.  It crushed the can... whoops, guess I need to turn down the vac level if I do that again.    
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Ianab

Quote from: 21incher on October 12, 2022, 11:27:22 PMJust because  there has always  been plenty  of farming land available doesn't guarantee it will all be planted next spring.  I remember  when I was young and there were bad crop  years the government would  pull cheese and peanut butter  from surplus storage and distribute  it to schools. In grade school almost  every  lunch included cheese and peanut butter.


Countries like the US / NZ / Aus / Canada produce excess food and export much of it. I think the ratio here is about 5X, NZ exports 5X more food than we consume. A "bad crop" year shouldn't result in real shortages, but prices may be up (supply and demand), while incomes are down. So the real problems in first world countries are economic. not an actual famine, when there is simply no food available. Govt doesn't want hungry kids, so they subsidise school lunches in case parents are short on cash. Cheese and peanut butter sandwiches are cheap, convenient and kids will actually eat them, so that all makes sense. 

Like I said previously our food reserve is Disaster preparedness. Not the total collapse of modern society. If money gets tight we have supplies, and can switch our shopping to more basic essentials. Having your own veges and meat preserved is of course good economic sense / insurance as well. 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

newoodguy78

Quote from: 21incher on October 12, 2022, 11:27:22 PM
There are thousands of acres of cropland up by me that has been used for over 100 years. It is very  productive if properly fertilized.  Up to now that hasn't been a problem.  From what I have heard the cost of fertilizer has skyrocketed but the crops are basically sold the previous year so up to now yields have been high with prenegotiated costs. Next years crops will see tremendous price increases to keep up with  the increases in fertilizer and GMO patented seeds. We have many  large farms that lease any farmable lands in the area that need a certain number of bushels per acre to survive and that takes tons of fertilizer.  So remember the prices you pay in a store are a year behind inflation and the farmers are now struggling  to find financing with the rising interest rates to finance planting next years crops. Just because  there has always  been plenty  of farming land available doesn't guarantee it will all be planted next spring.
I remember  when I was young and there were bad crop  years the government would  pull cheese and peanut butter  from surplus storage and distribute  it to schools. In grade school almost  every  lunch included cheese and peanut butter.  Not sure what they have stored up now so I'm not taking  chances.
21incher you're spot on with the lag in agricultural goods. Several times lately I've listened to people talking about the cost of food and how they feel it's peaked and will start coming back down shortly. Really gets them upset when I explain they haven't seen anything yet. 
There's at least a year lag minimum between when prices start to rise in the economy and when agricultural goods hit the shelves. The long list of preservatives in most any commercially sold food is a good indication of that. Simply look how long those products last. The prices won't come down until the last one of those items are sold if ever. 
The cost of food production is up and yields on most everything is down across the board. Interesting times to say the least. 
They all call me a doomsayer or mr negativity. When in actuality I'm legitimately trying to educate them. Good to know there's others around that get it. 

kantuckid

Quote from: Paul_H on October 12, 2022, 09:02:05 PM
Quote from: kantuckid on October 12, 2022, 09:15:36 AM. Let's talk about solutions, nots doomsday stuff.
If reality bothers you then opt out of the conversation. There have been plenty of solutions offered in this thread and many more will come. My cousin who is the same age as you (1944) and has bad knees from football and a long logging career is still cutting hay,raising cattle and is teaching younger people while working together with them. He doctors his own cattle,dogs and cats and is still learning and teaching.
He understands the world is not a perfect place but chooses to get up off his tail everyday and do something to make it a little better.

Proverbs 22:3 The wise see dangers before they are engulfed by them whereas fools, through dullness or boldness, march right on.
I do get up and work everyday FWIW. Past week spent an entire day removing garden pole, stakes and tomato stuff and getting the electric fence aside for cover crop. I choose not to lay back pasta or other stuff that we can buy in retail most every visit at increased but also prices I can afford. Meat case are quite full other than some few processed meats that seem to be spotty, like my favorite salami sandwich meat- which I feel is a labor issue for meatpackers for certain.
 I don't need to opt out of a long term storage thread to present my own views that coincide with the TP shortages of the covid period we still seem to be into supply chain wise. I don't intend to offend you but retain my right to buy what we need as we need it. Our grocery trips are a minimum of a 50 mile RT and are often part of either a medical visit or a rare night eating out for us or a pick up a pizza thing. 
I'm not into competing with others as to what ails me. I'm came out of many hard labot jobs with my knees intact, including many years of football and still had great joints. Teaching: after much skilled trades training I spent 27+ years at what were very low pay and don't bitch about that and honestly mostly don't look back that much, as life is about moving on. 
I seem to have been cast as a fool by the proverb you threw out here because we don't stockpile stuff, other than bargains and garden produce we can or freeze. I stand by my lifestyle. 
 I'm hardly a candidate for your theory?  Honestly said, you nicked a nerve with this post. I'm going to opt out based on your suggestion here to keep some peace. Hope your cousin keeps on keeping on.  
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

kantuckid

Quote from: newoodguy78 on October 12, 2022, 10:36:18 PM
Quote from: kantuckid on October 12, 2022, 09:15:36 AM
He has some valid points for certain. He's far from the only guy who gets around or knows whats happening in the futures market. Farmers that once got their info from a local grain storage place or a radio and /or newspaper report listened to or read over lunch, now have phone apps and pay for puter info that keeps them afloat. Far more farms have had grain storage and drier operations for a long time.  
Huge numbers of people watch all markets for a living, far beyond the scope of that mans travels he mentions.
As droughts continue we may see certain crops now grown in commifornia no longer there. We just might see some land in FL become a food growing area instead of house plants or subdivisions that washed away.  Lots of the housing in FL sits on food growing places that can supplant CA's fertile valleys that need Colorado River water thats not coming. See lake Powell & Lake Mead.
Much available land in the other eastern arable, wetter areas of the USA are not in crop production. I have wondered as we see grains in short supply, just how much the immensely increased pet food area will become less attractive in the marketplace? Touchy area indeed as more of the higher grade foods we have grown flow into pet foods.
Either way, other than logical buying ahead I am not adopting a new hobby of food storage. I have a huge pile of pork rib tips and a loin to BBQ today that cost less than one nigh eating out. Once cooked it re-freezes and stores much longer-all bought on markdown at wallyworld. Let's talk about solutions, nots doomsday stuff.
There may be available crop land in the East. Just because it's there certainly doesn't mean it's worth farming. Others wil know better than me but when it comes to grain and commodity type crops the profit margins if any are very slim even in a good year. Things like small fields and even stony ground that the eastern part of the US is known for take the chance of making anything right out of it fast.
When harvesting grain the machine needs to be doing what it's designed for not running around town field to field chasing acres.
I wasn't thinking about NH or much of the rocky fields of New England, when I said eastern tillable lands. I also wasn't thinking about my part of KY where too much forest has become too steep of pasture. Very little tillable land near me until you get towards the bluegrass westward or northward above the forests.  
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

kantuckid

Quote from: beenthere on October 12, 2022, 11:49:26 PM
When I was in school, we sometimes had surplus food supplied.. remember potatoes, cheese, and peanut butter. But we took our own lunch in a lunch pail or bucket. No school lunches made for kids.
There were zero yellow buses or lunchrooms in the entire city of Topeka where I went to school, exception was the sole HS which I attended and ate lunch there maybe 2-3 times in the 3 years available there. I mostly ate raisins & nuts and did my homework during lunch so it was done prior to sports which got me home well after dark daily and worn out.
 The USDA school lunch program is/was huge and includeds many US farm products that supplement a schools ability to provide lunches. It's varied over political stuff but now is more toward what kids will eat. 
 In my county every kid eats for free as part of the removal of a stigma attached to the majority of have nots at the checkout which now isn't there. It's very common here in many counties and some cities. 
Do I like the notion of parents who parent-yes! Most of my generation grew up that way and more than a few are currently raising their grandkids or great grandkids. Our sons raise their kids and actually all my grandkids eat their own homemade lunches-even one who takes hers to teach everyday. 
There's a VAST! difference between the number of kids who eat their only hot meals at school than when I was a kid! 
When I get up from this puter I'll be making my bologna sandwich to tote back to my build site-I've packed my lunch my entire life, no matter where I worked, except the Army. 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

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