personal carry pistol?

4x4American · December 07, 2015, 06:58:21 AM

Good points, I was thinking that she might want to start on something like an SP-101 to learn how to shoot before she actually starts carrying. I wouldn't recommend someone carrying without really knowing how to shoot/handle the gun. And also it's a good idea to train to protect your gun if in a fight, because if someone takes your gun while duking it out that's bad news bears.

I would love to own on of those bullpups but I'm sure they're illegal here in the people's republic of NYS :(

Outer Rondacker · December 07, 2015, 08:58:18 AM

I used to carry an sp101 in 357. Still do every now and then. Can be a bit heavy. I mostly carry a 10mm glock 29 now since I got a good deal on it and I am hard on my CC pistols. If you work like most of the guys on the forum do you will carry a scratched banged up still get the job done hand gun.

I switched to 10mm from 9,38,45 as my woods carry gun after I had a bear wonder up on me while cutting some large pines. I could of spat on her/him it was so close. To be honest the saw was still running and I would of used that since faster then a draw. Luck had it we both decided to live and went our ways. Not that it maters but I also carry hard cast lead TC bullets.

LaneC · December 07, 2015, 10:25:32 AM

If I were going to get a pistol for her to just practice with, I personally would get a .22. There is no recoil and she could get used to hitting a target and not have too much noise. It does not take much for anyone who is starting out, to dislike guns because they are too loud and kick too much. I have noticed this especially with my wife and daughter. I don't know how .22 ammo is where you are, but usually around here if you buy a gun, they will also sell you a box of .22 ammo. That is about the only way you find it around here. It has been that way around here since Sandy Hook. Good luck on the decision.

beenthere · December 07, 2015, 10:57:05 AM

X2

I bought some good .22 ammo from Sportsman's Guide and had it delivered. Got tired of checking the local stores for when they would not be "sold out".
Was told by Savage Arms that all their .22 gun testing was done with Federal Premium Gold Medal Match for consistency. That being said, when I rec'd the .22 rifle back after their techs put it through it's final testing, the 10 casings returned with it were stamped with a C, which I took to be CCI ammo. Regardless, the rifle works smoother/better now for whatever they did to it.
Ammo link

Woodhauler · December 10, 2015, 05:32:34 PM

I picked up a smith&wesson mp shield with laser site for myself today, 40 caliber. Seems nice to me!

LaneC · December 10, 2015, 08:28:18 PM

If you don't mind, let us know what you decide on getting. Maybe there are some goods points about a certain caliber that we have not thought of and it my make a good point to help others decide. My daughter will hopefully be getting one within a year so she will need to decide also.

goose63 · December 10, 2015, 08:41:27 PM

I have a Heritage 32 H&R Magnum 6 shooter not to much noise and no big kick it's a lot fun to shoot

SLawyer Dave · December 11, 2015, 12:00:11 AM

Some of this has been mentioned. I decided to get a CWP a number of years ago. Given that I work with a lot of law enforcement, I went to them for their suggestions. Here are some of the points they made.

1) Carrying a weapon is horribly caustic to the weapon. Grime, dirt, sweat, rain, etc. will quickly degrade its performance. So you should only consider carrying an automatic if you are going to be "religious" about cleaning it weekly. If you are that consistent with cleaning, then an auto is your best choice as it will generally have more rounds in the clip.

2) If auto is your choice, then most of the officers I talked to recommended .40 caliber, as it was the best balance between the knockdown power of the .45 and the number of rounds you can carry in a 9 mm. There were many who preferred the .45 caliber. None of the officers I talked to like the 9mm. It has the reputation among law enforcement of not knocking down targets, who tend to continue to return fire.

3) If you are like me, and you are not into cleaning your gun weekly as a "fun" exercise, then almost universally all of the officers I talked to recommended a revolver. Their point was that if you need to pull that gun and fire it, then it HAD to work. If you find yourself in a situation where you need to protect yourself or others with deadly force, the only thing worse than being unarmed, is to pull out a gun that doesn't work.

4) Once you decide on a revolver, again almost universally, the officers recommended the largest caliber you are comfortable with carrying and shooting should be chosen, (up to a .357 which was the overwhelming recommendation). As has been mentioned above, the officers talked about the ability to use both .38 caliber ammo as well as the .357. One of the downsides they mentioned to using .357 ammo is the tendency for the bullets to go "through" your target and endanger others. So they recommended that if you choose to to carry with .357 ammo, make sure you spend the money to buy the best hollow point, anti-personnel ammo you can.

I owned several single action Ruger revolvers, (including my personal favorite .357 with a 6" barrel), but had not shot a lot of other revolvers. So I took the officers' advice and started hitting a number of gun ranges where I could rent different guns. After trying many different manufacturers, and options, I went with the Ruger SP-101, stainless steel with a 2" barrel. While it is only a 5 shot revolver, it was hands down the most comfortable to carry due to its slimmer design and lighter weight. For me, it just naturally fit my hand and was very easy for me to find my aiming point. I've never regretted choosing it, and thankfully, never had to use it other than for pleasure shooting and finishing off a few wounded animals, (and a couple of large halibut that we didn't want flopping in the boat). =)

Woodhauler · December 11, 2015, 12:05:27 AM

Quote from: LaneC on December 10, 2015, 08:28:18 PM
If you don't mind, let us know what you decide on getting. Maybe there are some goods points about a certain caliber that we have not thought of and it my make a good point to help others decide. My daughter will hopefully be getting one within a year so she will need to decide also.

Got her ruger LC9s muddy girl. Got myself a Smith & Wesson MP Sheild with laser in the 40.

Chuck White · December 11, 2015, 08:19:35 AM

My only suggestion(s) would be if you are going to carry "often", go with stainless with the brushed finish (better corrosion resistance), and then stay with a caliber you're comfortable with!

Magicman · December 11, 2015, 08:31:57 AM

No holster is need for this Charter Arms .38spl.

The grip does the job.

It catches on your waistband and keeps it handy.

gspren · December 12, 2015, 06:19:53 PM

I have a Charter Arms Bull Dog in 44 special.

4x4American · December 12, 2015, 09:22:30 PM

That's pretty neat!

dgdrls · December 12, 2015, 09:51:38 PM

Carrying a pistol is a huge responsibility and not a decision to be rushed into.
As others have said make certain she is comfortable shooting with smaller calibres first.

Depending on how sensitive she is to firing various calibres and is committed
to carrying I would look to a Baretta Tomcat in 32 ACP or a bit smaller the Bobcat in 25 cal.

The other option could be a Bond Arms Derringer which is what I currently have. Its my first pistol, over-built, easy to operate but not as carry friendly as the Baretta's

Dan

Tim L · December 12, 2015, 10:30:43 PM

The Glock 43 9mm compact is very nice

square1 · December 13, 2015, 06:23:42 AM

Quote3) If you are like me, and you are not into cleaning your gun weekly as a "fun" exercise, then almost universally all of the officers I talked to recommended a revolver.

Thank you for posting this! I have been searching a lot on this topic and this is the first time I've been made aware of this very valid (IMO) statement.

edkemper · December 13, 2015, 05:15:03 PM

Quote from: dgdrls on December 12, 2015, 09:51:38 PM
I would look to a Baretta Tomcat in 32 ACP or a bit smaller the Bobcat in 25 cal.

I think a .25 is a mistake. Unless you're just trying to fiss off the person you use it on.

A .22 might be a better choice than the .25 IMO. Perhaps the best choice would be a .22 mag. Far more deadly than a .25. When I need small, I carry my .22 mag derringer with short barreled personal protection rounds. On and around my ranch, I carry the KelTec PMR30. A full size (extremely light) double action .22 mag that has 31 rounds ready and able to do whatever you need it to do and it doesn't have much kick. If it wasn't a worthy round, LEO wouldn't fear the .22 mag. They do penetrate some vests.

Chuck White · December 13, 2015, 05:32:45 PM

Just watched a video of the KelTec PMR30.

That's quite a pistol, I'd probably have one if they were allowed in NYS! :

hopm · December 13, 2015, 06:41:31 PM

Been waiting to see how long it took for the Kel Tec to show up in this post. I rarely carry but a couple of times this week I had a pack of coyotes come in on me while hunting at night. i generally carry a bolt action 22. They got close enough I was wondering where my 1 shot should be. Soo....next time out I stuck the little Kel Tec in my front pocket and never knew it was there.

Magicman · December 13, 2015, 07:51:45 PM

I am familiar with the Kel-Tec name but not with that little jewel.

scsmith42 · December 14, 2015, 09:26:05 PM

Quote from: SLawyer Dave on December 11, 2015, 12:00:11 AM

1) Carrying a weapon is horribly caustic to the weapon. Grime, dirt, sweat, rain, etc. will quickly degrade its performance. So you should only consider carrying an automatic if you are going to be "religious" about cleaning it weekly. If you are that consistent with cleaning, then an auto is your best choice as it will generally have more rounds in the clip.

Dave, very good points all but my experience re cleaning is a bit different. I used to be religious about cleaning my pistol after every shoot (and I shoot multiple times monthly), but after querying a number of knowledgeable concealed carry folks in my state, those who carry current generation polymer auto's only clean them a few times a year - the reliability has improved that much.

I carry my PPQ M2 daily in an IWB holster. Living on a farm it gets exposed to a lot of grit and grime. I shoot it in comps once or twice a month with no FTF's, and only clean it every few months. Sometimes I'll run a patch through the barrel before shooting, but usually don't take the time to dismantle it and clean it thoroughly.

Having said all of that, without question a regular cleaning is best.

Re 9mm versus .40 and .45, clearly the balistics are better on the .40's and .45's. However, modern 9mm defensive ammo has been improved markedly in the past ten years or so, to the point where it is much more effective than it was "back when". Here is an interesting article by Larry Vickers about this topic:

http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=7b1a9382c490b04b227c7c2b9&id=44b9b11231&e=852473e203

And here is a really informative article about why the FBI recently changed to 9mm:

http://p2t2solutions.com/fbi-finally-decides-on-standard-service-rounds-for-its-use/

One of the greatest benefits to 9mm versus the other calibers is the greater magazine capacity. I have found that I shoot more accurately if I'm not worrying about running out of ammo.

4x4American · December 14, 2015, 10:15:06 PM

Right on I carry my M+P 45 compact very frequently, and it does get dirty, but I sure as heck don't clean it once a week! Have you ever watched any of the torture tests people put them through on youtube? Sure nuff daily carry isn't gonna phase it! I am confident that it will go boom when I pull the trigger if the need arises.

SLawyer Dave · December 14, 2015, 11:51:40 PM

That was an interesting article. I don't consider myself a ballistics expert, but from multiple law enforcement officers, over more than 18 years, (even through the last week when I again talked to several officers to talk about this very subject), I have repeatedly been told about an FBI shootout in Florida that they base their concerns about. Here is the article from Wikipedia about this shooting:

"The 1986 FBI Miami shootout was a gun battle that occurred on April 11, 1986 in an unincorporated region of Dade County in South Florida (renamed Miami-Dade on November 13, 1997) between eight FBI agents and two serial bank robbers. During the firefight, FBI Special Agents Jerry L. Dove and Benjamin P. Grogan were killed, while five other agents were wounded. The two robbery suspects, William Russell Matix and Michael Lee Platt, were also killed.

The incident is infamous in FBI history and is well-studied in law enforcement circles. Despite outnumbering the suspects 4 to 1, the agents found themselves pinned down by suppressive rifle fire and unable to respond effectively. Although both Matix and Platt were hit multiple times during the shootout, Platt fought on and continued to injure and kill agents. This incident led to the introduction of more powerful handguns in the FBI and many police departments around the United States."

So those of you that have better ballistics knowledge than me, please pipe in. I have consulted and worked on some contracts concerning governmental contracting and supply. Price is overwhelmingly the issue in my experience. So I am somewhat skeptical that the FBI is making this change primarily due to "officer safety", but rather for cost savings.

Maybe I am wrong, but given the different potential for powder capacity, and bullet shape/mass/ingredients, I find it rather impossible to believe that 9mm ammo (alone), has been the only round that has gained the potential for such increased ballistics over the last 30 years. Whatever you do to 9mm, you should be able to do to .40 and .45. Potential Mass of bullet vs. size of powder charge, should still give both the .40 and .45 knockdown and penetration advantages over the 9mm. What the article seems to say is, that the 9mm is "close enough" ballistically, and with more bullets in a clip, the FBI thinks it is a fair trade off, (especially because it will be substantially cheaper). I hope they are right, but I can tell you that at least the small sample of rural law enforcement I deal with, totally disagree with the article's conclusions.

Now again, back to the 1986 shootout, the issue wasn't that the agents couldn't hit the targets, they did so multiple times. The targets were coming out of a door, the agents already had their weapons unholstered and at the ready. When they confronted the targets, the targets started pulling out their weapons. The FBI officers all had the first round fired, and multiple hits were scored against the targets, BEFORE the targets returned fire. The autopsies of the targets showed that they were both "walking dead" after the first round of hits. They both suffered terminal wounds that would kill them within a matter of seconds. However, the 9mm round did not have enough power to "knock them down" and to incapacitate them immediately. That is why the two targets were still able to continue firing wounding and killing officers while they continued to take more hits. That is/was what made this so traumatic for law enforcement.

That is why the FBI switched to the .40 thereafter. They concluded that the 9mm was not the optimal round, even with higher capacities, to immediately incapacitate an active shooter. I have no dispute that a 9mm round is probably almost as deadly as a .40 or .45. However, if I have to pull my gun to try and shoot you, because you are threatening my life or that of others with deadly force; then I want that bullet to immediately incapacitate you, knock you down, and make it that much harder for you to continue attacking. Whether the assailant dies 1.5 seconds earlier or later is not my main concern.....it is to cease their attack as quickly as possible.

Peter Drouin · December 15, 2015, 06:33:21 AM

I like my .45
Don't need a lot of bullets to get the job done.
Unless you can't hit what your aiming at :D

4x4American · December 15, 2015, 07:21:02 AM

Doesn't matter here in the people's republic of nys, we can only carry 7 rounds in our mags legally, which makes me feel better about my m+p 45c because it only holds 7 rnds in the mag (well 8 but you have a heck of of time closing the mag if you have 8 in there so i keep 7 in mag and 1 in chamber.