Timber Theft

[Robert953]

Can the diameter at breast height be calculated when all that is left in the woods is a 4-5 inch high stump?
I found a calculation for taper on a forestry web site, and the three most used log rules, but I need to know breast height in able to calculate volume in board feet.
I had 25 mature trees removed by an unethical logger from my woods. Regardless of his actions (unethical) I want to be fair and honest in my actions and calculations when I seek restitution. I don't want more than what should be an honest and fair compensation for what was taken. Thanks, Robert953

[stonebroke]

I would get a forester to do it. If you go to court his word will have more sway than yours.

Stonebroke

[John Mc]

Anything you do is going to be an estimate. Keep in mind that if he was stealing anyway, he was most likely stealing your best trees. Why would he mess around with the risks involved with timber theft and take only low-grade trees? If he grabbed a veneer-grade tree, that's a lot of value... unfortunately there's probably no telling now.

Can you find similar sized trees of the same species still standing to compare with? Still inexact, but at least gives you something to support your arguments.

I second the recommendation to have a forester make an estimate. Even if he/she is just guessing, a forester's guess will count for more than a landowner's (plus may be seen as less biased).

John Mc

[Texas Ranger]

Good advice, all.  Get a forester, he will compare the stumps to trees left to find form  class, taper, and volume.  His word will be stronger than yours in court, and if you get a settlement, they pay for him as well.

[Robert953]

Thank's to you all, I will check in to obtaining a forester for the estimates, I originally wanted to have this logging done to help my granddaughters financially. They both are new moms going through some difficult times with their husbands, (economy) and great grandpa wanted to try to help.

[Ron Scott]

Yes there are tables developed for determining diameter at breast height (dbh) and stump diameter relationships for softwoods, hardwoods, and aspen. We us Technical Note #507 from the Lake States Forest Experiment Station, USDA-Forest Service here.

Best advice though is as stated above is to have a professional certified forester do the determination for you. Also your damages may be more than you think.

[John Mc]

Also your damages may be more than you think.

I know here in Vermont, if the boundaries are properly marked (or if it's obvious) and someone crosses over and steals timber, there are penalties well beyond the value of the timber. I can't remember with any certainty, but I think it's triple. If it's an "honest mistake" (property line unclear, and someone accidentally went a bit too far, for example), I believe it's just the timber value you get back.

If this was intentional, I would not let the guy off lightly. If all you get back is the timber value, there is no incentive for him not to steal again... worst case for him, he pays you what the timber was worth. Best case, he doesn't get caught, and he pockets the whole amount.

Don't forget to include any damage he may have done to the residual stand. If he's banged up some otherwise valuable trees still standing, he should pay for the value lost there as well.

John

[VT_Forestry]

Here in Virginia, if I remember correctly, you have 2 options...it's either a timber trespass or a timber theft.  Theft is very hard to prove because the logger can just claim "oh well I didn't have clear instructions from the landowner where I was supposed to be cutting, I thought I was still on their property"  I think the damages, if you're able to recover them, are triple here as well.  Good luck with everything, it's a tough spot to be in and hopefully a certified forester will help you regain your losses.

[stonebroke]

In NY it is triple damages and the adjoining landowner is the one ultimately responsible ,I think.

Stonebroke

[cheyenne]

Why are you trying to be nice. Have his keester arressted and put in jail. You'll never get what your owed so make his life like your trees. Dead with Buba.....Cheyenne

[SwampDonkey]

You can determine diameter at breast height as Ron and others suggested. Also, some companies or DNR's have tree length tables to find volumes as well. Myself, I like to measure trees in adjoining stands at the stump and breast height to find the relationship of that site. I find the correlation is  95% confidence or better. Here is one model I found from a site I did a stump cruise on for hardwood and aspen. This may not be exact, as I lost my original data. Diameters in cm's.




DBH = 0.94DSH - 2.43

R² = 0.99