Overnight? A couple days? Early on I had some problems from waiting to sticker so I've been stickering the same day or as I take boards off the mill. Looking to change the order of battle, but I don't want to find out the hard way that I waited too long. This juicy pine seems to take on mold quickly if I don't get the sawdust off and sticker quickly but I'd like to maybe wait a day or two if I can get away with it. I could dead stack and cover with a piece of tin and then do all my stickering after a day or two if that can work.
Getting sawdust off fresh pine is a big slow-down, but essential. Need to find a way to make it go faster.
In this weather it is crazy how fast it will mildew. :o
That's what I learned the hard way. Maybe I should quick-sticker and then re-sticker.
It's sorta double work, but sometimes circumstances dictate it. I have stickered lumber on trailers that was hauling the lumber to the lumber shed. ::)
Roger that. Working alone I try to move wood as few times as possible. Stickering kills my back, and I'm only stacking 32" wide, but there seems to be no way to avoid lifting the whole board and bending over to place it gently on the stickers. I thought maybe if I could delay the stickering I might improve overall throughput.
My sawmill is a lonely place, but the duck blind is full of friends. :D
Back in July/early-August, my 1x yellow pine was showing mildew after only one day being left dead-stacked. Doug Fir I've found several days dead-stacked is not a problem.
QuoteMy sawmill is a lonely place, but the duck blind is full of friends. :D
Exactly!
Quote from: Magicman on August 31, 2016, 08:41:14 AM
In this weather it is crazy how fast it will mildew. :o
Yep, sawed some SYP about a month ago. Within two days they were covered in mildew. Of course it got rain on over night and I didn't have it covered.
OP, get yourself a 12" sheetrock knife to scrap off saw dust. Works like a charm.
I'm gonna try the sheetrock knife and see how that works. Amazing how hard it is get all the sawdust off fresh pine.
I learned early on that rain on fresh pine is deadly. I have five or six pieces of 12' tin I keep at the mill now and everything gets covered before nightfall. Even a good dew will cause trouble.
Yeah, a day or two at most. Fans will be invaluable once stickered to keep the boards fresh. In this pic, I have three fans running on poplar and pine.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/IMG_1530.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1472730709)
The other side of the stacks. Red oak on left, poplar on right. No fans on the red oak. I am a stickler for stickering, for stickering on 16" centers on dead level foundations. Furniture makers will not buy bowed boards. Boards bow for different reasons. Sometimes it is unavoiable stress or tension in the log. Sometimes it is because of poor stickering, handling or storage. That is the part that I work hard to eliminate. The fans are a huge factor in eliminating sticker stain and gray stain.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14370/IMG_1552.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1472730826)
...I have seen green logs milled into lumber begin to shows signs of staining within hours of being turned into Lumber. No we stack twice a day, before lunch and before the end of the day. BTW, I only saw for hobby, and profit it I am lucky.
Also the log in question we were working on was a North White Pine, cut in the August heat, there was sap running out the saw dust chute, BIGGEST MESS EVER
Looks like the only way to be sure is sticker and stack the same day. I need mill help!! Stacking by myself is not good. Maybe Kbeitz can whip me up a mill robot to stack lumber. 8)
- Nice shed WDH. That's what I need.
- Fishfighter - tried the mud knife today. 10" was the longest I had on hand. Works GREAT! I can't believe how well it works. Handy for other things too - removing a little wane, scraping strings off board edges. Best tip ever. 8). You mentioned it last year, but I never picked up what you were puttin' down.
WDH are the concrete piers poured on top of the ground?
They look like it in the pic.
And the net hanging, Is that to catch lumber fiying around? :D :D ;)
I betcha the "net" is shade cloth.
Quote from: btulloh on September 01, 2016, 05:46:24 PM
Looks like the only way to be sure is sticker and stack the same day. I need mill help!! Stacking by myself is not good. Maybe Kbeitz can whip me up a mill robot to stack lumber. 8)
- Nice shed WDH. That's what I need.
- Fishfighter - tried the mud knife today. 10" was the longest I had on hand. Works GREAT! I can't believe how well it works. Handy for other things too - removing a little wane, scraping strings off board edges. Best tip ever. 8). You mentioned it last year, but I never picked up what you were puttin' down.
Someone allready beat me to it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rzgaxoZ3D8
I'm a big fan of fans, they will pay for themselves very quickly. I just bought two more of the 42 inchers, they go on sale at the end of summer at the big box stores. I've been recently experimenting making a tunnel, with a stack of wood on either side of the fans, and metal roofing over the top, bridging from stack to stack over the fans forcing the air through the stacks like a kiln baffle. Seems to work well, so far.
Also, attach a sticker to the handle of the putty knife and use it as a long handle. You'll be able to scrape the board very fast with having to bend over.
Quote from: btulloh on August 31, 2016, 10:10:08 AM
Roger that. Working alone I try to move wood as few times as possible. Stickering kills my back, and I'm only stacking 32" wide, but there seems to be no way to avoid lifting the whole board and bending over to place it gently on the stickers. I thought maybe if I could delay the stickering I might improve overall throughput.
My sawmill is a lonely place, but the duck blind is full of friends. :D
You only have to lift the first board all the way, and don't bother getting it perfect either, just get it close. Set the first board on the stickers and only let it go down (so as to not disturb the orientation of the stickers). Then set one end of the next board on that board, slide it down, and then twist it over to move it over to the far side (or right next to the board you just placed). At this point recheck your stickers to make sure they're still in line, which they should be. Then you can slide the rest on and flip em onto the stickers, and one you have sufficient hold down weight on the pile (generally a minimum of 3 boards), organize the boards to your liking ( I typically like to align the ends and slide the outside boards flush). There ya go, alot less work than setting each board. No sense in hurting your back. If you have a loader or forklift, put the pile of lumber to be stacked next to it so you just slide it all right on. Leave room in between the pile and the end of the boards on the loader, works more better thata way.
Thanks for that detail 4x4. I'm going to put that into play today. I'd been playing with the orientation of the forks to the pallets, but I hadn't come up with what you're describing. I think you just saved me a year of experimenting. Maybe I should have already figured it out, but now I don't have to.
Your method will help me whether I'm stacking right off the mill, or stacking on the forks and then stickering. I just have to move things around a little bit. Can't wait to get to the mill to try it. I'll be adding that handle extension to the mud knife as well.
This sure turned into a helpful thread. Thanks for all the input.
Quote from: btulloh on September 01, 2016, 05:46:24 PM
Looks like the only way to be sure is sticker and stack the same day. I need mill help!! Stacking by myself is not good. Maybe Kbeitz can whip me up a mill robot to stack lumber. 8)
- Nice shed WDH. That's what I need.
- Fishfighter - tried the mud knife today. 10" was the longest I had on hand. Works GREAT! I can't believe how well it works. Handy for other things too - removing a little wane, scraping strings off board edges. Best tip ever. 8). You mentioned it last year, but I never picked up what you were puttin' down.
Glad it helped. Sawing fresh fell logs, oak or SYP, saw dust is a pain in the backside for our small mills. ;D
Quote from: Peter Drouin on September 01, 2016, 05:58:05 PM
WDH are the concrete piers poured on top of the ground?
They look like it in the pic.
And the net hanging, Is that to catch lumber fiying around? :D :D ;)
Yes Sir. Formed with 1" x 4" boards and re-bar . 4" thick slabs. Working great. I don't have any lumber fiying around :D
I scrape/sticker right off the mill right onto pallets. If applying boron, spray and flip individual boards on the stack.
I used some of your suggestions today 4x4 and had good results. Thanks for that detail. I had tried the forks with lumber in a bunch of different orientations to the pallet, but never end to end. End to end is the ticket. My back feels better tonight.
Seems like I should have figured that out, but that's why the FF is so great.
Hey glad I had something I could offer! Have gotten many good ideas from here, any time I can add something I try to!
Quote from: WDH on September 02, 2016, 07:56:05 AM
Quote from: Peter Drouin on September 01, 2016, 05:58:05 PM
WDH are the concrete piers poured on top of the ground?
They look like it in the pic.
And the net hanging, Is that to catch lumber fiying around? :D :D ;)
Yes Sir. Formed with 1" x 4" boards and re-bar . 4" thick slabs. Working great. I don't have any lumber fiying around :D
Must be nice not having to worry about frost heaves! 8) 8) :( :o ;D
Yep, no frost heaves here.
No doubt fans are required!!! I have several stacks outside becoming fuzz covered! No way to fan these, its just been so humid that fresh sawn pine has no chance without air flow.
My stacks are a long way from electricity. I've been ok without fans so far, but it always seems right on the edge of trouble. I use some dark green roofing metal to cover stacks and maybe it generates a little convection. Getting as much sawdust off the lumber helps. Trouble is, there's no way to really get all the sawdust off the juicy pine.
Because I can only saw a fairly small amount in a single day, I could make better stacks if I accumulated 2 or 3 days sawing before I made my stacks. That's the main reason I would like to dead stack off the mill. It seems too risky though. Re-stickering doesn't appeal to me, so I just have to deal with it as best I can.
Quote from: Sixacresand on September 02, 2016, 10:39:35 AM
I scrape/sticker right off the mill right onto pallets. If applying boron, spray and flip individual boards on the stack.
Put a trough in for the borate. You'll find its quicker to dunk the board in the solution then stack then it is to spray, flip, spray again. You get total coverage every time. And it'll wash the sawdust off as well. Just sayin'
Are you using the same mix rate in the dip tank as for spraying?
Quote from: btulloh on September 03, 2016, 08:00:06 AM
Are you using the same mix rate in the dip tank as for spraying?
My mix rate is 3 bags borax : 2 bags boric acid : 500 liters of water.
Bags are standard 20 kg / 40 lb bags and 500 liters is about 130 US gallons - that'll give a (approximate) 15% solution.
Split 40 gal drums welded together makes for a good cheap trough to get you going, but you really want it on a stand to save bending over. A swimming pool cleaning scoop thingy is good for removing sawdust from the trough as required.
I'm about to toss in $0.02 worth of general advice on how to run a sawmill profitably.
Don't double handle anything more then you have to.
Every time you pick up a board it's costing you time, and time is money. If it's got to get hit with borax and stipped out then don't dead stack it, because that means you handle the board off the mill into a dead stack, then you handle it off the dead stack, then you handle it to dedust, then you handle it to spray, then you handle it again to spray the other side, then you handle it to strip it out. So you've touched that board 6 times before its left the green mill, and more if it requires resawing for grade and/or docking.
Conversely, it could go mill, trough, pack. Sometimes what seems like the fastest workflow ain't, is what I'm saying. I work with at least one guy behind me to dock/dip/ stack most the time which is more efficient. If I was mostly working alone I'd put in a bigger trough to handle a decent logs worth of output. Saw log, boards to trough, stack, saw next log... or something like that.
And build yourself a racking frame, the topics been discussed here:
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,86803.0.html
Saves a lot of time wasted arguing with stickers. Again it's about working efficiently, and not having to double handle stuff. Time gained on the back end of the mill means more time to saw. There's an old saying here about production mills goes "You can't eat faster then you can *hit", and regardless of mill size it's true. Too often people buy a bigger, faster mill and get no more production because they disregard the unglamorous stuff on the backend, conversely if you get it right you'll increase production and quality ( lack of stain etc) for far less cost.
Mostly in this business it's not the guy who sweats the most or spends the mostwho wins, it's the guy with the highest output per gallon of sweat and dollar invested IMHO